The reliability of Christian and Muslim texts compared

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That entry sounds more like a Muslim variation of the Christian loathing troll named Gnostic Christian Bishop than a genuine rebuttal.
No, it's very literal. As I said, you're not even denying it, at least you're not because it does stand to fact that your Bible is a bunch of anonymous storybooks, biographies which have less authority than a rat's hair. I can tell why you're a Christian though, it's quite obvious.

And I'll continue to repeat that because it is the truth.

prefer words of man who paraphrased other religions' words that he agreed with, and added words of his own which suited him personally
This is very literally what Jews say about Jesus, Paul and John, literally this is exactly what they say about you.
 






JoChris

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No, it's very literal. As I said, you're not even denying it, at least you're not because it does stand to fact that your Bible is a bunch of anonymous storybooks, biographies which have less authority than a rat's hair. I can tell why you're a Christian though, it's quite obvious.
You have not read the bible, it is painfully obvious.
Some authors are identified easily, others require reading comprehension and research skills (something definitely muhammad was incapable of doing, and too many Muslims follow his example).
Very easy examples:
e.g. Proverbs chapter 1:1 The proverbs of Solomon the son of David, king of Israel;

Isaiah 1:1 The vision of Isaiah the son of Amoz, which he saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem in the days of Uzziah, Jotham, Ahaz, and Hezekiah, kings of Judah.

Jeremiah 1:1 The words of Jeremiah the son of Hilkiah, of the priests that were in Anathoth in the land of Benjamin:

1 Corinthians 1:1 Paul called to be an apostle of Jesus Christ through the will of God, and Sosthenes our brother,
2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth...
And I'll continue to repeat that because it is the truth.
According to your faith. You paraphrase core Islam doctrines repeatedly.
This is very literally what Jews say about Jesus, Paul and John, literally this is exactly what they say about you.
Of course they will. They do not believe in Christianity.

It is very strange that you point that out though. How come you suddenly want to believe the words of JEWS, God's chosen people in the Old Testament, whom Muhammad calls pigs and asses more than Christians?

Mohsin Khan: Say (O Muhammad SAW to the people of the Scripture): "Shall I inform you of something worse than that, regarding the recompense from Allah: those (Jews) who incurred the Curse of Allah and His Wrath, those of whom (some) He transformed into monkeys and swines, those who worshipped Taghut (false deities); such are worse in rank (on the Day of Resurrection in the Hellfire), and far more astray from the Right Path (in the life of this world)."

http://corpus.quran.com/translation.jsp?chapter=5&verse=60
 






JoChris

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Ok Muslims - I just discovered the book Amazon banned that claims to have put the Quran in the correct order to show how Muhammad went from a founder of a new faith into a warlord.

UK Muslims - remember Tommy Robinson? He is one of the writers. https://epdf.pub/queue/mohammeds-koran-why-muslims-kill-for-islam.html

It will be very interesting to the rest of us who scratch our head at the Quran verses put in no logical sequence UNLIKE the bible. It apparently got 5 star ratings from readers. http://www.mohammeds-koran.com/articles/the-banning-of-this-book
 






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It is very strange that you point that out though. How come you suddenly want to believe the words of JEWS
No, I'm showing you how thin a string your Christianity is holding onto. The claims you're making about us, Jews have been making about you since the 1st century. However, unlike both of you, we don't hold validity to your random compilation of biographical texts (without any chain of transmission), poems and letters. Your Bible is not scripture, it is the leftover accumulated scraps from the time of Revelations that past long before your Bible was compiled. Your Bible is a joke and it's no wonder so many Christians have become Atheists after realizing it.
 






JoChris

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Because married couples having sex is not "controversial".
I scrolled through the Quran - looks like there are even more loopholes for men.

https://quran.com/78?translations=20

78:31
Indeed, for the righteous is attainment -
78:32
Gardens and grapevines
78:33
And full-breasted [companions] of equal age

Where is the small print that says WIFE? The Heaven of Islam permits sex slaves now?
Where is there any hint of consent from the women?
 






JoChris

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Lighten up folks. You are going to regret not being more kind to each other.
When Christians contradict Muslims conflict begins.
It is a pattern all over the world including online.

I know it is uncomfortable for people with a peace loving nature like yourself. :)
 






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JoChris

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No, I'm showing you how thin a string your Christianity is holding onto. The claims you're making about us, Jews have been making about you since the 1st century. However, unlike both of you, we don't hold validity to your random compilation of biographical texts (without any chain of transmission), poems and letters. Your Bible is not scripture, it is the leftover accumulated scraps from the time of Revelations that past long before your Bible was compiled. Your Bible is a joke and it's no wonder so many Christians have become Atheists after realizing it.
Infinityloop you are repeating the same thing paraphrased.
Are you capable of more than insults and speculations?
Do you really want to be taken as "seriously" as Gnostic Christian Bishop is now regarded on every forum he inflicts his presence upon?

Defend your position. I gave you links from ***professional*** bible apologists and you have not given me the same courtesy with defending your Quran.
Are you incapable, unable, unwilling OR all three?
 






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Are you capable of more than insults and speculations?
The Bible is a compilation of texts/books, YES or NO?
The Bible is largely written by anonymous authors, YES or NO?
The majority of Bible is made up of biographical texts which lack any form of transmission chain to verify it's authenticity, YES or NO?
The Bible was supposed to have been written over several thousand years, YES or NO?
The Bible contains no DIRECT revelation from the 'mouth of God', YES or NO?
The Bible canon officially decided upon by a council of men as a reaction against the other texts floating around at the same time, YES or NO?
The Prophets of the Old Testament taught the trinitarian doctrine, YES or NO?
Thou Shalt Not Make God any Graven Image, YES or NO?
The majority of the New Testament contains polemics against Jews because they didn't accept Jesus, YES or NO?
The Bible routinely rips off Pagan motifs, YES or NO?
 






JoChris

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Precisely because you continuously keep dodging it and refusing to defend your Bible.

I'm calling it: The Bible is indefensible.
OK, Muslim GCB. You type it, therefore it is true. Who can convince someone as infallible as yourself, you almighty, all knowing one?

You are currently determined to believe the words of Muhammad no matter what, it is painfully obvious. So be it.

P.S. I most definitely have read my bible, multiple times. Jesus knows my heart.
See you later, I will continue to pray for your salvation.
 






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OK, Muslim GCB. You type it, therefore it is true. Who can convince someone as infallible as yourself, you almighty, all knowing one?

You are currently determined to believe the words of Muhammad no matter what, it is painfully obvious. So be it.
And here you are foolishly assuming that I am speaking in reference to Islam, when I'm speaking from the point of view of the Bible itself.
I've read the Bible, I've been a Christian before, I know your doctrines, I know your arguments, I know your mannerisms, I know your psychology, I know your superstitions, I know your prejudices.

You always think I'm attacking you when I describe what the Bible actually is, how mightily ironic.

However, if you want respect you better as well bloody give some respect. You have nothing but disrespect and intolerance for Muslims, that shows post after post. You lack even the most basic of reading comprehension, as I have to keep posting the same thing over and over and over again because you just dodge or give irrelevant replies. You can't understand the most basic fact that the Bible is not direct revelation from God. This is not my position, this is the Bible's own self-evident format. The Bible was revealed to nobody by nobody.
I suppose you could make the argument that Paul "revealed" his letters to the various early Christian churches but that would be a dishonest stretch.
Your Bible can't defend itself, this is the problem. Time and time again you post irrelevant links that have nothing to do with what I am saying. This is the problem, it is a massive sign of a mind which lacks even the most basic sense of honesty or intellectual faculties.

Nothing about your Bible even remotely indicates itself to be what you claim it to be. Aside from this not every Christian agrees on your Nicene Creed Trinity doctrine either. Your Christianity is entirely political, subjective, arbitrary and incoherent. Your only defense is exclusivist rhetoric of self-affirmation which only historically acts as a defense against the very fact of how far your beliefs differ from the actual teachings of all the Prophets.
 






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And the fact does remain that the Bible is utterly indefensible. It says a lot when you realize that the Bible has no leg to stand on without the Revelation of the Qur'an to back up elements of it. We are in fact, your saving grace but you don't realize it.
Without the Qur'an, the Bible just floats back into the endless sea of other relative religious traditions - and there are a lot of other religions to compete with, many far more convincing that Christianity nonetheless.
The very compilation of the Bible itself and the fact that nobody can give an honest answer to it's compilation, what qualifies as legitimate Biblical texts, varying compiled canons between churches, most damning of all that there is no Book in the Bible which is a direct revelation of any kind.
It's damning as hell.
The fact that Christianity and Judaism themselves both need counter-polemics towards each other to justify their existence is very telling. The very fact that one of the core doctrines and themes throughout the entire Old Testament is against Idolatry is also telling.
Again, it's no wonder so many Christians become atheists.
At least Jews have a bit of modesty though, little bit more integrity (well, the religious ones at least).

Everything else you could possibly say to excuse yourself of the glaring, gaping holes, is just words. The fact remains that the Bible is just a compilation of texts written for theological purposes, with the distant remains of past revelation. To consider the Bible to be scripture of any form itself would require indoctrination and strong gullibility.

I certainly have no doubts about your threats either about Jesus returning, people like me won't be the ones punished by Jesus, that's damn well certain. The only antichrist religion is the one that thinks that of everyone else and goes against the very principles Jesus himself stood for. Jesus will have good fun with your souls.
 






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Red Sky at Morning

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Muslims = Arguments.
Christians = Emotions.
Logic, emotion and arrows

Despite the obvious empirical evidence of arrows flying through the air and the emotional experience of being stuck by one, the logical purist Zeno claimed that such motion was impossible.

“Zeno's arrow paradox: Zeno states that for motion to occur, an object must change the position which it occupies. He gives an example of an arrow in flight. ... If everything is motionless at every instant, and time is entirely composed of instants, then motion is impossible.”

This logical proposition was unassailable (by Greek philosophers working with their understanding of the nature of reality)

It was only after the discovery that smallness was not infinitely divisible and that Planck’s constant represented the smallest “quanta” of size, that this notion of Zeno on the arrow could finally be disproved (by an understanding of the true and unlikely nature of reality).

Whether we are discussing the eternality and foreknowledge of God as applied to free will and predestination or ideas unreachable by our own minds like the Trinity, there are human limits when it comes to understanding and articulating the divine. Our lack of capacity to fully comprehend the infinite attributes of God should not make us conclude that the way we understand God is merely emotional, but many people who have personally encountered the Lord will frankly say that they are often left at a loss for words and descriptive capacities.

These two verses give a sense of our limits...

John 3 (KJV)

2If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things?

Isaiah 55:8-9 (KJV)

8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord.

9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.
 






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Whether we are discussing the eternality and foreknowledge of God as applied to free will and predestination or ideas unreachable by our own minds like the Trinity, there are human limits when it comes to understanding and articulating the divine. Our lack of capacity to fully comprehend the infinite attributes of God should not make us conclude that the way we understand God is merely emotional, but many people who have personally encountered the Lord will frankly say that they are often left at a loss for words and descriptive capacities.
I didn't call God emotional, I called you Christians emotional. You're emotional, and us Muslims are argumentative (according to you). At least you don't disagree with my characterization of you.

For the record, no amount of sprinkled fluff can validate your trinity. The "mystery" of the trinity was concocted to account for the utter absurdity and heretical nature of the man-god doctrine. You say that it is so truthful that you can only shrug your shoulders. The only way you can defend it is to go "we're just lack the ability to understand it". That itself invalidates the concept, especially in the face of the entire Old Testament which is blatantly opposed to Idolatry the whole way through.

Your two options are:
1. Admit that God is only God, that God does not incarnate any more than the universe itself as an entire whole.
or:
2. Treat all Prophets as "God-incarnate", or alternatively convert to Vaishavism (branch of Hinduism) which believes Vishnu incarnated into ten different avatars.


As for "encounter the Lord", that is not something you are the arbiter of. Clearly if you had encountered God, your view on life would be very different from the view you are demonstrating on this forum.
 






Red Sky at Morning

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I didn't call God emotional, I called you Christians emotional. You're emotional, and us Muslims are argumentative (according to you). At least you don't disagree with my characterization of you.

For the record, no amount of sprinkled fluff can validate your trinity. The "mystery" of the trinity was concocted to account for the utter absurdity and heretical nature of the man-god doctrine. You say that it is so truthful that you can only shrug your shoulders. The only way you can defend it is to go "we're just lack the ability to understand it". That itself invalidates the concept, especially in the face of the entire Old Testament which is blatantly opposed to Idolatry the whole way through.

Your two options are:
1. Admit that God is only God, that God does not incarnate any more than the universe itself as an entire whole.
or:
2. Treat all Prophets as "God-incarnate", or alternatively convert to Vaishavism (branch of Hinduism) which believes Vishnu incarnated into ten different avatars.


As for "encounter the Lord", that is not something you are the arbiter of. Clearly if you had encountered God, your view on life would be very different from the view you are demonstrating on this forum.
There is the world of difference between being argumentative and providing reasoned argument. People reading our various exchanges will determine for themselves where logic ends and force of polemical argument begins. I respect the former and don’t have time to waste on the latter.
 






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