The egg and God

Lisa

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Yep and God doesnt change so if it was that way then, it will be that way forever till He rids the world of sin and makes it to where the only option people are offered is to do right.
Except that God loves people and doesn’t want them to be thrown into the lake of fire where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth....so He sent His Son to take the punishment for our sins and reconcile us to Him.

No, we can’t follow what is right..we are too big of sinners..God knows that and that’s why He sent His Son.

Thats animal sacrifice to be specific. Not human and not "god".

Oh and its not ONLY sacrifice that atoned for sin either as I've already shown.
‭‭1 Peter‬ ‭1:19‬ ‭
but with precious blood, as of a lamb unblemished and spotless, the blood of Christ.​

If Jesus was the final sacrifice then Ezekiel wouldnt have prophesied about a temple where God would dwell in Israel's midst FOREVER. A temple where blood SIN OFFERINGS would be made.
Verse please.

To Israelites the law was forever. I mean at least thats what Moses wrote. If you dont believe Moses, then of course you're not going to believe me.

And again, you cant say Isaiah 53 then leave out the offspring part. Jesus said those that follow the will of his father become his brother/mother. Said nothing of offspring. And later he said call NO ONE father except the one in heaven, yet now you call him father by saying you're his offspring? All you're doing is switching up your narrative as you go along...
Jesus fulfilled the law...He didn’t sin, so He was the unblemished sacrifice for sins.
Matthew‬ ‭5:17‬ ‭
Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill.
‭‭
I’m not switching up the narrative..I already showed that Jesus regarded non blood persons as family. Christians who follow Jesus are known as His offspring..we spring up from Him.
Galatians‬ ‭2:20‬ ‭
I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me.​
 
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There is no except. God doesnt change and thats that. So if "the one who sins, is the one that will be blotted out of my book" was the answer yesterday, that will be the answer today, and for evermore..

No, we can’t follow what is right..we are too big of sinners..God knows that and that’s why He sent His Son.
David was a literal murderer, and the Most High still spoke highly of him. God said the righteous man falls down 7 times but gets up 8. Perfection was NEVER expected from the Most High but it IS what we should aim for....

Verse please.
Verse? Try chapters. Chapters 40-48 is where the temple is prophesied and where it says there will be BLOOD offerings made in the temple. And that the Most High will ACCEPT them.. This temple Ezekiel prophesied about has never been built on earth..

Jesus fulfilled the law...
Theres nothing in the OT about the law being "fulfilled" then "done away" with... Again showing me NT verses trying to describe the OT, is like me showing you Quran verses trying to explain the NT.
 
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Theres nothing in the OT about the law being "fulfilled" then "done away" with... Again showing me NT verses trying to describe the OT, is like me showing you Quran verses trying to explain the NT.
And in fact there are many passages (which I could easily quote) not only in the Pentateuch but also in the Nevi'im, were it explicitly says that the Law will never be done away with, that the Law is eternal.

Jesus confirms this too:

For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.
(Matthew 5:18-20)


Paul is the one who decided that the law was suddenly abrogated because he was unable to sell pre-Christianity to non-Jews. It is true that antinomianism tends to be the thing that makes people stay with Christianity in the west because you can literally do almost anything and justify it.


Though I am free and belong to no one, I have made myself a slave to everyone, to win as many as possible. To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), so as to win those under the law. To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God’s law but am under Christ’s law), so as to win those not having the law. To the weak I became weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all people so that by all possible means I might save some. I do all this for the sake of the gospel, that I may share in its blessings.
(1 Corinthians 9:19-23)

That passage is basically Christianity (as opposed to Jesus and his teachings, which are Jewish) summed up, this is also at the heart of Christian missionary-ism too.
These people are not concerned with truth, they're only concerned with emotionalism and ideology.
 

Lisa

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There is no except. God doesnt change and thats that. So if "the one who sins, is the one that will be blotted out of my book" was the answer yesterday, that will be the answer today, and for evermore..
Sure there is, God loves people and is unwilling for people to perish which is why He sent His only begotten Son to save us. That’s pure love right there.

John‬ ‭15:13‬ ‭
Greater love has no one than this, that one lay down his life for his friends.
‭‭
David was a literal murderer, and the Most High still spoke highly of him. God said the righteous man falls down 7 times but gets up 8. Perfection was NEVER expected from the Most High but it IS what we should aim for....
You realize you contradicted yourself, right?

Verse? Try chapters. Chapters 40-48 is where the temple is prophesied and where it says there will be BLOOD offerings made in the temple. And that the Most High will ACCEPT them.. This temple Ezekiel prophesied about has never been built on earth..
I’ll have to think pray and think about this.


Theres nothing in the OT about the law being "fulfilled" then "done away" with... Again showing me NT verses trying to describe the OT, is like me showing you Quran verses trying to explain the NT.
Not really, the NT is the rest of the story of the OT, just because you don’t believe it doesn’t make it true.

Edit: about Ezekiel 40-48
The millennium is going to be where Jesus rules with iron so it’s not going to be a sinless place. There aren’t going to be any Christians living under His rule, He will have taken them up in the air to meet Him, the ones who were alive in the trib and the ones who died will be the first to meet Him. So, that leaves the people who are left come out of the trib...nonbelievers and the Jews who who believe Jesus is the Messiah now.

I agree with this..
Just because animal sacrifices and priests have no place in Christianity does not mean that they will have no place in Israel after the rapture of the Church; for there is a clear distinction made throughout the Scriptures between Israel and the Church. And just because God will have finished His work of sanctification in the Church by the time of the Rapture, is no warrant for assuming that He will have finished His work of instruction, testing, and sanctification of Israel. In fact, one of the main purposes of the thousand-year earthly kingdom of Christ will be to vindicate His chosen people Israel before the eyes of all nations (Isaiah 60, 61). It is obvious that the Book of Hebrews was written to Christians, and we have no right to insist that Israelites during the Millennium will also be Christians, without priests, without sacrifices, and without a Temple. Saints like John the Baptist who died before Pentecost were not Christians (John 3:29, Matt. 11:11); and those who are saved following the rapture of the Church will likewise be excluded from membership in the Bride of Christ, though they will be "made perfect" like all the redeemed (Heb. 12:23).
 
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And in fact there are many passages (which I could easily quote) not only in the Pentateuch but also in the Nevi'im, were it explicitly says that the Law will never be done away with, that the Law is eternal.

Jesus confirms this too:

For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.
(Matthew 5:18-20)


Paul is the one who decided that the law was suddenly abrogated because he was unable to sell pre-Christianity to non-Jews. It is true that antinomianism tends to be the thing that makes people stay with Christianity in the west because you can literally do almost anything and justify it.


Though I am free and belong to no one, I have made myself a slave to everyone, to win as many as possible. To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), so as to win those under the law. To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God’s law but am under Christ’s law), so as to win those not having the law. To the weak I became weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all people so that by all possible means I might save some. I do all this for the sake of the gospel, that I may share in its blessings.
(1 Corinthians 9:19-23)

That passage is basically Christianity (as opposed to Jesus and his teachings, which are Jewish) summed up, this is also at the heart of Christian missionary-ism too.
These people are not concerned with truth, they're only concerned with emotionalism and ideology.
While I dont believe in Jesus in the slightest, I do think that his words alone condemn Christianity. Christianity is mainly built off the letters of Paul. I do agree about Jesus' teachings being "Jewish" to a certain extent. But I think of it more as him being a creation of someone that wanted to blend in outside ideologies with "Judaism" (used very loosely)...Its the little things that I think expose that.
 

Lisa

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While I dont believe in Jesus in the slightest, I do think that his words alone condemn Christianity. Christianity is mainly built off the letters of Paul. I do agree about Jesus' teachings being "Jewish" to a certain extent. But I think of it more as him being a creation of someone that wanted to blend in outside ideologies with "Judaism" (used very loosely)...Its the little things that I think expose that.
You don’t believe in Jesus but think you can figure out Christianity?

Paul met Jesus...worked as an apostle and knew the others, who didn‘t say that what he was doing was incorrect and I’m sure if they thought he was, they would have spoke out against him. How do you get people to warm up to someone who was killing and terrorizing Christians if he wasn’t who he said he was?
 
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Sure there is,
Oh well not according to the God of Israel outlined in the OT.

You realize you contradicted yourself, right?
Well you're the one acting as if the Most High demanded or expected perfection when One of His favorite servants David murdered someone for his woman. Its really the lowest of the low deed, but the Most High obviously forgave him going by how many times he speaks highly of David or his lineage throughout the OT. So it was really on you to explain why you think the Most High's standards are too high when David committed murder and was STILL accepted

Not really, the NT is the rest of the story of the OT, just because you don’t believe it doesn’t make it true.
What makes the NT not true is that you cant prove your doctrines using the OT. You cant go to the OT, find the "Thus saith the Lord" verses, and prove what you're saying. So the NT, based on the OT, is false.

Edit: about Ezekiel 40-48
The millennium is going to be where Jesus rules with iron so it’s not going to be a sinless place. There aren’t going to be any Christians living under His rule, He will have taken them up in the air to meet Him, the ones who were alive in the trib and the ones who died will be the first to meet Him. So, that leaves the people who are left come out of the trib...nonbelievers and the Jews who who believe Jesus is the Messiah now.

I agree with this..
Just because animal sacrifices and priests have no place in Christianity does not mean that they will have no place in Israel after the rapture of the Church; for there is a clear distinction made throughout the Scriptures between Israel and the Church. And just because God will have finished His work of sanctification in the Church by the time of the Rapture, is no warrant for assuming that He will have finished His work of instruction, testing, and sanctification of Israel. In fact, one of the main purposes of the thousand-year earthly kingdom of Christ will be to vindicate His chosen people Israel before the eyes of all nations (Isaiah 60, 61). It is obvious that the Book of Hebrews was written to Christians, and we have no right to insist that Israelites during the Millennium will also be Christians, without priests, without sacrifices, and without a Temple. Saints like John the Baptist who died before Pentecost were not Christians (John 3:29, Matt. 11:11); and those who are saved following the rapture of the Church will likewise be excluded from membership in the Bride of Christ, though they will be "made perfect" like all the redeemed (Heb. 12:23).
Whoever typed this up was just rambling. YOU said Jesus was the final sacrifice when the MOST HIGH SAID that there would be more sin offerings in the future. Cant have it both ways

That was a very silly explanation as to christians "going into the air" while jews reigned on earth with jesus lol. But thats what happens when people try to force fit Jesus onto the OT when he doesnt fit. I mean take the passage posting about "Christ vindicating his Chosen people Israel before all nations in Isaiah 60.

9 Surely the isles shall wait for me, and the ships of Tarshish first, to bring thy sons from far, their silver and their gold with them, unto the name of the Lord thy God, and to the Holy One of Israel, because he hath glorified thee. 10 And the sons of strangers shall build up thy walls, and their kings shall minister unto thee: for in my wrath I smote thee, but in my favour have I had mercy on thee. 11 Therefore thy gates shall be open continually; they shall not be shut day nor night; that men may bring unto thee the forces of the Gentiles, and that their kings may be brought. 12 For the nation and kingdom that will not serve thee shall perish; yea, those nations shall be utterly wasted

OR Isaiah 61

5 And strangers shall stand and feed your flocks, and the sons of the alien shall be your plowmen and your vinedressers. 6 But ye shall be named the Priests of the Lord: men shall call you the Ministers of our God: ye shall eat the riches of the Gentiles, and in their glory shall ye boast yourselves. 7 For your shame ye shall have double; and for confusion they shall rejoice in their portion: therefore in their land they shall possess the double: everlasting joy shall be unto them. 8 For I the Lord love judgment, I hate robbery for burnt offering; and I will direct their work in truth, and I will make an everlasting covenant with them. 9 And their seed shall be known among the Gentiles, and their offspring among the people: all that see them shall acknowledge them, that they are the seed which the Lord hath blessed.

See long ago, people read the OT and didnt like what they read. So they wrote the NT and wrote themselves a better ending. Its pretty much fan fiction tbh
 

Lisa

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Oh well not according to the God of Israel outlined in the OT.
He still loved people in the OT.

Well you're the one acting as if the Most High demanded or expected perfection when One of His favorite servants David murdered someone for his woman. Its really the lowest of the low deed, but the Most High obviously forgave him going by how many times he speaks highly of David or his lineage throughout the OT. So it was really on you to explain why you think the Most High's standards are too high when David committed murder and was STILL accepted
I never acted that way...it was you who said it, not me. David repented of his sin...

What makes the NT not true is that you cant prove your doctrines using the OT. You cant go to the OT, find the "Thus saith the Lord" verses, and prove what you're saying. So the NT, based on the OT, is false.
The NT is the rest of the story from the OT. Since you don’t believe in Jesus you don’t want to see it anyway.

Whoever typed this up was just rambling. YOU said Jesus was the final sacrifice when the MOST HIGH SAID that there would be more sin offerings in the future. Cant have it both ways

That was a very silly explanation as to christians "going into the air" while jews reigned on earth with jesus lol. But thats what happens when people try to force fit Jesus onto the OT when he doesnt fit. I mean take the passage posting about "Christ vindicating his Chosen people Israel before all nations in Isaiah 60.

9 Surely the isles shall wait for me, and the ships of Tarshish first, to bring thy sons from far, their silver and their gold with them, unto the name of the Lord thy God, and to the Holy One of Israel, because he hath glorified thee. 10 And the sons of strangers shall build up thy walls, and their kings shall minister unto thee: for in my wrath I smote thee, but in my favour have I had mercy on thee. 11 Therefore thy gates shall be open continually; they shall not be shut day nor night; that men may bring unto thee the forces of the Gentiles, and that their kings may be brought. 12 For the nation and kingdom that will not serve thee shall perish; yea, those nations shall be utterly wasted

OR Isaiah 61

5 And strangers shall stand and feed your flocks, and the sons of the alien shall be your plowmen and your vinedressers. 6 But ye shall be named the Priests of the Lord: men shall call you the Ministers of our God: ye shall eat the riches of the Gentiles, and in their glory shall ye boast yourselves. 7 For your shame ye shall have double; and for confusion they shall rejoice in their portion: therefore in their land they shall possess the double: everlasting joy shall be unto them. 8 For I the Lord love judgment, I hate robbery for burnt offering; and I will direct their work in truth, and I will make an everlasting covenant with them. 9 And their seed shall be known among the Gentiles, and their offspring among the people: all that see them shall acknowledge them, that they are the seed which the Lord hath blessed.

See long ago, people read the OT and didnt like what they read. So they wrote the NT and wrote themselves a better ending. Its pretty much fan fiction tbh
Actually, he had a good point...life in the millennium isn’t going to be like life now. Paul tells us that there was a partial hardening of the gentiles until the fullness of the gentiles comes in...with the rapture, I would say that fullness was fulfilled. Then God goes on to deal with His chosen people, who are still His chosen people. They are the ones that will live in the millennium...and anyone else that makes it.

The rapture is going to be real phenomenon..the Jews aren’t the ones who will reign on earth with Jesus but the ones that come from the great tribulation, they are the ones martyred for their testimony about Jesus.

People read the OT and learned about God and then they read the NT and learned more about His love, grace and forgiveness and His only begotten Son, Jesus. Jesus who was prophesied in Isaiah 53 none the less.
 
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You don’t believe in Jesus but think you can figure out Christianity?
A 6th grader should be able to understand context when put in front of them. For instance:

NT:
Matthew 1:22 Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying,
23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

OT:
Isaiah 7:
10 Again the Lord spoke to Ahaz, 11 “Ask the Lord your God for a sign, whether in the deepest depths or in the highest heights.” 12 But Ahaz said, “I will not ask; I will not put the Lord to the test.” 13 Then Isaiah said, “Hear now, you house of David! Is it not enough to try the patience of humans? Will you try the patience of my God also? 14 Therefore the Lord himself will give you[c] a sign: The virgin[d] will conceive and give birth to a son, and[e] will call him Immanuel.[f] 15 He will be eating curds and honey when he knows enough to reject the wrong and choose the right, 16 for before the boy knows enough to reject the wrong and choose the right, the land of the two kings you dread will be laid waste. 17 The Lord will bring on you and on your people and on the house of your father a time unlike any since Ephraim broke away from Judah—he will bring the king of Assyria.”

Before the child knows enough to reject the wrong and choose right, the land of the two kings YOU DREAD (i.e. Ahaz) will be laid to waste. So what is the context of this verse? That the sign was for King Ahaz, in regards to the two kings that were about to make war with him. Thats how simple it is to prove christianity wrong.

Your answer will be some type of gymnastics flip to where somehow, the sign that was for King Ahaz to show that at THAT TIME, God would be with him in the upcoming war all of a sudden becomes a sign for a man/god entity. And you believe it because you've never read the OT with the intent of believing it. You were taught the NT, and went back to the OT and superimposed the NT over it. Its literally the only way one can be a christian...

Paul met Jesus...worked as an apostle and knew the others, who didn‘t say that what he was doing was incorrect and I’m sure if they thought he was, they would have spoke out against him. How do you get people to warm up to someone who was killing and terrorizing Christians if he wasn’t who he said he was?
At the end of the day:

Isaiah 8:20
To the law and to the testimony! If they do not speak according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

Telling me Paul talked to Jesus is like telling me Buddha talked to Krishna.. So what? If you cant prove their word true using the law, then according to this verse, theres no light in what they're offering...
 
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He still loved people in the OT.
Boring... Going from an eye for an eye to turn the other cheek is a change. Going for every man dies for their own sin to one man/god dies for everyone's sin is a change. So thats how its factual how the NT doesnt go with the OT. It changes the whole tenor of everything the OT stood for. Its why you cant prove most of the things you say using it...

I never acted that way...it was you who said it, not me. David repented of his sin...
You said "we cant follow what is right" yet David, who was a murderer, was accepted of the Most High... So if the Most High accepted David, if its written that a righteous man falls down 7 times and gets up 8, then theres nothing to His standards being to hard to keep.

The NT is the rest of the story from the OT. Since you don’t believe in Jesus you don’t want to see it anyway.
Its easy to say that the NT is the "rest of the story" just as its easy for a Muslim to say the Quran is the rest of the story to the NT. Its harder to prove it..

Actually, he had a good point..
No he didnt because this is what the Creator said was going to happen in the end times in the chapters your guy brought to the table.

Isaiah 60
10 And the sons of strangers shall build up thy walls, and their kings shall minister unto thee: for in my wrath I smote thee, but in my favour have I had mercy on thee.11 Therefore thy gates shall be open continually; they shall not be shut day nor night; that men may bring unto thee the forces of the Gentiles, and that their kings may be brought. 12 For the nation and kingdom that will not serve thee shall perish; yea, those nations shall be utterly wasted.

It says gentiles shall build up (Israel's) walls and that the nation/kingdom that doesnt srve them shall be wasted. Thats what the OT says happens in the end times. Or this:

Jeremiah 30
8 “‘In that day,’ declares the Lord Almighty,
‘I will break the yoke off their necks
and will tear off their bonds;
no longer will foreigners enslave them.

9 Instead, they will serve the Lord their God
and David their king,
whom I will raise up for them.


16 “‘But all who devour you will be devoured;
all your enemies will go into exile.

Those who plunder you will be plundered;
all who make spoil of you I will despoil.
17 But I will restore you to health
and heal your wounds,’
declares the Lord,
‘because you are called an outcast,
Zion for whom no one cares.’

All your NT is, is a gentile attempt to rewrite their ending. Let me know if you want me to continue with what the OT (not me) says will happen in regards to Israel/Gentiles in the last days...
 
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EpistemiX

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Its easy to say that the NT is the "rest of the story" just as its easy for a Muslim to say the Quran is the rest of the story to the NT. Its harder to prove it..
No Muslim will say the Qur’an is the “rest of the story” to the New Testament. The New Testament’s theology doesn’t sit well with the Qur’an at all. Just like the New Testament’s theology won’t sit well with the Old Testament theology.

The New Testament versions themselves are testament enough to it’s meddling by the lying pen of the scribes.

Anyway, good to ready you KoncreteMind
 
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No Muslim will say the Qur’an is the “rest of the story” to the New Testament. The New Testament’s theology doesn’t sit well with the Qur’an at all. Just like the New Testament’s theology won’t sit well with the Old Testament theology.

The New Testament versions themselves are testament enough to it’s meddling by the lying pen of the scribes.

Anyway, good to ready you KoncreteMind
Disagreed on that one (which you might have expected). Barring the translations, the theology of the NT cannot be wrong as it implies that the NT was corrupt long before the Quran came. Then why did the Quran speak of the Gospels as a 'guidance and light' in the present tense eg what the christians posessed in their hands at that time?

Furthermore, the Quran repeatedly speaks of the Scripture and the Hikmah(wisdom). Notice it never says 'sunnah'. The sunnah would be the hikmah of the prophet(s), however few muslims seem to understand how hikmah applies in different contexts. If you read the entire bible inc the NT then you begin to understand relevant contexts.

The Quran also states that Allah inspired the disciples to believe and that He granted the believers amongst the israelites victory over the disbelievers. So the ones who followed Jesus, they were guided by God to the truth and not to falsehood. If Paul was an imposter, that only proves the Quran wrong here. So it's better to just go with what is there and work with it.

I can use Paul's argument to support islam.

think about this

According to Paul
-The Mosaic law doesn't make people righteous. It's design is to make sin apparent thereby creating a context to reveal God's GRACE (and hence Jesus and all that).
-Abraham wasn't reckoned by works, but by faith. He circumcised himself after he'd already proven his faith. Therefore circumcision doesn't make a person righteous in the eyes of God (that is despite the Covenant of the flesh/circumcision in Genesis 17), unless it is also a circumcision of the heart (with faith). The patriarchs all lived in faith prior to the law of Moses.
-Paul likened the new christians (and this was geared really more towards the gentiles) to the Patriarchs eg they didn't need a law.

Here's what my argument kicks in
If God saw fit to give the Israelites a law, after they were already existing in faith, why couldn't God do that once again with the gentiles? What happened to the Israelites? they lived in egypt for 400 yrs and lost their belief. The same is true for christianity, once it went into europe, it lost it's essence. Eg the 'son' is a symbolic judaic term, the romans took that literally. They innovated the religion and created the trinitarian doctrine. So just like the israelites were then given a law, the gentiles were given a law (through the Quran).
Even using Paul's understanding of the purpose of the law eg to reveal the depths of sin..this is more apparent in islam than anything.
For example, alcohol wasnt forbidden prior...so if any prophet drank alcohol, it was a normal thing.
Yet when a muslim drinks it, it's one of the major sins aswell as a major fitna for muslims in general. This is even more the case when muslims are trying to hold onto their ideals in a 'westernised' world.
It just means that muslims have experienced a greater 'depth' of sin than any one else before...and that means muslims NEED/REQUIRE the Grace of God more than anyone else before. Since that's supposed to come through the messiah, it literally means we need him more than christians do.
Furthermore, from a spiritual perspective, what makes Jesus great isn't that he's going to conquer lands and rule..his greatness is in his ability to elevate people spiritually. He is greater through islam than he is through christianity alone.
God saw fit to reveal the law to Moses in order to magnify the Grace of God coming through Jesus Christ later. the fulfillment of the law IS the Grace of God.
these online christians literally only think of the second coming of Jesus when they're watching a hyde park debate. they're like
'wen jezuz? jezuz plz throw dem muslims in da lake of fire asap plz'
and when all else fails they shout 'dat iz takiya tho'.

honestly, i dont want to be a dick here..but i literally just cant see how they have any connection to Jesus in anything but name.
they dont believe what they say about him, they just say it to debate muslims and that's all about stroking their ego. do they really think Jesus is fully God whilst knowing full well Jesus openly said 'i dont even know when the last hour is? only the Father knows'?
i know this isnt about Paul, but Paul was heavily critical of the jews in his time, so it's only fair i extend his form of criticism towards these christians).

don't get me wrong, i believe there were authentic christians too, but they were persecuted for it. Madam Guyon is one i always mention. Even despite her theological weaknesses, in terms of the metaphysics, what she experienced and represented was the same path the likes of Rabia Basri experienced. she was on that level. A true seeker, not some bs online 'takiya' xtian. Those type of christians are very very rate, i dont think that are any left like that.
































Jesus apparently came to fulfill the law. The jews interpreted this as a messiah who literally lives by the letter of the law. Remember in the hadith it says Isa AS will judge us according to the Quran, not the Gospel? well the typical muslim literally imagines Jesus holding the Quran and holding muslims to it's laws in the most literal sense.
Now, the wisdom in the story of Khidr and Moses is that Moses lived in duality and Khidr transcendence duality, existing in a state of unity. This is taoist wisdom eg yin/yang..and the Tao. It's about not seeing opposites.
eg

The Tao doesn’t take sides; it gives birth to both good and evil. The Master doesn’t take sides; she welcomes both saints and sinners.

This whole theme is lost on Christians. They don't get it at all. For example, it said
The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be.
Jesus was Shiloh, according to the NT itself. The parable of the tenants was also indicative of the period of gentiles coming after jews get kicked out. Revelation 11 itself also foretold the period of the gentiles (fulfilled by islamic rule over Jerusalem).
Jesus first came 'only to the lost sheep of israel' and on his return is coming for everyone inc gentiles.



Actually a lot of what Jesus was living by. It is from the state of Ihsan rather than Islam...hence Paul was saying 'the law is slavery,
 
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You can have your opinion, but it won’t change the tide of scholarship that claims otherwise!
The oldest manuscripts were in greek. The argument is that the various translations changed the meaning of certain words, added punctuation etc.
Which form of Christianity and what language of the NT was dominant when the Quran was revealed?

The Quran says
(5) Let the people of the gospel judge by what Allah hath revealed therein. If any do fail to judge by (the light of) what Allah hath revealed, they are (no better than) those who rebel.
(سورة المائدة, Al-Maaida, Chapter #5, Verse #47)

(7) Say: "O People of the Book! ye have no ground to stand upon unless ye stand fast by the Law, the gospel, and all the revelation that has come to you from your Lord." It is the revelation that cometh to thee from thy Lord, that increaseth in most of them their obstinate rebellion and blasphemy. But sorrow thou not over (these) people without Faith.


These verses are in the present tense and apply to every christian living at the time of their revelation.
Now, if you wish to argue over later translations i have no issues with that, although to me that's minor...it's more the compilation of the NT books and their core content that cannot be debated when you apply these Quranic verses.

the 'lying pen of the scribes' obv pertains to the old testament...and in the accurate context is about the interpretations of the law, rather than the core text. It says 'the lying hands of the scribes handled it falsely'.
otherwise why would such a text even exist, condemning the very people writing the text? the Quranic verses also apply here.
in the hadith, the prophet SAW said 'neither reject nor accept what they give to you, because they write some things with their own hands and say it is from Allah, just say 'we believe in what Allah revealed' ' //not in these exact words.
 

EpistemiX

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Tl;dr Christianity holds no interest for me whatsoever. But you knock yourself out, champ!
 
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Tl;dr Christianity holds no interest for me whatsoever. But you knock yourself out, champ!
bollocks, your entire premise on here is to combat Christianity..and furthermore my point here was about islam in the context of how it relates to the NT, which is why i responded to your post.

besides how the fuck can you claim islam has no relation to the NT when islam followed after christianity? you're only responding in this manner because i disagreed with you. my advice, take a breather, calm yourself process what's been said and move along.
 
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