The Pagan X-mass/Yuletide/Saturnalia

A Freeman

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:rolleyes:
You are relying on people not knowing the original catholic (little c) church and the Roman Catholic church of today are not identical.
There are a huge number of sources quoted in this webpage that proves you wrong about 1 John 5:7 "being a fabrication".

The verse was there in many biblical ancient scripts. They were in Syriac, Old Latin, Old French, Old German, Spanish, Bohemian, all written well before the English translation King James Bible (1611). Scroll half-way down to see details.

Nonsense.
 
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Did you know that the Bible refers to salvation in the past, present, and future tense?
Past tense of salvation
A believer experiences this phase of salvation when they first believed. This occurs the moment you're saved from the penalty of sin by putting your faith in Jesus Christ.

For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast.
Ephesians 2:8-9 NKJV

When we were saved, we became a new creation. We became children of God. We didn’t have to earn it. How glad are you about that? I know I am because no one can ever earn their salvation by their own efforts. There’s no amount of good works that we could ever do to earn our way into the presence of a holy a just God.

The Apostle Paul makes this point clear in his letter to Titus:

Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior, that having been justified by His grace we should become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

Titus 3:5-7 NKJV

Before we were saved, we had no righteousness of our own. This means that we were not in a right relationship with God. But the moment we were saved, the righteousness of Christ was imparted to us. The righteousness of Jesus Christ was credited to our account. What’s more is that once we’re saved, we’re always saved. Forever and ever and ever!

But don’t take my word for it. Read the words of Jesus for yourself:

My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand.

John 10:27-29

Given the dire importance of the first tense of salvation, I feel it necessary to offer a note of caution. We must understand that salvation, and therefore the regeneration of our minds doesn’t come about by only knowing the gospel. Even the demons know that Jesus is the Son of God and they tremble with fear.
You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble!

James 2:19 NKJV

Rather, I’m talking about salvation that comes from putting our faith in Jesus. The kind of faith that comes from your heart. As Romans 10: 9 says “that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.”

Present tense of salvation

After we’re saved, we transition to the next tense of salvation. This is known as the sanctification process. This is the phase of our Christian life where the Holy Spirit works in us to convict us of our sins. Since we all slip up from time to time, this is a life-long process, but one we need to take very seriously.

As the Apostle Paul said to the Philippian church:

Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.

Philippians 2:12-13 NKJV

Before we were saved, we couldn’t stop sinning. At least not for long. But after we’re saved, the Holy Spirit gives us the power to overcome the sin in our lives. After all, Jesus wouldn’t have commanded us to “sin no more” if we weren’t able to obey that command (John 5:14).

And yet, all too often we make compromises in this area. We try to justify our sins. We try to convince ourselves (and sometimes others) that they’re not a big deal. But what did the Apostle Paul say? He said to work out our salvation (the sanctification process) with fear and trembling. In other words, this is of vital importance. Not because we might lose our salvation but because there are consequences to compromising. Or, don’t you know that God disciplines His children who practice disobedience (Hebrews 12:6)?

In addition to opening ourselves to God’s discipline when we’re disobedient, consider these reasons to take the sanctification process seriously:

Disobeying God’s word can cause us to lose rewards and blessings.

We can lose our sense of peace with God.
Living as a carnal Christian sets a horrible example to others (both other believers and unbelievers alike).

So how can we work out our salvation?

Here are some things that help me.

Listening to and reading the word of God reminds me of God’s will for my life. If we love God, we should want to get to know Him better, and that happens by submerging ourselves in His word “the Bible” (1 Peter 2:2).
Then listen for the voice of the Holy Spirit convicting you of your sins and then take action. We must change our mind (repent) of our sins.

I also like to think about the imminent return of Jesus to receive His church. This has really motivated me to clean up my life. After all, should the Lord’s bride prepare herself and be ready for His return?

The good news is that, as a believer, we’re no longer powerless from the death-grasp of sin. Unlike the unsaved, Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit gives us the power to resist Satan and his demons.

Past tense of salvation

Now for the really great news. Once we’re with the Lord in our glorified bodies, we’ll finally be saved from the presence of sin. No longer will we be tempted to war against God’s will. Isn’t that wonderful news?

https://jesus4evers.blogspot.com/2019/04/the-3-tenses-of-salvation.html?m=1
King of kings' Bible, Sura
5:122. "I AM" will say: "This is a Day on which the truthful will profit from their truth: theirs are Gardens, with rivers flowing beneath,- their eternal Home: I am well-pleased with them, and they with Me: that is the great Salvation, (the fulfillment of all desires).
5:123. To "I AM" doth belong the Dominion of the heavens and the Earth, and all that is therein, and it is He Who hath power over all things.
 
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Serveto

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No, I didn’t get the wrong impression..I didn’t appreciate the pat on the head or your acting like you‘re the teacher ..., teaching ...
Are you sure yours was a "testimony," though in parts it sounded like one, or was it really just an anti-Catholic bragamony pretending to be a pious testimony? Now that you have found no Biblical basis for Christmas and have exiled the Gingerbread Man to Siberia from your Kosher American kitchen, are you, by any chance, celebrating Hannukah? I notice that that is usually the next step taken when Jesus is kicked out and the miraculous lights of the menorah are welcomed in his place as the miracle par excellance.





No, I didn’t get the wrong impression..I didn’t appreciate the pat on the head or your acting like you‘re the teacher, teaching a lesson off my testimony.[/quote
Which is a good sign: is yours a "testimony," or, more specifically, an anti-Catholic bragamony? Your post seens to be a combination of both.
 
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Lisa

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Are you sure yours was a "testimony," though in parts it sounded like one, or was it really just an anti-Catholic bragamony pretending to be a pious testimony? Now that you have found no Biblical basis for Christmas and have exiled the Gingerbread Man to Siberia from your Kosher American kitchen, are you, by any chance, celebrating Hannukah? I notice that that is usually the next step taken when Jesus is kicked out and the miraculous lights of the menorah are welcomed in his place as the miracle par excellance.
It’s exactly what happened..including the catholic stuff.
Why would I celebrate hannukah? I’m a Christian.
 

JoChris

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Nonsense.
Says the follower of a man who has convinced himself he is Jesus reincarnated.Even in John Anthony Hill's (fictional) "bible" he says the same thing in Acts chapter 1 that disproves he can be Jesus.

KOK (mis)translation
1:10 And while they looked steadfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
1:11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Saviour, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

KJV bible
Acts 1:10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

That was quite an oversight there, wasn't it? John Anthony Hill, born in 1948 cannot possibly be that man.
Why does he need to exchange the name Jesus for word Saviour anyway? Doesn't he even want that statement to be clear?
 

Red Sky at Morning

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Says the follower of a man who has convinced himself he is Jesus reincarnated.Even in John Anthony Hill's (fictional) "bible" he says the same thing in Acts chapter 1 that disproves he can be Jesus.

KOK (mis)translation
1:10 And while they looked steadfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
1:11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Saviour, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

KJV bible
Acts 1:10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

That was quite an oversight there, wasn't it? John Anthony Hill, born in 1948 cannot possibly be that man.
Why does he need to exchange the name Jesus for word Saviour anyway? Doesn't he even want that statement to be clear?
A few years ago, do you remember Benjamin Creme?

EB5B0F21-A958-4AE1-B176-1753606AF728.jpeg

He asserted that the second coming prophesied by many religions would come in the form of Maitreya the World Teacher. Maitreya is the name Buddhists use for the future Buddha, but Creme claimed that Maitreya is the teacher that all religions point towards and hope for. Other names for him, according to Creme, are the Christ, the Imam Mahdi, Krishna, and the Messiah. Creme claimed Maitreya is the "Avatar for the Aquarian Age", is omniscient and omnipresent, and has lived in London since 19 July 1977...

Died 2016.

 

MoDc

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A few years ago, do you remember Benjamin Creme?

View attachment 29688

He asserted that the second coming prophesied by many religions would come in the form of Maitreya the World Teacher. Maitreya is the name Buddhists use for the future Buddha, but Creme claimed that Maitreya is the teacher that all religions point towards and hope for. Other names for him, according to Creme, are the Christ, the Imam Mahdi, Krishna, and the Messiah. Creme claimed Maitreya is the "Avatar for the Aquarian Age", is omniscient and omnipresent, and has lived in London since 19 July 1977...

Died 2016.


Read what the Nichiren Buddhists believe on this concept
 

A Freeman

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Says the follower of a man who has convinced himself he is Jesus reincarnated.Even in John Anthony Hill's (fictional) "bible" he says the same thing in Acts chapter 1 that disproves he can be Jesus.

KOK (mis)translation
1:10 And while they looked steadfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
1:11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Saviour, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

KJV bible
Acts 1:10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

That was quite an oversight there, wasn't it? John Anthony Hill, born in 1948 cannot possibly be that man.
Why does he need to exchange the name Jesus for word Saviour anyway? Doesn't he even want that statement to be clear?
Henry Ford is quoted as saying "of all the jobs thinking is the most difficult, which is why so few choose to do it".

The name Jesus is Greek and means SAVIOUR in the English language. It was left untranslated, in much the same way the name "David" was left untranslated in the Old Covenant, e.g. in Ezekiel 34:23. The name "David" translated to English means "Well-Beloved".

Leaving the names in their original language, and translating everything around them is the same as mis-translating those names. So those ERRORS have been corrected in the King of kings, so they appear as they should.

Compare Ezekiel 34:23 from the King of kings' Bible and the KJV

Kok: Ezekiel 34:23 And I will set up One shepherd over them, and he shall feed them, [even] My "Well-Beloved" servant; he shall feed them, and he shall be their shepherd.

KJV: Ezekiel 34:23 And I will set up one shepherd over them, and he shall feed them, even my servant David; he shall feed them, and he shall be their shepherd.

David had already been dead for several hundred years when this prophecy was written, and therefore couldn't possibly be the one being referred to in this prophecy about the end-times. So the failure to translate the name into Engish renders the prophecy nonsensical. Just like the failure to translate the name Jesus from Greek into English in Acts 1:11 renders it nonsensical as well.

The most important words in all of Scripture are found in John 3:3-13, which state that we MUST be born again as our true spiritual selves to even "see" the Kingdom of heaven, much less have any hope of entering it. As long as we think(?) and see with human eyes, we will continue to see everything upside down and backwards, as you apparently are doing.

There are no prophecies about a second coming of Jesus, the body that Christ incarnated 2000 years ago. Why? BECAUSE THAT BODY IS LONG GONE AND IS NOT COMING BACK.

It is the Second Coming of CHRIST that is prophesied. And it is Christ Who is our Saviour, regardless of what Name He uses. In fact, we're specifically told three times in Christ's own Revelation to John, that when He returns He will have a NEW NAME.

Revelation 2:17 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the communities; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden Manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a NEW name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth [it].

Revelation 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in The Temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, [which is] New Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and [I will write upon him] my NEW name.

Revelation 19:12 His eyes [were] as a flame of fire, and on his head [were] many crowns; and he had a NAME written, that NO man knew, but HE himself (ch. 2:17; 3:12).

It should be self-evident that there would be no need for a new name if Christ was returning as Jesus. Everyone knows the name of Jesus. Unfortunately it appears very few understand it is also a title which means "Saviour".

It should likewise be self-evident that there would be no need for a new name if Christ was returning in the same body. That's why we're told in Gen. 49:10, 22-26 that He will return in a new body as well from Joseph Ephraim.

And finally, it will be CHRIST, the Immortal Spirit-Being, Who is God's Eldest/Firstborn Son and the Commander of the Heavenly Host/Sabaoth (Army) that will be returning in the "Clouds" with great glory, AFTER Christ sheds the body He is currently incarnating to fulfill His Mission of publishing the Gospel to all nations (Matt. 24:14, Mark 13:10), writing the "little book" to finish the "mystery of God" (Rev. 10:7-10) and gathering the "Elect" - WHILE MOST OF THE WORLD REMAINS SOUND ASLEEP SPIRITUALLY - just before Judgment Day (SOON).

So instead of jumping to conclusions and having a knee-jerk emotional reaction to something that's been shared for everyone's benefit, why not take the time to read and THINK about it? Taking the time to go through the referenced verses and thinking about them should leave no doubt that what's been shared is TRUE.

May Father Bless you.
 
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Serveto

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It’s exactly what happened..including the catholic stuff.

Why would I celebrate hannukah? I’m a Christian.
Because, as I understand, and this according more to the Bible than the Catholic Magisterium, you are a wanna be Jewess engrafted onto the vine, and might want to now start participating in Jewish Holidays. This is only anecdotal, but I've heard their presents are better.
 
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The only thing mysterious about the "trinity" is how something that is so readily identifiable as mystery Babylon
Show me a Babylonian text that describes God as anything remotely similar to the Christian Trinity doctrine, or that says that Tammuz, Semiramis and Nimrod were the one God. Please indulge my appetite, so I may devour your delusions.

If you want to believe in Santa and the Easter Bunny, and that God is some sort of three-headed monster divided against Himself, all of which originated in Babylon with Santa's/Satan's little helper NIMROD, that's your business.
You sure you wanna get into Nimrod and the Babylonian roots of a religion?

Heck, why don't you show us the direct links or parallels between Babylonian myth and Christianity and I'll show you the links and parallels between Babylonian myth and the Torah.


It is your reading comprehension skills that are in desperate need of improvement, as you either missed or intentionally ignored the most important line in what was quoted.

...AS THE TRINITY, for which there is no such precise authority in the Gospels,
My entire response to this bit was exactly against this line. Do you think this is some accidental admission by the Church? Or are you able to understand that the Church has always admitted the Trinity as the best explanation for God's revelation? You want to have it spelled out for you, word by word, because you wish not to put effort in understanding, or lack the ability to, and the very fact that you can't wrap your head around it is the reason why you opt out and claim it is false. The Church knows and teaches the fallible faculties of the human mind, something which you, if we had to take your ego for it, are seemingly unaffected by.

Catechism 37:

Though human reason is, strictly speaking, truly capable by its own natural power and light of attaining to a true and certain knowledge of the one personal God, who watches over and controls the world by his providence, and of the natural law written in our hearts by the Creator; yet there are many obstacles which prevent reason from the effective and fruitful use of this inborn faculty. For the truths that concern the relations between God and man wholly transcend the visible order of things, and, if they are translated into human action and influence it, they call for self-surrender and abnegation. The human mind, in its turn, is hampered in the attaining of such truths, not only by the impact of the senses and the imagination, but also by disordered appetites which are the consequences of original sin. So it happens that men in such matters easily persuade themselves that what they would not like to be true is false or at least doubtful.


No one is denying that there isn't precise authority for the Trinity in the scriptures. We infer the revelation of the mystery of God to the best explanation and understanding. This requires reason and faith. You decided to apply neither.

I'd suggest something that I had written back in 2012, which is equally recommended to the readers of The Way Home by its author, that to reinterpret things correctly, "the individual must overcome or abandon his entire mental structure, a highly complex and mechanical structure that disables the mind to overcome that for which it was programmed", or as your guru would say: "read it with an open mind, without any preconceived ideas." Alas, you are neither overcoming the limits of your mechanical mental structure, nor are you letting go of your preconceived ideas, nor are you reading with an open mind, since you misread or misinterpret pretty much anything given to you.


A son is the OFFSPRING of his father. A father always exists BEFORE the father's son is BORN (brought into existence).
The Father is God. God is outside of Time. The Son is God. God is outside of Time. Therefore there is no "BEFORE" like you understand it according to the fallible faculties of your mind. The Father and the Son are eternally one, for if there was a time that there was no Son, there was a time that the Father wasn't a father.

The Tripartite Tractate

The Father

He existed before anything other than himself came into being. The Father is a single one, like a number, for he is the first one and the one who is only himself. Yet he is not like a solitary individual. Otherwise, how could he be a father? For whenever there is a "father," the name "son" follows.
...
It is, then, only the Father and God in the proper sense that no one else begot. As for the Totalities, he is the one who begot them and created them. He is without beginning and without end.

The Son

Just as the Father exists in the proper sense, the one before whom there was no one else, and the one apart from whom there is no other unbegotten one, so too the Son exists in the proper sense, the one before whom there was no other, and after whom no other son exists. Therefore, he is a firstborn and an only Son, "firstborn" because no one exists before him and "only Son" because no one is after him.



The Secret Book of John

The One is not among the things that exist, but it is much greater. Not that it is greater. Rather, as it is in itself, it is not a part of the eternal realms or of time. For whatever is part of a realm was once prepared by another. Time was not allotted to it, since it receives nothing from anyone: what would be received would be on loan. The one who is first does not need to receive anything from another.


Greater than does NOT mean "equal to".
Oh hear thee, uneducated one!

Tertullian, Against Praxeas

"Bear always in mind that this is the rule of faith which I profess; by it I testify that the Father, and the Son, and the Spirit are inseparable from each other, and so will you know in what sense this is said. Now, observe, my assertion is that the Father is one, and the Son one, and the Spirit one, and that They are distinct from Each Other. This statement is taken in a wrong sense by every uneducated as well as every perversely disposed person, as if it predicated a diversity, in such a sense as to imply a separation among the Father, and the Son, and the Spirit. I am, moreover, obliged to say this, when they contend for the identity of the Father and Son and Spirit, that it is not by way of diversity that the Son differs from the Father, but by distribution: it is not by division that He is different, but by distinction; because the Father is not the same as the Son, since they differ one from the other in the mode of their being. For the Father is the entire substance, but the Son is a derivation and portion of the whole, as He Himself acknowledges: My Father is greater than I. John 14:28



The Secret Book of John

The One is the invisible spirit. We should not think of it as a god or like a god. For it is greater than a god, because it has nothing over it and no lord above it.

The One is the immeasurable light, pure, holy, immaculate. The One is unutterable and is perfect in incorruptibility. Not that it is part of perfection or blessedness or divinity: it is much greater.



God does NOT have a God, or He wouldn't be God, by definition.
Correct. That's precisely why the Christian scripture says the Father and the Son, for they are one God.

Hang in there. You'll get it some day.


Christianity quite obviously does NOT follow Christ's Revelation and Teachings, or the world would be a much better place after 2000 years instead of more evil/sinful than ever before.
If you cannot see the effects Christianity has brought to the world, and what the status of the world was prior to its Christianisation, then you have zero knowledge of history. You've made many ridiculous statements before, but this one takes the prize.


Do you really think Christ came and suffered the agony of the cross to grant us the freedom to sin/do evil/break The Law with impunity?
Classic caricature of Christian redemption and a straw man.


It is Christ (the Truth - John 14:6) Who said that NO MAN has ever ascended to heaven except for Him (John 3:13). Nowhere in that verse does it say "before His revelation". That verse applies today, the same as it did when Christ made it. Truth is ETERNAL (not time dependent).
So you can understand that Truth is not time dependent, but you cannot understand that the Son (who is the Word, which is the Truth) is not time dependent. Great stuff, mate.

Hang in there. You'll get it some day.
 

Red Sky at Morning

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An exercise in spotting the difference*?

*For the interests of moderation, I am not promoting this source but using it as an example of common discourse techniques.

The Thule Society

“The name Adolf Hitler evokes a feeling of repulsion and fear and people think of a mind of evil and violence. All of our lives we’ve been told this story and it is so deeply embedded into our soul that it is part of our world view. People reject all things Nazi without looking at what they accomplished. For some reason, in recent years there has been a shift and some people are having an awakening. We are told so may lies from the media and politicians that many are going online to seek answers. They’re thinking for themselves. The kind of people who reject the official story about 9/11 discover that the mainstream media is one big lie after another and they wonder what else they have been lied to about. Digging deeper and going back further to World War II explodes one of the biggest lies in our history.



The reason why we’re told that Hitler was one of the most evil people in history is precisely because he was one of the greatest leaders of all time. Looking beyond how he raised up his people with new hope and new life we discover the breathtaking and mysterious inner qualities of the man himself. Adolf Hitler was actually a spiritual being and leader manifesting in the form of the German chancellor and Fuehrer. This is what he is to the Thule Society, then and now. He was not a normal man. John F. Kennedy said that Hitler had the stuff of which legends were made. This is a hero worship cult.

Because of most people’s programming, no matter how much evidence they are shown to the contrary they turn away, and they will not change their bias against Hitler. The Thule Society is only for the very few who face this great truth and embrace it.”

 

A Freeman

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Show me a Babylonian text that describes God as anything remotely similar to the Christian Trinity doctrine, or that says that Tammuz, Semiramis and Nimrod were the one God. Please indulge my appetite, so I may devour your delusions.

You sure you wanna get into Nimrod and the Babylonian roots of a religion?

Heck, why don't you show us the direct links or parallels between Babylonian myth and Christianity and I'll show you the links and parallels between Babylonian myth and the Torah.


My entire response to this bit was exactly against this line. Do you think this is some accidental admission by the Church? Or are you able to understand that the Church has always admitted the Trinity as the best explanation for God's revelation? You want to have it spelled out for you, word by word, because you wish not to put effort in understanding, or lack the ability to, and the very fact that you can't wrap your head around it is the reason why you opt out and claim it is false. The Church knows and teaches the fallible faculties of the human mind, something which you, if we had to take your ego for it, are seemingly unaffected by.

Catechism 37:

Though human reason is, strictly speaking, truly capable by its own natural power and light of attaining to a true and certain knowledge of the one personal God, who watches over and controls the world by his providence, and of the natural law written in our hearts by the Creator; yet there are many obstacles which prevent reason from the effective and fruitful use of this inborn faculty. For the truths that concern the relations between God and man wholly transcend the visible order of things, and, if they are translated into human action and influence it, they call for self-surrender and abnegation. The human mind, in its turn, is hampered in the attaining of such truths, not only by the impact of the senses and the imagination, but also by disordered appetites which are the consequences of original sin. So it happens that men in such matters easily persuade themselves that what they would not like to be true is false or at least doubtful.


No one is denying that there isn't precise authority for the Trinity in the scriptures. We infer the revelation of the mystery of God to the best explanation and understanding. This requires reason and faith. You decided to apply neither.

I'd suggest something that I had written back in 2012, which is equally recommended to the readers of The Way Home by its author, that to reinterpret things correctly, "the individual must overcome or abandon his entire mental structure, a highly complex and mechanical structure that disables the mind to overcome that for which it was programmed", or as your guru would say: "read it with an open mind, without any preconceived ideas." Alas, you are neither overcoming the limits of your mechanical mental structure, nor are you letting go of your preconceived ideas, nor are you reading with an open mind, since you misread or misinterpret pretty much anything given to you.


The Father is God. God is outside of Time. The Son is God. God is outside of Time. Therefore there is no "BEFORE" like you understand it according to the fallible faculties of your mind. The Father and the Son are eternally one, for if there was a time that there was no Son, there was a time that the Father wasn't a father.

The Tripartite Tractate

The Father

He existed before anything other than himself came into being. The Father is a single one, like a number, for he is the first one and the one who is only himself. Yet he is not like a solitary individual. Otherwise, how could he be a father? For whenever there is a "father," the name "son" follows.
...
It is, then, only the Father and God in the proper sense that no one else begot. As for the Totalities, he is the one who begot them and created them. He is without beginning and without end.

The Son

Just as the Father exists in the proper sense, the one before whom there was no one else, and the one apart from whom there is no other unbegotten one, so too the Son exists in the proper sense, the one before whom there was no other, and after whom no other son exists. Therefore, he is a firstborn and an only Son, "firstborn" because no one exists before him and "only Son" because no one is after him.



The Secret Book of John

The One is not among the things that exist, but it is much greater. Not that it is greater. Rather, as it is in itself, it is not a part of the eternal realms or of time. For whatever is part of a realm was once prepared by another. Time was not allotted to it, since it receives nothing from anyone: what would be received would be on loan. The one who is first does not need to receive anything from another.


Oh hear thee, uneducated one!

Tertullian, Against Praxeas

"Bear always in mind that this is the rule of faith which I profess; by it I testify that the Father, and the Son, and the Spirit are inseparable from each other, and so will you know in what sense this is said. Now, observe, my assertion is that the Father is one, and the Son one, and the Spirit one, and that They are distinct from Each Other. This statement is taken in a wrong sense by every uneducated as well as every perversely disposed person, as if it predicated a diversity, in such a sense as to imply a separation among the Father, and the Son, and the Spirit. I am, moreover, obliged to say this, when they contend for the identity of the Father and Son and Spirit, that it is not by way of diversity that the Son differs from the Father, but by distribution: it is not by division that He is different, but by distinction; because the Father is not the same as the Son, since they differ one from the other in the mode of their being. For the Father is the entire substance, but the Son is a derivation and portion of the whole, as He Himself acknowledges: My Father is greater than I. John 14:28



The Secret Book of John

The One is the invisible spirit. We should not think of it as a god or like a god. For it is greater than a god, because it has nothing over it and no lord above it.

The One is the immeasurable light, pure, holy, immaculate. The One is unutterable and is perfect in incorruptibility. Not that it is part of perfection or blessedness or divinity: it is much greater.



Correct. That's precisely why the Christian scripture says the Father and the Son, for they are one God.

Hang in there. You'll get it some day.


If you cannot see the effects Christianity has brought to the world, and what the status of the world was prior to its Christianisation, then you have zero knowledge of history. You've made many ridiculous statements before, but this one takes the prize.


Classic caricature of Christian redemption and a straw man.


So you can understand that Truth is not time dependent, but you cannot understand that the Son (who is the Word, which is the Truth) is not time dependent. Great stuff, mate.

Hang in there. You'll get it some day.
A SON, by definition, is the OFFSPRING of His Father.

Greater than does NOT mean "equal to", by definition.

God's WORD is HIS Truth, which can be shared in ANY form: telepathically (through prayer), in written form (through Scripture) or through a flesh and blood example (through Prince Michael/Christ).

The leaders of ALL organized religion are "the blind leading the blind". That is where YOU obtained every bit of the information you post, and apparently choose to accept, because YOU, like your leaders/teachers are SPIRITUALLY BLINDED BY YOUR OWN ARROGANCE/IGNORANCE (your ego "self"). That's why you're still arguing complete nonsense, even after being shown that "Christianity", like all religions, has a 100% FAILURE RATE.

Do you have a death wish? Do you want to burn?

The ROMANS, who founded the ROMAN Catholic church on a complete pack of LIES are, in fact, the direct descendants of the Babylonians.

Sura 17:7. If ye did well, ye did well for yourselves; if ye did evil, (ye did it) against yourselves. So when the second of the warnings came to pass, (We permitted your enemies) to disfigure your faces, and to enter your Temple as they* had entered it before, and to visit with destruction all that fell into their power. *(the Babylonians and the Romans are the same race with a new name and country - note well New Covenant/Testament - Revelation 17:5. They destroyed both the First and Second Temples. They destroyed the First Temple as Babylonians and the Second Temple as Romans but the Babylonians and the Romans are the same race of people).

Revelation 17:4-5
17:4 And the woman ("the great whore") was arrayed in PURPLE (bishops) and SCARLET (cardinals) colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:
17:5 And upon her forehead [was] a name written, MYSTERY (2 Thess. 2:7), BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS (her daughters - ALL the protestant denominations, which she gave birth to) AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.

God says, through His Word, that Rome is New Babylon. God says, through His Word, that the Romans are the direct descendants of the Babylonians, and the only race of people to ever destroy the Temple - Solomon's Temple c. 588 BC, and Herod's Temple c. 70 AD. God says, through His Word, that the Mystery Babylon is Roman Catholicism, with its purple colored bishops and its scarlet colored cardinals, with its FILTHY golden cup for its blasphemous "Holy Communion" and the rest of its immense worldly wealth, all headquartered in the heart of the "city that sits on seven hills" - ROME.

An entire thread has been devoted to going through all of the vivid descriptions of Roman Catholicism found in Revelation 17 in great detail for anyone who may be interested in the truth about "the great whore".


And yet despite God Himself telling us that Roman Catholicism derives its pagan religious roots directly from Babylon, YOU, in your amazing arrogance/ignorance think (or wish to pretend) you know better than God about the numerous direct connections between Babylon and Rome.

THE TRUTH: There is no trinity. No Santa Claus. No Easter Bunny. Reindeer don't fly. There's no queen of heaven. Rome IS new Babylon.

Learn to destroy your ego/arrogance/ignorance before it destroys YOU.
 

A Freeman

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6,866
Mixing obvious falsehoods along with doctrines you wish to attack is rhetoric, not reason.
THEY ARE ALL FALSEHOODS (LIES).

When did Jesus EVER claim to be God?

When did Jesus EVER claim to be part of a trinity?

When did Jesus EVER claim to be equal to God?

When did Jesus EVER claim to be anything more than the Son OF God?

When did Jesus EVER claim to be All-Powerful?

When did Jesus EVER claim to be All-Knowing?

When did Jesus EVER claim to be present everywhere at the same time?

The TRUTHFUL answer to ALL of the above questions is NEVER. Nowhere in the Scriptures does Jesus make these claims.

So the pagan Babylonian trinity delusion-confusion is simply another LIE, just like Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny, promoted by organized religions so they can tell and sell their paying customers/unwitting(?) victims what they want to hear and buy: more LIES.

Like the LIE that Jesus is God (Matt. 27:46, John 20:17, Rev. 3:12).

Like the LIE that God is a three-headed monster that talks to Himself (Deut. 6:4, Zech. 14:9, Mark 12:29); that God is three, but not three, equal, but not equal, etc., etc. (total confusion/nonsense).

Like the LIE that the pagan Babylonian trinity is somehow different than other idols and false gods (Exod. 20:3-6, Deut. 5:7-10).

Like the LIE that believing in some pagan trinity is a prerequisite for salvation (Exod. 20:3-6, Deut. 5:7-10, John 14:15-24, John 17:3).

Like the LIE that only God can keep The Law He gave us for our own benefit, when Christ, through the mouth of Jesus, told us the exact opposite (Matt. 5:17-20, Matt. 5:48, Matt. 16:27, Matt. 19:26).

Like the LIE that our CHANGELESS God somehow changed His Mind, and sent His son to do away with His Perfect Law because it was supposedly too hard for us to keep.

Like the LIE that everyone who believes in such obvious LIES, and promotes them, won't be thrown into the Lake of Fire on Judgment Day (Mal. 4, Rev. 20:12-13, Rev. 21:8).

LIES ARE LIES. Fairy tales ARE fairy tales. Superstitions ARE superstitions. Pagan rites and rituals ARE pagan.

God is NOT the author of confusion (1 Cor. 14:33); SATAN/SANTA is.

The TRUTH (His Word) since the beginning has ALWAYS been with God , and will ALWAYS be WITH God, and IS God.

And the TRUTH is the pagan Babylonian/Roman trinity deity, Santa and the Easter Bunny are all LIES.

2 Thessalonians 2:3-12
2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for [that day shall not come], except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of The Destroyer (Lucifer - Satan);
2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in The Temple of God, showing himself that he is God (the Holy Father).
2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
2:7 For the mystery (Rev. 17:5) of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth [will let], until he be taken out of the way.
2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the [Sword of the] Spirit from his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness [of the enlightening] of his coming (His SECOND Coming):
2:9 [Even the Wicked], whose coming is the work of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of The Truth, that they might be saved.
2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a LIE (e.g. the trinity delusion, that we don't have to repent and obey God ONLY - Acts 5:29 - by keep The Law/Commandments of God.):
2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not The Truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
 
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Lisa

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THEY ARE ALL FALSEHOODS (LIES).

When did Jesus EVER claim to be God?

When did Jesus EVER claim to be part of a trinity?

When did Jesus EVER claim to be equal to God?

When did Jesus EVER claim to be anything more than the Son OF God?

When did Jesus EVER claim to be All-Powerful?

When did Jesus EVER claim to be All-Knowing?

When did Jesus EVER claim to be present everywhere at the same time?

The TRUTHFUL answer to ALL of the above questions is NEVER. Nowhere in the Scriptures does Jesus make these claims.

So the pagan Babylonian trinity delusion-confusion is simply another LIE, just like Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny, promoted by organized religions so they can tell and sell their paying customers/unwitting(?) victims what they want to hear and buy: more LIES.

Like the LIE that Jesus is God (Matt. 27:46, John 20:17, Rev. 3:12).

Like the LIE that God is a three-headed monster that talks to Himself (Deut. 6:4, Zech. 14:9, Mark 12:29); that God is three, but not three, equal, but not equal, etc., etc. (total confusion/nonsense).

Like the LIE that the pagan Babylonian trinity is somehow different than other idols and false gods (Exod. 20:3-6, Deut. 5:7-10).

Like the LIE that believing in some pagan trinity is a prerequisite for salvation (Exod. 20:3-6, Deut. 5:7-10, John 14:15-24, John 17:3).

Like the LIE that only God can keep The Law He gave us for our own benefit, when Christ, through the mouth of Jesus, told us the exact opposite (Matt. 5:17-20, Matt. 5:48, Matt. 16:27, Matt. 19:26).

Like the LIE that our CHANGELESS God somehow changed His Mind, and sent His son to do away with His Perfect Law because it was supposedly too hard for us to keep.

Like the LIE that everyone who believes in such obvious LIES, and promotes them, won't be thrown into the Lake of Fire on Judgment Day (Mal. 4, Rev. 20:12-13, Rev. 21:8).

LIES ARE LIES. Fairy tales ARE fairy tales. Superstitions ARE superstitions. Pagan rites and rituals ARE pagan.

God is NOT the author of confusion (1 Cor. 14:33); SATAN/SANTA is.

The TRUTH (His Word) since the beginning has ALWAYS been with God , and will ALWAYS be WITH God, and IS God.

And the TRUTH is the pagan Babylonian/Roman trinity deity, Santa and the Easter Bunny are all LIES.

2 Thessalonians 2:3-12
2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for [that day shall not come], except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of The Destroyer (Lucifer - Satan);
2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in The Temple of God, showing himself that he is God (the Holy Father).
2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
2:7 For the mystery (Rev. 17:5) of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth [will let], until he be taken out of the way.
2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the [Sword of the] Spirit from his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness [of the enlightening] of his coming (His SECOND Coming):
2:9 [Even the Wicked], whose coming is the work of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of The Truth, that they might be saved.
2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a LIE (e.g. the trinity delusion, that we don't have to repent and obey God ONLY - Acts 5:29 - by keep The Law/Commandments of God.):
2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not The Truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
How many people once they die get up a few days later and walk around again? How many people can say they came from heaven and then lift up off the ground and return to heaven? Maybe your cult leader claims that..idk...but their was only one that did that and His name is Jesus. Everyone else dies and stays dead.

In John we find out that Jesus is the word and that He existed with God, was with God and is God.
Also in John Jesus tells us before Abraham, I Am. Which is significant because that’s the name God gives Moses when Moses asks His name.

No one has come down from heaven, we are all born.
No one dies and comes back to life three days later.
No one is seen lifting off the earth and returning to heaven.
No one...but Jesus.
 

elsbet

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Messages
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Mainstream Christianity teaches the same. They all teach belief in the trinity is crucial for salvation (which is what it means to become Catholic - as "legally" defined in the legislation known as the Athanasian Creed and it's variants).

The "Apostles' Creed" is a variant of the "Athanasian Creed".

The "Athanasian Creed" defines "belief in the trinity" (trinitarianism) as "the Catholic faith".

If you are a trinitarian you are therefore classified as catholic.
From the Athanasian Creed

At his coming all people will arise bodily​
and give an accounting of their own deeds.​
Those who have done good will enter eternal life, and those who have done evil will enter eternal fire.​
Trinity (or Trinitarian belief), aside-- this above is not biblical. This statement of yours is not true, either--

Mainstream Christianity <-- whatever that is --> teaches the same. They all teach belief in the trinity is crucial for salvation...​
You can believe in the trinity and know nothing of salvation. Maybe the Catholic church teaches that but the bible does not.
 

A Freeman

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Messages
6,866
Nothing you've said is evidence of anything, except your ignorance of what the Scriptures actually say.

How many people once they die get up a few days later and walk around again? How many people can say they came from heaven and then lift up off the ground and return to heaven? Maybe your cult leader claims that..idk...but their was only one that did that and His name is Jesus.
And Elijah...

2 Kings 2:1 And it came to pass, when the "I AM" would take up Elijah into heaven by a whirlwind, that Elijah went with Elisha from Gilgal.

2 Kings 2:11 And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, [there appeared] a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.

Everyone else dies and stays dead.
We (the Souls/spirit-Beings) do NOT die (at least not until the Last Day); only the human-animal bodies dies.

Every Soul/spirit-Being goes to paradise upon being "unlocked" from the body they've been in, exactly as Christ, through the mouth of Jesus told the thief hanging next to Him on the cross. From there (paradise), we are then sent back here - to Earth - to do it again until we get it right or run out of time, as we've all been doing for roughly 6000 years, and also exactly as Christ teaches.

Reincarnation is an Irrefutable Fact

In John we find out that Jesus is the word and that He existed with God, was with God and is God.
But that isn't what it actually says in John 1:1, is it? The WORD is God's TRUTH, which has been delivered via telepathy (prayer), verbally (through the Prophets), in writing (the Scriptures) and in the flesh and blood example of Jesus.

John 1:1 In the Beginning was the Word (Truth - in Hebrew is Nazir), and the Truth was with God (NOT with Lucifer/Satan the Devil), and the Word was God.

Also in John Jesus tells us before Abraham, I Am. Which is significant because that’s the name God gives Moses when Moses asks His name.
So was Paul also claiming to be God when he said the same thing?

1 Corinthians 15:10 But by the grace of God I am what I am: and His grace which [was bestowed] upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.

Christ, the IMMORTAL Spirit-Being couldn't very well say "I was" now could He? Christ is obviously still very much alive today, which is what prompted the present tense form "I am". Christ did NOT say: 'I am the "I AM"', did He?

Exodus 3:14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and He said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, "I AM" hath sent me unto you.

Nor does the original Greek invoke "Kyrios" or "Theos" in John 8:49 (John 8:58 KJV) does it? It's the same common usage of the present tense "am" as is found in Paul's letter to the Corinthians.



No one has come down from heaven, we are all born.
The humans are born here on Earth (Gen. 1:26-27). The spirit-Beings are then placed inside of them (Gen. 2:7). You need to learn the difference between the two (John 3:3-7).

No one dies and comes back to life three days later.
Agreed, except for those whom Father, THROUGH His Christ, raised from the dead (e.g. Lazarus). But it is Father (God, YHWH, or in English the "I AM") Who raised the dead, INCLUDING Jesus (1 Kings 17:17-24, Acts 2:24, 2:32, 3:15, 4:10, 5:30, 10:40, 13:30, Gal. 1:1, 1 Thess. 1:10, 1 Cor. 6:14, 2 Cor. 4:14, Rom. 4:24, 6:4, 8:11, Eph. 1:20, Heb. 13:20 and others). Jesus did NOT raise Himself.

No one is seen lifting off the earth and returning to heaven.
No one...but Jesus.
And Elijah...

2 Kings 2:1 And it came to pass, when the "I AM" would take up Elijah into heaven by a whirlwind, that Elijah went with Elisha from Gilgal.

2 Kings 2:11 And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, [there appeared] a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.
 
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