The Got Thread!!! (spoiler Alert.. Just In Case!)

[Aero]

I think the writers got bored or grew disillusioned with the characters. To put it simply, after 6 seasons they were left with very few strong males. I mean think about it. In the end, they have a dwarf, 2 dudes who were literally dickless, and a guy with 1 hand.

The only dominant males are Jon Snow (Dummy), The Hound (Dirtbag), and Euron (Part-time Dues Ex Machina). So there is nowhere else for these characters to go. Thus their solutions seem to be having the female characters do total 180s. Grrr

Me Vs HBO...

 

[justjess]

I don’t think Jon is dumb. Every character has a fatal flaw and his appears to be his honor/honesty. He does not know or want to know how to play the game. It is morally repugnant to him to play games at all. It’s a respectable quality typically but in this world it’s impractical.

I don’t think the show really ever had any strong male characters tbh. That was what made it intriguing. This shouldn’t have been a stumbling block, it should have been par for the course.

I’m supposed to go to a big wrap party thing next week and I’m at the point I don’t even want to. It doesn’t even seem worth the inconvenience.

 

[Aero]

I don’t think Jon is dumb. Every character has a fatal flaw and his appears to be his honor/honesty. He does not know or want to know how to play the game. It is morally repugnant to him to play games at all. It’s a respectable quality typically but in this world it’s impractical.

I don’t think the show really ever had any strong male characters tbh. That was what made it intriguing. This shouldn’t have been a stumbling block, it should have been par for the course.

I’m supposed to go to a big wrap party thing next week and I’m at the point I don’t even want to. It doesn’t even seem worth the inconvenience.

Agree with most of that.

But I still think Jon Snow is dumb. I say that because he doesn't know how to wield his power. This is the guy who came back from the dead, he's a fucking legend. Yet he constantly displays little control over people that supposedly love him. I'm just saying if honor was that important he should have stopped this tragedy. Plus his character was literally warned in every scene leading up to it.

Sorry, not sorry. This has been a complete dumbing down of everything people liked about the show. Character development should mean something. You can't just have characters forget about all the shit that's actually happened.

 

[Damien50]

Agree with most of that.

But I still think Jon Snow is dumb. I say that because he doesn't know how to wield his power. This is the guy who came back from the dead, he's a fucking legend. Yet he constantly displays little control over people that supposedly love him. I'm just saying if honor was that important he should have stopped this tragedy. Plus his character was literally warned in every scene leading up to it.

Sorry, not sorry. This has been a complete dumbing down of everything people liked about the show. Character development should mean something. You can't just have characters forget about all the shit that's actually happened.

I think a lot of the issues are that this hasn't been canon but made for tv rather. Dorne plays such a huge role in the books, minor character narratives become important for perspective like the readers have secrets that the main characters don't, and it's essentially been an adaptation rather than a copy.

I read an excerpt from WoW that talks about Euron raping his priestly brother as a child and wielding magic. Catlyn is alive as lady Stoneheart, etc. It would have been better if the seasons were longer but I kept hearing budget constraints and let's be honest: everyone really wanted to get paid lol.

I think the show is good but the books are infinitely better. I appreciate the effort but Martin needs to hurry and finish WoW because the show doesn't do his books justice but it is a nice alternate telling that keeps me complacent and not standing in front of Martin's house screaming to hurry up.

 

[Colonel Valerio]

That's in the books, too. George RR Martin made the writers tell him who John Snow's parents were before he signed off on them jumping ahead of the books. The books and the TV show will turn out differently, but Snow's a Targaryen nonetheless.

I don’t care if it’s in the books, secret parentage is a trite plot device and it ruined what made Jon special.

 

[Colonel Valerio]

I think they are just trying to cram way too much in to way too short a time. There are entirely too many story lines to be wrapped up in 6 episodes. Nuance is being sacrificed in the name of expediency.

That is also true, they just didn’t have the time or energy in the last two years.

I’m just upset because they should have committed to the mad queen thing last year, why have her initially refuse to go total war when she had three dragons and a full army? Why have her save the North at great personal cost just to slaughter everyone 2 episodes later?

We went through 7 seasons of her resisting her worse impulses and family curse just for this, to have her called to unstable and needing a “level headed” man to run things, which is so grossly sexist.

 

[Damien50]

That is also true, they just didn’t have the time or energy in the last two years.

I’m just upset because they should have committed to the mad queen thing last year, why have her initially refuse to go total war when she had three dragons and a full army? Why have her save the North at great personal cost just to slaughter everyone 2 episodes later?

We went through 7 seasons of her resisting her worse impulses and family curse just for this, to have her called to unstable and needing a “level headed” man to run things, which is so grossly sexist.

Varys mentions Jon being unable to control her which was Sanssa's concern but Tyrion felt a marriage would balance her out. Everything she did was to get the throne and as the directors had said, had she been treated better from Pentos onward she wouldn't have become this woman.

Rather I don't think a story has to reflect the times and that is what makes it good and why there are other stories we can watch that better fit narratives we enjoy.

Jon has always seemed like a king and it felt inevitable because this is a male dominated society that acknowledges men over women. Had she trained like Arya and not relied on loyalty and dragons she might have been more respected but she rarely and truly never stuck her neck out for anyone the way Jon, Arya, Sansa, Sandor, Tyrion, or even Hodor have. She wanted to be a queen but never took the time to understand Westeros always focused on what she believed belonged to her.

 

[Colonel Valerio]

Varys mentions Jon being unable to control her which was Sanssa's concern but Tyrion felt a marriage would balance her out. Everything she did was to get the throne and as the directors had said, had she been treated better from Pentos onward she wouldn't have become this woman.

Rather I don't think a story has to reflect the times and that is what makes it good and why there are other stories we can watch that better fit narratives we enjoy.

Jon has always seemed like a king and it felt inevitable because this is a male dominated society that acknowledges men over women. Had she trained like Arya and not relied on loyalty and dragons she might have been more respected but she rarely and truly never stuck her neck out for anyone the way Jon, Arya, Sansa, Sandor, Tyrion, or even Hodor have. She wanted to be a queen but never took the time to understand Westeros always focused on what she believed belonged to her.

I understand where you’re coming from, but Sansa really? Who has she exactly stuck her neck out for?

Dany was on the backs of dragons in combat multiple times while Sansa hid in a tomb, and despite no training was fighting with Jorah after she crashed.

I would have been ok with mad queen thing but they should have fully committed to it earlier.

 

[Aero]

I think a lot of the issues are that this hasn't been canon but made for tv rather. Dorne plays such a huge role in the books, minor character narratives become important for perspective like the readers have secrets that the main characters don't, and it's essentially been an adaptation rather than a copy.

I read an excerpt from WoW that talks about Euron raping his priestly brother as a child and wielding magic. Catlyn is alive as lady Stoneheart, etc. It would have been better if the seasons were longer but I kept hearing budget constraints and let's be honest: everyone really wanted to get paid lol.

I think the show is good but the books are infinitely better. I appreciate the effort but Martin needs to hurry and finish WoW because the show doesn't do his books justice but it is a nice alternate telling that keeps me complacent and not standing in front of Martin's house screaming to hurry up.

What you said deserves consideration. But my instinct is telling me there's something off with the whole thing. Like how could there be budget problems? It was practically the biggest show in the world. A cultural phenomenon even. So I just highly doubt there would be budget problems in reality.

The bottom line is Game of Thrones was like one of those Lannister gold mines. And the idea that it was anywhere near depleted doesn't make sense. Now maybe they were trying to squeeze it and go out with a bang, but they missed very badly. They buried the gold under the huge annihilation that was Kings Landing. I mean none of the story arcs matter anymore. Vanished into thin air, and that bugs me on multiple levels.

 

[UnderAlienControl]

Game of Thrones: Season 8 Episode 5 - Review

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[Damien50]

I understand where you’re coming from, but Sansa really? Who has she exactly stuck her neck out for?

Dany was on the backs of dragons in combat multiple times while Sansa hid in a tomb, and despite no training was fighting with Jorah after she crashed.

I would have been ok with mad queen thing but they should have fully committed to it earlier.

My bad, she hasn't lol. Though I think she showed more compassion or care at least in regards to northerners than Dany but that should have been expected. I don't find Dany complicated even in the books but rather living in her own fantasy created by her brother and strengthened by her dragons.

Sansa by comparison went through in a sense much of the same as Dany but seems to see the world for what it is as a woman rather than an entitled child with dragons to bolster her claim through fear. Sansa earned respect, while Dany demands it and Dany is right: the north will never love her. She's an outsider expecting things in a harsh environment where most earn and take care of their own but she thinks all she had to do was save them and it should be enough.

Dany isn't a military leader, she isn't a leader, she carries titles and entitlement around like badges of honor with her illusions of grandeur. She truly fights one time as everyone in Western should have fought the night king but that doesn't make her deserving of anything more than her life.

Because I see it as an alternate telling I think the pacing is allowed to be hectic and between the battle of Winterfell, losing Jorah/Missandei, she needed something to take her loneliness and push her to the edge. I think she truly would have been different if her brother hadn't abused her and she had met Jon under different circumstances and not as the rightful heir to Westeros. Everyone seems to want this right, this entitlement, but who outside of Jon and Vary's actually care about the realm?

 

[UnderAlienControl]

And now, a view from the other side. These are for you, brother Aero:

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Game of Thrones Season 8 EP5 (The Bells of Stupidity) Review, Critiques, Anger

17 Details In 'Game Of Thrones' Season 8 Episode 5 You Might Have Missed

 

[Damien50]

What you said deserves consideration. But my instinct is telling me there's something off with the whole thing. Like how could there be budget problems? It was practically the biggest show in the world. A cultural phenomenon even. So I just highly doubt there would be budget problems in reality.

The bottom line is Game of Thrones was like one of those Lannister gold mines. And the idea that it was anywhere near depleted doesn't make sense. Now maybe they were trying to squeeze it and go out with a bang, but they missed very badly. They buried the gold under the huge annihilation that was Kings Landing. I mean none of the story arcs matter anymore. Vanished into thin air, and that bugs me on multiple levels.

https://www.denofgeek.com/us/tv/245403/game-of-thrones-book-characters-not-in-the-show

I could theorize that Martin allowed this alternate telling to capitalize off of two forms of revenue giving non readers a taste and keeping readers complacent. This is the real conspiracy guys

 

[Thunderian]

I don’t care if it’s in the books, secret parentage is a trite plot device and it ruined what made Jon special.

Normally I would agree, but in this case it's actually relevant to the story.

 

[Aero]

I keep hearing the argument that Daenerys was "alone". And I just think it's total garbage.

The entire series she was focused on the Iron Throne. She was never seeking companionship, or love until they made her character do a total 180. I mean her and her brother fled Westeros with nothing. She had no real companions until she hatched the dragons.

So she could handle basically being sold as a slave and raped. But she doesn't break down until she's leading an entire Army into Kings Landing. LOL, Ok guys. She's so alone on top of a dragon overlooking her huge army. Yes, she wants to be loved but kills all the people who might end up loving her.

 

[Damien50]

I keep hearing the argument that Daenerys was "alone". And I just think it's total garbage.

The entire series she was focused on the Iron Throne. She was never seeking companionship, or love until they made her character do a total 180. I mean her and her brother fled Westeros with nothing. She had no real companions until she hatched the dragons.

So she could handle basically being sold as a slave and raped. But she doesn't break down until she's leading an entire Army into Kings Landing. LOL, Ok guys. She's so alone on top of a dragon overlooking her huge army. Yes, she wants to be loved but kills all the people who might end up loving her.

Her own mental isolation could be her madness. She may be surrounded by followers but no one aside from her dragons can give her what she thinks belongs to her and that is all that matters. Her ambition makes her lonely and isolates her from morality, sound decisions, and love from anyone.

I don't think she really wanted love after Drogo, just the iron throne and everything else was irrelevant. Where it gets dicey is we're dealing with an alternate story that wasn't nearly as fleshed out as the books and without that background things look inconsistent. I don't understand why she destroyed King's landing and hopefully it will be explained later but she made herself lower than her Dothraki and their pillaging for the sake of ambition and entitlement. She was never fit to rule and seeing the destruction through Arya kind of solidified that narrative as far as the show in concerned.

 

[Vytas]

"Sandor thank you"
I finally watched the episode...sigh...It starts with little girl who is dressed like a queen of dragons going to the kitchen to wash dishes... Later most mysterious and most secretive man throughout many seasons, at one point arguably most powerful too, decides to just roll over and die...Yeah that makes sense, but he committed vicious crime of having ears and receiving the news and talking about it to a person who knew them already. And later it got worse, too lazy to comment on such nonsense. One scene i liked was hound fighting his brother, even though it was obvious that it ends with both of them falling down. All characters lost what made them who they are, and says and does stuff which doesn't fit their personalities in the slightest and doesn't make any sense.

 

[Aero]

Her own mental isolation could be her madness. She may be surrounded by followers but no one aside from her dragons can give her what she thinks belongs to her and that is all that matters. Her ambition makes her lonely and isolates her from morality, sound decisions, and love from anyone.

I don't think she really wanted love after Drogo, just the iron throne and everything else was irrelevant. Where it gets dicey is we're dealing with an alternate story that wasn't nearly as fleshed out as the books and without that background things look inconsistent. I don't understand why she destroyed King's landing and hopefully it will be explained later but she made herself lower than her Dothraki and their pillaging for the sake of ambition and entitlement. She was never fit to rule and seeing the destruction through Arya kind of solidified that narrative as far as the show in concerned.

She threw her ambition out the window though. Literally destroyed the thing she wanted with zero justification.

This is a character that never really bonded with anyone. So the idea of her not handling isolation is mind-boggling to me. From her first introduction, she was isolated and alone. She always handled her losses and her wins. Until the writers decided she couldn't. Sure, most of us probably saw this coming. We just thought it would be cool, with some sort of moral gray area there to justify what she was doing.

 

[Damien50]

She threw her ambition out the window though. Literally destroyed the thing she wanted with zero justification.

This is a character that never really bonded with anyone. So the idea of her not handling isolation is mind-boggling to me. From her first introduction, she was isolated and alone. She always handled her losses and her wins. Until the writers decided she couldn't. Sure, most of us probably saw this coming. We just thought it would be cool, with some sort of moral gray area there to justify what she was doing.

From the novel's perspective this was a13 year old girl that has been through a lot and honestly probably lacks the maturity to have dragons or a throne.

She bonded deeply with Drogo and that could have been Stockholm syndrome or genuine love but no man ever received that love from her after Drogo.

Something I had been pondering was: what if her destruction of King's landing was just her narcissism and the idea of knowing the throne was hers and she could do as she pleased. When she listened to her advisers in Mereen she never really improved anything and by telling Jon, that violence would be her choice, she chose ruling with fear over love. Love never did anything for her from her perspective but she knows fear gets things done and looking over King's landing, realizing she had accomplished her goal, she solidified her claim through fire and death. Who would rise to strike her down now? Fear would accomplish what love could heal later and Dany has never been about earning anything.

I enjoyed watching the destruction from the peasants perspective and seeing a glimpse of what the ancestors of 300 years ago experienced. Almost in like two fold way, killing Varys and Varys probably telling many people who Jon truly is and probably knowing she would resort to violence, Varys ultimately may have accomplished his goal. Tyrion refuses to understand, Jon refuses to understand and now they both see.

 

[justjess]

I read some military persons opinion that what she did was calculated as a show of force so people wouldn’t press jons claim.. as opposed to “mad” which might be why she was crying just before idk