The New (Im)moral Majority - the "Secular Democrats of America"

Alanantic

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That's the No True Scotsman logical fallacy. There is no justification for morality without God other than the no true scotsman. eg "No true human would do that!" I wouldn't do it because humans just don't do that!. Yeah thats a logical fallacy. In the materialist/empiracist/sceptic paradigm, there is no justification for morality, just like there's no justification for logic, purpose, the self, causality, etc, because none of these things come from sensory perception. I understand you believe in some form of spirit or intelligent principle but don't like to call it God perhaps. But without that, yes there's no basis for morality at all, if we are just monkeys
How many times do you people need to hear this. We're not monkeys!! We have the same ancestor! We also have a common ancestor with a banana.

"No true Scotsman, or appeal to purity, is an informal fallacy in which one attempts to protect their universal generalization from a counterexample in an ad hoc fashion by tautologically excluding the counterexample.[1][2][3] Rather than abandoning the universal generalization or providing evidence that would disqualify the counterexample, this fallacy involves offering a modified generalization to definitionally exclude the desired specific case and counterexamples like it by appeal to rhetoric as opposed to an objective criterion.[4] This rhetoric takes the form of emotionally charged but nonsubstantive purity platitudes such as ‘‘true, pure, genuine, authentic, real, etc " -- Wiki

As you can see, nothing I said has anything to do with that. You got some iron age God on your shoulder. I've got Jiminy Cricket. I'm quite happy!
 
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We care about about not only ourselves, but the human tribe in general
This is no true scotsman. "We're just like that!" "No true human would care only for themselves!". No, that's a fallacy. There are lots of people who do care only about themselves, and not the human tribe in general. Its extremely common actually. So that is no basis or justification for morality.

You got some iron age God on your shoulder. I've got Jiminy Cricket. I'm quite happy!
It's more that you've got the remnants of Biblical morality which have been engrained in your culture for thousands of years, and now you strip away the root of that system, God, and believe the rest of the moral principles which stem from that can stay in tact. You quote Biblical morality, that caring for others and not just ourselves is right, as if that is self evident. It's not at all. And if you believe it is absolute morality that you're experiencing, not just social conditioning from your culture, then why not go to other cultures where biblical morality does not flourish and tell them they're doing it wrong by not listening to their conscience? Go to China, India, Pakistan, African tribes, where they have a completely different morality and ask them why aren't they just listening to their conscience, which is supposed to tell them the social norms which arose from Biblical morality.
 

The Agrarian

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I'm as human as you...unfortunately. We're social primates. We care about about not only ourselves, but the human tribe in general. I can understand the feelings of others. I have a conscience. You have the fucking audacity to think I'm some brutish animal that only obeys it's deepest instinct.
My question was not disingenuous. If mankind is exactly as atheists say we are there is no practical reason to adhere to any sense of morality.

A conscience as you decribe (where/Who did that come from?) is a detriment to one's own survival if we are working from a worldview where we are just matter+energy.

My question still stands: what is your standard for judging morality? Feelings and perceptions can be skewed and are exceptionally fallible with no merit to criticize the any other system.
 
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Alanantic

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My question was not disingenuous. If mankind is exactly as atheists say we are there no practical reason to adhere to any sense of morality.

A conscience as you decribe (where/Who did that come from?) is a detriment to one's own survival if we are working from a worldview where we are just matter+energy.
My question still stands: what is your standard for judging morality? Feelings and perceptions can be skewed and are exceptionally fallible with no merit to criticize the any other system.
My rationale is the same; a conscience. My morals have developed in spite of my Christian upbringing. You may want to say (your)God gave me that. So what? He also gave me old age. Oh, and he also told me he loves gays. :)
 

The Agrarian

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My rationale is the same; a conscience. My morals have developed in spite of my Christian upbringing. You may want to say (your)God gave me that. So what? He also gave me old age. Oh, and he also told me he loves gays. :)
Aaaand /thread.
You can't answer any of our questions in an educated manner and instead clap-back like a hormonal teenage girl.

And what middle-aged man with grey hair blames their religious parents? That is some angsty high-school shit.
 

Alanantic

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Aaaand /thread.
You can't answer any of our questions in an educated manner and instead clap-back like a hormonal teenage girl.

And what middle-aged man with grey hair blames their religious parents? That is some angsty high-school shit yo.
yeah, well...you mother wears combat boots! :p
 

Alanantic

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I think we need another opinion. C'mon, who here knows who's being the most childish?
 

Hubert

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So you share ancestry with dogs and lizards?
We all share that ancestry, you just don't believe it.
Point blank, the proofs of God are vastly numerous, uncountable.
No they aren't. There literally isn't one.
Imagine seeing Moses split the Red sea miles across or Jesus giving life to clay pigeons. Imagine a man saying the moon will split in 2.. and then it does. Truth is people have seen these miracles in the flesh and still refused to believe. "Magic" they said.
None of those things happened. The moon, quite obviously, hasn't split in two.
Clearly you are the "voice of reason" here so I'll just let you enjoy until you reach the grave. Sadly, this is your heaven.
The sad part is that you view this life as a waiting room for something greater. It stops you from seeing the world as the beautiful accident that it is. We are both going to end up in the same grave, there will be nothing for either of us. The difference is what we do with the only time we get. I choose to live a life I am proud of. You cling to myths and try to please a being that exist only in your mind.
 

Hubert

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The final aim or peak of evolution is to spiritually evolve so that when our squishy bodies die, our souls transcend into purely spiritual beings and go to that great paradise in the sky, it's an idea that's been used in sci-fi for years..:)

"So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable...it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.. flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God,
in the twinkling of an eye the dead shall be raised imperishable and we shall be changed" (Bible: 1 Cor 15:42-52)

That's not evolution, that's science fiction. With the emphasis firmly on fiction.
 

Hubert

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Atheist logic.

Here's a bonus for you, literally uploaded 2 days ago.
When you have no ideas post a video.

First video, gross oversimplification. Legos, do not have a way to make copies of themselves. Living things and proteins do that all the time.

I'm not watching an hour long video telling me that the moon has split when it very obviously hasn't.
 

Daze

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When you have no ideas post a video.

First video, gross oversimplification. Legos, do not have a way to make copies of themselves. Living things and proteins do that all the time.

I'm not watching an hour long video telling me that the moon has split when it very obviously hasn't.
I got plenty of ideas, but i know when to pick my battles. As i said, there are 1000's of proofs of God. I could list 100 and you'd come back with an immediate reply (like you have just done) doing no contemplation what so ever trying to refute me. You can't reach a mind that was never open to begin with.

Oversimplification? Not at all, whats more complex, A lego model or a human being? The video requires thought and reflection while you consider yourself the intellectual amongst us. Don't seem to be capable of such feats.

Such as this 5 inch fish at the bottom of the sea creating complex geometric designs.

Clearly there is a Designer. But if you're incapable of thought and reflection, why would i waste my valuble time? I have zero interest in debates. End of the day i don't care what you believe because its not putting me into the eternal fire.


It stops you from seeing the world as the beautiful accident that it is
"The worldly life is nothing but an illusionary enjoyment." (3:185 Quran)

You can firmly believe our end is in the grave. I'll be there when we both rise from it.
 

Tidal

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The final aim or peak of evolution is to spiritually evolve so that when our squishy bodies die, our souls transcend into purely spiritual beings and go to that great paradise in the sky, it's an idea that's been used in sci-fi for years..:)

"So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable...it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.. flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God,
in the twinkling of an eye the dead shall be raised imperishable and we shall be changed" (Bible: 1 Cor 15:42-52)
That's not evolution, that's science fiction. With the emphasis firmly on fiction.

Remember, heaven/paradise is a purely spiritual place, and the only way for us to enter is to become purely spiritual beings ourselves-
"In the twinkling of an eye the dead shall be raised imperishable and we shall be changed" (1 Cor 15:52)

To get in we have to lock onto Jesus-
"Thomas said to him, “Lord, we don’t know where you are going, so how can we know the way?”
Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me" (John 14:2/6)
 

Alanantic

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If thats who you worship, then follow him.
I don't "worship" anything. Buddha considered it a waste of time, and I agree. No, I don't worship Buddha. Here's the reason:

"Don't get attached to what I say, don't get attached to any doctrine, to what I preach; don't get attached to my personality. These are all just fingers pointing to the moon. Forget me, don't start worshiping me; just look at the moon. And once you have looked at the moon, I don't matter at all." -- Buddha
 
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