The Palestinian News You Don't See

[Thunderian]

But there is no proof the settlers defaced their own synagogue, and it would hardly be the first time someone had equated Zionism with Nazism. I'm really not sure what you're trying to say. Jews against Zionism is hardly a new thing.

 

[Serveto]

But there is no proof the settlers defaced their own synagogue, and it would hardly be the first time someone had equated Zionism with Nazism. I'm really not sure what you're trying to say. Jews against Zionism is hardly a new thing.

You can read as well as I can.

The prime minister's vow to establish new West Bank settlements came as Israeli security forces were completing the evacuation of Amona, where they broke into a synagogue to remove dozens of Israeli protesters who had barricaded themselves inside. Netanyahu's pro-settler government had unsuccessfully tried to block the evacuation of Amona, but Israel's Supreme Court rejected all appeals after determining the outpost was built illegally two decades ago on private Palestinian land.

[snip]

Amona has emerged as a symbol of settler defiance. On Thursday, Israeli police completed the evacuation of the wind-swept community, where hundreds of Jewish activists joined residents in resisting the pullout.
Police began the evacuation Wednesday, but dozens of activists remained holed up in the synagogue. Police initially said 200 had barricaded themselves inside but later revised the number to about 100.

On Thursday, several hundred Israeli forces surrounded the building, and officers wearing goggles and wielding plastic shields broke through the doors and sprayed water to push back defiant protesters. "The officers faced especially tough and violent resistance," police said in a statement. Protesters sprayed fire extinguishers at police and threw rocks, paint bottles and wooden planks, police said.

Slogans including "Death to Zionists" and a swastika comparing the Israeli police to Nazis were scrawled on the synagogue walls. The police later began dragging young protesters out of the building.

Source
So you tell me. Who do you think broke into that heavily armed, religiously endogamous "settlement" with Israeli policemen everywhere and wrote "Death to Zionists?"

 

[Thunderian]

So you tell me. Who do you think broke into that heavily armed, religiously endogamous "settlement" with Israeli policemen everywhere and wrote "Death to Zionists?"

Well, it's in the West Bank, and Al Jazeera reports that hundreds of other settlers were able to get around police barriers and into the area, so it could have been anyone.

I'm not even saying it wasn't settlers who wrote that. I just wondered where you had gotten that idea from.

 

[Serveto]

I told you where I got the idea. And I linked my source. Twice. I also read about the incident in other, especially Israeli sources, while it was happening. However, if you want to propose a conspiracy theory, or suggest a plausible (hidden) candidate or candidates, I am willing to consider it.

 

[Thunderian]

I told you where I got the idea. And I linked my source. Twice. I also read about the incident in other, especially Israeli sources, while it was happening. However, if you want to propose a conspiracy theory, or suggest a plausible (hidden) candidate or candidates, I am willing to consider it.

I didn't see anything in that article or the other ones I found that implied it was settlers who wrote that. Did I miss something?

As I said, the idea that there are Jews and even Israelis who are anti-Zionist is not a new one. I was just curious.

 

[Serveto]

I didn't see anything in that article or the other ones I found that implied it was settlers who wrote that. Did I miss something?

Perhaps. It might require a close reading. I will try again.

"On Thursday, several hundred Israeli forces surrounded the building [what building? the one with the settlers in it], and [Israeli] officers wearing goggles and wielding plastic shields broke through the doors and sprayed water to push back defiant protesters [if the police broke "through the doors," it follows that there were "protesters" inside]. "The officers faced especially tough and violent resistance, [from whom? protesters, obviously.]" police said in a statement. Protesters sprayed fire extinguishers at police and threw rocks, paint bottles and wooden planks, police said.

Slogans including "Death to Zionists" and a swastika comparing the Israeli police to Nazis were scrawled on the synagogue walls. The police later began dragging young protesters out of the building."

Who are the participants in the above drama? The cast of characters is this: 1) Israeli forces; and 2) ultra-nationalist, ultra-orthodox, in many cases Zionist despising Jewish protesters. If you can locate another plausible, non-specified candidate, someone who had access to the building during this incident, please show me. As I said, I am willing to consider conspiracy theories, or alternative views, but do usually, as you might have noticed from my opening response in this thread, refer first to establishment media, despite its many shortcomings.

 

[Thunderian]

Who are the participants in the above drama? The cast of characters is this: 1) Israeli forces; and 2) ultra-nationalist, ultra-orthodox, in many cases Zionist despising Jewish protesters. If you can locate another plausible, non-specified candidate, someone who had access to the building during this incident, please show me. As I said, I am willing to consider conspiracy theories, or alternative views, but do usually, as you might have noticed from my opening response in this thread, refer first to establishment media, despite its many shortcomings.

You may have noticed, I am not disputing it was settlers who wrote that. Again, I was just curious where you'd gotten that specific information from.

 

[Serveto]

Ok, @Thunderian, it was a strange game of tennis. No harm done and I appreciate your civility, as always. I expect, if God is willing, of course, that we will be able to play more rounds in the future. Consider this a handshake and a g'night from my location on this spinning planet.

 

[Thunderian]

All good, Serveto. Have a good rest, and see you next time.

 

[UnderAlienControl]

 

[UnderAlienControl]

The Tool video above makes for a good soundtrack while scrolling through and examining this sideshow, I mean slideshow. "For blessed are the peacemakers for they will be called sons of God" -- Matthew 5:9

Funny, I don't remember the Palestinians doing anything on this scale to Israel. Total devastation here. This is barbarism while claiming victimization. This goes way beyond just a military response, this is overkill. Once again, heavy handedness can only create bad PR. Selling this as justified is the microcosm of everything that is wrong with the world today...(<>..<>)

 

[Thunderian]

That's Aleppo.

What do you do? Just google for pics of bombed buildings so you can post them and blame Israel?

If we only listened to people like you, everyone would think that Gaza was just one big pile of smoking rubble.

The fact is, there are shopping malls:

Here's a popular store in Gaza called "Hitler 2", with mannequins dressed as terrorists and holding knives. Cute!

There are resorts:

There are also lots of restaurants, schools, business districts and even mansions.

If Gazans would stop attacking Israel and use some of the billions in aid they receive to do something other than dig tunnels and make weapons, Gaza would be a nice place. Your false and one-sided view of things doesn't represent the reality or the potential of Palestine.

 

[UnderAlienControl]

Hasbara is a form of propaganda aimed at an international audience, primarily, but not exclusively, in western countries. It is meant to influence the conversation in a way that positively portrays Israeli political moves and policies, including actions undertaken by Israel in the past.

As I stated, I don't recall any parts of Israel looking like that after any of these "skirmishes." White phosphorous on PEOPLE? Lotta dead "minors", man. Lotta pictures of dead "minors", man. Can't endorse that. Bad PR there. Those are pictures of Gaza destruction (EDIT: I see the one at top of Aleppo I used by mistake-but, that comes back round again at the bottom of the page). You know why this sh*t keeps going on? When you can deal with your "problems" with overwhelming force and face no (quash) condemnation or repercussions for it, then who needs to make any deals? And that's why there are no deals on the horizon. No need. They can just flatten any dissent, right? After all, that's good for business. You know, the "no peace" business. Gotta call it like I see it.man. We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one...Shalom

OPERATION CAST LEAD CASUALTIES: Source: Wikipedia


Rebuilding Gaza could take 100 years if Israel keeps blockade, says Oxfam
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/israel/11437649/Rebuilding-Gaza-could-take-100-years-if-Israel-keeps-blockade-says-Oxfam.html

Prominent American professor proposes that Israel “flatten Beirut” — a 1 million-person city it previously decimated
http://www.salon.com/2016/02/18/prominent_american_professor_proposes_that_israel_flatten_beirut_a_1_million_person_city_it_previously_decimated/

EXCERPT:
Israel killed approximately 1,200 people and wounded 4,400 more in its 2006 war in Lebanon, “the overwhelming majority of them civilians” according to leading human rights group Amnesty International’s 2007 report. One-third of the Lebanese civilians killed by Israel were children. On the other side, 43 civilians were killed in Israel in Hezbollah attacks.

One million people were displaced in Lebanon in the war — one-quarter of its population at the time. Tens of thousands of homes were destroyed, and Amnesty reported that “much of Lebanon’s civilian infrastructure was damaged or destroyed,” including Beirut’s airport, seaports, major roads, bridges, factories and more. Roughly 50 schools were destroyed and up to 300 were damaged.

Amnesty furthermore noted that up to one million cluster bomblets dropped by Israel remained in south Lebanon after the war, “posing a continuing risk to civilians.” In just one year after the war, hundreds of people in Lebanon were killed and wounded by Israeli bomblets and laid mines. Israeli authorities did not provide maps of the areas they targeted with cluster bombs, making it much more difficult for Lebanese authorities to clear up the remnants.

Critics argue that Hezbollah rarely initiates attacks, but rather instead responds to Israeli military attacks and assassinations of its leaders.

Israel claimed its invasion of Lebanon was retaliatory, initiated when Hezbollah kidnapped two Israeli soldiers in July 2006, but former Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert admitted that Israel had in fact planned the war several months in advance, and used the kidnappings as an excuse. Olmert told the Winograd Commission investigating the government’s actions that he had proposed the war in January and had the military draft plans in March.

Similarly, despite the Israeli government’s many claims that it tried to reduce civilian casualties in its 2008-2009, 2012 and 2014 wars on Gaza, numerous investigations by the U.N., human rights organizations — including Human Rights Watch andAmnesty International — and journalists found that Israel deliberately targeted civilians and used banned weapons like white phosphorous.

Reporting on Israel’s summer 2014 war in Gaza, Amnesty International said “There is consequently strong evidence that many such attacks in Rafah between 1 and 4 August were serious violations of international humanitarian law and constituted grave breaches of the Fourth Geneva Convention or other war crimes.”

The Israeli military has previously massacred civilians in Lebanon.

With the support of the U.S., Israel invaded Lebanon in 1982. It subsequently waged a war in alliance with far-right, Phalangist Christian militias. In September 1982, Israeli-backed Phalangist militias massacred thousands of civilians in Beirut’s Sabra and Shatila refugee camps.

Reflecting on the anniversary of the Sabra and Shatila Massacre in an interview on Democracy Now, renowned scholar Noam Chomsky called it “a horrifying massacre, actually one that should resonate with people who are familiar with Jewish history.” Chomsky notes that “it was almost a replica of the Kishinev massacre in pre-First World War Russia,” a pogrom the Czar carried out against the Jewish population. “This was a kind of a replica, except far more brutal and vicious,” he added, noting Israeli Prime Minister Ariel “Sharon escaped more than a mild censure.”

Lebanon 2006. Starting to see a pattern yet?

EXCERPT FROM COMMENTARY MAGAZINE: (Italics mine)
Jews did rise up, during the nineteen hundred years of dispersion, many times, against their oppressors. Under the Emperor Trajan, there took place a Jewish uprising in the Diaspora that lasted for two years—from 115 to 117 A.D. (See Simon Dubnow, Weltges-chichte des Jüdischen Volkes, Vol. 3, pp. 30, 50): similarly in Alexandria, in Babylonia, in Arabia (in 628 A.D.), in Germany (during the first Crusade), in Spain (Valencia 1391), in Poland (at the time of Chmelnitzky and later in 1768), against Gontha—Jews fought heroically with weapons in their hands. (See Dubnow, Vol. 5, pp. 120, 175, and 261; and Vol. 7, pp. 34, 102, and 164.)

In the 19th century, in Czarist Russia, the Jews established after the massacres of 1881—1882, a Self-Defense Organization, which produced many fighters. Jewish participation in the underground revolutionary movement in Czarist Russia was widely recognized as a significant contribution to the cause of freedom. Can all of these manifestations of Jewish heroism in the Diaspora be designated as docility?

In regard to the latest period—1939—1945—one must consider the special situation of the Jews in the ghettos and the un-surmountable handicaps which prevented mass revolts. There was no favorable strategic base, since the Jews in Eastern and Central Europe were herded by the Nazis into hermetically sealed ghettos, where their every move could be controlled and which they were prohibited to leave on pain of death. Weapons and explosives had to be smuggled into the ghettos, slipped in through heavily guarded ghetto gates, brought in through sewers, and by other ingenious devices. Many of the Jewish underground fighting groups tried, at a later period, to escape from the ghettos into the woods and mountains, but, in many cases, they were caught and executed. The Jewish underground was also faced with a serious moral issue: were they justified in leaving the ghetto population to face the enemy alone, or did they have to stay on and take the lead in the fight when the crucial moment arrived. An additional disadvantage was that the Gentile population in Eastern Europe did not identify itself with the Jewish resistance movement and had often a hostile attitude to it. The amount of weapons available to the Jewish underground often came too late or in ridiculously small quantities. In Bialystok and Vilna the Jewish requests for weapons were refused outright.

But, in spite of all these and many more obstacles, there were armed uprisings and various individual and collective acts of armed resistance: Warsaw was not the exception that proves the rule, but rather the symbol of Jewish rebellion. Before and after the Warsaw uprising, there were revolts in Czestochowa, Bialystok, Bedzin, Vilna, Cracow, in Treblinka, in Sobibor, Slonim, Nieswiez, Kleck, Nowogrodek, Mir, Minsk Mazowiecki, and many more. (See Philip Friedman,Jewish Resistance to Nazism in European Resistance Movements, 1939—1945; Y. Zuckerman, Sefer Milhamot Haghettoat; Joseph Tenenbaum, Underground: The Story of a People.)

It seems when a people think they are oppressed they tend to rise up, to resist, to go down fighting. Who woulda thought? Must be human nature, huh? See, these are all facts.So, if these are facts, does that make me a liar? (<>..<>)

All those who seek to destroy the liberties of a democratic nation ought to know that war is the surest and shortest means to accomplish it. ~Alexis de Tocqueville

Make wars unprofitable and you make them impossible. ~A. Philip Randolph

From fanaticism to barbarism is only one step. ~Denis Diderot

God hates violence. He has ordained that all men fairly possess their property, not seize it. ~Euripides

All governments suffer a recurring problem: Power attracts pathological personalities. ~Frank Herbert

The war is not meant to be won, it is meant to be continuous. ~George Orwell 1984

Emphasis on military prowess is an indication of philosophical poverty. ~Henk Middelraad

When fanatics are on top there is no limit to oppression. ~H.L. Menken

I destroy my enemies when I make them my friends. ~Abraham Lincoln

And yeah, I thought I might have mixed one in of Aleppo or maybe Fallujah by mistake (how ironic-ya can't tell any of these places apart cause they all look totaled), and that if I did you would probably point it out to which my reply would be: yeah, but when you get down to the root of it, isn't it all kinda the same thing anyway...?

 

[Thunderian]

This is Aleppo again.

Why not work on your sources a little?

 

[UnderAlienControl]

I know it's Aleppo..Same exercise, just deliberate this time. Slip in a pic from another country where the same thing has happened. Compare and contrast, compare and contrast. Anyway, now that the point is made, I fixed it. See, if you read you're Hawking he will tell you that if the temperature of the universe in this spot has this value, and the temperature of another part of the universe is the same value then this implies communication. So, logically speaking, I would say that these similar pics "imply communication". Food for thought... I will say this about the Beirut conflict though: that was a real fight, no bullsh*t on that. It was reported that Israel lost 58 Merkova tanks in that one. That implies that it was fierce combat, not just a rollover...

 

[Thunderian]

I just think you're in the wrong thread, man.

 

[UnderAlienControl]

Nah, I'm in the right thread according to the title, "The Palestinian News You Don't See." (yeah I know there's bad news (PR) on that side too-I told you earlier I get that) But, since it's not gonna change anytime soon, I'm tired of tilting this windmill. I'm afraid It's all in in God's hands now (and I'd imagine Satan's too, for a bit). I guess we'll just see how that all works out.

Still, keep in mind that if you're gonna post you're fair game for anybody looking for a round of point/counterpoint. Sometimes there's no personal investment, it's a debate on principles. Sometimes it's just playing the "Devil's Advocate." And, as I said before, this is about politics not people. Government, not citizens. And PR. A lot of it's about PR, and a seeming lack of care if any of it is good PR or not. Words won't change that. That's marketing. Only deeds will change that. That's progress.

Anyway, if you need me I'll be over in The Weird And Spooky Section. That's where I like it best. So please, do carry on and...Shalom. (<>..<>)

 

[Serendipity]

Can you provide some examples of Israel breaking agreements it's made with the Palestinians?

So when you make statements like, when did Israel ever stick to it's agreements, everyone nods and likes the posts, but the facts don't support that sentiment, do they? In fact, it's the Palestinians who have always broken peace deals.

It would take the whole page to post Israel's violations but you can read them here: https://www.foreignpolicyjournal.com/2010/01/27/rogue-state-israeli-violations-of-u-n-security-council-resolutions/
http://itisapartheid.org/Documents_pdf_etc/IsraelViolationsInternationalLaw.pdf

I'll find some more if this is not enough for you?

The difference between you and I is that I'm talking about this from a first-hand experience while you're talking about it after being fed by propaganda.

 

[Thunderian]

It would take the whole page to post Israel's violations but you can read them here: https://www.foreignpolicyjournal.com/2010/01/27/rogue-state-israeli-violations-of-u-n-security-council-resolutions/
http://itisapartheid.org/Documents_pdf_etc/IsraelViolationsInternationalLaw.pdf

I'll find some more if this is not enough for you?

The difference between you and I is that I'm talking about this from a first-hand experience while you're talking about it after being fed by propaganda.

The subject is peace agreements that Israel has made with the Palestinians and broken, not anti-Israel resolutions issued by the UN, a notoriously anti-Israel body.

Haven't you heard the joke about the UN soccer team? The question is who would they play, and the answer, of course, is Israel.

Try again. What treaties with the Palestinians has Israel broken?

 

[Kung Fu]

You're talking about treaties as if it means something. Treaties brokered by Israel's bitch (the US) aren't treaties. The situation in Palestine is quite simple. Israelis were given weapons and support to cleanse certain Palestinian areas to make room for the Israelies and then we have Israel's slaves come in and setup "treaties and peace negotiations" to make it look like a pleasant take over. That's equivalent to someone invading another man's home and then have your bigger, stronger, and dumber older brother to try to negotiate a way you can occupy the other man's home with him still trying to live in.