The Failure of man to recognize His Adamic Nature.

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#1
Man thinks of himself as not all that bad. But God knows man, and so does the born again believer. Romans 3:10- 18 describes the Adamic nature or natural man. He is hopelessly uncapable of fellowship in his natural state. And this goes for every human being! (Rom. 3:19-20; 5:12-21). In the Scriptural teaching in most Churches of Cain and Abel, It is taught that the reason God rejected Cain's sacrifice was because it was the wrong sacrifice compared to Able's. But the sacrifice was not the cause of the rejection of Cain or the acceptance of Able. It was what was in the heart of each brother that God looked at, and Scripture tells us that Cain had an evil heart, whereas Able had a righteous heart. Cain sacrificed his own works as to please God (He was a tiller of the ground) , But Cain knew he was a sinner before God and plead a sacrifice of blood of the lamb for mercy from the Lord. (Gen. 4:1-7; 1 John 3:11-15). You must be born again! BTW, Christ was not born again but the same Christ was risen from the grave with the same body...even having the pierced hands, but a glorified body.
  • God has given man commands to lead a Godly life and to test man: In the Garden, before He disobeyed God...He was innocent...Not perfect, had he been perfect, he would not have sinned. And He had not fallen, for the only thing I could find who fell in the OT was Satan (Isa. 14:12). So Adam sinned by his disobedience. His State in the beginning then was that he was innocent (Gen. 1:26-29).
  • His responsibility was to dress the garden and not eat of the one tree (Gen. 2:16-17)
  • His Failure was (Gen. 3:6
  • The Judgment (our Judgment) was (Gen. 3:24)
  • And the consequences (Gen. 3:14-19; Rom. 5:12, 18)
  • The next test was Conscience; From sin to the flood
  • His state at the beginning (Gen. 3:22)
  • His responsibility (Gen. 4:7a)
  • His failure (Gen. 6:5,11-12)
  • Judgment (Gen. 7:11, 12, 23)
  • This is how I teach the Scriptures......Is this what you call Dispensationalism?
 





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#2
The axiom of this ideology is very reductionist in nature. To see ones self as separate from god.

How can man exist outside of god?? How can anything exist outside of god?
 





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#3
The axiom of this ideology is very reductionist in nature. To see ones self as separate from god.

How can man exist outside of god?? How can anything exist outside of god?
It Can't! Every person is already dead without Christ. (under condemnation) God is going to destroy everything that is not His...It is called the WRATH of GOD. That is what we are saved from.
 





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#4
Jesus came into the world, so Judas could slip up on account of him and receive the worst fate of all time.

not a single fuck given for Judas..and they say Jesus saves.
 





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#7
I don't believe that Adamic is a word.
Its strange, I agree. It is a word, though--

Adamic
Also found in: Wikipedia.

A`dam´ic
a.
1.
Of or pertaining to Adam, or resembling him.

Adamic earth
a name given to common red clay, from a notion that Adam means red earth.

Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary, published 1913 by G. & C. Merriam Co.
 





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#9
People can choose to reject Jesus and accept satan. Judas did. "Satan entered into him" at the Last Supper and Jesus said "What you are about to do, do quickly." Jesus knew Judas would betray Him and loved him anyway, chose him anyway.

That being said, if Judas had repented and not despaired and killed himself, I believe Jesus would've accepted him back. He chose to walk away. He chose satan. Jesus loves us but will not force us to love Him in return. We're not robots. We have choices and can choose wisely or foolishly.

Coercive love is manipulation. God does not do that. People do unfortunately.
 





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#10
People can choose to reject Jesus and accept satan. Judas did. "Satan entered into him" at the Last Supper and Jesus said "What you are about to do, do quickly." Jesus knew Judas would betray Him and loved him anyway, chose him anyway.

That being said, if Judas had repented and not despaired and killed himself, I believe Jesus would've accepted him back. He chose to walk away. He chose satan. Jesus loves us but will not force us to love Him in return. We're not robots. We have choices and can choose wisely or foolishly.

Coercive love is manipulation. God does not do that. People do unfortunately.
Hi Dalit, Christ did give Judas opportunity to repent. Here is one of the most touching things of Christ in the Bible. Christ still reaches out to Judas in friendship while Judas is about to betray Him. (Matt. 26:47-50) ……………And Jesus said," FRIEND, why art thou come?
 





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#11
You think Jesus came into the world for the express purpose of damning Judas?
I'm just playing devils advocate and pointing out that this whole idea of Jesus being the saviour of the world can't be true when one of his own disciples received the worst date possible on account of him.

Think about it
At some point judas became a follower of Jesus. Jesus didn't impart anything on Judas that was able to save him
..from himself
Whether he acted on blind greed or he lacked faith/trust in God's plan..the magnitude of his error came right under the shadow of jesus.
Yet Christians want to sell this idea that somehow they are saved.
I don't buy it.

I feel bad for Judas.
 





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#12
People can choose to reject Jesus and accept satan. Judas did. "Satan entered into him" at the Last Supper and Jesus said "What you are about to do, do quickly." Jesus knew Judas would betray Him and loved him anyway, chose him anyway.

That being said, if Judas had repented and not despaired and killed himself, I believe Jesus would've accepted him back. He chose to walk away. He chose satan. Jesus loves us but will not force us to love Him in return. We're not robots. We have choices and can choose wisely or foolishly.

Coercive love is manipulation. God does not do that. People do unfortunately.
So the threat of eternal punishment is not coercive?

How about that idea that God is so confident when he reveals himself completely and the purifying fires of his wrath burn all the drose from unbelievers that they will all willfully choose to love and serve him. God is confident that his love, grace, mercy and punishment with a purpose will win over even the hardest of hearts. People choose to reject Jesus in this age out of ignorance and because Satan has deceived them. In the ages to come all will bow down and confess him as Lord. Not out of coercion, but because it will be obvious that God is worthy and Satan is a looser.

It's amazing how little faith Christians actually have that God could do what he said he desires to do (Convince all mankind that he is worthy and reconcile all of creation).
 





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#13
Hi Dalit, Christ did give Judas opportunity to repent. Here is one of the most touching things of Christ in the Bible. Christ still reaches out to Judas in friendship while Judas is about to betray Him. (Matt. 26:47-50) ……………And Jesus said," FRIEND, why art thou come?
So Jesus still called Judas friend knowing he would betray him, but will rejoice at Judas suffering eternally in hell? I don't buy it. Maybe Jesus still looked at Judas as a friend because Jesus knew that he would lay down his life for all his friends. Even though Judas died in sin, there is hope yet in the ages to come for him to be reconciled to God.

The Bible says God is able to do more than we can ask or imagine. So why is it that Christians don't imagine that God can reconcile all of mankind in the ages to come. I can imagine it, so why can't God do it? The only thing that is stopping anyone from believing he can, is the pagan concept of hell that was introduced by the same "church" that in the 2nd century started calling it elders "priests", in the 3rd century instituted sacerdotal mass, claiming the unbloody sacrifice of Jesus Christ, in 300 A.D. endorsed prayers for the dead, in 375 A.D. reverenced angels, dead saints, and images, in 431 A.D. exalted Mary as the "Mother of God", in 526 A.D. instituted extreme unction and in 533 A.D. renounced the doctrine of ultimate reconciliation.

The Bible does nothing to dissuade believers from accepting that God can save all men. It's only false translation and interpretation of the Bible to support the doctrines of man, that keep beleivers from accepting univerisal reconcilation.
 





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#14
I understand, yet I cannot agree with universalism if that is what you're espousing.

Yes, every knee will bow and tongue confess Jesus as Lord (John 14:11), but does that automatically make everyone belong to Jesus? Even the demons tremble (James 2:19), hence why in His name they can be cast out. In Zechariah 14, in the New Jerusalem, all nations will worship YHVH yet if they will not celebrate Sukkot, they'll miss rain for the land (v.16-21). So that leads me to believe that maybe there will be unbelievers who submit to His Lordship yet do not have His name written on their hearts. Personally, I want to have His name written on my heart. So there's always opportunity but not everyone will be His.

I wish I could believe in universalism because I know it is His heart that all be saved (2 Peter 3:9): The Lord is not slow in keeping His promise, as some understand slowness. Instead He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance. Hell was made for the devil and his angels. Yet not everyone wants to serve Him. He's not going to force us to choose Him or accept His invitation. Would that really be love?

Just some thoughts.
 





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#15
So Jesus still called Judas friend knowing he would betray him, but will rejoice at Judas suffering eternally in hell? I don't buy it. Maybe Jesus still looked at Judas as a friend because Jesus knew that he would lay down his life for all his friends. Even though Judas died in sin, there is hope yet in the ages to come for him to be reconciled to God.

The Bible says God is able to do more than we can ask or imagine. So why is it that Christians don't imagine that God can reconcile all of mankind in the ages to come. I can imagine it, so why can't God do it? The only thing that is stopping anyone from believing he can, is the pagan concept of hell that was introduced by the same "church" that in the 2nd century started calling it elders "priests", in the 3rd century instituted sacerdotal mass, claiming the unbloody sacrifice of Jesus Christ, in 300 A.D. endorsed prayers for the dead, in 375 A.D. reverenced angels, dead saints, and images, in 431 A.D. exalted Mary as the "Mother of God", in 526 A.D. instituted extreme unction and in 533 A.D. renounced the doctrine of ultimate reconciliation.

The Bible does nothing to dissuade believers from accepting that God can save all men. It's only false translation and interpretation of the Bible to support the doctrines of man, that keep beleivers from accepting univerisal reconcilation.
It is not up to men to Judge God, He is sovereign. (Rom. 9:6-33) You should worry more about your judgement before Christ. With your hostility, you will never know Him.
 





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#16
The only thing that is stopping anyone from believing he can, is the pagan concept of hell that was introduced by the same "church"..
Matthew 25 41"Then He will say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels."

Hell is a hot place prepared for the fallen angels and their demon spawns.

But in the end a second death.

As in cease to be.

So no eternal torment.
 





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#17
I'm just playing devils advocate and pointing out that this whole idea of Jesus being the saviour of the world can't be true when one of his own disciples received the worst date possible on account of him.

Think about it
At some point judas became a follower of Jesus. Jesus didn't impart anything on Judas that was able to save him
..from himself
Whether he acted on blind greed or he lacked faith/trust in God's plan..the magnitude of his error came right under the shadow of jesus.
Yet Christians want to sell this idea that somehow they are saved.
I don't buy it.

I feel bad for Judas.
I think we would be awful people if we didn't feel bad for Judas...

Then Judas, who betrayed him, when he saw that Jesus was condemned, felt remorse, and returned the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders, saying, "I have sinned ... I betrayed innocent blood."


... He threw down the pieces of silver in the sanctuary, and departed. He went away and hanged himself.
-
But even before, we know Judas wanted to sell the perfume Mary used to anoint Jesus, for the money, so he could use it for himself---

... one of His disciples, Judas Iscariot, who was going to betray Him, asked, "Why wasn’t this perfume sold for three hundred denarii and the money given to the poor?”

Judas did not say this because he cared about the poor, but because he was a thief. As keeper of the money bag, he used to take from what was put into it
.

-

Three years he spent with Jesus and the other disciples-- three long years, and he sold his friend's life to the Enemy. Had he not felt regret and returned the money... if he had rather been killed by a falling stone while entertaining prostitutes and drinking wine, I wonder if we wouldn't feel so bad for Judas.

But God knows the heart. I do wonder why some are wired for unrepentant evil and shun salvation, while others, evil as we are, run straight to the Light.
 





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#18
@elsbet I totally get what he was...but the point still stands, Judas was worse off for knowing Jesus.
The whole argument of christianity over islam is that you are guaranteed salvation.
if it wasnt true for judas it most def isnt true for anyone else.
 





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#19
2 Peter 2

17These are wells without water, clouds that are carried with a tempest; to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever.18For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through muchwantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error.19While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage. 20For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. 21For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.22But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.