The left says "Praying to Jesus is islamophobic!"

DavidSon

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#21
z gharib posted a clip of the prayer around 2 weeks ago. As usual it seems people are jumping to conclusions without actually watching/reading the material in discussion.

This is the prayer of a madwoman. It's so awkward and cringe-worthy, watch for yourself and decide.


The commentators of the show are ass-hats. The response of the Muslim woman being sworn into office was so eloquent.
 





mecca

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#23
Again... how generous that you permit Christians to pray.
I didn't "permit" anything. I simply pointed out that Christians have always had and still currently have the freedom to pray to Jesus without it being Islamophobic. The specific actions and choices of Stephanie Borowicz being criticized in this particular incident doesn't in any way cause Christian prayer to be Inherently islamophobic. It's not Islamophobic to pray to Jesus and it never has been... No one (not "the left" or anyone else) has claimed that "praying to Jesus" is an Islamophobic act. I know you understand that this is exactly what I've said, don't play dumb or attempt to strawman me.

As I previously stated, People have labeled Rep. Stephanie Borowicz specific actions in this situation as insensitive and politically motivated but no one has ever said that Christians can't pray to Jesus in a positive and peaceful way. Praying to Jesus is not islamophobic and no one has claimed that it is. Again, no one has removed your freedom to pray to Jesus in a non-inflammatory (or even inflammatory) way. And like I've said, this is true regardless of however you want to personally interpret Rep Borowicz's intentions.
If islam followed the same God
Thanks for proving my point.

In a perfect world, there wouldn't be any hostility between the abrahamic religions and everyone would understand that they follow the same God... but we don't live in that world. Many people are hostile towards other religions and believe theirs to be the one and only truth and the only true path... especially right wing evangelicals. Rep. Borowicz's actions speak for themselves and the message was pretty clear to many people.
 





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#24
That article is blatantly false and alarmist propaganda. It doesn't give any accurate context on the situation. Christian prayer is not and has never been labeled as Islamophobic and no one is saying that it is.

What actually happened in this specific situation is that on March 25th, Rep. Movita Johnson-Harrell, the first Muslim woman to join the Pennsylvania house of representatives was being sworn in to the house. Directly before this Muslim woman was sworn in, Rep. Stephanie Borowicz (a Christian) decided to say a prayer where she said things like "God forgive us — Jesus — we’ve lost sight of you, we’ve forgotten you"... Keep in mind that this is directly before a non-Christian person was supposed to be sworn in.

People obviously interpreted this as somewhat hostile towards other religions, specifically Muslims since a Muslim was about to be sworn in. It kind of seems like Rep. Borowicz is saying that this country has "forgotten Jesus" and needs to be "forgiven" specifically because a Muslim was becoming a representative instead of a Christian. And according to a Times article on this incident, Rep. Borowicz "mentioned 'Jesus' 13 times, 'God' six times and 'Lord' four times. She also heralded President Donald Trump in the prayer over his support for Israel". What this shows is that her prayer was definitely meant to be a political statement and it was aimed towards Rep. Movita Johnson-Harrell in a way that was supposed to tarnish her achievement as the first Muslim representative. Rep. Borowicz made it all about herself and her own religion in a somewhat disrespectful way towards the audience which had many Muslims in it.

During her prayer Rep. Borowicz also said “At the name of Jesus, every knee will bow, and every tongue will confess, Jesus, that you are Lord". The article points out that: "the verse 'every knee will bow, and every tongue will confess' is often cited by Christians who argue that Christianity is the one true faith". Plus we all know that many evangelicals don't think that Muslims share the same God as a part of the abrahamic religions. So there's no way around this being a blatantly hostile statement in the context of that situation.

It's supposedly a common thing for the Pennsylvania House to open sessions with prayers and prayers from all religions are allowed to be made but they are supposed to be respectful of everyone's faiths. The chamber's normal protocol calls for an interfaith and respectful invocation... Borowicz didn't follow that and she was definitely not being respectful in her intentions with the prayer she made. Christian prayers are made every day and no one has a problem with that. The problem in this situation was not that a Christian prayed to Jesus... it's that Rep. Borowicz made a thinly veiled hostile political statement against the first Muslim woman who was being sworn in.

Rep. Movita Johnson-Harrell responded to this situation by saying: "It was directly a political statement, and I think we need to be very, very clear that everybody in this House matters, whether they’re Christian, Muslim or Jew, and that we cannot use these issues to tear each other down. And not only that, it was made during my swearing in".

Regardless of whether you think the prayer was meant to be hostile towards Rep. Movita Johnson-Harrell or not, no one has ever said that a Christian prayer is inherently anti-Muslim. People have labeled Rep. Stephanie Borowicz specific actions in this situation as insensitive and politically motivated but no one has ever said that Christians can't pray to Jesus in a positive and peaceful way. You are free to pray to Jesus as a Christian, no one has ever said anything different. You're not oppressed as a Christian in this country.
That's a fair point. I try to watch out even when I'm reading from conservative news sites because an echo chamber is an echo chamber and natural news does exaggerate or dramatize things sometimes. I don't disagree with the fact that the whole thing in the House was kinda one-sided and could be seen as hostile towards other religions. It's also understandable that Red. Johnson-Harrell said the prayer was “highly offensive to me, my guests, and other members of the House" (https://www.penncapital-star.com/go...-by-fellow-house-member-blatant-islamophobia/). However, if the article is true, she also did make a statement saying that it blatantly "represented the Islamophobia that exists among some leaders" with several people including those who've studied Islamophobia agreeing with her.

Although I'm not trying to speak for anyone, it seems to me that the bigger point of this thread is that there's an increase in intolerance towards Christianity from Democrats and Leftist circles - something I agree with but recognize the Right has a problem with too. Not trynna start a fight or anything, you just raise an interesting point.
 





mecca

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#25
However, if the article is true, she also did make a statement saying that it blatantly "represented the Islamophobia that exists among some leaders" with several people including those who've studied Islamophobia agreeing with her.
Yeah, she said Rep. Stephanie Borowicz specific actions in this incident were essentially Islamophobic, disrespectful, and politically motivated... she did not say that "praying to Jesus" is Islamophobic. Neither has "the left" ever claimed that Christian prayer is Islamophobic.

To say that she (or "the left") did is a blatant lie used to create division and hostility. That's why I pointed out that the article in the OP is biased propaganda, it blatantly lies and uses clickbait in the title to mislead people and its analysis is false.
Although I'm not trying to speak for anyone, it seems to me that the bigger point of this thread is that there's an increase in intolerance towards Christianity from Democrats and Leftist circles
There really isn't though. Christians aren't persecuted in America... They have a lot of political power and influence here among both the right and "the left".
 





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#26
I live in Pennsylvania. Christians aren’t being persecuted in Pennsylvania. It’s a largely conservative and Christian state. The schools ONLY celebrate Christian holidays (no days off for Jewish or Muslim holidays) and every single one I’ve worked in has been all about “merry Christmas” and “happy Easter” - my town is like two square miles and has five Christian churches.

Things may be a little different in the more urban areas (pretty much nonexistent other then Philadelphia and Pittsburgh) but the vast majority of the state is the furthest I could see from being accused of any type of anti Christian activity/bias etc.

That lady was just being a dick. They don’t much like outsiders here - even white Christian outsiders.
 





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#27
I didn't "permit" anything. I simply pointed out that Christians have always had and still currently have the freedom to pray to Jesus without it being Islamophobic.
lol @simply since you (re)define the nature of the world's religions, according to your own philosophy, in your commentary.

And.. the intentionally divisive article and your response to it says otherwise. But that is the purpose of the article, and likely, the event, altogether. Something to consider, and I've mentioned it on numerous occasions.
 





mecca

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#31
lol @simply since you (re)define the nature of the world's religions, according to your own philosophy, in your commentary.
I don't know what you're talking about. Again, I have not "permitted" or "redefined "anything. All I did was point out that christian prayer is not in any way inherently Islamophobic. Do you for some reason have a problem with me saying that? Rep. Borowicz was rightfully criticized for her actions but that has nothing to do with Christian's freedom to pray to Jesus. I'm not sure why you want to challenge what I've said. I haven't said anything about any philosophies.
And.. the intentionally divisive article and your response to it says otherwise.
I already pointed out why the article is false and completely biased. All I did in my response was describe the specific situation in a more accurate way and I counteracted the claim of the article which was that "praying to jesus has been labeled as Islamophobic". I think I was pretty clear. I really don't know what you're trying to argue about.
But that is the purpose of the article, and likely, the event, altogether.
I've already said that think the article is pretty blatant divisive propaganda, the source itself is a completely uncredible fake news site that regularly spreads falsities... And I think Borowicz's actions were pretty clearly meant to be a hostile political statement under the guise of just being a "prayer"... everyone saw through it and rightfully called her out on it. Why are you trying to defend it?
 





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Lurking009

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#34
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/pennsy...owicz-prayer-muslim-offended-gop-swearing-in/

The first female Muslim member of the Pennsylvania House of Representatives said Tuesday she was offended by a colleague's decision to open a voting session with a prayer a day earlier that "at the name of Jesus every knee will bow." Democratic Rep. Movita Johnson-Harrell of Philadelphia said she felt the remarks by Rep. Stephanie Borowicz shortly before Johnson-Harrell took the oath of office on Monday used her religion against her.

Democratic Gov. Tom Wolf said Tuesday he was "horrified" by Borowicz's invocation and apologized to Johnson-Harrell on behalf of all Pennsylvanians.

The rest of the story...

Johnson-Harrell won a special election earlier this month to fill a seat vacated by the resignation of Democratic Rep. Vanessa Lowery Brown, who had been re-elected in November after being convicted of bribery. Johnson-Harrell's swearing-in drew 55 guests, a majority of them Muslim. A Muslim prayer was said from the House dais during the ceremony.

Another Muslim lawmaker, Rep. Jason Dawkins, D-Philadelphia, opened the session on Tuesday by reading from the Quran. His invocation was followed by applause.

So many issues, so many disgusting blatant anti-Christian hypocrisies, so little time.
 





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#35
This is the prayer of a madwoman. It's so awkward and cringe-worthy, watch for yourself and decide.
Somehow I do not think Jesus peace be upon him, would approve her message:)
Thanks for re-posting that video and to z gharib as well. This is one of those things that tells me people should travel more and check how they are showing up in the world. (A better education would help as well.)
If you are fear based and divisive you will come off as paranoid if you are abundance based and accepting you will show up in a better light.
Ultimately the Creator intended for us to have different religions, creeds and colors but how we deal with these differences is what is important.
People should stop letting the media or vested interests pit us against each other.
The climate being fostered in the US is deliberate.
Fear and hate mongering are being spread by vested interests to pit groups left/right or Muslim/Christian against each other so that deprived hate filled youth go fight these wars....
Wake up and smell the coffee....

Although I do not agree with the UAE'S foreign policies, however, visiting that country and many other countries around the world gives a person a perspective about how many western nations are being driven to a frenzy of hate and war. Many countries have better vibes and a healthier polity in regards to their internal policies:


 





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#36
That's what initially confused me about the story because I didn't know that some government bodies regularly started their sessions with group prayers.
A lot of government bodies open with prayers, almost universally Christian, yet somehow they are being persecuted lol. If anything Christianity has a place of superiority in America ( see the National Prayer Breakfast, many Governors have a similar program as well ). There’s a church on every corner and I’ve been in towns with like 2k people that six churches, it’s completely laughable and false that Christianity is in anyway persecuted.
 





Lurking009

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#38
In a perfect world, there wouldn't be any hostility between the abrahamic religions and everyone would understand that they follow the same God... but we don't live in that world. Many people are hostile towards other religions and believe theirs to be the one and only truth and the only true path... especially right wing evangelicals. Rep. Borowicz's actions speak for themselves and the message was pretty clear to many people.
True Christians do not believe this lie, no matter how many times you or anyone else spins it. The same God who proclaimed Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior isn't going to deny Him to another group. There aren't two opposing truths in Christianity, there's just one. You are free to choose your truth, and I support that freedom, but don't pretend your truth shares the same foundation as Christian truth.

While I reject the beliefs of Islam, I feel no hostility to muslims because of their beliefs, and neither does any other Christian I know. It's no different than rejecting any other non-Christian religion as 'not the truth'. Believe what you want, live and let live. Seriously, it's not that hard... unless your belief and agenda is to force others into your belief system. Then I guess living and letting others live would be impossible.

My problem is with any follower of a religion who steps beyond the boundaries of belief, and manipulates and forces their agenda on others. Their continual faux offended outrage is just a way to manipulate society to bow to their beliefs. Instead of accepting the laws of their home/host countries, they petition, protest, and slither their way into government to change the fundamental laws and foundation of that country. They push for fewer and fewer freedoms, more oppression and more obediance to THEIR religious system.

It's evil.
 





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DavidSon

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#39
Somehow I do not think Jesus peace be upon him, would approve her message:)
Thanks for re-posting that video and to z gharib as well. This is one of those things that tells me people should travel more and check how they are showing up in the world. (A better education would help as well.)
If you are fear based and divisive you will come off as paranoid if you are abundance based and accepting you will show up in a better light.
Ultimately the Creator intended for us to have different religions, creeds and colors but how we deal with these differences is what is important.
People should stop letting the media or vested interests pit us against each other.
The climate being fostered in the US is deliberate.
Fear and hate mongering are being spread by vested interests to pit groups left/right or Muslim/Christian against each other so that deprived hate filled youth go fight these wars....
Wake up and smell the coffee....

Although I do not agree with the UAE'S foreign policies, however, visiting that country and many other countries around the world gives a person a perspective about how many western nations are being driven to a frenzy of hate and war. Many countries have better vibes and a healthier polity in regards to their internal policies:


Well said DR! I have to quote this part of your post:

"The climate being fostered in the US is deliberate.
Fear and hate mongering are being spread by vested interests to pit groups left/right or Muslim/Christian against each other so that deprived hate filled youth go fight these wars....
Wake up and smell the coffee....
"

Ignorance and hatred are mountainous forces. At times it wearies the heart knowing of such evil, but we must remain diligent! Good will always conquer evil, and truth forever dispels lies.

It would be great if we had a more equitable distribution of wealth, I think the economy could afford citizens of the world to travel around and have a proper vacation once or twice a year. Similar to what you're saying, I think traveling to others' lands opens our mind to possibilities and forces us to accept how similar we are.
 





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#40
My problem is with any follower of a religion who steps beyond the boundaries of belief, and manipulates and forces their agenda on others. Their continual faux offended outrage is just a way to manipulate society to bow to their beliefs.
So if I were to give the benefit of the doubt and assume you're not just a hypocrite, you should agree that what that idiot Borowicz did in this situation had very little to do with religious convictions because it was obviously a provocative, passive-aggressive, and manipulative political stunt. Got it, thanks. ;)