The reliability of Christian and Muslim texts compared

Joined
Mar 15, 2017
Messages
3,382
Likes
5,571
The laws don't apply to God, it doesn't mean that they don't apply to everything that he has created. God created time, he doesn't age yet each and everything he has created is bounded by time. God created death, He will not ever die, yet everything else does. God created oxygen, he doesn't need it yet most of his creation will die without it.

Its really sad when we can explain to you why Jesus, who was raised to heaven at the age of 33, will return and still be 33 and then resume aging, through science while having to literally shut our brains in order to believe your "Versions".
 





Joined
Mar 15, 2017
Messages
8,152
Likes
12,057
Dr. Nathaniel Jeanson did a study on the origin of human mitochondrial DNA, his data seem to support young earth creation model tracing it back to the 3 wives of Noah's sons.

Specifically, these results suggested that the overlap between my earlier predictions (Jeanson 2015b) and the average pairwise mtDNA difference in African groups was plausible.3 However, to explore whether these generation time data could explain the whole scope of mtDNA diversity, I realigned mtDNA sequences from even more individuals from a variety of ethnic groups to identify the maximum pairwise DNA difference. The resultant tree (Fig. 1; see also Supplemental Fig. 1 to zoom in on individuals within the tree) depicted results consistent with previous studies—the longest branch lengths belonged to African individuals.
However, the highest divergence (117 nucleotides) resulted from a comparison, not between two Africans, but between an African San individual and an Asian Taiwanese Aborigine (Table 3; see also Supplemental Table 3). From a biblical perspective, Africans and Asians probably split after the Flood, likely due to the events at the Tower of Babel. Going back to the time of the Flood, modern ethnic groups would have all traced their maternal ancestry back to the three wives of Noah’s sons (Jeanson 2015a). Consistent with this historical record, three major nodes were visible in human mtDNA trees (Fig. 1).4

https://answersingenesis.org/geneti...n-time-data-both-suggest-unified-young-earth/
Very interesting! Thank you @Axl888
 





Joined
Mar 15, 2017
Messages
3,382
Likes
5,571
I am sure you understand the concept of variables. Here the variable would be whether created spirit beings were included in the chronology of the creations of heaven and earth or separate (being non-physical immortal beings). As the Bible is silent on where they fit chronologically, over-analysis of this question would be akin to debating whether a recent newsworthy dress was gold and white or blue and black...

View attachment 25602

https://www.nationalgeographic.com....ite-dress-why-we-see-colours-differently.aspx
Thats an optical illusion, are you saying creation is an optical illusion? Because fact is that the dress was black and blue, now i see it as golden and white but if i were to continue believing what i see to be the truth and shut off the fact, i'd be a narcissistic idiot.

If you are saying that the creation of man during the creation week could be spirit, or souls since according to what you said before, spirits are different BUT genesis very clearly says that God put them into Eden and told them to eat everything except that fruit. Surely spirits can't eat things so they have to have physical bodies, no?
 





Joined
Mar 15, 2017
Messages
8,152
Likes
12,057
The laws don't apply to God, it doesn't mean that they don't apply to everything that he has created. God created time, he doesn't age yet each and everything he has created is bounded by time. God created death, He will not ever die, yet everything else does. God created oxygen, he doesn't need it yet most of his creation will die without it.

Its really sad when we can explain to you why Jesus, who was raised to heaven at the age of 33, will return and still be 33 and then resume aging, through science while having to literally shut our brains in order to believe your "Versions".
When Jesus returns it will be in an ageless glorified body. All we know this side of the “restoration of all things” is death, decay and entropy. The Bible does not indicate that Jesus will be some weary, Gandalf like ruler at the end of His 1000 year reign on the earth!!!

F69032B7-4018-4551-A5DB-7595B9B20B26.jpeg
 





Joined
Mar 15, 2017
Messages
3,382
Likes
5,571
Dr. Nathaniel Jeanson did a study on the origin of human mitochondrial DNA, his data seem to support young earth creation model tracing it back to the 3 wives of Noah's sons.

Specifically, these results suggested that the overlap between my earlier predictions (Jeanson 2015b) and the average pairwise mtDNA difference in African groups was plausible.3 However, to explore whether these generation time data could explain the whole scope of mtDNA diversity, I realigned mtDNA sequences from even more individuals from a variety of ethnic groups to identify the maximum pairwise DNA difference. The resultant tree (Fig. 1; see also Supplemental Fig. 1 to zoom in on individuals within the tree) depicted results consistent with previous studies—the longest branch lengths belonged to African individuals.
However, the highest divergence (117 nucleotides) resulted from a comparison, not between two Africans, but between an African San individual and an Asian Taiwanese Aborigine (Table 3; see also Supplemental Table 3). From a biblical perspective, Africans and Asians probably split after the Flood, likely due to the events at the Tower of Babel. Going back to the time of the Flood, modern ethnic groups would have all traced their maternal ancestry back to the three wives of Noah’s sons (Jeanson 2015a). Consistent with this historical record, three major nodes were visible in human mtDNA trees (Fig. 1).4

https://answersingenesis.org/geneti...n-time-data-both-suggest-unified-young-earth/
Me a couple of posts ago: "If an event like a worldwide Noah flood (we don't believe it to be worldwide btw) did occur, then the said woman could be someone after that event."

You post something that proves my point which i posted to disprove yours
-"it supports young earth creation model"

Are you telling me that Noah lived 6000 years ago? Because i'm pretty sure Adam and Eve came wayyy before Noah and thus the earth was created even before that. Is this another case of your own sources betraying you lol

@Infinityloop look at this^
 





Joined
Mar 15, 2017
Messages
8,152
Likes
12,057
Thats an optical illusion, are you saying creation is an optical illusion? Because fact is that the dress was black and blue, now i see it as golden and white but if i were to continue believing what i see to be the truth and shut off the fact, i'd be a narcissistic idiot.

If you are saying that the creation of man during the creation week could be spirit, or souls since according to what you said before, spirits are different BUT genesis very clearly says that God put them into Eden and told them to eat everything except that fruit. Surely spirits can't eat things so they have to have physical bodies, no?
I think you have man and angels a bit mixed up here. Man had spirit, soul and body in the beginning and existed in physical form.

Angelic beings primary dwelling was in the spirit realm, of which the “heavens and the earth” may simply be a subset, and might exist before and independent of both.
 





Joined
Mar 15, 2017
Messages
3,382
Likes
5,571
When Jesus returns it will be in an ageless glorified body. All we know this side of the “restoration of all things” is death, decay and entropy. The Bible does not indicate that Jesus will be some weary, Gandalf like ruler at the and of His 1000 year reign on the earth!!!

View attachment 25603
Yeah you believe that but we can actually prove why a 33 yo can go to heaven, live there for 2000 years and still return back 33 years old. But can you prove how he would have an "ageless glorified body"?

Its easy to throw around the word "miracle" but logic requires reasoning.
 





Joined
Mar 15, 2017
Messages
3,382
Likes
5,571
I think you have man and angels a bit mixed up here. Man had spirit, soul and body in the beginning and existed in physical form.

Angelic beings primary dwelling was in the spirit realm, of which the “heavens and the earth” may simply be a subset, and might exist before and independent of both.
Is that your speculation or actually in the Bible?
 





Joined
Mar 15, 2017
Messages
8,152
Likes
12,057
Is that your speculation or actually in the Bible?
Romans 8

From Suffering to Glory

18 For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. 19 For the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God. 20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it in hope; 21 because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. 22 For we know that the whole creation groans and labors with birth pangs together until now. 23 Not only that, but we also who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, eagerly waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body. 24 For we were saved in this hope, but hope that is seen is not hope; for why does one still hope for what he sees? 25 But if we hope for what we do not see, we eagerly wait for it with perseverance.
 





Joined
Mar 15, 2017
Messages
8,152
Likes
12,057
Is that your speculation or actually in the Bible?
And

1 Corinthians 15

A Glorious Body

35 But someone will say, “How are the dead raised up? And with what body do they come?” 36 Foolish one, what you sow is not made alive unless it dies. 37 And what you sow, you do not sow that body that shall be, but mere grain—perhaps wheat or some other grain. 38 But God gives it a body as He pleases, and to each seed its own body.

39 All flesh is not the same flesh, but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of animals, another of fish, and another of birds.

40 There are also celestial bodies and terrestrial bodies; but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another. 41 There is one glory of the sun, another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for one star differs from another star in glory.

42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. The body is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruption. 43 It is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness, it is raised in power. 44 It is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. 45 And so it is written, “The first man Adam became a living being.” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.

46 However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural, and afterward the spiritual. 47 The first man was of the earth, made of dust; the second Man is the Lord from heaven. 48 As was the man of dust, so also are those who are made of dust; and as is the heavenly Man, so also are those who are heavenly. 49 And as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly Man.
 





Joined
Mar 15, 2017
Messages
3,382
Likes
5,571
And

1 Corinthians 15

A Glorious Body

35 But someone will say, “How are the dead raised up? And with what body do they come?” 36 Foolish one, what you sow is not made alive unless it dies. 37 And what you sow, you do not sow that body that shall be, but mere grain—perhaps wheat or some other grain. 38 But God gives it a body as He pleases, and to each seed its own body.

39 All flesh is not the same flesh, but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of animals, another of fish, and another of birds.

40 There are also celestial bodies and terrestrial bodies; but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another. 41 There is one glory of the sun, another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for one star differs from another star in glory.

42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. The body is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruption. 43 It is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness, it is raised in power. 44 It is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. 45 And so it is written, “The first man Adam became a living being.” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.

46 However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural, and afterward the spiritual. 47 The first man was of the earth, made of dust; the second Man is the Lord from heaven. 48 As was the man of dust, so also are those who are made of dust; and as is the heavenly Man, so also are those who are heavenly. 49 And as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly Man.
How do i know its not talking about life after earth? As in the life in paradise?
 





Joined
Mar 15, 2017
Messages
8,152
Likes
12,057
How do i know its not talking about life after earth? As in the life in paradise?
Because we (ie Christians) who ate taken in the rapture or raised from the dead come back with Him in judgement on the assembled armies of the Antichrist in glorified bodies?

1 Thessalonians 4

13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

Having met the Lord, we will be away during the the years the bible identifies as the “Time of Jacob’s Trouble” I.e. the Tribulation. If all those who have died believing in Jesus and the rest of us caught up prior to this judgement, we will no longer be merely physical beings but will ourselves be glorified and “like him”.

Jude then records our return with the Lord...


Jude 14-16 King James Version (KJV)

14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,

15 To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.
 





Joined
Mar 15, 2017
Messages
3,382
Likes
5,571
Because we (ie Christians) who ate taken in the rapture or raised from the dead come back with Him in judgement on the assembled armies of the Antichrist in glorified bodies?

1 Thessalonians 4

13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

Having met the Lord, we will be away during the the years the bible identifies as the “Time of Jacob’s Trouble” I.e. the Tribulation.

Jude then records our return with the Lord...


Jude 14-16 King James Version (KJV)

14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,

15 To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.
are you saying that christians will all die and then come back while the world is normally going on?
 





Joined
Mar 15, 2017
Messages
8,152
Likes
12,057
are you saying that christians will all die and then come back while the world is normally going on?
John 11 gives some insights...

20 Then Martha, as soon as she heard that Jesus was coming, went and met Him, but Mary was sitting in the house. 21 Now Martha said to Jesus, “Lord, if You had been here, my brother would not have died. 22 But even now I know that whatever You ask of God, God will give You.”

23 Jesus said to her, “Your brother will rise again.”

24 Martha said to Him, “I know that he will rise again in the resurrection at the last day.”

25 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live*.[i.e. “the dead in Christ shall rise first]

26 And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die*. [* I.e. Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.] Do you believe this?”

Love this song!

 





Joined
Mar 15, 2017
Messages
3,382
Likes
5,571
John 11 gives some insights...

20 Then Martha, as soon as she heard that Jesus was coming, went and met Him, but Mary was sitting in the house. 21 Now Martha said to Jesus, “Lord, if You had been here, my brother would not have died. 22 But even now I know that whatever You ask of God, God will give You.”

23 Jesus said to her, “Your brother will rise again.”

24 Martha said to Him, “I know that he will rise again in the resurrection at the last day.”

25 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live*.[i.e. “the dead in Christ shall rise first]

26 And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die*. [* I.e. Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.] Do you believe this?”

Love this song!

I'm very confused right now. Surely antichrist has to come before the end of the world and before everyone goes to paradise, no? How are Christians all dying and being reborn before that? Is there even an end of earth or this universe in Christianity?
 





Joined
Jun 1, 2018
Messages
912
Likes
963
I find it interesting that Biblical “Higher Criticism”, Marxism and Evolution all emerged around the same period. It is almost as if the world were ready to embrace an anti-God philosophy, and just needed the right political, scientific, philosophical and religious mix to achieve dominance within culture.

As nobody has successfully engaged with Dr James Tour’s questions on the viability of Abiogenesis, I think his voice has a place in this kind of discussion:-

A great testimony. I could relate to his witness of His conversion and regeneration. It was the same for me in meeting God through Jesus the Christ. As the same as others who have had the same mutual born again experience. Paul, in Romans 1:11-12 When he says: "For I long to see you that I may impart unto you some Spiritual Gift, to the end ye may be established. That is, that I may be comforted along with you by, The mutual faith, both of you and me." In other words . Their common experience of the lifting of the burden of sin and having experienced all things in common, of a born again believer. (Harmony in fellowship by the same experience) I know of many scientist who are believers.
 





Joined
Mar 15, 2017
Messages
8,152
Likes
12,057
I'm very confused right now. Surely antichrist has to come before the end of the world and before everyone goes to paradise, no? How are Christians all dying and being reborn before that? Is there even an end of earth or this universe in Christianity?
Perhaps this might help make things more clear?


Of course, you will be aware that this is an issue Christians sometimes disagree over, but from my my own studies and reading, it correlates most closely with the Bible.

As an additional clarification, Israel is part of this future history, but not in the way that many Orthodox modern Jews think.

 





Last edited:
Joined
Jul 29, 2018
Messages
1,564
Likes
778
Hopefully, it should be quite easy at this point for most to be able to agree with the following quotation:

13:113 The next step is to disband ALL forms of organized-religion, and for people to go into their
closets; or bathrooms; or into the countryside; or their garden; or to a lakeside; or seaside; or
anywhere in peace and solitude, and talk to God (thoughts, not spoken words) in humility, and
sincerity, and honesty, and ask Him to show you, what He wants you to do.

13:114 Then listen for His reply, in your thoughts, and learn to know the difference, between Satan’s
words and God’s enlightenment. Then keep God in your thoughts, 24 hours a day (even in your
dreams), and do your best to be like Jesus, or even better, like God, in thought, word and deed.
Practise, until you can still do it, in the middle of a noisy crowd, and/or in adversity.

- The Way home or face The Fire

People will never agree about their religions. That should make the reasons for the above being true even easier to understand.
 





Axl888

Established
Joined
Jul 29, 2019
Messages
181
Likes
202
You post something that proves my point which i posted to disprove yours
-"it supports young earth creation model"
To me, what you actually proved so far is that you don't actually believe in the power of your allah, that you might be in fact an atheist. How about you present to us a scientific study that actually supports your theology point by point, and not just parroting atheists/evolutionists talking points and asserting arrogant "because I say so" statements.
 





Last edited: