The Nation of Israel

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Some religions claim that Israel, as establishing itself in 1948 as a nation was not of God. (they are wrong though) For the Prophecies in Dan. 7:27 ( the confirming of a covenant with Israel) and the overspreading of abominations, bringing the second half of the seven weeks (The great Tribulation) in Matt. 24:21 would not be possible.
In order for their to be a Jewish temple that would exist during the Tribulation, (Matt. 24:15-16 and 2 Thes. 2:4) Israel would have to be established as a nation and have Jerusalem as their capital. To be clear, Israel at this time still remains in unbelief. But according to Joel 2:28-29, A Spiritual awakening will eventually occur.
Israel (The nation) Will have it own judgment by God.

  • Regathered Israel is to be Judged.
  • Time: After the Glorious appearing of our Lord Jesus
  • Place: The wilderness of Judea
  • Results: Some will be prevented from entering the land; The others will be blessed there (Ps. 50:1-21; Ezek. 20:33-44)
The following facts about these passages are obvious:
  1. Those judged (Israel alone)
  2. The time (when, "our God shall come.")
  3. The Judgment ( The sifting of profession) Ps. 50:16-22
  4. The results (punishment of the rejected by their exclusion from the land and millennial blessing) Ezek. 20:38. As in every age, the salvation of the individual will depend upon his acceptance as the Lord Jesus as Israel's Messiah and the only Savior.
There are 7 judgments in Scripture. The Judgment of Israel is just one of them.
 

phipps

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The Former and Latter Rain

The prophet Joel predicted a special outpouring of the prophetic gift just prior to Christ's return:

"And it shall come to pass afterward that I will pour out My Spirit on all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions; and also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out My Spirit. And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth; blood and fire and pillars of smoke. The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and terrible day of the Lord come" (Joel 2:28-31).

Pentecost saw a remarkable manifestation of the Spirit. Peter, citing Joel's prophecy, pointed out that God had promised such blessings (Acts 2:21). However, Joel's prophecy did not reach complete fulfillment at Pentecost, as the "great and terrible day of the Lord" is a reference to the Second Coming of Christ.

Pentecost, then, was a foretaste of the full manifestation of the Spirit before the Second Advent. Like Palestine's early rain, which fell in the autumn shortly after the crops were planted, the outpouring of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost is the spiritual early rain, which was to nurture the fledgling Church. The complete and final fulfillment of Joel's prophecy corresponds to the latter rain, which, falling in the spring, ripened the grain (Joel 2:23). Likewise, the final bestowal of God's Spirit will take place just before the Second Advent after the predicted signs in the sun, moon, and stars:

"The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and terrible day of the LORD come" (Joel 2:31, see also Matthew 24:29; Revelation 6:12-17)

Like the latter rain, this final outpouring of the Spirit will ripen the harvest of the earth (Matthew 13:30, 39), and "whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved" (Joel 2:32).

Joel's prophecy regarding the darkening of the sun and the falling of the stars was fulfilled in the unexplained Dark Day of New England of May 19, 1780. Then, on November 13, 1833, the world witnessed the greatest meteoric event in recorded history when meteors lit up the sky, falling at an estimated rate of 200,000 per hour.
 

phipps

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Does the Jewish temple need to be rebuilt before Jesus returns?

With the constant turmoil always threatening stability in the Middle East, many Bible commentators are speculating louder than ever about whether the Jewish temple will be rebuilt in the months and years to come. Entire Christian ministries are established to assist in the building of the temple to hasten the return of Jesus. For many, such an event will signal the start of the final events of earth’s history.

However, in the same way many Christians misplace the focus from spiritual Israel to the literal Jewish nation, they are also confused on the subject of the temple. Most of the speculation for a rebuilt temple springs from a vague reference in 2 Thessalonians 2 dealing with the Antichrist power: “That day shall not come … [until] that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God” (vs. 3, 4).

Many say that for the Antichrist to sit in the temple, it will obviously have to be rebuilt.

Those who support this belief are known as Christian Zionists, and they include such popular writers as Hal Lindsey, Tim LaHaye, and John Hagee. Their published book sales exceed 70 million copies—including the popular Left Behind series. Their beliefs are endorsed by some of the largest theological colleges and institutions.

But are they correct? To begin, let’s go to 1 Chronicles 17:11, 12: “It shall come to pass ... that I will raise up thy seed after thee, which shall be of thy sons; and I will establish his kingdom. He shall build me an house, and I will stablish his throne for ever.” This prophecy given to King David says his offspring will build the temple. Later, in 1 Chronicles 28:6, God reaffirms, “Solomon thy son, he shall build my house and my courts.”

But this text is also one of the clearest examples of a dual prophecy found in Scripture. Dual prophecies have both a physical and spiritual fulfillment. Indeed, Solomon, the son of David, built the physical temple. But this prophecy also applies spiritually to Jesus, the true “Son of David,” who is to build a temple and kingdom that will last forever.

Jesus’ prophecy that the pride of the Jewish nation, the temple, would be destroyed inspired the most intense rejection of His teachings. (See Matthew 24:1, 2.) In John 2:19, Jesus says, “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.” Of course, Jesus is speaking of rebuilding a temple—not of stone and nails, but of living stones (1 Peter 2:5). Yet many refused to grasp this teaching (John 2:20, 21). They even mocked Jesus on the cross regarding His prophecy (Matthew 27:40).

Yet when Jesus died, the veil in the earthly temple ripped in two from the top to bottom, signifying that the temple no longer held meaning. A temple for sacrifice today would be as useless as it was then, and it would not be the house of God.

The New Testament is replete with the idea that the temple is the body of Jesus. Ephesians 2:19–22 says, “Ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God: And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.” (See also 1 Peter 2:5.)

Even after God provides all this clear evidence that His temple is a spiritual one, many Christians are waiting for the Jews to receive a construction permit to rebuild a physical temple on the site where a Muslim mosque now sits. However, there is no prophecy, promise, or commandment in the Bible that says the physical temple would ever be rebuilt after the Romans razed it nearly 2,000 years ago.
 
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Joel's prophecy regarding the darkening of the sun and the falling of the stars was fulfilled in the unexplained Dark Day of New England of May 19, 1780. Then, on November 13, 1833, the world witnessed the greatest meteoric event in recorded history when meteors lit up the sky, falling at an estimated rate of 200,000 per hour.
The meteor shower happens every years around November 17 and 18.

  • The famous Leonid meteor shower is expected to be at its best this weekend, in the predawn hours on Saturday, November 17, and Sunday, November 18. We give the nod to Saturday, November 17, because there will be less moonlight to intrude on the show. To see the optimum number of meteors, no matter where you live on the globe, try watching after moonset but before dawn.
    Click here to find out when the waxing gibbous moon sets in your sky, remembering to check the Moonrise and moonset box. From most places around the world, the moon should set soon enough after midnight to provide several hours of moon-free viewing before the onset of dawn.
    Will you see what’s shown on the image at the top of this post? Thousands of meteors per hour? No. That image is from 1998, when the Leonids parent comet – Comet Temple-Tuttle – was nearby. The Leonids are famous for producing meteor storms when the comet is in our neighborhood, but no meteor storm is expected this year, only a modest 10 to 15 Leonid meteors per hour.
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Image at top: A wide angle view of Leonid fireballs on November 17, 1998 via Juraj Toth.
The famous Leonid meteor shower is expected to be at its best this weekend, in the predawn hours on Saturday, November 17, and Sunday, November 18. We give the nod to Saturday, November 17, because there will be less moonlight to intrude on the show. To see the optimum number of meteors, no matter where you live on the globe, try watching after moonset but before dawn.
Click here to find out when the waxing gibbous moon sets in your sky, remembering to check the Moonrise and moonset box. From most places around the world, the moon should set soon enough after midnight to provide several hours of moon-free viewing before the onset of dawn.
Will you see what’s shown on the image at the top of this post? Thousands of meteors per hour? No. That image is from 1998, when the Leonids parent comet – Comet Temple-Tuttle – was nearby. The Leonids are famous for producing meteor storms when the comet is in our neighborhood, but no meteor storm is expected this year, only a modest 10 to 15 Leonid meteors per hour.

Radiant of the Leonid meteor shower near the star Algeiba in the constellation Leo.
Here’s a tip: be aware of the rising time of the shower’s radiant point. As darkness falls in mid-November, the radiant point of the Leonid shower sits below your horizon, as seen from all parts of Earth. As the Earth turns, the constellation Leo the Lion – carrying the meteor shower radiant point – will rise over your eastern horizon around midnight (or around 1 a.m. at temperate latitudes in the Southern Hemisphere).
The Leonid meteors are few and far between around midnight, when the radiant point is at or near the horizon.
But the constellation Leo the Lion will climb upward in the sky during the hours after midnight. It reaches its highest point in the night sky just before dawn. That’s why you’ll see more meteors in the predawn sky. The higher that Leo appears in your sky, the more meteors that you’re likely to see.
Just remember, you don’t have to locate a meteor shower radiant to watch the meteor shower. The meteors will appear in all parts of the sky. But if you trace the Leonid meteors backward, they appear to come from the constellation .
All is not lost in the evening hours, by the way! Evening is the best time to try to catch a rare earthgrazer – a slow-moving and long-lasting meteor that travels horizontally across the sky.
EarthSky lunar calendars make great gifts for astronomy-minded friends and family.
What else can you see on the night of the 2018 Leonids peak?
The radiant for the Leonids is near the star Algieba in Leo. This is not Leo the Lion’s brightest star. That distinction goes to Leo’s star Regulus. Both Algieba and Regulus belong to a noticeable pattern on the sky’s dome, in the shape of a backwards question mark. This pattern is called “the Sickle.” The paths of Leonid meteors can be traced backwards to the Sickle pattern, which is a famous asterism – or noticeable star pattern – within the constellation Leo.
Watch for both of these stars. And, during the predawn/dawn hours, look for Venus, the sky’s brightest planet, to beam mightily in the southeast sky.
By the way, the Leonids are a fast-moving meteor stream. The meteors hit the Earth’s atmosphere at some 45 miles per second (72 km/second)! The Leonid meteor shower is known for having bright meteors or fireballs, which can punch into the atmosphere with the kinetic energy of a car hitting at 60 miles per second (nearly 100 km/second).
Bottom line: In 2018, the Leonid meteor shower is expected to be at its best before dawn on Saturday, November 17, and Sunday, November 18. Usually the most meteors fall in the dark hours before dawn.
EarthSky’s top 10 tips for meteor-watchers
EarthSky’s meteor shower guide for 2018
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Deborah Byrd
Deborah Byrd

Deborah Byrd created the EarthSky radio series in 1991 and founded EarthSky.org in 1994. Today, she serves as Editor-in-Chief of this website. She has won a galaxy of awards from the broadcasting and science communities, including having an asteroid named 3505 Byrd in her honor. A science communicator and educator since 1976, Byrd believes in science as a force for good in the world and a vital tool for the 21st century. "Being an EarthSky editor is like hosting a big global party for cool nature-lovers," she says.
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Daniel 7 prophecy was about Titus...the Roman empire. The destruction of the second temple.
When Jesus spoke in Matthew 24 he literally spoke of the existing temple.being destroyed.
 

phipps

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The meteor shower was different plus its timing is important too.

When did end times begin?

We are living in what the Old Testament calls the "time of the end," a period just before the Second Coming of Christ. Daniel uses the phrase five times in chapters 8-12, and tells us that the period would arise at a very specific time appointed by God.

"And some of those of understanding shall fall, to refine them, purify them, and make them white, until the time of the end; because it is still for the appointed time" (Daniel 11:35 emphasis added).


How do we know that era of the end times has begun?

Daniel 7:25 tells us about the period of papal dominance, which was 1260 years long:

"And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time."

Daniel 12:6-7 uses the same time period to explain when the end times would be. With the completion of the 1260-year period of papal dominion in 1798, the time of the end began.

During the era of papal dominance, the truth about Christ and His Gospel were trampled on—"great words" were spoken "against the most High." However, Daniel 12:4 tells us that the beginning of the time of the end also signifies the restoration of those truths:

"But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book even to the time of the end; many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased."

Daniel also had a vision in which he was told that the sanctuary would be cleansed after 2300 days. Daniel himself did not understand this vision, nor did he fully understand what would unfold during the time of the end. This is because the prophecy was sealed until the time of the end, as we just read in Daniel 12:4.

In the Hebrew, the definite article is given with the word "knowledge," indicating that knowledge of the book of Daniel itself will be increased at the time of the end. If the time of the end has begun, then knowledge must have already increased, and Daniel's prophecy must have been unsealed. Has this happened?


Increasing Knowledge

In Psalm 119:98-99, we read, "Thou through thy commandments hast made me wiser than my enemies: for they are ever with me. I have more understanding than all my teachers, for thy testimonies are my meditation."

Understanding comes from obedience to God’s law (Psalm 119:100,104) and to God's testimony—His Word spoken through the prophets of all ages (Psalm 119:125,130,144). If truth is to be restored, then knowledge and understanding of the Biblical concept of truth is essential.

Three definitions of truth are given in the Scriptures:

"I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father but by me" (John 14:6).

"Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth" (John 17:17).

"Thou art near, O LORD; and all thy commandments are truth" (Psalm 119:151).

Truth restored contains all these elements. It is Christ-centered, Word-based, and involves obedience to God’s law.

According to the book of Daniel, the time of the end will include an increase of knowledge and unveiling of Daniel's sealed prophecies. History confirms that a great resurgence of interest in the Scriptures, accompanied by missionary zeal, began around 1798—the beginning of the end times.
 
Last edited:
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Daniel 7 prophecy was about Titus...the Roman empire. The destruction of the second temple.
When Jesus spoke in Matthew 24 he literally spoke of the existing temple.being destroyed.
Luke describes The 70 AD destruction. Matthew goes beyond to the end times. Revelations was revealed in 90 AD and parallels to Matthew 24:4-8. Compare with Revelation Chapter 6.
 

phipps

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Luke describes The 70 AD destruction. Matthew goes beyond to the end times. Revelations was revealed in 90 AD and parallels to Matthew 24:4-8. Compare with Revelation Chapter 6.
I know Luke describes the 70 AD destruction. Which chapter of Matthew goes beyond the end times and show me proof of the parallels between Revelations and Matthew 24:4-8 and where the 90AD comes from. Can you elaborate more on that?
 
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phipps

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I posted this in the Red Heifer Birth Paves Way For Renewed Temple Service forum but I think its needed here too.

Red Heifer or Red Herring?

Some are teaching that a perfect red heifer must be born in order to pave the way to rebuild the temple in Jerusalem. One organization is even collecting funds to genetically create and raise such a heifer. But what does the Bible tell us about God’s temple?

The Temple Institute is an organization in Jerusalem raising money to prepare for the construction of a new Jewish temple. It is attempting to recreate temple vessels, a high priest’s breastplate, and even musical instruments for a Levitical choir. But they believe that in order to create a so-called state of purity to usher in the coming of the Messiah, the laws of purification found in Leviticus 19 must be followed. These rituals originally involved a red heifer, ashes, and the cleansing of people and objects that have had contact with a dead body.

Christian Zionists, those who encourage the return of Jews to Israel, support the rebuilding of a temple in Jerusalem since they believe it is a fulfillment of Bible prophecy. One of the early teachers of this doctrine, called dispensationalism, was John Nelson Darby. A literalistic understanding of a new temple is taken from the following:

“Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God” (2 Thessalonians 2:3, 4, emphasis supplied).

Must a literal temple be rebuilt on the original site of the temple mount in Jerusalem? Does a perfect red heifer need to be sacrificed in order for the Messiah to return to our earth? Will the “man of sin” (the antichrist) sit in a building in Jerusalem in order for “that Day” to come? It sounds plausible to many, but what does the Bible say about a true Israelite and the true temple of God?

The New Testament teaches that the name Israel points no longer points to a nation, but to Jesus Christ and to His followers, and regardless of ethnicity. “There is neither Jew nor Greek ... for you are all one in Christ Jesus. And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise” (Galatians 3:28, 29). All true Christians are now God’s “spiritual Israel.” In fact, the apostle Paul boldly says, “For they are not all Israel who are of Israel” (Romans 9:6).

The devil has misdirected the focus of many from spiritual Israel (God’s church) to the literal building of a temple in Jerusalem. But Christ referred to the temple as His own body in John 2:19–21. In fact, He later prophesied, “See! Your house is left to you desolate” (Matthew 23:38). What now is the true temple? It is the body of Christ, the church, of which people are made. “If anyone defiles the temple of God, God will destroy him. For the temple of God is holy, which temple you are” (1 Corinthians 3:17; see also Ephesians 2:19–22 and 1 Peter 2:5).

Must a red heifer be sacrificed in a literal temple in Jerusalem for the antichrist to be revealed? In truth the antichrist power will seat itself over the church of God claiming the worship that belongs only to Jesus Christ. Let us turn our eyes away from the earthly Jerusalem below and lift our sights to the heavenly Jerusalem above, “to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speakers better things than that of Abel” (Hebrews 12:22–24)


The original sanctuary (temple) and its artifacts, rituals, and sacrificial ceremonies were types or shadows that pointed to the real Messiah and Lamb of God who would come to fulfill, in Himself, all that these things. Of this temple it can be said that it was "the temple of God," in a literal or physical sense.

When Jesus died He put an end to the need for that sanctuary of types and shadows. This is demonstrated in the very events that took place at His death such as the lamb escaping from the altar and the curtain in the temple being torn. This is also seen in the declarations Christ made to the Jewish leaders, especially in light of the fact that they did not want to accept Him as the Messiah and finally decreed His death. He told them, "your house is left unto you desolate." He declared to the disciples that not one stone of the temple would be left upon another (Matthew 23:38; 24:1-2).

In light of these considerations one has to reconsider the statement by Paul in 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4. A newly built temple cannot, in any sense of the word, be called "the temple of God." In fact, the erection of such an temple and the reintroduction of sacrificial rites would be blasphemy against the completed work and present priestly ministry of Christ in the heavenly sanctuary.
 
Last edited:
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Luke describes The 70 AD destruction. Matthew goes beyond to the end times. Revelations was revealed in 90 AD and parallels to Matthew 24:4-8. Compare with Revelation Chapter 6.
the stuff that revelationed revealed was new....outside the contexts of daniel 7/9 and matthew 24 prophecies.
although dan 2 does touch on it ie the feet of iron and clay.

everything else where christians misinterpret daniel 11 prophecies and apply them to a modernised contet is wrong. im sorry but its a fact that christians keep doing this.
you guys keep on adding islam to it and reff to the tribulation.

the only one thats relevant to israel is the fall of mystery babylon
were talking about a total planned collapse of the economic system in a post euphrates war context too.
 

elsbet

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Joel's prophecy regarding the darkening of the sun and the falling of the stars was fulfilled in the unexplained Dark Day of New England of May 19, 1780. Then, on November 13, 1833, the world witnessed the greatest meteoric event in recorded history when meteors lit up the sky, falling at an estimated rate of 200,000 per hour.
I'm more than a little skeptical, especially of that very localized event. There is too much missing, anyway, in these very separate events.


And when I saw the Lamb open the sixth seal, there was a great earthquake, and the sun became black like sackcloth of goat hair, and the whole moon turned blood red, and the stars of the sky fell to the earth, like unripe figs dropping from a tree shaken by a great wind. The sky receded like a scroll being rolled up, and every mountain and island was moved from its place.… REV 6 13
 

Red Sky at Morning

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the stuff that revelationed revealed was new....outside the contexts of daniel 7/9 and matthew 24 prophecies.
although dan 2 does touch on it ie the feet of iron and clay.

everything else where christians misinterpret daniel 11 prophecies and apply them to a modernised contet is wrong. im sorry but its a fact that christians keep doing this.
you guys keep on adding islam to it and reff to the tribulation.

the only one thats relevant to israel is the fall of mystery babylon
were talking about a total planned collapse of the economic system in a post euphrates war context too.
It seems more than a coincidence to note that the event you term the "Euphrates War" has parallels (though different outcomes) to Isaiah 17, Psalms 83 and Ezekiel 38. As many people have noticed in the Bible, there is a talk of "Peace and safety" then "sudden destruction". Just in case the exit of the believers in Jesus occurs before what you describe as the "Euphrates War", you may find this information valuable.


I doubt you will give it any credence at present as it doesn't fit within your current paradigm, but maybe there will come a point when you review this alternate perspective.
 
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Ezekiel 38/39 detail the Gog & Magog invasion which in the book of Revelation is during the messianic era.
Revelation foretold the euphrates war to occur even before the anti-christ, even before the destruction of mystery babylon, in Revelation 9
I believe the euphrates war is on the cards ie it is coming...but you are off the mark here.


Isaiah 17 is about Damascus during the Assyrian empire era...it is historical and has no future context.

In that day the strong cities of Aram and Israel will be like deserted places in the forest,
Or like branches which they abandoned before the children of Israel;
And the land will be a desolation.

past context entirely.

2 Kings 16:9
The king of Assyria complied by attacking Damascus and capturing it. He deported its inhabitants to Kir and put Rezin to death.


that's why, it says
In that day the strong cities of Aram and Israel will be like deserted places in the forest,
israel was also destroyed by the Assyrians.

better yet, someone has already covered this
https://adammaarschalk.com/2013/09/08/the-bible-does-not-teach-that-damascus-syria-is-about-to-be-destroyed-2/
 

Red Sky at Morning

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ok i only found that last link from a google search
Just browsing the site and found this

https://adammaarschalk.com/2015/05/02/the-great-city-babylonshall-not-be-found-anymore-revelation-18/
What a guy

So he's presented the same conclusion I have, with points i'd completely overlooked.
Truthfully, if you were to look at it "scientifically", you could say the two differing views we hold are theories. I suspect experimental evidence is not far away and we might have to re-evaluate those theories in the light of events?
 
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Jun 1, 2018
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1,185
I know Luke describes the 70 AD destruction. Which chapter of Matthew goes beyond the end times and show me proof of the parallels between Revelations and Matthew 24:4-8 and where the 90AD comes from. Can you elaborate more on that?
It's simple. Revelation was written in 90 AD, 20 years after the destruction of the temple. Matthew 24:4-5 False Christ = Rev. 6: 1-2 White horse. Wars against nations, famine, Matt. 24:6-8 + Rev. 6:3-13 The Red, Black and Pale horses. Revelation 6:1-22:21 is of a detailed explanation of Christ summary of Matthew Chapter 24 and 25 and is yet future before His return. Luke 21:20-24 are not included in the Matthew Olivet Discourse. The Jews were scattered all over to other nations (which is what happened). The Olivet Discourse goes beyond and is described in Revelation 20 years later. Quit following men's religion and carnal reasoning (you must be born again. Have you ever asked the Lord (personally) to show you the Truth? There will be a change in your life. The world hates us, It also hated Christ! (John 15:18) And false prophets hate us also! Since Christ has not returned yet, all is yet future in Matthew and Revelation's
 
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Messages
1,185
the stuff that revelationed revealed was new....outside the contexts of daniel 7/9 and matthew 24 prophecies.
although dan 2 does touch on it ie the feet of iron and clay.

everything else where christians misinterpret daniel 11 prophecies and apply them to a modernised contet is wrong. im sorry but its a fact that christians keep doing this.
you guys keep on adding islam to it and reff to the tribulation.

the only one thats relevant to israel is the fall of mystery babylon
were talking about a total planned collapse of the economic system in a post euphrates war context too.
You can explain your views to the Lord at the Judgment....I don't believe them.
 

TokiEl

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Dec 13, 2017
Messages
7,239
I posted this in the Red Heifer Birth Paves Way For Renewed Temple Service forum but I think its needed here too.

https://www.amazingfacts.org/news-and-features/af-blog/article/id/11897/t/red-heifer-or-red-herring-
Red Heifer or Red Herring?

Some are teaching that a perfect red heifer must be born in order to pave the way to rebuild the temple in Jerusalem. One organization is even collecting funds to genetically create and raise such a heifer. But what does the Bible tell us about God’s temple?

The Temple Institute is an organization in Jerusalem raising money to prepare for the construction of a new Jewish temple. It is attempting to recreate temple vessels, a high priest’s breastplate, and even musical instruments for a Levitical choir. But they believe that in order to create a so-called state of purity to usher in the coming of the Messiah, the laws of purification found in Leviticus 19 must be followed. These rituals originally involved a red heifer, ashes, and the cleansing of people and objects that have had contact with a dead body.

Christian Zionists, those who encourage the return of Jews to Israel, support the rebuilding of a temple in Jerusalem since they believe it is a fulfillment of Bible prophecy. One of the early teachers of this doctrine, called dispensationalism, was John Nelson Darby. A literalistic understanding of a new temple is taken from the following:

“Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God” (2 Thessalonians 2:3, 4, emphasis supplied).

Must a literal temple be rebuilt on the original site of the temple mount in Jerusalem? Does a perfect red heifer need to be sacrificed in order for the Messiah to return to our earth? Will the “man of sin” (the antichrist) sit in a building in Jerusalem in order for “that Day” to come? It sounds plausible to many, but what does the Bible say about a true Israelite and the true temple of God?

The New Testament teaches that the name Israel points no longer points to a nation, but to Jesus Christ and to His followers, and regardless of ethnicity. “There is neither Jew nor Greek ... for you are all one in Christ Jesus. And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise” (Galatians 3:28, 29). All true Christians are now God’s “spiritual Israel.” In fact, the apostle Paul boldly says, “For they are not all Israel who are of Israel” (Romans 9:6).

The devil has misdirected the focus of many from spiritual Israel (God’s church) to the literal building of a temple in Jerusalem. But Christ referred to the temple as His own body in John 2:19–21. In fact, He later prophesied, “See! Your house is left to you desolate” (Matthew 23:38). What now is the true temple? It is the body of Christ, the church, of which people are made. “If anyone defiles the temple of God, God will destroy him. For the temple of God is holy, which temple you are” (1 Corinthians 3:17; see also Ephesians 2:19–22 and 1 Peter 2:5).

Must a red heifer be sacrificed in a literal temple in Jerusalem for the antichrist to be revealed? In truth the antichrist power will seat itself over the church of God claiming the worship that belongs only to Jesus Christ. Let us turn our eyes away from the earthly Jerusalem below and lift our sights to the heavenly Jerusalem above, “to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speakers better things than that of Abel” (Hebrews 12:22–24)

http://amazingdiscoveries.org/AD-newsletter-spring-2008-Nation_and_Temple2
The original sanctuary (temple) and its artifacts, rituals, and sacrificial ceremonies were types or shadows that pointed to the real Messiah and Lamb of God who would come to fulfill, in Himself, all that these things. Of this temple it can be said that it was "the temple of God," in a literal or physical sense.

When Jesus died He put an end to the need for that sanctuary of types and shadows. This is demonstrated in the very events that took place at His death such as the lamb escaping from the altar and the curtain in the temple being torn. This is also seen in the declarations Christ made to the Jewish leaders, especially in light of the fact that they did not want to accept Him as the Messiah and finally decreed His death. He told them, "your house is left unto you desolate." He declared to the disciples that not one stone of the temple would be left upon another (Matthew 23:38; 24:1-2).

In light of these considerations one has to reconsider the statement by Paul in 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4. A newly built temple cannot, in any sense of the word, be called "the temple of God." In fact, the erection of such an temple and the reintroduction of sacrificial rites would be blasphemy against the completed work and present priestly ministry of Christ in the heavenly sanctuary.

You forgot to give a link or source to your perfect copypaste post.
 

TokiEl

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The meteor shower was different plus its timing is important too.

https://www.amazingfacts.org/news-and-features/af-blog/article/id/11897/t/red-heifer-or-red-herring-
When did end times begin?

We are living in what the Old Testament calls the "time of the end," a period just before the Second Coming of Christ. Daniel uses the phrase five times in chapters 8-12, and tells us that the period would arise at a very specific time appointed by God.

"And some of those of understanding shall fall, to refine them, purify them, and make them white, until the time of the end; because it is still for the appointed time" (Daniel 11:35 emphasis added).


How do we know that era of the end times has begun?

Daniel 7:25 tells us about the period of papal dominance, which was 1260 years long:

"And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time."

Daniel 12:6-7 uses the same time period to explain when the end times would be. With the completion of the 1260-year period of papal dominion in 1798, the time of the end began.

During the era of papal dominance, the truth about Christ and His Gospel were trampled on—"great words" were spoken "against the most High." However, Daniel 12:4 tells us that the beginning of the time of the end also signifies the restoration of those truths:

"But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book even to the time of the end; many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased."

Daniel also had a vision in which he was told that the sanctuary would be cleansed after 2300 days. Daniel himself did not understand this vision, nor did he fully understand what would unfold during the time of the end. This is because the prophecy was sealed until the time of the end, as we just read in Daniel 12:4.

In the Hebrew, the definite article is given with the word "knowledge," indicating that knowledge of the book of Daniel itself will be increased at the time of the end. If the time of the end has begun, then knowledge must have already increased, and Daniel's prophecy must have been unsealed. Has this happened?


Increasing Knowledge

In Psalm 119:98-99, we read, "Thou through thy commandments hast made me wiser than my enemies: for they are ever with me. I have more understanding than all my teachers, for thy testimonies are my meditation."

Understanding comes from obedience to God’s law (Psalm 119:100,104) and to God's testimony—His Word spoken through the prophets of all ages (Psalm 119:125,130,144). If truth is to be restored, then knowledge and understanding of the Biblical concept of truth is essential.

Three definitions of truth are given in the Scriptures:

"I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father but by me" (John 14:6).

"Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth" (John 17:17).

"Thou art near, O LORD; and all thy commandments are truth" (Psalm 119:151).

Truth restored contains all these elements. It is Christ-centered, Word-based, and involves obedience to God’s law.

According to the book of Daniel, the time of the end will include an increase of knowledge and unveiling of Daniel's sealed prophecies. History confirms that a great resurgence of interest in the Scriptures, accompanied by missionary zeal, began around 1798—the beginning of the end times.
Another perfect copypaste without giving any credit to the author.
 

phipps

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It's simple. Revelation was written in 90 AD, 20 years after the destruction of the temple. Matthew 24:4-5 False Christ = Rev. 6: 1-2 White horse. Wars against nations, famine, Matt. 24:6-8 + Rev. 6:3-13 The Red, Black and Pale horses. Revelation 6:1-22:21 is of a detailed explanation of Christ summary of Matthew Chapter 24 and 25 and is yet future before His return. Luke 21:20-24 are not included in the Matthew Olivet Discourse. The Jews were scattered all over to other nations (which is what happened). The Olivet Discourse goes beyond and is described in Revelation 20 years later. Quit following men's religion and carnal reasoning (you must be born again. Have you ever asked the Lord (personally) to show you the Truth? There will be a change in your life. The world hates us, It also hated Christ! (John 15:18) And false prophets hate us also! Since Christ has not returned yet, all is yet future in Matthew and Revelation's
I was tired yesterday but I will respond better today.

You should know first that all four gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke John recount the life and work of Jesus on earth. So they share some of the same accounts in some instances (especially Matthew Mark and Luke) with more or less details because they wrote differently and focussed on different parts of the accounts. So Matthew wrote the same account as Luke did on Mount Olivet. Compare what they wrote. Its even almost the same wording in certain parts. You should know that as a Bible reader.

"When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand then let them which be in Judea flee into the mountains." Matthew 24: 15, 16.

"And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh. Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto." Luke 21:20,21

Matthew 24:4-24 is about signs about the second coming of Jesus and in is the destruction of Jerusalem as well. Jesus says, "Take heed that no man deceive you. For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many. And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet." The end is not yet pretty much sums it all.

Yes Revelation was written much later than the gospels and gives us in more detail what will happen during end times and after Jesus returns. Some of what Jesus said in Matthew 24 applies to Revelation because it is about end time prophecy after all.

Revelation 6-8 is about the vision of the seven seals. The vision actually opens in Revelation 5:1, and he has there a view of heaven itself. "And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals." Here John sees one seated on a throne with a book in his hand. By the way, books in those days were in the form of scrolls rolled together. And this one was sealed within and also on the backside, and it was sealed with seven seals. Apparently the Revelator was impressed that this scroll contained something of infinite importance. Yet, no one was seen worthy to unloose the scroll and to reveal the contents. John wept over it, as we read in verse 2. "And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof? And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon. And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon."

The 1st seal, the white horse represents the pure Church. White is the colour of purity in the Bible. The 2nd seal is the Red Horse which represents the persecuting Church. Red represents sin. The 3rd Seal: A Black Horse: The Corrupt Church. Black is the colour of darkness and error. The 4th Seal: A Pale Horse: The Dead Church. This pale horse is the colour of nausea and death. The 5th Seal: The Martyred Church. The 6th Seal: The End-Time Church and some of this seal has not yet happened but Jesus returns during this seal. We are in this period of time. Jesus returns before the 7th seal opened. The entire 7th chapter is spent telling us who will be ready. When the 7th seal is opened there is silence in heaven. Revelation 8:1."And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour." If you read the sixth seal you realise heaven is silent because all the angels come with Jesus at His return to this earth.

The seven seals show the development of the Church from the time of Christ right down to the very end of this world. Under the symbols of seals, a perfect chronological vision was given to John, revealing the history of the Church. I already made a point about this on the other forum, but even in prophecy its about those who believe and have faith in Jesus around the world not the state of Israel. The seven seals make that very clear too. When Jesus returns, He will be returning to gather those who believed and had faith in Him. It was never about a state or a nation, its about the whole world. God wants to save us all if we let Him. This is what the Bible teaches and its not men's carnal thinking is it? God bless.
 
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