The islamisation of the west

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This:

It's no secret that the Catholic Church and evangelists openly colludes with Israel. The mass of Christians, typically American, Zionist, or Alt-Right, support Israel. I've talked with a handful of Alt-Right adherents, it's mind-boggling how they claim to be fighting Jews yet support their state.
The RCC has always been neutral in the Israel-Palestinian conflict. Evangelicals and WASP are generally allies of Israel, but there are historical and ideological explanations for that.

With regard to alt-rights, they are generally nationalistic, which means support of Jewish nationalism would be the consistent thing to do. At the same time is opposing American Jewry who are generally opposed to American nationalism also the consistent thing to do.
 

Helioform

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What about seeding hatred for our culture? Have you read DesertRose's opinion piece? Not only does it misrepresent our history or exaggerate the injustices, it seems to give plenty of reasons to Muslims not to like the West and most of it is clearly rooted in indoctrination, a lot of it even coming from western media and public schools with their exaggerated stories on the evils of colonialism, the crusades or the inquisition.
Seems to me like you have an extremely biased view because that is not what the media has been feeding us ever since 9/11. Only since Trump has been in power that most people have started realizing that the hate against most Muslims was not justified. If you watch YouTube videos and read comments, you will see that there are millions of people who are starting to realize that the 9/11 story was a lie and hatred against Muslims is not based on facts.

I have spent almost 15 years denouncing the Iraq invasion and destabilisations around the world. Just because that is a problem deserving attention doesn't mean that Islamisation of the West is not. They are both problems. Moreover, the destabilisations in the Middle East have led to more Islam in the region, not less. Iraq was a secular state under Hussein. Syria has been a secular state under the Assad dynasty. Egypt was secular under Mubarak before the US helped the Muslim Brotherhood into power. So even the Middle East has been going through some form of Islamisation itself.
Who cares if Iraq was secular, Hussein was a planted stooge by the CIA and the lives of Iraqis are much worse than they were before the US invaded it.

Yet none of this addresses the issue that the future of the West, and Europe in particular, is Islamic if things continue the way they are. Average birth rate of Europeans (1.5) has been below the necessary target (2.1) to maintain European population levels since the 1960s, while the birth rate of European muslims have been ranging from 2.2 to 3+. Add to that the waves of immigration from the Islamic world into Europe and Islamisation is the result of a simple math exercise.
Then it's our duty to procreate more, not blame some immigrants for replacing us.
 
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Kung Fu

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The reoccurring common criticism coming from Muslims towards the West is that it is a godless society without transcendental values and universal morals. Muslims in Russia aren't as adversarial towards their host country as Muslims in the West are and the major difference between the two is that Russia again starts to live in symbiosis with God and Church and that Russians don't have a guilt culture constantly chastising themselves for whatever happened in the past. Muslims generally don't like weak self-loathing people, therefore they generally don't like western people. You are an excellent example of that.
If I criticize the West for being a godless society and there believe that there really is no evil or good, except when it fits their agendas to label something as evil or good, does that make what I say to be invalid and make me a bad person? I, as a Muslim French Canadian, have the right to voice my opinion and criticize the ills of my environment because I want to see it improve and prosper. It's funny you mention Russians. A large part of my family are Russians and I, as a Muslim, get along with them perfectly fine and admire their loyalty to their Christian beliefs. Muslims don't like weak self-loathing people or do you mean PEOPLE in general don't like weak self-loathing people?

You believe I don't like weak self-loathing people? Where did you get that from?

I don't see it as black and white, no. Neither do I think that Colonialism is intrinsically evil, but that it depends on the actual consequences of what colonialism has produced. If you believe colonialism is or was intrinsically evil, you'll have to explain why.
It stole from countries in the guise of them helping them and civilizing them. It invaded countries and stole from them for centuries. There are mountains of academic work on the issues and atrocities attributed to colonialism or are you not going to accept those as well?

What do the Jews of Stamford Hill do? I don't know about them.
They're a community of Jews that have their own security and police, their own schools, and own social customs. At one point they even had women and men walking on separate sides of the street so they don't come in contact with one another. No one says anything about them.

What kind of systemic racism against Muslims does there exist in Britain? Of course there are works claiming there is systemic racism from white culture, because it has become a disease to blame everything on white people nowadays.
Workplace barriers, issues of integration (they're criticized for not "integrating" while the Jews of Stamford Hill is basically a mini Jewish nation within Britain yet they're not told anything about integration), and etc.

If you know there are works on system racism from white culture than why are you asking me about systemic racism? If I use academic scholarly work you're not going to accept it because anyone that says anything about white culture must be wrong no matter what position they hold.

Well, they did bring down the Ottoman Caliphate when the population was approximately 15% to 20% Christian. One century later it's 2% Christian. They invaded Iraq and the Christian population of Iraq is now half of what it was before the invasion (from 6% to 3%) while the Muslim population went up to 97%. The international community destabilised Libya, Iraq and Syria with Muslim takfeer. It wasn't a Yezidi rebellion or a Christian rebellion, but a Muslim one. If I put you across a takfir to debate Islam, he might accuse you of not following true Islam just the same. To me it's irrelevant. Both proclaim to practice / believe true Islam.
They worked so hard to bring down the Ottoman Caliphate but yet they create and fund militant Islamic groups after they've thrown out the secular governments that they propped up in the first place and that doesn't seem contradictory or strange to you?

You're talking to me about population religious percents in areas that have been invaded by foreigners and is a cluster fuck at the moment and you expect me or anyone else for that matter to believe those numbers as some kind of fact?

The colonialists, imperialists, Bush, Trump, and a host of other Western leaders proclaim and practice/believe true Christianity. Funny how that works.

If these corporations have no loyalty to a country, then no country can be accused of invading Iraq for oil.
Did Casper the Ghost invade Iraq then? Just because Corporations don't hold any loyalty to no country doesn't mean they don't get countries to their bidding.

Nowhere did I say low fertility rates were the fault of Muslims.
You sure brought it up like it was the fault of Muslims but if you didn't mean it that way then I take back what I said.

The wave of immigration is not due to western invasions. First it was labour immigration, then it was family reunification, then it was economic migration permitted by Europe's freedom of movement. The argument that migrants are coming here because their countries have been invaded by the West is a huge lie. Most are not refugees, but economic migrants; they migrate to the West because of the free handouts and housing they can receive here because in African or Middle Eastern countries they cannot profit from the same level of accommodation. When war refugees complain about their free internet connection not being fast enough, then I see no reason to feel any pity for them.
No logical human being would pack up from one region of the world where their family lives and where they have made a life for themselves unless said region had bombs being dropped on them or it being destabilized through foreign intervention whether it be through foreign policies or the installing of puppet governments. And especially not for some internet.

War refugees complaining about their free internet connection seems like it's propaganda in order for the Natives to hate the refugees who are fleeing because they're being bombed by those very same people.
 
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Kung Fu

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Again, this is false equivalence. These Islamic groups are/were funded by the Gulf States. The Gulf States seek to establish a caliphate. These Islamic groups seek to establish a caliphate = common interest. If the Gulf States and these jihadis are manipulated by the Israelis, then that would mean the Israelis see benefit in the establishment of an Islamic Caliphate.

Do Freemasons or Israelis contribute in any way or form to the establishment of a Christian theocracy anywhere?
No it isn't. They're being funded by BOTH America and the Gulf States as seen with Syria and Libya. And let us not forget who put those very Gulf States in power. You stating that the Gulf States want to establish an ISLAMIC Caliphate is laughable considering their spawns of the West. Take down the Ottoman Caliphate only to setup the Gulf States so they can set up an Islamic Caliphate doesn't make any kind of logical sense at all. Also, funny how none of these Gulf States and especially these "Islamic" groups never ever try to attack Israel, which is their neighbor yet travel great distances to go set off a bomb somewhere in Europe or America lol. Doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

The Israelis own America and America is made up of a majority of Christians and therefore they support Christianity. The Israelis and Christians love one another and work together in fact so much so that America, a Christian nation, gives Israel 3 billion dollars worth of stuff annually.
 
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DesertRose

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Total bias has been the norm for AR.
Here are two examples.
DesertRose said:
I will not waste my time answering haters.
Look at this response by AR!
"If you're going to call people of different cultures haters because they ask questions about the islamisation occurring in their societies......."

1. Hey dude, I called out the haters of Islam regardless of culture! Twisting my words will get you nowhere.

Seems like that is how these bigots operate through untruthful assumptions (uninformed biases) and deception (twisting words).

2. I posted an article outlining what the west has done while acknowledging that it is not Christianity at fault. The article explicitly states that Muslims are open to covenants and mutual agreements for peace but that hater comes back with look what DR posted they just hate us.
No we hate what some Westerners have done we are cognizant of the fact that most operate under Zionist control as well.

Dealing with haters is a waste of my time and I am not interested in engaging filthy bottom feeding trollery.
That is why I could not be bothered to reply to their hateful drivel. I combat their lies with videos and posts from informed sources that highlight the relevant issues where appropriate.
They hate it because it takes 2 minutes of my time and no hateful energy back.:)
AR has been on my ignore list for weeks.
I have been online long enough to have an idea about who is wasting my time and frankly I do not care about their thoughts or criticisms at all.
They complain because they can not deal with facts and want to engage in the blame game.
 
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Helioform

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If I criticize the West for being a godless society and there believe that there really is no evil or good, except when it fits their agendas to label something as evil or good, does that make what I say to be invalid and make me a bad person? I, as a Muslim French Canadian, have the right to voice my opinion and criticize the ills of my environment because I want to see it improve and prosper.
Yeah. Consumerism, pollution, perversions of all kinds are what make up Western society now. But I am sure this is all because of evil invading immigrants...

I also speak french btw.
 

Kung Fu

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Yeah. Consumerism, pollution, perversions of all kinds are what make up Western society now. But I am sure this is all because of evil invading immigrants...

I also speak french btw.
Consumerism, alcoholism, gambling, pollution, sexual immorality (which leads to the spread of diseases, unwanted babies, single mothers, single fathers, and more orphaned kids), drugs, pornography, and etc. but yet if I as Muslim talk out against these things I'm not integrating properly when this was not the Canada that my grandfather grew up in.

I'm French Canadian on my mother's side and Afghan on my father's side. My French is poor considering we moved to Toronto when I was pretty young and since I never had to practice the language it went downhill sadly.

My father always told me that if it wasn't for the war and Western interference he wouldn't have had to leave Afghanistan seeing as he loved it there. He was a farmer but once the Soviets came in it all went to shit. I'm glad he came to Canada and met my mom otherwise I wouldn't have been born.
 

Helioform

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Consumerism, alcoholism, gambling, pollution, sexual immorality (which leads to the spread of diseases, unwanted babies, single mothers, single fathers, and more orphaned kids), drugs, pornography, and etc. but yet if I as Muslim talk out against these things I'm not integrating properly when this was not the Canada that my grandfather grew up in.

I'm French Canadian on my mother's side and Afghan on my father's side. My French is poor considering we moved to Toronto when I was pretty young and since I never had to practice the language it went downhill sadly.

My father always told me that if it wasn't for the war and Western interference he wouldn't have had to leave Afghanistan seeing as he loved it there. He was a farmer but once the Soviets came in it all went to shit. I'm glad he came to Canada and met my mom otherwise I wouldn't have been born.
I agree. I was raised a Catholic, I'm French Canadian on my mother's side and my father came from Northern Italy. At least the Muslims that come here (I also live in Canada, Montreal to be precise) seem to have more moral strength than some of the Quebecers I have known. There are not a lot of moral values being taught and everyone is busy talking on their smartphones. Technology is replacing everything and I'm thinking that we are just going down the wrong direction with all the focus on "smart" everythings.
 

Kung Fu

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I agree. I was raised a Catholic, I'm French Canadian on my mother's side and my father came from Northern Italy. At least the Muslims that come here (I also live in Canada, Montreal to be precise) seem to have more moral strength than some of the Quebecers I have known. There are not a lot of moral values being taught and everyone is busy talking on their smartphones. Technology is replacing everything and I'm thinking that we are just going down the wrong direction with all the focus on "smart" everythings.
We have a lot in common. I was raised Catholic as well because I was mainly raised by my mother. My father isn't an atheist but he doesn't believe in organized religion.

I frequent Quebec a lot due to a big chunk of my family living there. Some live in Laval and some in Quebec City. If you have the time we should definitely meet up the next time I'm there.

Peace be upon you.
 
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Seems to me like you have an extremely biased view because that is not what the media has been feeding us ever since 9/11. Only since Trump has been in power that most people have started realizing that the hate against most Muslims was not justified. If you watch YouTube videos and read comments, you will see that there are millions of people who are starting to realize that the 9/11 story was a lie and hatred against Muslims is not based on facts.
My point here is that we've been spoon-fed the tales of how the Inquisition murdered hundreds of thousands of heretics, muslims and jews (some even claimed 60 million), that the Crusades were an unprovoked act of aggression against the muslim world, that colonialism was strictly evil and oppressive, that slavery was entirely our fault, etc etc. Do you deny this?? Do you think there is a guilt culture of auto-criticism in the muslim world as there is in ours? This is a case of empirical observation. If you have a different perception then we'll have to dig into this.

Who cares if Iraq was secular, Hussein was a planted stooge by the CIA and the lives of Iraqis are much worse than they were before the US invaded it.
This isn't the point. My point was that despite or because of western intervention, the Middle East became more Islamised. This is obvious because they have fuelled sectarian violence and sectarian violence imperatively leads to more fundamentalism. If you don't agree with my statement, rebut it, but don't bring in the typical everything is the West / white people's fault.

Then it's our duty to procreate more, not blame some immigrants for replacing us.
As I said to Kung Fu, I didn't blame immigrants for low birth rates. Try to discern my arguments before replying, please.
 

Helioform

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My point here is that we've been spoon-fed the tales of how the Inquisition murdered hundreds of thousands of heretics, muslims and jews (some even claimed 60 million), that the Crusades were an unprovoked act of aggression against the muslim world, that colonialism was strictly evil and oppressive, that slavery was entirely our fault, etc etc. Do you deny this?? Do you think there is a guilt culture of auto-criticism in the muslim world as there is in ours? This is a case of empirical observation. If you have a different perception then we'll have to dig into this.
I don't know in which country you live, but I have never heard or has been taught in school that the Inquisition has killed 100000+ heretics, muslims or jews. Even less 60 millions. I also never heard that the Crusades were entirely an attack against Muslims. If anything, it was the other way because I live in a Catholic stronghold. Where did you go to school I wonder? But slavery WAS mostly our fault, and colonialism WAS mostly evil even though I never ever been "taught" that it was the case.

This isn't the point. My point was that despite or because of western intervention, the Middle East became more Islamised. This is obvious because they have fuelled sectarian violence and sectarian violence imperatively leads to more fundamentalism. If you don't agree with my statement, rebut it, but don't bring in the typical everything is the West / white people's fault.
Like I have told you, the supposed secularism was an implementation from the start from the West through intelligence agencies. The result that it may have become more "Islamised", with whatever you include in that definition, is entirely irrelevant. Conspiracies exist but do not always give the desired result. Also, the US couldn't give a hoot that they are more "Islamised" as you say, since they are done pillaging and raping the place already.

As I said to Kung Fu, I didn't blame immigrants for low birth rates. Try to discern my arguments before replying, please.
Then what on Earth was your point? You're the one who brought up the high birth rates of immigrants, which is entirely irrelevant to the discussion.
 
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If I criticize the West for being a godless society and there believe that there really is no evil or good, except when it fits their agendas to label something as evil or good, does that make what I say to be invalid and make me a bad person? I, as a Muslim French Canadian, have the right to voice my opinion and criticize the ills of my environment because I want to see it improve and prosper. It's funny you mention Russians. A large part of my family are Russians and I, as a Muslim, get along with them perfectly fine and admire their loyalty to their Christian beliefs. Muslims don't like weak self-loathing people or do you mean PEOPLE in general don't like weak self-loathing people?
In the West, if you are not a weak self-loathing person, you're most likely a racist. In the West, a white person cannot be pride of his heritage, cannot be proud of Christianity, cannot be proud of the historical achievements of his ancestors. But if a muslim or a black man is all of these things it's called empowering. A white person cannot criticise other cultures, other beliefs, accuse an entire race for historical events that took place that were detrimental to white people without being called a racist, xenophobe, Islamophobe or whatnot. And that in white majority countries.

You believe I don't like weak self-loathing people? Where did you get that from?
There's this story about a historical muslim warlord, I don't remember the name or details of this story. There was an Austrian baron or something (again, don't remember the details) who tried to make a deal with the muslim warlord to join forces against his fellow Austrian people. That warlord refused and expressed his disrespect for this traitor baron because he didn't defend his people and culture. The warlord had more respect for those Austrian leaders he met on the battlefield. I expect you'd be the same as that warlord. You definitely don't like weakness (I'm talking about weakness in self-respect and esteem). But I might've been wrong about the self-loathing part. You seem to prefer western people on these forums who dislike their own culture and heritage while bootlicking yours.

It stole from countries in the guise of them helping them and civilizing them. It invaded countries and stole from them for centuries. There are mountains of academic work on the issues and atrocities attributed to colonialism or are you not going to accept those as well?
The more I learn about colonialism the less I see it as black and white. Yes, there are certainly black pages of colonial history, but in order to make an ethical judgment we'll have to assess the individual cases. This same reasoning can be so easily turned against you. If invading and stealing from other countries is inherently evil (and I agree that it is) then we have to conclude that the first 8 centuries of Islamic expansion and conquest were inherently evil. But I'm sure this requires historical context. Colonialism, not so much.

They're a community of Jews that have their own security and police, their own schools, and own social customs. At one point they even had women and men walking on separate sides of the street so they don't come in contact with one another. No one says anything about them.
That would probably change if they started suicide bombing other people.

Workplace barriers, issues of integration (they're criticized for not "integrating" while the Jews of Stamford Hill is basically a mini Jewish nation within Britain yet they're not told anything about integration), and etc.
Yes, I think we can both agree that Jews enjoy a certain privilege in our societies and succeed at getting away with it by staying under the radar as much as they can.

If you know there are works on system racism from white culture than why are you asking me about systemic racism? If I use academic scholarly work you're not going to accept it because anyone that says anything about white culture must be wrong no matter what position they hold.
Because I'm not interested in books or theses. I'm interested in facts and arguments. Give one example of systemic racism.

They worked so hard to bring down the Ottoman Caliphate but yet they create and fund militant Islamic groups after they've thrown out the secular governments that they propped up in the first place and that doesn't seem contradictory or strange to you?
Why would it be contradictory? And which secular states did they prop up? The West wasn't behind the Assad dynasty in Syria, nor were they behind Nasser in Egypt. A lot, if not most secularist nations were formed by homegrown secular nationalists. The West generally seems to have better relationships with Islamic dictatorships like the KSA or Bahrein and Qatar.

You're talking to me about population religious percents in areas that have been invaded by foreigners and is a cluster fuck at the moment and you expect me or anyone else for that matter to believe those numbers as some kind of fact?
Well yes, because the point was that Islamisation and dechristianisation seems to be the trend following western interventions in the Middle East. What else would I use to support that fact other than religious demographics?!

The colonialists, imperialists, Bush, Trump, and a host of other Western leaders proclaim and practice/believe true Christianity. Funny how that works.
That too is completely irrelevant. The relevant question is whether there's a direct theological or doctrinal link between the religion and the behaviour of its adherents. What people, and especially violent people, claim is true Christianity or true Islam is a complete waste of time.

Did Casper the Ghost invade Iraq then? Just because Corporations don't hold any loyalty to no country doesn't mean they don't get countries to their bidding.
So if it's a teenie weenie minority of high finance bribing politicians through lobby groups to invade Iraq, why should the Western people be held accountable? The majority in the West, even the majority in the USA are non-interventionist, yet their taxes go to these military interventions they opposed, and now they're forced to pay taxes for the effects of people coming from those areas (although most do not come from those areas). So our money is taken from us to make all this crap possible and then we have to pay the bill to repair all this crap, yet we all deserve the consequences of our elite's machinations. When we address injustice committed against the Middle East we're "good boys". When we address problems in our own countries that involve immigrants we're bad. Some objectivity would be nice!

No logical human being would pack up from one region of the world where their family lives and where they have made a life for themselves unless said region had bombs being dropped on them or it being destabilized through foreign intervention whether it be through foreign policies or the installing of puppet governments. And especially not for some internet.
Who says these people are logical? A lot of them come here for genuine reasons of opportunity, or because they're fleeing oppression or persecution in their home countries. But most of them, especially Arabs and Africans, come here because of the social security net. And most politicians encourage it because that way they can appeal to a new voter group who desires more government, which then gives those politicians more power, while those politicians, pundits or people who criticise this uncontrolled immigration tsunami are tagged with the stereotypical labels.

War refugees complaining about their free internet connection seems like it's propaganda in order for the Natives to hate the refugees who are fleeing because they're being bombed by those very same people.
Of course. They're being paid to say that, right?

 
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No it isn't. They're being funded by BOTH America and the Gulf States as seen with Syria and Libya. And let us not forget who put those very Gulf States in power. You stating that the Gulf States want to establish an ISLAMIC Caliphate is laughable considering their spawns of the West. Take down the Ottoman Caliphate only to setup the Gulf States so they can set up an Islamic Caliphate doesn't make any kind of logical sense at all. Also, funny how none of these Gulf States and especially these "Islamic" groups never ever try to attack Israel, which is their neighbor yet travel great distances to go set off a bomb somewhere in Europe or America lol. Doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

The Israelis own America and America is made up of a majority of Christians and therefore they support Christianity. The Israelis and Christians love one another and work together in fact so much so that America, a Christian nation, gives Israel 3 billion dollars worth of stuff annually.
Man, I really wonder why you constantly boast about being logical. You're really not that good at logics as you think you are. You keep throwing around causalities and relationships that don't prove anything.

Anyone by now should know the reason why the Ottoman Caliphate was ripped to pieces. I'll let you answer it since I'm pretty sure you know.
 
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Total bias has been the norm for AR.
Here are two examples.
DesertRose said:
I will not waste my time answering haters.
Look at this response by AR!
"If you're going to call people of different cultures haters because they ask questions about the islamisation occurring in their societies......."

1. Hey dude, I called out the haters of Islam regardless of culture! Twisting my words will get you nowhere.

Seems like that is how these bigots operate through untruthful assumptions (uninformed biases) and deception (twisting words).

2. I posted an article outlining what the west has done while acknowledging that it is not Christianity at fault. The article explicitly states that Muslims are open to covenants and mutual agreements for peace but that hater comes back with look what DR posted they just hate us.
No we hate what some Westerners have done we are cognizant of the fact that most operate under Zionist control as well.

Dealing with haters is a waste of my time and I am not interested in engaging filthy bottom feeding trollery.
That is why I could not be bothered to reply to their hateful drivel. I combat their lies with videos and posts from informed sources that highlight the relevant issues where appropriate.
They hate it because it takes 2 minutes of my time and no hateful energy back.:)
AR has been on my ignore list for weeks.
I have been online long enough to have an idea about who is wasting my time and frankly I do not care about their thoughts or criticisms at all.
They complain because they can not deal with facts and want to engage in the blame game.
I haven't been online in 3 months since a few days, but whatever. Retreating into your bubble is a sign of weakness and intolerance (for other opinions). Either way, the discussion will not miss you.
 
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Yeah. Consumerism, pollution, perversions of all kinds are what make up Western society now. But I am sure this is all because of evil invading immigrants...

I also speak french btw.
Can you refrain from using these ridiculous straw men? Or do you need an introduction into the basics of an argument?
 
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I don't know in which country you live, but I have never heard or has been taught in school that the Inquisition has killed 100000+ heretics, muslims or jews. Even less 60 millions. I also never heard that the Crusades were entirely an attack against Muslims. If anything, it was the other way because I live in a Catholic stronghold. Where did you go to school I wonder? But slavery WAS mostly our fault, and colonialism WAS mostly evil even though I never ever been "taught" that it was the case.
So you're one of the lucky kids who went to a private Catholic school. I mentioned media and public schools. Yet still you think slavery was mostly our fault which is basically you proving my point about indoctrination. Since the dawn of mankind there was slavery all over the world. Europeans participated in the Atlantic slave trade for about 300 years. At the height of American slavery only 5% of whites owned slaves while the rest of the white population had to pay taxes for the slave system. In the early 18th century the British Empire went on a moral crusade to end slavery worldwide and (with many hiccups no doubt) succeeded! Not the Indians, not the Africans, not the Arabs, not the Japanese, but Western Europeans. One of the biggest humanitarian progresses in human history, but nope! No sympathy for the white devil! Do you ever hear anyone in the mainstream media say that? Do you ever see a white public figure on the tv or radio pat the back of Europeans for this astonishing achievement?

Then what on Earth was your point? You're the one who brought up the high birth rates of immigrants, which is entirely irrelevant to the discussion.
I was pretty clear. I explicitly said that low birth rates of European natives and high birth rates of European Muslims + the influx of Muslim immigrants = Islamisation. A simple math exercise, which if you could simply agree with that we could move on to the actual topic, which is Islamisation. If you don't agree with that, make your case, but don't say I blamed the immigrants when I was simply explaining the natural consequence of these trends.
 
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Helioform

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So you're one of the lucky kids who went to a private Catholic school. I mentioned media and public schools. Yet still you think slavery was mostly our fault which is basically you proving my point about indoctrination. Since the dawn of mankind there was slavery all over the world. Europeans participated in the Atlantic slave trade for about 300 years. At the height of American slavery only 5% of whites owned slaves while the rest of the white population had to pay taxes for the slave system. In the early 18th century the British Empire went on a moral crusade to end slavery worldwide and (with many hiccups no doubt) succeeded! Not the Indians, not the Africans, not the Arabs, not the Japanese, but Western Europeans. One of the biggest humanitarian progressions in human history, but nope! No sympathy for the white devil! Do you ever hear anyone in the mainstream media say that? Do you ever see a white public figure on the tv or radio pat the back of Europeans for this astonishing achievement?
Nope. I went to a public elementary/high school inside a Catholic School Commission. I pursued studies and graduated in university later on but unrelated to history (computer science). As for slavery, I was speaking of recent historical events, obviously, not about the entire history of mankind. It went hand in hand with Western colonialism. The positive aspects of it are very arguable, because Europeans (after the Roman empire) may have been the major instrument in bringing in a world government through the assimilation of various nations (thereby bringing "world peace"). I still think world government is impossible though, because humans are just not able to be represented equally in a democratic world government. It's just too big to handle. Democracy was for small populations only.

I explicitly said that low birth rates of European natives and high birth rates of European Muslims + the influx of Muslim immigrants = Islamisation.
Fair enough. But our birth rate is entirely under our control and I don't see this as an offensive move by Islamists.
 
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Thanks for the reasonable reply.

Fair enough. But our birth rate is entirely under our control and I don't see this as an offensive move by Islamists.
Well there are Islamists who openly say they will conquer the European continent with their women's wombs, even Gaddafi whom I actually like, said something similar. Either way, I'm not blaming muslims who come here. If we shut our doors, they can't come in. So the fault or responsibility entirely lies with our own leadership, but they're clearly incapable or too unwise to do what's best for all people.

Before I argue your first point, I want to make sure I get it right. Do you mean to say that Europeans have used colonialism to usher in or move towards a global government?
 
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