The Palestinian News You Don't See

Vixy

Vixy

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Thunderian said:
Here's a short answer:

When Jews first came into the land known now as Palestine, the name Palestine wasn't known, and there were no Palestinian people.

The people who were in that area are long gone now, and for thousands of years, the Jews have been the only people who have continuously occupied the land.

By the beginning of the 20th century, there was a mix of Jews and Arabs living in Palestine, and as more Jews moved back to their ancestral land, the economy began to grow, which in turn attracted more Arabs from surrounding areas who were able to find jobs and places to live.

Most "Palestinians" have roots in the area that only go back a hundred or so years. The Jewish people have a proven record of existance in Palestine for 3000 years. By any standard, they are the indigenous people there.

The other ones in this thread are unable to answer your question because the answer is not one they like.
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As I suspected then. It's Israels land.

Thank you so much for writing an extensive and very clear answer, Thundy!
 
Red Sky at Morning

Red Sky at Morning

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Thunderian said:
Here's a short answer:

When Jews first came into the land known now as Palestine, the name Palestine wasn't known, and there were no Palestinian people.

The people who were in that area are long gone now, and for thousands of years, the Jews have been the only people who have continuously occupied the land.

By the beginning of the 20th century, there was a mix of Jews and Arabs living in Palestine, and as more Jews moved back to their ancestral land, the economy began to grow, which in turn attracted more Arabs from surrounding areas who were able to find jobs and places to live.

Most "Palestinians" have roots in the area that only go back a hundred or so years. The Jewish people have a proven record of existance in Palestine for 3000 years. By any standard, they are the indigenous people there.

The other ones in this thread are unable to answer your question because the answer is not one they like.
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This whole question is clearly one of the most polarising and incediary topics on the forum!

Each perspective comes laden with baggage about the presuppositions of those holding differing views. In misunderstanding and misrepresenting those positions (because we don't share them) we can easily fall out! Each side has its trusted sources and "disinformation agents". In addition, the route to coming to these perspectives reaches issues far beyond the scope of this thread, founded in theology, history and vision of world history.

I doubt any of us will change anyone's else's deeply held views any time soon. If any were able to, perhaps they ought to hurry up and get a call in to Mr Trump and step in for young Jared K in the peace negotiations!!!

Btw, for what it's worth, I agree with you too, @Thunderian ;-)
 
rainerann

rainerann

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Vixy said:
But-but-but..The bible says its given to the Israels by God himself?
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Again, what the Bible says about the captivity is where you will find an answer to this question. What you are saying only further demonstrates the severity of the punishment that was given to them in removing them from the land to begin with.

Saying that the Bible says that God gave the land to the people of Israel is the same and choosing to become blind to the reality that the Bible also says they were punished by being taken into captivity and removed from the land.

How do you reconcile the fact that the scripture says this happened if they were given the land by God himself? It is like choosing to believe that one is true and the other isn't. Maybe we should just remove the prophets then and make it easier to support this position or maybe we should start reading the Talmud too. That would make it easier.
 
Red Sky at Morning

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rainerann said:
Again, what the Bible says about the captivity is where you will find an answer to this question. What you are saying only further demonstrates the severity of the punishment that was given to them in removing them from the land to begin with.

Saying that the Bible says that God gave the land to the people of Israel is the same and choosing to become blind to the reality that the Bible also says they were punished by being taken into captivity and removed from the land.

How do you reconcile the fact that the scripture says this happened if they were given the land by God himself? It is like choosing to believe that one is true and the other isn't. Maybe we should just remove the prophets then and make it easier to support this position or maybe we should start reading the Talmud too. That would make it easier.
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Just wondering because I genuinely don't know how you see this one...

Do you think that the Bible teaches that there would at some point be a literal return of the Jews to their land? If you do, do you believe it is the ones we have now, or will it be a different group at a future point in history. I'm not trying to catch you out btw...
 
rainerann

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Red Sky at Morning said:
Just wondering because I genuinely don't know how you see this one...

Do you think that the Bible teaches that there would at some point be a literal return of the Jews to their land? If you do, do you believe it is the ones we have now, or will it be a different group at a future point in history. I'm not trying to catch you out btw...
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Both, I believe the ones now are fulfilling the prophecy and the witnesses will return to rebuke the people for not repenting of their sins. This will look very much like the time when the people were taken into captivity when it all done with a prophet's rebuke and everything.

Then, the remnant that are the ones that actually read the Torah and understand the spirit of love and compassion that the Old Testament teaches, will be restored to the land after judgment is brought on the ones who are taking the land without favor from God. They are presently trying to take the land in defiance of God and are acting in hatred towards Him for their experience in exile in doing this. They do not accept that the experience of exile is the result of judgment towards them and choose repentance rather than the forced return to Israel through military intervention.

This is basically what I think the message of the witnesses will entail. The hatred the Jews have towards God by returning to the land which requires scheming and great injustice, just so that they can restore their position in their own strength. Just so they can force the world to see Israel the way the world is said to have seen Israel during the reign of Solomon. This rebuilding of Israel is the early stages of the reign of the antichrist who will try to rule from Israel.

Therefore, I don't support the restoration of Israel in the present because it is the same as supporting antichrist. However, I also think the presence of the Jews in Israel is the fulfillment of prophecy because the witnesses will return to give them a final rebuke for their disobedience. I also do believe Israel will eventually be restored.
 
Red Sky at Morning

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rainerann said:
Both, I believe the ones now are fulfilling the prophecy and the witnesses will return to rebuke the people for not repenting of their sins. This will look very much like the time when the people were taken into captivity when it all done with a prophet's rebuke and everything.

Then, the remnant that are the ones that actually read the Torah and understand the spirit of love and compassion that the Old Testament teaches, will be restored to the land after judgment is brought on the ones who are taking the land without favor from God. They are presently trying to take the land in defiance of God and are acting in hatred towards Him for their experience in exile in doing this. They do not accept that the experience of exile is the result of judgment towards them and choose repentance rather than the forced return to Israel through military intervention.

This is basically what I think the message of the witnesses will entail. The hatred the Jews have towards God by returning to the land which requires scheming and great injustice, just so that they can restore their position in their own strength. Just so they can force the world to see Israel the way the world is said to have seen Israel during the reign of Solomon. This rebuilding of Israel is the early stages of the reign of the antichrist who will try to rule from Israel.

Therefore, I don't support the restoration of Israel in the present because it is the same as supporting antichrist. However, I also think the presence of the Jews in Israel is the fulfillment of prophecy because the witnesses will return to give them a final rebuke for their disobedience. I also do believe Israel will eventually be restored.
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Thanks for helping me understand your perspective better. I will give your points some thought, as it is not a view I have previously encountered.
 
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UnderAlienControl

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Vixy

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I will not go into this debate with you guys. Its a heavy subject that I know too little of so I'll resign from the thread now that I have my answer. :)
 
rainerann

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UnderAlienControl said:
Let's just cut to the chase here...


Khazarians Then, Khazarians Now
http://www.veteranstoday.com/2017/09/05/khazarians-then-khazarians-now/
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Technically, to be Khazarian just means that the Jews and the Khazars intermarried. There was a migration a long time ago to the Khazaria and they intermarried with the Khazars. They are real descendants, they just also descend from Khazaria.

The problem is that many Jews migrated to many other places as well. There was also a lot of Jews who converted to Christianity in the first century and their connection to the genealogy of Israel is lost to us.

Therefore, there is no way that this present return to Israel can really be called a return of the descendants of Abraham.

The "Eastern European Jews" are not even a fraction of the true number of the descendants of Israel and so this cannot be considered a true return from exile. It is just an illusion.
 
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rainerann

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Vixy said:
I will not go into this debate with you guys. Its a heavy subject that I know too little of so I'll resign from the thread now that I have my answer. :)
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And I clearly got mine as well.

rainerann said:
Question: have you ever read through the Bible cover-to-cover?
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So the answer would evidently be no then. Not surprising.

I would just like to point out for other people who do not know the Bible that most responses like this come from a similar minimal level of study.
 
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UnderAlienControl

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EXCERPT (EMPHASIS BY AUTHORS):
King Bulan agreed and selected Torah Judaism as Khazaria’s official religion. This worked somewhat for a while, but soon Khazarians were drifting back to their old ways of national banditry, murder and gross parasitism of others from surrounding nations.

Religion without history is like a 3 legged chair-wobbly, at best... -- UAC
 
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