The islamisation of the west

[Artful Revealer]

Exactly, and not one mention of any kind of face covering like that of a burqa or niqab. A head cover is not a full body suit or a face cover.

Now please show me one verse in the Quran that states women should be covering their faces similar to the fashion of that of the niqab or burqa. I asked for a Quranic verse not a hadith.

I wasn't talking about face coverings.

 

[Kung Fu]

You don't have to beat around the bush. Jews have a lot of interest using Islam against the Christian world, they have in the past

At the moment they seem to be using the Christian world to do their bidding.

 

[Artful Revealer]

Like I said just because you refuse to except evidence which is a lot stronger than yours based on your imagination of this perfect European Christendom doesn't mean the information and facts aren't there. Like I said earlier no matter how much evidence, whether it be through logical coherent arguments or works by scholars, presented you will never accept it because it goes against your BELIEFS of a perfect harmonious Christian Europe as seen in this thread.

You're projecting your own bias unto me. Now give one name of an Arab legal book found in Italy that could be a source of western law or show some historical reference where western law has directly taken from Islam or Arabs. Otherwise you have no evidence, unlike the Justinian Code.

 

[Kung Fu]

I wasn't talking about face coverings.

Then why did you reply to my post?

 

[Artful Revealer]

Then why did you reply to my post?

You didn't specify it was about face coverings, unless that's what you meant with "veil coverings".

 

[Kung Fu]

You're projecting your own bias unto me. Now give one name of an Arab legal book found in Italy that could be a source of western law or show some historical reference where western law has directly taken from Islam or Arabs. Otherwise you have no evidence, unlike the Justinian Code.

What's the point? You'll throw out another similar remark like "is he on some king's payroll". Go play your word games with someone else mate.

You mean the fragments of the Justinian Code where's there's no evidence of them ever directly applying it.

 

[Kung Fu]

You didn't specify it was about face coverings, unless that's what you meant with "veil coverings".

That's exactly what I meant. It was a reply to Rainerann who keeps saying that Muslim women wear burqas and niqabs because it's commanded in the Quran. I was tired of writing out niqab and burqa every single time so I used "veil coverings".

 

[Artful Revealer]

I agree that they are trying to divide us, which is exactly why I think that excessive worrying about "Islamization of the West" is just another way of seeding hatred against another culture.

What about seeding hatred for our culture? Have you read DesertRose's opinion piece? Not only does it misrepresent our history or exaggerate the injustices, it seems to give plenty of reasons to Muslims not to like the West and most of it is clearly rooted in indoctrination, a lot of it even coming from western media and public schools with their exaggerated stories on the evils of colonialism, the crusades or the inquisition.

Pew Research did a study on the relationship between Westerners and Muslims a while ago and found that Britain was the least Islamophobic country in Europe, yet at the same time British Muslims had the most aversion towards their host country and the West in general, showing that the more tolerant a society is towards Islam and Muslims, the more it will embolden muslims against that society. This study was taken more than a decade ago, so god knows what the situation is today.

No it does not negate it, but again you have to look at who really benefits from this. If they are trying to spread Islam by killing people in a such a way, then they are doing a terrible job of it because they will only get more hated. The CIA has been known to foment unrest in a bunch of different countries such as those in the Middle-East, just to get easier access to the oil there. Isn't it convenient that terrorism has helped them tremendously in pillaging Iraq shortly after 9/11? What about Afghanistan and the oil pipelines installed after the US invaded it? I would rather focus on that than an alleged Islamic invasion.

I have spent almost 15 years denouncing the Iraq invasion and destabilisations around the world. Just because that is a problem deserving attention doesn't mean that Islamisation of the West is not. They are both problems. Moreover, the destabilisations in the Middle East have led to more Islam in the region, not less. Iraq was a secular state under Hussein. Syria has been a secular state under the Assad dynasty. Egypt was secular under Mubarak before the US helped the Muslim Brotherhood into power. So even the Middle East has been going through some form of Islamisation itself.

If the Iraq was meant for easier access to the oil, how come the highest peak of Iraq oil import into the USA was in 2002, a year before the Iraq invasion? See the graph yourself. If the USA has now easier and cheaper access to oil from the Middle East, why did the import rates drop and why did the USA invest so much in the shale oil industry to get less dependent on oil from the Persian Gulf? Clearly there are reasons beyond oil for what has happened in the Middle East.

Yet none of this addresses the issue that the future of the West, and Europe in particular, is Islamic if things continue the way they are. Average birth rate of Europeans (1.5) has been below the necessary target (2.1) to maintain European population levels since the 1960s, while the birth rate of European muslims have been ranging from 2.2 to 3+. Add to that the waves of immigration from the Islamic world into Europe and Islamisation is the result of a simple math exercise.

 

[Artful Revealer]

That's exactly what I meant. It was a reply to Rainerann who keeps saying that Muslim women wear burqas and niqabs because it's commanded in the Quran. I was tired of writing out niqab and burqa every single time so I used "veil coverings".

Okay, my bad then. I take back what I said.

 

[Artful Revealer]

What's the point? You'll throw out another similar remark like "is he on some king's payroll". Go play your word games with someone else mate.

You mean the fragments of the Justinian Code where's there's no evidence of them ever directly applying it.

Look man, you need to show some intellectual integrity. It is you who said the western legal system adopted the presumption of innocence from Islam (first unsubstantiated claim) and that it started in Spain (second unsubstantiated claim) and that that was the reason why there were many Arab legal works found in Italy (third unsubstantiated claim). If you make the claim "many Arab legal works were found in Italy" as proof that the western presumption of innocence comes from the Arabs, but you can't name any of those Arab legal works found in Italy, then you're basically just stating things without backing them up and expecting people to take your word for it.

 

[Artful Revealer]

At the moment they seem to be using the Christian world to do their bidding.

The masonic world you mean. I don't see a lot of state-sponsored Christianisation around the world (except in Russia), and definitely not in the West or the Middle East.

 

[Kung Fu]

What about seeding hatred for our culture? Have you read DesertRose's opinion piece? Not only does it misrepresent our history or exaggerate the injustices, it seems to give plenty of reasons to Muslims not to like the West and most of it is clearly rooted in indoctrination, a lot of it even coming from western media and public schools with their exaggerated stories on the evils of colonialism, the crusades or the inquisition.

What Western culture do Muslims dislike?

Colonialism was evil. Do you think colonialism was a good thing?

Pew Research

did a study on the relationship between Westerners and Muslims a while ago and found that Britain was the least Islamophobic country in Europe, yet at the same time British Muslims had the most aversion towards their host country and the West in general, showing that the more tolerant a society is towards Islam and Muslims, the more it will embolden muslims against that society. This study was taken more than a decade ago, so god knows what the situation is today.

Perhaps there's more to this than meets the eye. Perhaps the Muslims within Britain feel discriminated. There's a lot of scholarly work on the systemic racism of Muslims of Pakistani background. For example, the Jews of Stamford Hill do a lot of things that are not "western friendly" but yet no one says anything to them while Muslims get attacked for their views all the time.

I have spent almost 15 years denouncing the Iraq invasion and destabilisations around the world. Just because that is a problem deserving attention doesn't mean that Islamisation of the West is not. They are both problems. Moreover, the destabilisations in the Middle East have led to more Islam in the region, not less. Iraq was a secular state under Hussein. Syria has been a secular state under the Assad dynasty. Egypt was secular under Mubarak before the US helped the Muslim Brotherhood into power. So even the Middle East has been going through some form of Islamisation itself.

What kind of "more Islam"? I can go and kill other Muslims and then say this is the true Islam but that doesn't mean it's true. The West fought hard to bring down the Ottoman Caliphate but yet are propping up these "mysterious" "Islamic" groups in the ME. Seems contradictory to me unless these "Islamic" groups created by and funded by the CIA and other elite groups are not really Islamic in nature.

If the Iraq was meant for easier access to the oil, how come the highest peak of Iraq oil import into the USA was in 2002, a year before the Iraq invasion? See the graph yourself. If the USA has now easier and cheaper access to oil from the Middle East, why did the import rates drop and why did the USA invest so much in the shale oil industry to get less dependent on oil from the Persian Gulf? Clearly there are reasons beyond oil for what has happened in the Middle East.

Corporations and oil companies didn't go into Iraq only for oil or to sell oil only to the US but to anyone they can whether it be under the table or over. Corporations have loyalty to no country.

Yet none of this addresses the issue that the future of the West, and Europe in particular, is Islamic if things continue the way they are. Average birth rate of Europeans (1.5) has been below the necessary target (2.1) to maintain European population levels since the 1960s, while the birth rate of European muslims have been ranging from 2.2 to 3+. Add to that the waves of immigration from the Islamic world into Europe and Islamisation is the result of a simple math exercise.

If white Europeans have low birth rates how is that the fault of Muslims? By the looks of it if the birth rates of white Europeans persist at the current ratio then there would be no Europe so perhaps you should be thanking the Muslims.

Again, when Europe and America stop invading Muslim countries and or setting up puppet governments then perhaps the wave of of immigration will stop as well.

 

[Kung Fu]

Look man, you need to show some intellectual integrity. It is you who said the western legal system adopted the presumption of innocence from Islam (first unsubstantiated claim) and that it started in Spain (second unsubstantiated claim) and that that was the reason why there were many Arab legal works found in Italy (third unsubstantiated claim). If you make the claim "many Arab legal works were found in Italy" as proof that the western presumption of innocence comes from the Arabs, but you can't name any of those Arab legal works found in Italy, then you're basically just stating things without backing them up and expecting people to take your word for it.

This is how it is. I showed you a portion of an academic article by an academic and you didn't accept it. I showed you Spain was ruled by Muslims and therefore, logically speaking, must have used Islamic Law to rule. Southern Italy was ruled by Muslims and there are some works that show a lot of European work was translated from Arab to Sicilian (I have some stuff written by another academic on the matter of Italy but it would be a futile attempt on my end because you won't accept it). Let's say the Germanic tribes began to implement the rule on the presumption of innocence with the finding of the Digest in the medieval period well this incidentally happens to be during the height of Muslim power and influence via the interaction with Muslims during the same period.

 

[Kung Fu]

The masonic world you mean. I don't see a lot of state-sponsored Christianisation around the world (except in Russia), and definitely not in the West or the Middle East.

To many it's just a bastardized version of Christianity but Christianity nonetheless to the common eye. However, we know better and the same can be said for the different militant "Islamic" groups being funded and used by the America and therefore their master Israel.

 

[Artful Revealer]

What Western culture do Muslims dislike?

The reoccurring common criticism coming from Muslims towards the West is that it is a godless society without transcendental values and universal morals. Muslims in Russia aren't as adversarial towards their host country as Muslims in the West are and the major difference between the two is that Russia again starts to live in symbiosis with God and Church and that Russians don't have a guilt culture constantly chastising themselves for whatever happened in the past. Muslims generally don't like weak self-loathing people, therefore they generally don't like western people. You are an excellent example of that.

Colonialism was evil. Do you think colonialism was a good thing?

I don't see it as black and white, no. Neither do I think that Colonialism is intrinsically evil, but that it depends on the actual consequences of what colonialism has produced. If you believe colonialism is or was intrinsically evil, you'll have to explain why.

Perhaps there's more to this than meets the eye. Perhaps the Muslims within Britain feel discriminated. There's a lot of scholarly work on the systemic racism of Muslims of Pakistani background. For example, the Jews of Stamford Hill do a lot of things that are not "western friendly" but yet no one says anything to them while Muslims get attacked for their views all the time.

What do the Jews of Stamford Hill do? I don't know about them.

What kind of systemic racism against Muslims does there exist in Britain? Of course there are works claiming there is systemic racism from white culture, because it has become a disease to blame everything on white people nowadays.

What kind of "more Islam"? I can go and kill other Muslims and then say this is the true Islam but that doesn't mean it's true. The West fought hard to bring down the Ottoman Caliphate but yet are propping up these "mysterious" "Islamic" groups in the ME. Seems contradictory to me unless these "Islamic" groups created by and funded by the CIA and other elite groups are not really Islamic in nature.

Well, they did bring down the Ottoman Caliphate when the population was approximately 15% to 20% Christian. One century later it's 2% Christian. They invaded Iraq and the Christian population of Iraq is now half of what it was before the invasion (from 6% to 3%) while the Muslim population went up to 97%. The international community destabilised Libya, Iraq and Syria with Muslim takfeer. It wasn't a Yezidi rebellion or a Christian rebellion, but a Muslim one. If I put you across a takfir to debate Islam, he might accuse you of not following true Islam just the same. To me it's irrelevant. Both proclaim to practice / believe true Islam.

Corporations and oil companies didn't go into Iraq only for oil or to sell oil only to the US but to anyone they can whether it be under the table or over. Corporations have loyalty to no country.

If these corporations have no loyalty to a country, then no country can be accused of invading Iraq for oil.

If white Europeans have low birth rates how is that the fault of Muslims? By the looks of it if the birth rates of white Europeans persist at the current ratio then there would be no Europe so perhaps you should be thanking the Muslims.

Nowhere did I say low fertility rates were the fault of Muslims.

Again, when Europe and America stop invading Muslim countries and or setting up puppet governments then perhaps the wave of of immigration will stop as well.

The wave of immigration is not due to western invasions. First it was labour immigration, then it was family reunification, then it was economic migration permitted by Europe's freedom of movement. The argument that migrants are coming here because their countries have been invaded by the West is a huge lie. Most are not refugees, but economic migrants; they migrate to the West because of the free handouts and housing they can receive here because in African or Middle Eastern countries they cannot profit from the same level of accommodation. When war refugees complain about their free internet connection not being fast enough, then I see no reason to feel any pity for them.

 

[Illuminized]

The masonic world you mean. I don't see a lot of state-sponsored Christianisation around the world (except in Russia), and definitely not in the West or the Middle East.

Paneuropean Union development:

Kalergi, Winston Churchill, Otto von Habsburg, Georges Pompidou, Louis Terrenoire, Charles de Gaulle, Albert Einstein, Fridtjof Nansen, Johan Ludwig Mowinckel, Thomas Mann, Franz Werfel, Bronisław Huberman, Aristide Briand, Konrad Adenauer, Sigmund Freud, Benedetto Croce, Bruno Kreisky, Léon Blum, Duncan Sandys, Robert Schuman, Alcide De Gasperi, Paul-Henri Spaak, Harold Macmillan, Bertrand Russell, François Mitterrand, Albert Coppé, ☭Altiero Spinelli, Walburga Habsburg Douglas, Jean Monnet, Joseph Bech, Johan Beyen, Sicco Mansholt, Salvador de Madariaga, Jacques Delors, Lorenzo Natali, Mário Soares, Pierre Werner, Walter Hallstein, Louis Armand, Jean Rey, Helmut Kohl, Herman Van Rompuy

Freemason
Jewish (in Churchill's case, he wasn't Jewish but a Zionist)
Christian Democrat
☭Communist

It really surprised me at first. I'm sure there's much more where that came from.

 

[Artful Revealer]

This is how it is. I showed you a portion of an academic article by an academic and you didn't accept it. I showed you Spain was ruled by Muslims and therefore, logically speaking, must have used Islamic Law to rule. Southern Italy was ruled by Muslims and there are some works that show a lot of European work was translated from Arab to Sicilian (I have some stuff written by another academic on the matter of Italy but it would be a futile attempt on my end because you won't accept it). Let's say the Germanic tribes began to implement the rule on the presumption of innocence with the finding of the Digest in the medieval period well this incidentally happens to be during the height of Muslim power and influence via the interaction with Muslims during the same period.

Still no example of an Arab legal book. I rest my case.

 

[Artful Revealer]

Paneuropean Union development:

Kalergi, Winston Churchill, Otto von Habsburg, Georges Pompidou, Louis Terrenoire, Charles de Gaulle, Albert Einstein, Fridtjof Nansen, Johan Ludwig Mowinckel, Thomas Mann, Franz Werfel, Bronisław Huberman, Aristide Briand, Konrad Adenauer, Sigmund Freud, Benedetto Croce, Bruno Kreisky, Léon Blum, Duncan Sandys, Robert Schuman, Alcide De Gasperi, Paul-Henri Spaak, Harold Macmillan, Bertrand Russell, François Mitterrand, Albert Coppé, ☭Altiero Spinelli, Walburga Habsburg Douglas, Jean Monnet, Joseph Bech, Johan Beyen, Sicco Mansholt, Salvador de Madariaga, Jacques Delors, Lorenzo Natali, Mário Soares, Pierre Werner, Walter Hallstein, Louis Armand, Jean Rey, Helmut Kohl, Herman Van Rompuy

Freemason
Jewish (in Churchill's case, he was a Zionist)
Christian Democrat
☭Communist

What's your point?

 

[Illuminized]

What's your point?

This:

At the moment they seem to be using the Christian world to do their bidding.

It's no secret that the Catholic Church and evangelists openly colludes with Israel. The mass of Christians, typically American, Zionist, or Alt-Right, support Israel. I've talked with a handful of Alt-Right adherents, it's mind-boggling how they claim to be fighting Jews yet support their state.

 

[Artful Revealer]

To many it's just a bastardized version of Christianity but Christianity nonetheless to the common eye. However, we know better and the same can be said for the different militant "Islamic" groups being funded and used by the America and therefore their master Israel.

Again, this is false equivalence. These Islamic groups are/were funded by the Gulf States. The Gulf States seek to establish a caliphate. These Islamic groups seek to establish a caliphate = common interest. If the Gulf States and these jihadis are manipulated by the Israelis, then that would mean the Israelis see benefit in the establishment of an Islamic Caliphate.

Do Freemasons or Israelis contribute in any way or form to the establishment of a Christian theocracy anywhere?