The Real Hero and Heroine of the Garden of Eden Story

Cintra

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If you ever get chance @Cintra read Perelandra by C.S. Lewis. The central question is the fairness of an arbitrary rule that God has asked you to keep. Do we choose obedience or rebellion?

You can know good and evil by choosing good. Like all great advertising professionals, the serpent managed to convince them that what they already had was not enough.
I have! Long ago.
Maybe time for a revisit.

I keep meaning to reread when we have faces, because it weirded me out when I was 16.

The whole good and evil, right gods wrong gods thing always reminds me of the good bad guy in Last Battle. And what he was told.

But regarding your comment, obedience or rebellion...
None of us would be posting on this forum if we just obeyed uncritically.

I have trouble with unquestioning obedience. It is the way I am made, and if god made me then he knows what I am like, and can make allowances for the fact that his creation is the way it is.
 






Maldarker

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Yeah, it's weird. I got Jiminy Cricket on my shoulder telling me to always let your conscious be your guide. What else do you need to know? I don't think any religion improves things better than that.
"RELIGIONS" don't kind of seem to cause the opposite.
 






Alanantic

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I feel like people aren't really engaging with the whole different interpretation of this story. Not surprising, as people have very strong attachments to literalist or "uncomplicated" explanations. Obviously the whole thing is a myth, to think otherwise would require serious self-deceit. Not that I'm saying that the evolutionary theory explains everything, I don't see how it can explain consciousness in particular.
Yeah, it's weird. I've got Jiminy Cricket on my shoulder telling me, "Let you conscience be your guide". I don't think any religion can improve on that.
 






Red Sky at Morning

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I have! Long ago.
Maybe time for a revisit.

I keep meaning to reread when we have faces, because it weirded me out when I was 16.

The whole good and evil, right gods wrong gods thing always reminds me of the good bad guy in Last Battle. And what he was told.

But regarding your comment, obedience or rebellion...
None of us would be posting on this forum if we just obeyed uncritically.

I have trouble with unquestioning obedience. It is the way I am made, and if god made me then he knows what I am like, and can make allowances for the fact that his creation is the way it is.
I think even those who choose to follow Jesus are pulled between obedience and rebellion. I could never make much of the whole “till we have faces” thing - a quick read of Romans 6,7 and 8 is far clearer!!!

As for “making allowances” for us, look at the way God dealt with Abraham, David, Jonah, Peter…. I don’t think our particular brand of self-willed contrarianism is anything new to Him!!
 






Maldarker

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He was a jew who converted to Protestantism. The reason of the "Supposed" conversion was because of anti - semitic laws. He was a professed atheist from a young age according from Marx himself.
 






Oceanic

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And then there's me who thinks God PURPOSELY put Adam and Eve in the garden for his will. SPECIFICALLY them two. Also, I believe they weren't the first humans to be created, there were other Nations already outside the garden. However, Adam and Eve were chosen to abide by his will.

You may think this is extremely false, but from my perspective, Eve didn't bite a fruit...she procreated with the "serpent" who is actually an evil being, but is SYMBOLICALLY called a serpent because God wanted serpents to be known as deceivers. It's also a metaphor.

Cain was the result from Eve and this evil being, which is why Cain was evil. Abel was the result from Adam and Eve which is why he's good.

Debate with me if you want.
 






Cintra

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I think even those who choose to follow Jesus are pulled between obedience and rebellion. I could never make much of the whole “till we have faces” thing - a quick read of Romans 6,7 and 8 is far clearer!!!

As for “making allowances” for us, look at the way God dealt with Abraham, David, Jonah, Peter…. I don’t think our particular brand of self-willed contrarianism is anything new to Him!!
I have to say I have a number of problems with the apparent behaviour of the old testament god.
 






Red Sky at Morning

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Wasn't Karl Marx a christian?
He came from a Christian background but he believed that man was basically good (if given the right environment) and hated the idea that “all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God”.

The communist experiment was based on that starry eyed premise. How successful that has been can be assessed in the rear view mirror of history.
 






Cintra

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On that, do you think we have access and clear insight to all the historical circumstances on which various actions might be judged?
No, we don’t.

And I can come.to many happy hypothetical accomodations as to why Onan should have been so outrageously punished etc. But really none of them fit with a literalist reading of the bible.

And that always ends up in the same place, god knows, we don't, have faith.

I have trouble with that.
 






Red Sky at Morning

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No, we don’t.

And I can come.to many happy hypothetical accomodations as to why Onan should have been so outrageously punished etc. But really none of them fit with a literalist reading of the bible.

And that always ends up in the same place, god knows, we don't, have faith.

I have trouble with that.
Without the context of the messianic line coming from the “seed of the woman” in Genesis, the incident with Onan makes no sense. When you see Satan trying to prevent the arrival of the one who will ultimately crushe his head, the reason defence of that future offspring of the line of David becomes clearer.
 






Cintra

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Without the context of the messianic line coming from the “seed of the woman” in Genesis, the incident with Onan makes no sense. When you see Satan trying to prevent the arrival of the one who will ultimately crushe his head, the reason defence of that future offspring of the line of David becomes clearer.
Yes.
Interesting!
Yes, that would make a.difference in a way.

In another way it just makes us all seem like disposable pawns on a chess board.
But yeah, seeing a fraction of the plan behind it all does make a difference.

Thanks for the link
I will look into that.
 






Oceanic

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Without the context of the messianic line coming from the “seed of the woman” in Genesis, the incident with Onan makes no sense. When you see Satan trying to prevent the arrival of the one who will ultimately crushe his head, the reason defence of that future offspring of the line of David becomes clearer.
I'm just glad there's an acknowledgement of how important bloodlines are. Not everything has to be spiritual.
 






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