The Prophecies of The Book of Daniel

[Thunderian]

AD 27 was the fifteenth year of Tiberius Caesar.

If Tiberius started his reign in AD 14, wouldn't AD 28 have been the fifteenth year of his reign?

 

[TokiEl]

From The Coming Prince:

In A.D. 32, the date of the true new moon, by which the Passover was regulated, was the night (10h 57m) of the 29th March.​

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Yes a new moon conjunction took place on March 29 32 AD 20:01 UT. (Or about 10h57m Jerusalem time).​

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The ostensible date of the 1st Nisan, therefore, according to the phases, was the 31st March.

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A new moon or month began at the sighting of the new crescent. So 1 Nisan in 32 AD must have begun on 31 March or 1 April.​

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If 1 Nisan in 32 AD began on 31 March then 14 Nisan must have begun on 13 April Monday and if 1 Nisan began on 1 April then 14 Nisan must have begun on 14 April Tuesday.​

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Jesus Christ was crucified on what was translated as Preparation which in Greek is Paraskue which is still Friday in Greece. Besides the Lord's Passover is on 14 Nisan.​

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So He was more than likely crucified on Friday 14 Nisan.​

In 32 AD 14 Nisan fell on either Monday or Tuesday. But the Bible says He was crucified on Paraskue /Friday. So 32 AD is simply wrong.​

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As, therefore, the difference between the solar year and the lunar is 11 days, it would amount in three years to 33 3/4 days, and the intercalation of a thirteenth month (Ve-adar) of thirty days would leave an epact still remaining of 3 3/4 days; and the "ecclesiastical moon" being that much before the real moon, the feast day would have fallen on the Friday (11th April), exactly as the narrative of the Gospels requires.

As we have seen 1 Nisan must have begun on either 31 March or 1 April and so 11 April is just 11/12 Nisan. But the Lord's Passover is 14 Nisan. You see the problem with 32 AD ?​

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Jesus was crucified on the Sabbath, but not on the full moon, so a crucifixion date of Friday, April 11, 32 works just fine, and it matches the date of April 6 of the same year for the triumphal entry.

Jesus was absolutely not crucified on the Sabbath... according to the Bible of course.

 

[TokiEl]

The entire prophecy was to extend for seventy weeks, or four hundred and ninety literal years (70 weeks x 7 days in a week = 490 prophetic days = 490 years). But the focus of the prophecy was when the Messiah was to appear. There were to be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks, or four hundred and eighty-three literal years (7 weeks + 62 weeks = 69 weeks x 7 days in a week = 483 prophetic days = 483 years).
The Messiah was to appear and be anointed to His mission ("Messiah" is a Hebrew word meaning "anointed one," like "Christ" in the Greek) four hundred and eighty three years from the beginning of this prophecy.

Weeks/Seven/Shabuwa are not to be turned into years nor days... but weeks. (Makes sense ?)

1 week/seven/shabuwa is 360 weeks.


The propetic timeline is counting down to the end of time...

Only 62 weeks/sevens/shabuwa were spent at the visitation of the Messiah which was at the Triumphal entry into Jerusalem. The remaining 7 weeks/sevens/shabuwa and 1 week/seven/shabuwa began counting down again when the time of the gentiles were fulfilled on 7 June 1967 when the Jews restored control over the Old City again.

It's a tricky prophecy and all have failed to solve it lol.

Time will tell if also i fail...

When did the prophetic clock begin ticking? "Know therefore, and understand, that from the going forth of the command to restore and build Jerusalem."

Jerusalem was still in ruins when Nehemiah asked Artaxerxes on Nisan in his 20th year to rebuild it... so that is your start date.

 

[TokiEl]

In the fall of AD 27, the fifteenth year of Tiberius Caesar, Jesus was baptized,

Phlegon of Tralles who wrote a historical compendium in sixteen books covering the first 228 Olympiads placed the start of Tiberius reign to Olympiad 198 year 2 [July 14 AD - July 15 AD] *1.

Sextus Julius Africanus in his Chronographiai correlated the sixteenth year of Tiberius to Olympiad 202 year 2 [July 30 AD - July 31 AD] which would place the first year of Tiberius to Olympiad 198 year 3 [July 15 AD - July 16 AD] *2.

Both authors are correct if January 15 AD was the official start of Tiberius reign and since January is the first month of the year in the Julian calendar and Roman dates were customarily kept according to the names of the two consuls who took office on January then it is reasonable to assume that the first year of the reign of Tiberius Caesar commenced on January 15 AD which would place his fifteenth year of reign in 29 AD.



*1 "For Phlegon says that he [Tiberius] became king in the second year of Olympiad 19{8},"

The Olympiads


*2 "For from Nehemiah, who was dispatched by Artaxerxes to build Jerusalem in the 115th year of the Persian empire, and the 4th year of the 83d Olympiad, and the 20th year of the reign of Artaxerxes himself, up to ibis date, which was the second year of the 202d Olympiad, and the 16th year of the reign of Tiberius Caesar,"
http://newadvent.org/fathers/0614.htm

 

[phipps]

If Tiberius started his reign in AD 14, wouldn't AD 28 have been the fifteenth year of his reign?

Tiberius did not start his reign in AD 14. He started his reign in AD 12. This is what I posted from my previous post. "The actual date that terminates the sixty-nine weeks would then be the fall of AD 27. (26 + 1 = 27) AD 27 was the fifteenth year of Tiberius Caesar. (He began jointly reigning with his father, Augustus Caesar, in AD 12.)." Historians confirm that date too.

 

[TokiEl]

Tiberius did not start his reign in AD 14. He started his reign in AD 12.

How about showing some sort of proof ?

 

[Thunderian]

If 1 Nisan in 32 AD began on 31 March then 14 Nisan must have begun on 13 April Monday and if 1 Nisan began on 1 April then 14 Nisan must have begun on 14 April Tuesday.​

​

Jesus Christ was crucified on what was translated as Preparation which in Greek is Paraskue which is still Friday in Greece. Besides the Lord's Passover is on 14 Nisan.​

So He was more than likely crucified on Friday 14 Nisan.​

In 32 AD 14 Nisan fell on either Monday or Tuesday. But the Bible says He was crucified on Paraskue /Friday. So 32 AD is simply wrong.​

As we have seen 1 Nisan must have begun on either 31 March or 1 April and so 11 April is just 11/12 Nisan. But the Lord's Passover is 14 Nisan. You see the problem with 32 AD ?​

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I see a problem with every other year, because of the reference to the 15th year of the reign of Tiberius.

I feel as if you didn't appreciate the significance of the excerpt I posted, or you would not be as dogmatic about placing the crucifixion on 14 Nisan. I urge you to read The Coming Prince if you want to understand some of the more complex issues surrounding the date.

Jesus was absolutely not crucified on the Sabbath... according to the Bible of course.

A Sabbath, not the Sabbath. That was a bit of a typo on my part.

During the last supper, Jesus told Judas to go out and do what he had to do. We know that Judas was going to arrange the betrayal of Jesus, but John tells us that the disciples thought Judas was going out to "buy those things that we have need of against the feast." Jews couldn't buy anything the day of a feast, so the day after the last supper was obviously a feast.

Jesus was crucified the day of a feast, a sabbath day.

 

[Thunderian]

Tiberius did not start his reign in AD 14. He started his reign in AD 12. This is what I posted from my previous post. "The actual date that terminates the sixty-nine weeks would then be the fall of AD 27. (26 + 1 = 27) AD 27 was the fifteenth year of Tiberius Caesar. (He began jointly reigning with his father, Augustus Caesar, in AD 12.)." Historians confirm that date too.

AD 12 still doesn't make the fifteenth year of his reign AD 27, so your problem is not solved.

 

[Thunderian]

AD 12 still doesn't make the fifteenth year of his reign AD 27, so your problem is not solved.

And anyway, by all accounts, Tiberius did not fully gain all the powers of his position until he was confirmed by the Senate in AD 14, and his reign is dated from that year.

 

[Bacsi]

Prophecies are nice, but the huge problem is everyone interprets them their own way... No clarity whatsoever, just endless confusion. It's bad...

 

[phipps]

And anyway, by all accounts, Tiberius did not fully gain all the powers of his position until he was confirmed by the Senate in AD 14, and his reign is dated from that year.

Its not about how much power he had gained. He was ruling then with his father. So by AD 27 he was in his fifteenth year of rule. History attests to that as well.

 

[phipps]

AD 12 still doesn't make the fifteenth year of his reign AD 27, so your problem is not solved.

12 + 15 =27.

 

[sim hae]

^ That's not how you count years

12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26

Count the numbers above, there are 15 numbers representing 15 years

 

[TokiEl]

I see a problem with every other year, because of the reference to the 15th year of the reign of Tiberius.

I feel as if you didn't appreciate the significance of the excerpt I posted, or you would not be as dogmatic about placing the crucifixion on 14 Nisan. I urge you to read The Coming Prince if you want to understand some of the more complex issues surrounding the date.

I appreciate the excerpt you posted and i stand on the shoulder of he who wrote The Coming Prince as he as i understand it solved the prophecy concerning the length of one week/seven/shabuwa and the correct start date on Nisan in Artaxerxes 20th year. According to Isaac Newton the 20th year on Nisan began in March 444 BC... and not 445 BC. And i agree with Newton as 33 AD crucifixion is proven beyond any reasonable doubt.

A Sabbath, not the Sabbath. That was a bit of a typo on my part.

During the last supper, Jesus told Judas to go out and do what he had to do. We know that Judas was going to arrange the betrayal of Jesus, but John tells us that the disciples thought Judas was going out to "buy those things that we have need of against the feast." Jews couldn't buy anything the day of a feast, so the day after the last supper was obviously a feast.

Jesus was crucified the day of a feast, a sabbath day.

Jesus was taken down from the cross just before Sabbath began.

 

[TokiEl]

Its not about how much power he had gained. He was ruling then with his father. So by AD 27 he was in his fifteenth year of rule. History attests to that as well.

Here is some sort of proof.


Phlegon of Tralles who wrote a historical compendium in sixteen books covering the first 228 Olympiads placed the start of Tiberius reign to Olympiad 198 year 2 [July 14 AD - July 15 AD] *1.

Sextus Julius Africanus in his Chronographiai correlated the sixteenth year of Tiberius to Olympiad 202 year 2 [July 30 AD - July 31 AD] which would place the first year of Tiberius to Olympiad 198 year 3 [July 15 AD - July 16 AD] *2.

Both authors are correct if January 15 AD was the official start of Tiberius reign and since January is the first month of the year in the Julian calendar and Roman dates were customarily kept according to the names of the two consuls who took office on January then it is reasonable to assume that the first year of the reign of Tiberius Caesar commenced on January 15 AD which would place his fifteenth year of reign in 29 AD.



*1 "For Phlegon says that he [Tiberius] became king in the second year of Olympiad 19{8},"

The Olympiads


*2 "For from Nehemiah, who was dispatched by Artaxerxes to build Jerusalem in the 115th year of the Persian empire, and the 4th year of the 83d Olympiad, and the 20th year of the reign of Artaxerxes himself, up to ibis date, which was the second year of the 202d Olympiad, and the 16th year of the reign of Tiberius Caesar,"
http://newadvent.org/fathers/0614.htm

 

[Thunderian]

Its not about how much power he had gained. He was ruling then with his father. So by AD 27 he was in his fifteenth year of rule. History attests to that as well.

No one looks at it that way. Why would Luke? It's just confusing.

 

[Thunderian]

Jesus was taken down from the cross just before Sabbath began.

Yes, but the Friday was also a sabbath.

 

[phipps]

No one looks at it that way. Why would Luke? It's just confusing.

Just because you don't look at that way doesn't mean others don't or didn't. Tiberius had been ruling for fifteen years. Its not about how how much power he had at the beginning of his rule.

It all started from King Artaxerxes's decree in 457 BC to both restore and build the city of Jerusalem.
"Seven weeks (49 day-years) for the rebuilding of Jerusalem and another threescore and two weeks (62 weeks or 434 day-years) brings us to "the Messiah the Prince." Beginning in 457 BC and applying the day-year principle, we can determine the passing of 483 years from 457 BC which brings us to 27 AD (allowing for the conversion from BC to AD being one extra year)."

This is what I believe so I'll just leave it at that. God bless.

 

[phipps]

^ That's not how you count years

12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26

Count the numbers above, there are 15 numbers representing 15 years

I know but I thought you guys had read my previous posts. There has never been a year zero. So you add 1 year to 26 AD.

I will repost part of my post again because its obvious you didn't read it. I've underlined that part you missed that explained whay it came down to 27 AD. That is how the years are calculated and how calenders work.

"In order, then, to discover the exact year that the Messiah was to appear, all one needs to do is add 483 years (the amount of time from the start of the prophecy to when the Messiah was to appear) to 457 BC. (Since 457 is BC, you treat it as a negative number and are actually subtracting it from 483.) This brings us down to AD 26. (483 – 457 = 26) There was one slight problem, though. Since the chronologists did not include a zero year (they went from 1 BC to AD 1), we must add one year to make the math calculations come out correctly.
The actual date that terminates the sixty-nine weeks would then be the fall of AD 27. (26 + 1 = 27) AD 27 was the fifteenth year of Tiberius Caesar. (He began jointly reigning with his father, Augustus Caesar, in AD 12.) Did anything significant take place in AD 27, the fifteenth year of Tiberius Caesar?"

 

[TokiEl]

Yes, but the Friday was also a sabbath.

What kind of a Sabbath would the Friday be ?