The One Universal Religion Of Love

[Red Sky at Morning]

Tolerance and co-existence are both great! In fact, they are necessary. If we are to live together in peace without hating each other, or physically harming each other, over differences in race, culture, sexual orientation, political views, and religious beliefs, we must have tolerance. However, we must also recognize that every belief can’t be equally valid. If two beliefs directly contradict each other, both of them cannot be true, no matter how “tolerant” we become. This means it is false to say that every religion is true, or that every religion leads to God. When people make such claims they are showing that they have not taken the time to study the world’s religions, because a brief reading of the sacred texts of only a handful of religions quickly reveals contradictions on the most fundamental levels.

Religious Contradictions

Reincarnation (Hinduism and Buddhism) contradicts the belief that this life is the only life before eternity (Christianity, Judaism, and Islam).

Pantheism (Hinduism) contradicts the belief that there is only one transcendent God (Christianity, Judaism, and Islam), and both of these beliefs contradict the belief that there is no God (Theravada Buddhism and Atheism).

Salvation from sin (Christianity) contradicts the belief that there is no sin to be saved from but simply pain that can be escaped through enlightenment (Buddhism).

Jesus Christ being the incarnate, Son of God (Christianity), contradicts the teaching that he is just a prophet (Islam) or that he was a false prophet (Judaism).

Jesus dying as an atoning sacrifice for the sins of the world and rose from the grave contradicts the belief that Jesus ascended into heaven while never dying on a cross, or facing death of any kind (Islam).

All religions that suggest that the merits of an individual can free a person from humanity’s ultimate problem of death contradict Christianity’s teaching that “we are saved by grace through faith in Christ, which is a gift, so that no one may boast” (Ephesians 2:8).

In light of these contradictions, all religions can’t be true. They could all be false, but they can’t all be true.

How can one know which religion is true, if any?


To discern if a belief is true, it needs to be testable. The scientific method can’t test most of the claims found in the world’s religions, but science is not our only means of verifying the legitimacy of truth claims. In the case of judging religious truth claims, historical-forensic evidence needs to be utilized. Christianity is the ONLY religion that has at its center, a historical event that can be evaluated in such a manner to prove or disprove its religious truth claims. Paul says in 1 Corinthians 15 that if Christ did not rise from the grave that his faith is futile and his testimony about Jesus would be a lie. If someone could prove that Jesus did not rise from the grave, then the resurrection would be considered a false claim and the Christian faith should be rejected. On the flip side, if Jesus DID rise from the grave, it confirms that Jesus’ claim to be “the way, the truth, and the life, the only way to Father” (John 14:6) is true! If he did not rise from the grave, then Jesus was a liar and Christians ought to be pitied above all men.

Is there evidence that Jesus rose from the grave?

The good news for Christians and all of humanity is that the New Testament is the best attested ancient manuscript in terms of the number of copies it has, the dates of the copies to their original writings, as well as the accuracy of those copies. In addition to this, the original Gospels were written by eyewitnesses, or written by people who wrote using eyewitness testimony. This also means the authors were writing too close to the death and resurrection of Jesus for myths to have crept into the accounts. Other witnesses, both friend and foe, would have known if the Gospel writers were telling lies and they would have revealed the Gospels to be false. However, we have no such competing accounts from contemporaries. We do on the other hand have non-Christian authors writing in the first and second centuries who affirm the claims of the Gospels, and no one in the first century was ever able to produce the bones of Jesus to disprove the empty tomb that Sunday morning. The Jewish and Roman leaders and authorities had the motive and the means to disprove the resurrection, but they could not. The best they could do was to persecute Christians as an attempt to stop the spread of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. They continued to proclaim the risen Christ all the way to their martyrdom. If the account of Jesus’ resurrection that originated with the apostles is a LIE, it would mean that they chose to die gruesome deaths instead of exposing the hoax that they created. Many might die for that they THINK is true, but who would die for what they KNOW is a lie?

Exclusive Claims and Teachings Concerning Salvation within the Bible

John 3:36 “Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on him.”


John 14:6 “Jesus answered, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.”


Acts 4:12 “Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved.”


Ephesians 2:8-10 “For it is by grace you have been saved through faith – and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God – not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God’s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.”


John 3:16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”


Acts 2:37-39 “When the people heard this, they were cut to the heart and said to Peter and the other apostles, “Brothers what shall we do?” Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off – for all whom the Lord our God will call.”


Jesus is the Savior of all people groups. He is the Savior of the Buddhist, the Hindu, the Muslim, the Jew, the Satanist, the Atheist, the homosexual, the heterosexual, the republican, and the democrat – all people. Everyone has fallen short of the glory of God and deserve God’s wrath, yet… to all who have received him, to all who have called upon his name, he has given the right to be called children of God! (John 1:12) Repent and be baptized in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit for the forgiveness of sins. (Matt. 28:19 and Acts 2:38)

https://contradictmovement.org/pages/what-does-this-mean

 

[shankara]

Tolerance and co-existence are both great! In fact, they are necessary. If we are to live together in peace without hating each other, or physically harming each other, over differences in race, culture, sexual orientation, political views, and religious beliefs, we must have tolerance. However, we must also recognize that every belief can’t be equally valid. If two beliefs directly contradict each other, both of them cannot be true, no matter how “tolerant” we become. This means it is false to say that every religion is true, or that every religion leads to God. When people make such claims they are showing that they have not taken the time to study the world’s religions, because a brief reading of the sacred texts of only a handful of religions quickly reveals contradictions on the most fundamental levels.

Religious Contradictions

Reincarnation (Hinduism and Buddhism) contradicts the belief that this life is the only life before eternity (Christianity, Judaism, and Islam).

Pantheism (Hinduism) contradicts the belief that there is only one transcendent God (Christianity, Judaism, and Islam), and both of these beliefs contradict the belief that there is no God (Theravada Buddhism and Atheism).

Salvation from sin (Christianity) contradicts the belief that there is no sin to be saved from but simply pain that can be escaped through enlightenment (Buddhism).

Jesus Christ being the incarnate, Son of God (Christianity), contradicts the teaching that he is just a prophet (Islam) or that he was a false prophet (Judaism).

Jesus dying as an atoning sacrifice for the sins of the world and rose from the grave contradicts the belief that Jesus ascended into heaven while never dying on a cross, or facing death of any kind (Islam).

All religions that suggest that the merits of an individual can free a person from humanity’s ultimate problem of death contradict Christianity’s teaching that “we are saved by grace through faith in Christ, which is a gift, so that no one may boast” (Ephesians 2:8).

In light of these contradictions, all religions can’t be true. They could all be false, but they can’t all be true.

How can one know which religion is true, if any?


To discern if a belief is true, it needs to be testable. The scientific method can’t test most of the claims found in the world’s religions, but science is not our only means of verifying the legitimacy of truth claims. In the case of judging religious truth claims, historical-forensic evidence needs to be utilized. Christianity is the ONLY religion that has at its center, a historical event that can be evaluated in such a manner to prove or disprove its religious truth claims. Paul says in 1 Corinthians 15 that if Christ did not rise from the grave that his faith is futile and his testimony about Jesus would be a lie. If someone could prove that Jesus did not rise from the grave, then the resurrection would be considered a false claim and the Christian faith should be rejected. On the flip side, if Jesus DID rise from the grave, it confirms that Jesus’ claim to be “the way, the truth, and the life, the only way to Father” (John 14:6) is true! If he did not rise from the grave, then Jesus was a liar and Christians ought to be pitied above all men.

Is there evidence that Jesus rose from the grave?

The good news for Christians and all of humanity is that the New Testament is the best attested ancient manuscript in terms of the number of copies it has, the dates of the copies to their original writings, as well as the accuracy of those copies. In addition to this, the original Gospels were written by eyewitnesses, or written by people who wrote using eyewitness testimony. This also means the authors were writing too close to the death and resurrection of Jesus for myths to have crept into the accounts. Other witnesses, both friend and foe, would have known if the Gospel writers were telling lies and they would have revealed the Gospels to be false. However, we have no such competing accounts from contemporaries. We do on the other hand have non-Christian authors writing in the first and second centuries who affirm the claims of the Gospels, and no one in the first century was ever able to produce the bones of Jesus to disprove the empty tomb that Sunday morning. The Jewish and Roman leaders and authorities had the motive and the means to disprove the resurrection, but they could not. The best they could do was to persecute Christians as an attempt to stop the spread of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. They continued to proclaim the risen Christ all the way to their martyrdom. If the account of Jesus’ resurrection that originated with the apostles is a LIE, it would mean that they chose to die gruesome deaths instead of exposing the hoax that they created. Many might die for that they THINK is true, but who would die for what they KNOW is a lie?

Exclusive Claims and Teachings Concerning Salvation within the Bible

John 3:36 “Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on him.”


John 14:6 “Jesus answered, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.”


Acts 4:12 “Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved.”


Ephesians 2:8-10 “For it is by grace you have been saved through faith – and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God – not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God’s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.”


John 3:16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”


Acts 2:37-39 “When the people heard this, they were cut to the heart and said to Peter and the other apostles, “Brothers what shall we do?” Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off – for all whom the Lord our God will call.”


Jesus is the Savior of all people groups. He is the Savior of the Buddhist, the Hindu, the Muslim, the Jew, the Satanist, the Atheist, the homosexual, the heterosexual, the republican, and the democrat – all people. Everyone has fallen short of the glory of God and deserve God’s wrath, yet… to all who have received him, to all who have called upon his name, he has given the right to be called children of God! (John 1:12) Repent and be baptized in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit for the forgiveness of sins. (Matt. 28:19 and Acts 2:38)

https://contradictmovement.org/pages/what-does-this-mean

Words. They are just signposts. If you are going to a destination from some direction the signpost says one thing, from another direction another thing. The place you arrive is the same. Experience, practice, technique, these are the essence of the different teachings.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

Words. They are just signposts. If you are going to a destination from some direction the signpost says one thing, from another direction another thing. The place you arrive is the same. Experience, practice, technique, these are the essence of the different teachings.

Analogies can also be crafted to support a narrative. One might also point out that even one change in a phone number gets you through to a completely different person @shankara

 

[DavidSon]

Tolerance and co-existence are both great! In fact, they are necessary. If we are to live together in peace without hating each other, or physically harming each other, over differences in race, culture, sexual orientation, political views, and religious beliefs, we must have tolerance...

You should have stopped here. The rest of your post is the same personal revelation we've read a thousand times. The inability of ones to hold a coherent, logic based conversation about a specific subject I find troubling. Evangelicals have a real problem talking about anything other than themselves. This is what I was saying about the level of maturity, and why in the realm of conscious seekers, mainstream Christians place themselves off in the kiddie seats while the adults in the other room talk about real life.

IMO there are negative consequences to Christianity being the most popular religion in the world. Or we could say they are the result of the imbalance of spiritual knowledge vs. materialism, but either way there is illness. Mike Pompeo and Mike Pence are both evangelicals for God's sake! That is telling enough to me of who is who. But if we take a look at the sickness of the modern world (results of the pan-African slave trade, a usury based economic system, exploitation, military unilateralism,... on the personal level depression, substance abuse, divorce) we're witnessing the fruits of a fragmented and inadequate religious system.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

You should have stopped here. The rest of your post is the same personal revelation we've read a thousand times. The inability of ones to hold a coherent, logic based conversation about a specific subject I find troubling. Evangelicals have a real problem talking about anything other than themselves. This is what I was saying about the level of maturity, and why in the realm of conscious seekers, mainstream Christians place themselves off in the kiddie seats while the adults in the other room talk about real life.

IMO there are negative consequences to Christianity being the most popular religion in the world. Or we could say they are the result of the imbalance of spiritual knowledge vs. materialism, but either way there is illness. Mike Pompeo and Mike Pence are both evangelicals for God's sake! That is telling enough to me of who is who. But if we take a look at the sickness of the modern world (results of the pan-African slave trade, a usury based economic system, exploitation, military unilateralism,... on the personal level depression, substance abuse, divorce) we're witnessing the fruits of a fragmented and inadequate religious system.

I think you would rather I expressed the sentiment of U2 in this song:-

The thing is @DavidSon - I have.

 

[Faker He-Man]

Analogies can also be crafted to support a narrative. One might also point out that even one change in a phone number gets you through to a completely different person @shankara

Hmm, good point. I wonder what changing our mental image of Jesus into a white European might connect us to?

https://ascensionglossary.com/index.php/Holographic_Insert

https://ascensionglossary.com/index.php/Wounds_of_Christ

 

[DavidSon]

I think you would rather I expressed the sentiment of U2 in this song:-

The thing is @DavidSon - I have.

I believe you. My personal thought is that it's great that you hold to your convictions, and I can relate to the feeling we all have of wanting to share our vision. Don't get me wrong, I acknowledge we all talk about ourselves and OUR experience of the Almighty.

Those who have found the ultimate truth of the peaks of human experience bring love and intelligence down from the mountaintop. I'm not reading the fullness of wisdom from the Christians in this thread. All I'm saying is a normal person would ignore the thread if they weren't interested, instead of using it for proselytizing. It comes across as someone very insecure in their own faith.

The simple message of @shankara was that all authentic (not satanism, scientology, etc.)spiritual practice/religion lead to the same consciousness. I truly believe this and hope you can find a way to share this understanding.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

I believe you. My personal thought is that it's great that you hold to your convictions, and I can relate to the feeling we all have of wanting to share our vision. Don't get me wrong, I acknowledge we all talk about ourselves and OUR experience of the Almighty.

Those who have found the ultimate truth of the peaks of human experience bring love and intelligence down from the mountaintop. I'm not reading the fullness of wisdom from the Christians in this thread. All I'm saying is a normal person would ignore the thread if they weren't interested, instead of using it for proselytizing. It comes across as someone very insecure in their own faith.

The simple message of @shankara was that all authentic (not satanism, scientology, etc.)spiritual practice/religion lead to the same consciousness. I truly believe this and hope you can find a way to share this understanding.

Please forgive me simply cutting and pasting this but it conveys the sentiment I want to express the most succinctly:-

Acts 17


22Then Paul stood in the midst of the Areopagus and said, “Men of Athens, I perceive that in all things you are very religious; 23for as I was passing through and considering the objects of your worship, I even found an altar with this inscription:

TO THE UNKNOWN GOD.

Therefore, the One whom you worship without knowing, Him I proclaim to you: 24God, who made the world and everything in it, since He is Lord of heaven and earth, does not dwell in temples made with hands. 25Nor is He worshiped with men’s hands, as though He needed anything, since He gives to all life, breath, and all things. 26And He has made from one blood every nation of men to dwell on all the face of the earth, and has determined their preappointed times and the boundaries of their dwellings, 27so that they should seek the Lord, in the hope that they might grope for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us; 28for in Him we live and move and have our being, as also some of your own poets have said, ‘For we are also His offspring.’

There is a kindness and an empathy in these words that is sometimes lacking when Christians interact with “seekers”.

 

[shankara]

Analogies can also be crafted to support a narrative. One might also point out that even one change in a phone number gets you through to a completely different person @shankara

I'm not sure that's a valid analogy. One could definitely see the spiritual Path as a going somewhere, and Revelations as signposts guiding us to that destination. It also seems quite intuitive to think of the different human cultures as being different places or starting points on the spiritual landscape.

Is that the same thing as telephoning someone? In that there is not a being anywhere or a going anywhere, there is just a communication. You might then very well use it as an analogy for Prayer, that would be quite sensible. In that case I would in a way agree with you, I've thought for a long time that Christians should say "Yeshua" rather than "Jesus". But I don't think it is really an appropriate analogy in the sense you use it.

Well, whatever. You can fall back on the old "human logic can't grasp the divine" thing if you like. It's interesting how you interpret that saying of Paul about "The Unknown God" in such a way, I've always had quite a different perspective. Though honestly I'm not sure that the teachings of Paul should be included in the New Testament, at least I've never found them as interesting as the Gospels.

So yeah, anyway. We keep being divided, we keep being conquered.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

So yeah, anyway. We keep being divided, we keep being conquered.

I think the issue is that many seek salvation without a saviour. Optimists of this type might seek to embrace their higher selves through Christ Consciousness. Those more aware of their sinful state might look for various forms of works based redemptions. Those who know their true spiritual condition seek Jesus.

Admit

Romans 3:10 As it is written, there is none righteous, no, not one

Romans 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God.

Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

Believe

Romans 6:23a For the wages of sin is death

Romans 6:23b but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord

Call

Romans 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us

Romans 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Romans 10:9-10 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

 

[Infinityloop]

I think the issue is that many seek salvation without a saviour.

You're the only one here that holds the view that salvation requires a savior over the One transcendent, eternal God itself.

 

[Axl888]

My theology is not the same as yours whatsoever. I do not worship names, symbols, images and idols like you do.

Alongside that I do not give your Bible even the slightest of credibility that you seem to, but I really should warn you about replying with such non-sequitors. Red Sky At Morning's dishonesty back here: https://vigilantcitizenforums.com/threads/the-one-universal-religion-of-love.6454/post-239955 is what my replies to him here are about. Got that?
https://vigilantcitizenforums.com/threads/the-one-universal-religion-of-love.6454/post-239966

Here is why you are a hypocrite and perhaps people who practice Islam, the koran acknowledges the Torah (law of Moses) as supposedly coming from allah and therefore the commandment that you just have quoted also applies to you...yet your only excuse is that your theology is different from ours? How convenient, right?

Sura 3:3 - He has sent down upon you, [O Muhammad], the Book in truth, confirming what was before it. And He revealed the Torah and the Gospel.

Sura 2:87 - And We did certainly give Moses the Torah and followed up after him with messengers. And We gave Jesus, the son of Mary, clear proofs and supported him with the Pure Spirit. But is it [not] that every time a messenger came to you, [O Children of Israel], with what your souls did not desire, you were arrogant? And a party [of messengers] you denied and another party you killed.

The Torah is for you muslims to follow since Sura 3:3 & Sura 2:87 are words of allah, and the koran says ”And none can alter the words of Allah (Sura 6:34)”.

Don't be a hypocrite.

 

[Infinityloop]

Here is why you are a hypocrite and perhaps people who practice Islam, the koran acknowledges the Torah (law of Moses) as supposedly coming from allah and therefore the commandment that you just have quoted also applies to you...yet your only excuse is that your theology is different from ours? How convenient, right?

Sura 3:3 - He has sent down upon you, [O Muhammad], the Book in truth, confirming what was before it. And He revealed the Torah and the Gospel.

Sura 2:87 - And We did certainly give Moses the Torah and followed up after him with messengers. And We gave Jesus, the son of Mary, clear proofs and supported him with the Pure Spirit. But is it [not] that every time a messenger came to you, [O Children of Israel], with what your souls did not desire, you were arrogant? And a party [of messengers] you denied and another party you killed.

The Torah is for you muslims to follow since Sura 3:3 & Sura 2:87 are words of allah, and the koran says ”And none can alter the words of Allah (Sura 6:34)”.

Don't be a hypocrite.

This has already been spoken about extensively on other threads, you shouldn't be resorting to ad hominems like this either.
You also call me a hypocrite without explaining what about, remember, I'm not a Christian, I don't share your theology. What you hold as your exclusivist worldview is yours to deal with the implications of, not me.

This is also another weird case of you changing the subject, as back here, you are supposed to be arguing about this: https://vigilantcitizenforums.com/threads/the-one-universal-religion-of-love.6454/post-239991
Yet you've switched the conversation to strawmanning me about the Torah, lmao.

Although, the following ayat suffices well enough for now:
"And We did not send any apostle but with the language of his people, so that he might explain to them clearly; then Allah makes whom He pleases err and He guides whom He pleases and He is the Mighty, the Wise."
- Surah 14:4

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

You're the only one here that holds the view that salvation requires a savior over the One transcendent, eternal God itself.

Think of the story of Abraham and Isaac - God showed Abraham the cost He was willing to give and Abraham understood the message He was given through the stars. If you reject the atonement God provided for your sins @Infinityloop you are simply going with a man made plan of salvation and hoping it works for you.

 

[Infinityloop]

you are simply going with a man made plan of salvation and hoping it works for you.

Describe it to us all in great detail, we are all listening.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

Describe it to us all in great detail, we are all listening.

I think somebody already did a better comparison than mine...

THE FORMULA OF FAITH

After a personal investigation that spanned more than six hundred days and countless hours, my own verdict in the case for Christ was clear. However, as I sat at my desk, I realized that I needed more than an intellectual decision. I wanted to take the experiential step that J. P. Moreland had described in the last interview. Looking for a way to bring that about, I reached over to a Bible and opened it to John 1: 12, a verse I had encountered during my investigation: “Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God.” The key verbs in that verse spell out with mathematical precision what it takes to go beyond mere mental assent to Jesus’ deity and enter into an ongoing relationship with him by becoming adopted into God’s family: believe + receive = become.

Believe

As someone educated in journalism and law, I was trained to respond to the facts, wherever they lead. For me, the data demonstrated convincingly that Jesus is the Son of God who died as my substitute to pay the penalty I deserved for the wrongdoing I had committed. And there was plenty of wrongdoing. I’ll spare myself the embarrassment of going into details, but the truth is that I had been living a profane, drunken, self-absorbed, and immoral lifestyle. In my career, I had backstabbed my colleagues to gain a personal advantage and had routinely violated legal and ethical standards in pursuit of stories. In my personal life, I was sacrificing my wife and children on the altar of success. I was a liar, a cheater, and a deceiver. My heart had shrunk to the point where it was rock hard toward anyone else. My main motivator was personal pleasure—and ironically, the more I hungrily sought after it, the more elusive and self-destructive it became. When I read in the Bible that these sins separated me from God, who is holy and morally pure, this resonated as being true. Certainly God, whose existence I had denied for years, seemed extremely distant, and it became obvious to me that I needed the cross of Jesus to bridge that gulf. Said the apostle Peter, “For Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God” (1 Peter 3: 18). All this I now believed. The evidence of history and of my own experience was too strong to ignore.

Receive

Every other faith system I studied during my investigation was based on the “do” plan. In other words, it was necessary for people to do something—for example, use a Tibetan prayer wheel, pay alms, go on pilgrimages, undergo reincarnations, work off karma from past misdeeds, reform their character—to try to somehow earn their way back to God. Despite their best efforts, lots of sincere people just wouldn’t make it. Christianity is unique. It’s based on the “done” plan—Jesus has done for us on the cross what we cannot do for ourselves: he has paid the death penalty that we deserve for our rebellion and wrongdoing, so we can become reconciled with God. I didn’t have to struggle and strive to try to do the impossible of making myself worthy. Over and over the Bible says that Jesus offers forgiveness and eternal life as a free gift that cannot be earned (see Rom. 6: 23; Eph. 2: 8–9; Titus 3: 5). It’s called grace—amazing grace, unmerited favor. It’s available to anyone who receives it in a sincere prayer of repentance. Even someone like me. Yes, I had to take a step of faith, as we do in every decision we make in life. But here’s the crucial distinction: I was no longer trying to swim upstream against the strong current of evidence; instead I was choosing to go in the same direction that the torrent of facts was flowing. That was reasonable, that was rational, that was logical. What’s more, in an inner and inexplicable way, it was also what I sensed God’s Spirit was nudging me to do. So on November 8, 1981, I talked with God in a heartfelt and unedited prayer, admitting and turning from my wrongdoing, and receiving the gift of forgiveness and eternal life through Jesus. I told him that with his help I wanted to follow him and his ways from here on out. There were no lightning bolts, no audible replies, no tingly sensations. I know that some people feel a rush of emotion at such a moment; as for me, however, there was something else that was equally exhilarating: there was the rush of reason.

Become

After taking that step, I knew from John 1: 12 that I had crossed the threshold into a new experience. I had become something different: a child of God, forever adopted into his family through the historical, risen Jesus. Said the apostle Paul, “Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come” (2 Cor. 5: 17). Sure enough, over time as I endeavored to follow Jesus’ teachings and open myself to his transforming power, my priorities, my values, and my character were (and continue to be) gradually changed. Increasingly I want Jesus’ motives and perspective to be my own. To paraphrase Martin Luther King Jr., I may not yet be the man I should be or the man, with Christ’s help, I someday will be—but thank God I’m not the man I used to be! Maybe that sounds mystical to you; I don’t know. Not so long ago it would have to me. But it’s very real to me now and to those around me. In fact, so radical was the difference in my life that a few months after I became a follower of Jesus, our five-year-old daughter Alison went up to my wife and said, “Mommy, I want God to do for me what he’s done for Daddy.” Here was a little girl who had only known a father who was profane, angry, verbally harsh, and all too often absent. And even though she had never interviewed a scholar, never analyzed the data, never investigated historical evidence, she had seen up close the influence that Jesus can have on one person’s life. In effect, she was saying, “If this is what God does to a human being, that’s what I want for me.” Looking back nearly two decades, I can see with clarity that the day I personally made a decision in the case for Christ was nothing less than the pivotal event of my entire life.

From Case for Christ, Lee Strobel

 

[shankara]

I think the issue is that many seek salvation without a saviour. Optimists of this type might seek to embrace their higher selves through Christ Consciousness. Those more aware of their sinful state might look for various forms of works based redemptions. Those who know their true spiritual condition seek Jesus.

Admit

Romans 3:10 As it is written, there is none righteous, no, not one

Romans 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God.

Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

Believe

Romans 6:23a For the wages of sin is death

Romans 6:23b but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord

Call

Romans 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us

Romans 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Romans 10:9-10 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

So you've put people into these neat little psychological boxes, "optimists", those who are "aware of their sinful state" but don't know their "true spiritual condition". You say that the optimists seek their "higher self", maybe this is true in some New Age things - I think the corruption of the whole New Age movement is pretty obvious - but it's far from universal. For me the "Higher Self" is a kind of satanic doctrine, divinisation of the ego. I also feel that we do need the Christ, the Inner Christ, in order to overcome ourselves. There is a kind of separation from God and there is a kind of Grace that we need, I just don't think that this means simply holding some belief, it takes spiritual work, struggle.

Perhaps this is what you would call "works based redemption". Can we attain salvation simply by some process like giving a lot of money? I don't think so. But spiritual work, work on oneself, this is not the same thing. We have to walk the path, there's no getting out of it, no convenient shortcut or magic to skip over it. When Christ says "take up thy cross and follow", it's pretty clear to me that this is what is meant.

Before you go neatly categorizing everyone according to their psychology and claiming that Christians are the only ones who understand their "true spiritual condition", perhaps try taking a look at your own psychology, the whole dualism of fear and comfort which drives such exclusivist beliefs. With a good dose of fanaticism on top.

 

[Infinityloop]

I think somebody already did a better comparison than mine...

Of course it's always 'someone else'.

Already read that book btw. I was not surprised by what I read.

So now as I asked for you to give me some detail on your reasoning here, I will ask you a second time for this.

What you have to do, is give clear rational and logical reasons for a Muslim, or a Jew, to accept not only a Man (who is concretely a historical figure, object, person, symbol, idea and idol bound to that history physically) as the only path to heaven over God itself, but also find a way to validate the idea that this Man is also himself God. Alongside this, you also have to prove to me that you are not an Atheist by claiming such a pathetic and absurd thing. Along with all of this, you have to show us, how we are the delusional or deceived ones for not accepting that a man can be God.
And yet, again, along with this, you have to debunk Vaishnavism (which has a far more superior and logical theology than yours btw), as well as refuting the various ancient Pagan religions that had god-men.

I'm all ears. Give me your best shot and I will listen intently. No links, no copypastas. Give me a genuine response, show me that I'm wrong and that you're right. I dare you, I ask you in the name of God.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

Of course it's always 'someone else'.

Already read that book btw. I was not surprised by what I read.

So now as I asked for you to give me some detail on your reasoning here, I will ask you a second time for this.

What you have to do, is give clear rational and logical reasons for a Muslim, or a Jew, to accept not only a Man (who is concretely a historical figure, object, person, symbol, idea and idol bound to that history physically) as the only path to heaven over God itself, but also find a way to validate the idea that this Man is also himself God. Alongside this, you also have to prove to me that you are not an Atheist by claiming such a pathetic and absurd thing. Along with all of this, you have to show us, how we are the delusional or deceived ones for not accepting that a man can be God.
And yet, again, along with this, you have to debunk Vaishnavism (which has a far more superior and logical theology than yours btw), as well as refuting the various ancient Pagan religions that had god-men.

I'm all ears. Give me your best shot and I will listen intently. No links, no copypastas. Give me a genuine response, show me that I'm wrong and that you're right. I dare you, I ask you in the name of God.

@Infinityloop - with respect, you are not the person to tell me how (or even if) I should answer a question. Just as I respect your individuality and free will, so God respects ours. We are ultimately free to accept or reject the work Jesus did on the cross. As the resurrection seems to be a fact that bears cross examination, a religion that denies it falls at the first logical hurdle.

On the other hand, the whole Bible, from Genesis to Revelation points to Jesus. Children learn from concrete experiences through to abstract reasoning and this is reflected in God’s progressive self-revelation. The disciples on the road to Emmaus were challenged to start from Moses and all the scriptures to understand the things concerning the Messiah, so are we.

Stephen was hauled up before the authorities for preaching Jesus. He gave perhaps the best overview of God revealed Himself to mankind, concluding in the sacrificial death of His Son.

https://www.bible.com/bible/114/ACT.7.nkjv

We stand at the same point, looking back on those types, patterns and fulfilled prophecies, in the valley of decision. Many reject Jesus, some encounter Him and are never the same.

I may not have answered you the way you wished, but it is the only answer I can give you.

 

[Infinityloop]

As the resurrection seems to be a fact that bears cross examination, a religion that denies it falls at the first logical hurdle.

Ok, start with this. What is the logical hurdle that Judaism and Islam (as well as any other religion) don't pass, which you think Christianity does?