The reliability of Christian and Muslim texts compared

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There is not a single word about feasting in the Christian bible, lying about on sofas, men having as much sex as a man could possibly want with multiple wives etc etc.
Heaven in the bible is all about God and His bride (the church).
Lmao

Heaven in the Quran looks like it is nothing but pleasing the self via sex and feasting.
Why do you have such a small attention span? this has been discussed multiple times now yet you completely don't get it. You don't get your own Bible either but it's just to be accepted of you Evangelicals.
 






JoChris

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There's not a lot out there that "supports the Bible", only things which confirm the existence of some of the cultures that correlate to some of the Bible. You don't have any confirmations or direct evidence, only hypothesis and things which you place into that hypothesis. Your claim also supports you as much as us, which you should know already.
Is this really your best argument? arbitrary archaeology? you know that you're repeating the same argument Mormons make.
Less waffle and (attempted) mind-reading please.
Which specific questions do you actually want answered?
Which links would you accept and which would you reject?
How likely are you to trust a Christian information resource?

I am very skeptical that you would read any serious Christian apologetics link that proves the bible's reliability quite honestly.
However in case any readers might want to see some:

Currents in Biblical Research Journal
Bible research resources for students



I did ask for you to actually defend the supposed authority of your transmission-less compilation of anonymous authors but you have none and you know it. You have none, nor do you have any direct revelation from God and it makes you envious because deep down you know your anonymous Bible compilation is not authoritative at all.
I could make just the same claim about your Quran and pretend that you really do not believe in the Quran, that you are secretly quivering behind the keyboard and not brave enough to click a single Christian link in case Allah strikes you dead. :)
 






manama

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If people search the bible they will see it in many places.
https://www.bibleinfo.com/en/questions/where-is-heaven

The first most obvious search is using actual keyword "heaven". www.biblegateway.com If you limit searches to New Testament, especially the Book of Revelation it becomes easier to imagine heaven itself.

Believers will meet and see God face to face and be with Him for eternity.

John 14:14 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
4 And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.


1 Thessalonians 4:17 [rapture verse, for those who are on Earth when Jesus comes] Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Hebrews 12:22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect....
28 Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear....

Hebrews 12:22-29

2 Peter 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.


Revelation 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.



There is not a single word about feasting in the Christian bible, lying about on sofas, men having as much sex as a man could possibly want with multiple wives etc etc.
Heaven in the bible is all about God and His bride (the church). Heaven in the Quran looks like it is nothing but pleasing the self via sex and feasting.
Jo i want to be told why your version of Paradise is better than ours and how it is non material. You can surely answer that question without making us look through the Bible.

Because all i see in these verses is that people will meet their God, which is something that we will get along with all those other things.
 






manama

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Lmao



Why do you have such a small attention span? this has been discussed multiple times now yet you completely don't get it. You don't get your own Bible either but it's just to be accepted of you Evangelicals.
Apparently God's bride is not a literal term but a hyperbole but God's son is a literal term. As confusing as God calling Moses a God as a hyperbole but some random person calling Jesus God is not a hyperbole.
 






JoChris

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Lmao



Why do you have such a small attention span? this has been discussed multiple times now yet you completely don't get it. You don't get your own Bible either but it's just to be accepted of you Evangelicals.
For someone who has only 155 entries and only joined in June this year you cannot know that yourself.
You are trusting the words of long term VC Muslims.
I don't think I mentioned sex in Allah's heaven until very recently.

If the Quran is Allah's word, then defend it - including the controversial passages.
 






manama

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For someone who has only 155 entries and only joined in June this year you cannot know that yourself.
You are trusting the words of long term VC Muslims.
I don't think I mentioned sex in Allah's heaven until very recently.

If the Quran is Allah's word, then defend it - including the controversial passages.
Because married couples having sex is not "controversial".
 






JoChris

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Jo i want to be told why your version of Paradise is better than ours and how it is non material. You can surely answer that question without making us look through the Bible.

Because all i see in these verses is that people will meet their God, which is something that we will get along with all those other things.
In summary - we are going to be with God Himself forever. That will be reward enough.
Because married couples having sex is not "controversial".
It is when unlimited (to imagination only) wives who are permanent virgins are available to men, but wives get the same old fella in their human life and are expected to be satisified with that only.
 






manama

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It is when unlimited (to imagination only) wives who are permanent virgins are available to men, but wives get the same old fella in their human life and are expected to be satisified with that only.
Except its clear that you'll be with your human partner ONLY if you want it plus lets not forget how many SOs will end up hell. Its okay Jo, if you get there you'll get a nice fresh man if thats what youre salty about.

In summary - we are going to be with God Himself forever. That will be reward enough.
LMAO and this is supposed to be better than our paradise? You get to meet God and then what? you sit and talk for eternity?

We get to meet God, we get to see God and we would be in presence along with that we would have everything we ever wanted, our own castles and palaces and clothes like no other. We get the best kind of food ever and we get neverending rivers of drinks.

Along with that we get to go and meet all the prophets and the caliphs and the messengers and we get to go to their houses and ask about them about their earthly lives and then we get to meet Adam and Eve. We get to meet the angels and talk to them, we get to see and understand things we never understood in this world like the seven heavens and what not.There will be no death, no envy and no sin. And the more we want, we can just ask God. We would actually have LIVES.

To me it seems like our version of Paradise is made by someone who made humanity and understands them. Your version of Paradise sounds like a limbo to me.
 






manama

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We get exactly what you get multiplied by infinity. No wonder Satan is so envious of us lol.
 






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Which specific questions do you actually want answered?
What is the best way that I can avoid becoming a person like you?

I could make just the same claim...
Not even denying it, at least you're not because it does stand to fact that your Bible is a bunch of anonymous storybooks, biographies which have less authority than a rat's hair. I can tell why you're a Christian though, it's quite obvious.


For someone who has only 155 entries and only joined in June this year you cannot know that yourself.
Enough waffle, are you going to defend your Bible or not? you still haven't even tried, not even partially.
 






Haich

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That's an interesting question, what is the reward of a Christian. What does it say in your book other than meeting and being with the creator ?
(not talking about jesus there)

What is paradise like in your faith and is it a state or a literal place?
 






Haich

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Except its clear that you'll be with your human partner ONLY if you want it plus lets not forget how many SOs will end up hell. Its okay Jo, if you get there you'll get a nice fresh man if thats what youre salty about.


LMAO and this is supposed to be better than our paradise? You get to meet God and then what? you sit and talk for eternity?

We get to meet God, we get to see God and we would be in presence along with that we would have everything we ever wanted, our own castles and palaces and clothes like no other. We get the best kind of food ever and we get neverending rivers of drinks.

Along with that we get to go and meet all the prophets and the caliphs and the messengers and we get to go to their houses and ask about them about their earthly lives and then we get to meet Adam and Eve. We get to meet the angels and talk to them, we get to see and understand things we never understood in this world like the seven heavens and what not.There will be no death, no envy and no sin. And the more we want, we can just ask God. We would actually have LIVES.

To me it seems like our version of Paradise is made by someone who made humanity and understands them. Your version of Paradise sounds like a limbo to me.
I bet Jesus would have a lot of stories to tell in Jannah.
 






Red Sky at Morning

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Enough waffle, are you going to defend your Bible or not? you still haven't even tried, not even partially.
I have to say that the more I interact with Muslims, the more it seems that Islam is based on argument! The problem with argument is that reaches for the available things accessible to a human being and constructs a narrative around it. As a methodology for discussing measuring a shed or designing a curriculum, human reasoning is great. For understanding God it seems pitifully ill equipped. This shows in particular in the reasons given by Islam for rejecting a Triune God.

The second aspect of “argument” as a method is that it uses force of character to attempt to goad people into a position. I have purposefully ignored all such attempts as they have nothing to do with reason. To “win” an argument using rhetorical techniques over a theological point is merely a Pyrrhic victory as truth usually slips out of the door the moment the argumentative contingent move in.

As for “defending” the Bible, the Word of God is quite able to defend itself. I have shared some information on the Critical Text which those who wish to know could look into.

The prophecies of the Bible run concurrent to its timeframe for writing, and God’s fulfillments of these test the bounds of most people’s credulity to simply assign these to chance.

The OT and NT are separate, one showing God’s plan of redemption in veiled form, the other overtly. Detailed study of both reveals the fact that Jesus was truly the Lamb slain from the foundations of the world.

The hidden numeric values of the words in Greek and Hebrew reveal and support the written message in so many places that unless the writers were mathematical geniuses, would literally have been an impossible feat to write.

Finally, we live in times of prophetic fulfilment where those who continue to reject Jesus as Saviour and Lord may well find themselves within times where the only piece of information NOT to be fake news will be the Bible itself.
 






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manama

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Oh trust me you do NOT want to let the prophecies defend the "Word of God". Because while you guys take proverbs and apply it to current times using analogies like "snake" stands for this and this stands for that.

Our version of the prophecies are simple and to the point whether its about small stuff like relations between parents and children to the major stuff like atomic bombs.

You can't ignore us when we ask stuff about verses and then say that youre letting the "word of God" defend itself. Islam is not based on argument, its based on logic. And that is how it should be. A God should not have trouble explaining stuff to the things he created.
 






Red Sky at Morning

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You can't ignore us when we ask stuff about verses and then say that youre letting the "word of God" defend itself.
There was going to be a part 2 to my reply on the “as” God observation you made earlier, but I need to write it well as a good question deserves a good answer.
 






manama

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When we say that we are near the "End" we aren't saying that on the basis of "This feels like". We have been told signs that are separated into minor and major. The first major sign is the anti-christ. And we Muslims have seen each and EVERY minor sign be fulfilled.

Throughout history we have read that one of the major signs, that indicates that forgiveness is "no more" and what would make everyon finally believe is the sun rising in the west. And the hadith very explicitly tells us how the whole thing will happen.

Looking at this people used to say "its impossible because sun is in its place and its earth that rotates" but through science again we know that the rising of the sun from the east is because of the direction of the earth's rotation and the rotation CAN actually start in the opposite direction. There is a whole explanation and physics behind it but now we know that it will happen sometime in the future.

There is no competition between the two religions when it comes to prophecies when people can actually prove to you that the ones that are yet to come, WILL come.
 






JoChris

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Because married couples having sex is not "controversial".
There is a massive difference between one man one wife, and one man multiple [limited by imagination only] wives...

The Muslim woman who gets into Islam's paradise, after a lifetime of legalism, submission to men [or else], obeying Islam's laws ... and all she gets is the leftovers, tolerating seeing her husband have his fill "of marital love" with multiple women whenever he so wishes.
Some paradise.
 






JoChris

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What is the best way that I can avoid becoming a person like you?
Continue to:
1.WANT to believe the words of an illiterate man who was born 5 centuries after Jesus walked the Earth, and who became a warlord when he failed to get enough converts for his liking.
2. dismiss the words written by Jesus' own apostles/ disciples of the apostles.
3. prefer legalism to grace, to "earn" your way to Heaven instead of trusting that Jesus' death on the cross was enough to cover your sins.
4. prefer words of man who paraphrased other religions' words that he agreed with, and added words of his own which suited him personally (Aisha apparently gives a lot of interesting insights in other Islamic texts.... not exactly G rated either.)
Not even denying it, at least you're not because it does stand to fact that your Bible is a bunch of anonymous storybooks, biographies which have less authority than a rat's hair. I can tell why you're a Christian though, it's quite obvious.
That entry sounds more like a Muslim variation of the Christian loathing troll named Gnostic Christian Bishop than a genuine rebuttal.
Try harder.
Enough waffle, are you going to defend your Bible or not? you still haven't even tried, not even partially.
I did exactly what you just demanded in this entry in my previous one.
Did you even read it?
I gave you links that have professional Christian apologists answer your questions about the reliability of the bible.
Do you even **want** in depth details from people whose actual job is defending Christianity or not - YES or NO?

From your previous answers it is pretty safe to assume the latter option. Please prove me wrong.... PLEASE.
 






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I have to say that the more I interact with Muslims, the more it seems that Islam is based on argument! The problem with argument is that reaches for the available things accessible to a human being and constructs a narrative around it. As a methodology for discussing measuring a shed or designing a curriculum, human reasoning is great. For understanding God it seems pitifully ill equipped. This shows in particular in the reasons given by Islam for rejecting a Triune God.

The second aspect of “argument” as a method is that it uses force of character to attempt to goad people into a position. I have purposefully ignored all such attempts as they have nothing to do with reason. To “win” an argument using rhetorical techniques over a theological point is merely a Pyrrhic victory as truth usually slips out of the door the moment the argumentative contingent move in.
1. Ok, lets see.
Muslims = Arguments.
Christians = Emotions.
2. You're stuck on a nursery-level understanding of God, and one not gained from experience. You must also remember that Muslims aren't the only ones that completely reject your absurd anti-scriptural heretical trinity doctrine. Don't act like we're the only one's who do.
3. Not at all, this only true on your side. And it shows in how little you think of us, how openly you insult us and mock us. You have no arguments, that's the problem. This thread is a debate afterall, supposedly.

As for “defending” the Bible, the Word of God is quite able to defend itself.
You accept the Holy Qur'an now? that's great to hear!

But you're not, you're just being facetious. Which book in the Bible is the "word of God"? humor me.
That is a question you can never answer honestly because you have no revelation from God, only anonymous biographical texts, poems and letters. Nothing about that is even scripture.

The prophecies of the Bible run concurrent to its timeframe for writing, and God’s fulfillments of these test the bounds of most people’s credulity to simply assign these to chance.
Not really. Find a single two Christians that agrees with you, you'll be hard pressed.

The OT and NT are separate
Indeed. Hence why so many people view them both as the Tanakh with a bunch of scraps sellotaped onto the back.

one showing God’s plan of redemption in veiled form, the other overtly. Detailed study of both reveals the fact that Jesus was truly the Lamb slain from the foundations of the world.
Yes, that's what a Christian would say. You're just giving me your apologetic doctrine here. Nothing I didn't know.

The hidden numeric values of the words in Greek and Hebrew reveal and support the written message in so many places that unless the writers were mathematical geniuses, would literally have been an impossible feat to write.
Numerology? lmao.

Finally, we live in times of prophetic fulfilment where those who continue to reject Jesus as Saviour and Lord may well find themselves within times where the only piece of information NOT to be fake news will be the Bible itself.
And even that will be 'fake news'.
You are just giving me run-of-the-mill Christian doctrine again, we know you believe this, as I've said many times before. We know how exclusivist you are and how strongly you lack any real spirituality. So stuck in the anti-Jewish polemic, to counter them validly refusing to accept your 'strange gods' (Deuteronomy 13:3)
You're constantly so far from reality that you've got to antagonize everyone for not committing your idolatry. I'm truly not bothered in the slightest by your empty threats, you're just continuing to soil the name of Jesus, as Christians before you have for the past 2000 years (however even they were better connected to true Christians theology)
 






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