The egg and God

[Aero]

Sure, here are some sources. Have tried to present of all a little, so there is thought behind the presentation of links and their connections, in hope of a good intro. Have found few books but mostly philosophical, and some parts around the subject; if wanted let me know. These helps one to in a lifetime have the view of the other side in mind and simply take it into consideration. Its very good to have to read different pens and their mindset, this path is not a fan based one but intellectually reading everything and choosing the best so we can go forward and never have the feeling or thought of hopelessness.

The ‘Irfan Of Imam ‘Ali

This text analyses the meaning of the word Irfan and its significance in Islamic Philosophy, and how it can be applied in the sense of special esoteric knowledge of God to the life and example of Imam Ali (as). This article can be found in pages 5-20 of Religious Inquiries (Volume 3, Issue 5...

www.al-islam.org

Booklet:

God in Islamic Traditions: A Glance at Al-Tawhid by Shaykh Al-Saduq

www.al-islam.org

Booklet: Innate Gnosis of God

Islamic Gnosis (Irfan) and Wisdom (Hikmat)

Preface In the Name of Allah, the Merciful, the Compassionate

www.al-islam.org

I'm mostly interested in the "Gnosis and reason" category.

Unfortunately, this thread is a good example of flawed personal experience. The egg and god theory is a subjective truth gone completely off the rails. That is why I focus on practical gnosis.

My thoughts are both subjective and objective truth suffers from inflation and paradoxes. Take "wholeness" for example. I do not promote wholeness for the sake of being whole. I promote wholeness because it's the closest to a perfect form as I can get.

Maybe it's better to say truth is best described in levels. Not black and white type thinking as objective/subjective. There's fanciful truth like Lisa has shown us, then there are parts of the truth that is somewhat better but still incomplete. Eventually, through a natural state of progression, we discover the whole truth.

 

[Tidal]

You have an obsession with Mary Poppins...but that doesn’t refute my claim that Jesus is God!

Honeybun, you can claim all you want but that doesn't make it true..
For example I'd like to claim that the woman down the grocers has got the hots for me, but sadly I don't think it's true.

 

[Lisa]

Honeybun, you can claim all you want but that doesn't make it true..
For example I'd like to claim that the woman down the grocers has got the hots for me, but sadly I don't think it's true.

The Bible says He is God.

 

[KoncreteMind]

Yet God says that man is made in His image...He doesn’t say the sons of God are.

It doesnt say they werent either.

1.) He was innocent..but He wanted to take my sins so that He could save me. No one else could save us. I want to be reconciled to God and He says that’s the only way.
2.) Sure..its God’s will that people be saved...

​

He didn’t change...it still took a sacrifice to save us.

Exodus‬ ‭12:1-7‬ ‭
Now the LORD said to Moses and Aaron in the land of Egypt, “This month shall be the beginning of months for you; it is to be the first month of the year to you. Speak to all the congregation of Israel, saying, ‘On the tenth of this month they are each one to take a lamb for themselves, according to their fathers’ households, a lamb for each household. Now if the household is too small for a lamb, then he and his neighbor nearest to his house are to take one according to the number of persons in them; according to what each man should eat, you are to divide the lamb. Your lamb shall be an unblemished male a year old; you may take it from the sheep or from the goats. You shall keep it until the fourteenth day of the same month, then the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel is to kill it at twilight. Moreover, they shall take some of the blood and put it on the two doorposts and on the lintel of the houses in which they eat it.​

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Exactly...Jesus is the savior...He is God the Son who saves us by His blood.

​

1. Yea so you sin purposely and put your sins on an innocent man that came and did EXACTLY as he was supposed to? lol
2. You cant apply Isaiah 53 to Jesus if he didnt have offspring. He had brothers and sisters/mothers, but no offspring.
3. Sacrifice of an ANIMAL. Or incense. Or coal touching Isaiah's lips. Or flour. Or prayers. ALL these things according to the law/prophets atoned for sin. Not just sacrifice of an unblemished male.

The problem is you only believe the law/prophets when it supposedly props up your religion...

Abraham didnt know ANYONE named Jesus according to the bible. The curse that would be on his descendants thru Jacob?

Deuteronomy 28:64
Then the LORD will scatter you among all nations, from one end of the earth to the other. There you will worship other gods--gods of wood and stone, which neither you nor your ancestors have known.

"Jesus" the god you worship, is a god the ancestors of Israel NEVER KNEW. Facts only

 

[Lisa]

It doesnt say they werent either.

1. Yea so you sin purposely and put your sins on an innocent man that came and did EXACTLY as he was supposed to? lol
2. You cant apply Isaiah 53 to Jesus if he didnt have offspring. He had brothers and sisters/mothers, but no offspring.
3. Sacrifice of an ANIMAL. Or incense. Or coal touching Isaiah's lips. Or flour. Or prayers. ALL these things according to the law/prophets atoned for sin. Not just sacrifice of an unblemished male.

The problem is you only believe the law/prophets when it supposedly props up your religion...

Abraham didnt know ANYONE named Jesus according to the bible. The curse that would be on his descendants thru Jacob?

Deuteronomy 28:64
Then the LORD will scatter you among all nations, from one end of the earth to the other. There you will worship other gods--gods of wood and stone, which neither you nor your ancestors have known.

"Jesus" the god you worship, is a god the ancestors of Israel NEVER KNEW. Facts only

1.) He came to take the punishment for everyone and...

Romans‬ ‭5:8‬ ‭
But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.​

2.) Jesus has offspring in us...those who believe in Him.
3.) There was the sacrifice of the unblemished male...it’s a precursor to the ultimate unblemished, once for all sacrifice..Jesus.

I don’t do that...its right there, if you want to see it. If not, carry on.

Abraham was blessed by God, God gave Abraham and Sarah a son when they couldn’t conceive naturally...that would be Isaac. God made a covenant with Abraham to be His God and give Him the land...this covenant was carried on through his heirs..Isaac and Jacob and through certain lines after...but all beginning with Abraham and going through Issac and Jacob. Abraham was also told that he would be a father of many nations

Genesis‬ ‭17:4-7‬ ‭
As for Me, behold, My covenant is with you, And you will be the father of a multitude of nations. No longer shall your name be called Abram, But your name shall be Abraham; For I have made you the father of a multitude of nations. I will make you exceedingly fruitful, and I will make nations of you, and kings will come forth from you. I will establish My covenant between Me and you and your descendants after you throughout their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be God to you and to your descendants after you.​

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‭‭Romans‬ ‭4:13-25‬ ‭​

For the promise to Abraham or to his descendants that he would be heir of the world was not through the Law, but through the righteousness of faith. For if those who are of the Law are heirs, faith is made void and the promise is nullified; for the Law brings about wrath, but where there is no law, there also is no violation. For this reason it is by faith, in order that it may be in accordance with grace, so that the promise will be guaranteed to all the descendants, not only to those who are of the Law, but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all, (as it is written, “A FATHER OF MANY NATIONS HAVE I MADE YOU ”) in the presence of Him whom he believed, even God, who gives life to the dead and calls into being that which does not exist. In hope against hope he believed, so that he might become a father of many nations according to that which had been spoken, “S O SHALL YOUR DESCENDANTS BE.” Without becoming weak in faith he contemplated his own body, now as good as dead since he was about a hundred years old, and the deadness of Sarah’s womb; yet, with respect to the promise of God, he did not waver in unbelief but grew strong in faith, giving glory to God, and being fully assured that what God had promised, He was able also to perform. Therefore IT WAS ALSO CREDITED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS. Now not for his sake only was it written that it was credited to him, but for our sake also, to whom it will be credited, as those who believe in Him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead, He who was delivered over because of our transgressions, and was raised because of our justification.


Ya, the Jews rejected Jesus however...

Romans‬ ‭11:1-2, 11, 15, 23-26‬ ‭​

I say then, God has not rejected His people, has He? May it never be! For I too am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. God has not rejected His people whom He foreknew. Or do you not know what the Scripture says in the passage about Elijah, how he pleads with God against Israel?

I say then, they did not stumble so as to fall, did they? May it never be! But by their transgression salvation has come to the Gentiles, to make them jealous.

For if their rejection is the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead?

And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. For if you were cut off from what is by nature a wild olive tree, and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these who are the natural branches be grafted into their own olive tree? For I do not want you, brethren, to be uninformed of this mystery—so that you will not be wise in your own estimation—that a partial hardening has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in; and so all Israel will be saved; just as it is written, “THE DELIVERER WILL COME FROM ZION, HE WILL REMOVE UNGODLINESS FROM JACOB.”
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[EpistemiX]

I did not...I called you scimitar.

You called Scimitar, God. And that is blasphemy!!

Have you repented for your heinous sin?

 

[Lisa]

You called Scimitar, God. And that is blasphemy!!

Have you repented for your heinous sin?

Is this really going to be the extent of your replies?

 

[EpistemiX]

Is this really going to be the extent of your replies?

I’m coming down to your level!!! I believe we have a better chance of communicating if I dumb it down for you.

 

[Lisa]

I’m coming down to your level!!! I believe we have a better chance of communicating if I dumb it down for you.

So..you have no other response...and how could you? I’ve made some great points in my op!

 

[EpistemiX]

So..you have no other response...and how could you? I’ve made some great points in my op!

I broke an egg shell and guess what? Two yolks came out of it.

Your analogy is flawed, inconsistent and juvenile... wait, did I just also describe you?

 

[Lisa]

I broke an egg shell and guess what? Two yolks came out of it.

Your analogy is flawed, inconsistent and juvenile... wait, did I just also describe you?

The normal egg is what I’m talking about. And even if there are two yolks, the egg is one egg and is made up of an egg shell, an egg white and an egg yolk. We all grow up knowing that. And knowing that 2 yolks is abnormal.

With God however there are no abnormalities..
God is the Father
God is the Son
God is the Holy Spirit.

Matthew‬ ‭28:19‬ ‭
Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,​

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[KoncreteMind]

1.) He came to take the punishment for everyone and...

Yes you've made it clear that you'd allow a man to be sent to jail for a crime you willingly committed.

While the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, who said He never changes, said this:

Ezekiel 18:20
The one who sins is the one who will die. The child will not share the guilt of the parent, nor will the parent share the guilt of the child. The righteousness of the righteous will be credited to them, and the wickedness of the wicked will be charged against them.

2.) Jesus has offspring in us.

Jesus didnt say that...

3.) There was the sacrifice of the unblemished male...

That would be male ANIMAL. And not just any male ANIMAL either. So you cant take male and leave the animal part and insert a human, when the Most High said this about human sacrifice:

Deut 12
31 You must not worship the Lord your God in their way, because in worshiping their gods, they do all kinds of detestable things the Lord hates. They even burn their sons and daughters in the fire as sacrifices to their gods.

 

[Lisa]

Yes you've made it clear that you'd allow a man to be sent to jail for a crime you willingly committed.

The man in question, Jesus, God the Son, already have His life for me, all I did was take Him up on His offer...

Matthew‬ ‭11:28-30‬ ‭
Come to Me, all who are weary and heavy-laden, and I will give you rest. Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and YOU WILL FIND REST FOR YOUR SOULS. For My yoke is easy and My burden is light.


‭‭Romans‬ ‭5:8‬ ‭
But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.​

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While the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, who said He never changes, said this:

Ezekiel 18:20
The one who sins is the one who will die. The child will not share the guilt of the parent, nor will the parent share the guilt of the child. The righteousness of the righteous will be credited to them, and the wickedness of the wicked will be charged against them.

And? Like I’ve said there were always sacrifices for sin...Jesus is the once for all sacrifice.

‭‭1 Peter‬ ‭3:18‬ ‭
For Christ also died for sins once for all, the just for the unjust, so that He might bring us to God, having been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit

Hebrews‬ ‭9:11-14‬ ‭​

But when Christ appeared as a high priest of the good things to come, He entered through the greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this creation; and not through the blood of goats and calves, but through His own blood, He entered the holy place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption. For if the blood of goats and bulls and the ashes of a heifer sprinkling those who have been defiled sanctify for the cleansing of the flesh, how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without blemish to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
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Jesus didnt say that...

Matthew‬ ‭12:47-49‬ ‭
Someone said to Him, “Behold, Your mother and Your brothers are standing outside seeking to speak to You.” But Jesus answered the one who was telling Him and said, “Who is My mother and who are My brothers?” And stretching out His hand toward His disciples, He said, “Behold My mother and My brothers!​

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[EpistemiX]

The normal egg is what I’m talking about.
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But God is not normal Lisa, HE is supernatural... you've totally shot your toes off now.

 

[Lisa]

But God is not normal Lisa, HE is supernatural... you've totally shot your toes off now.

God wants us to know Him..so then He is knowable. The egg is a perfect example of how we can know God by normal things. The trinity is so hard to understand..that there needs to be a way for us to do that, enter the egg! Very ordinary but extraordinary at the same time. What else is said to have three parts yet remain one? Three parts that make up a whole.

God can be hurt by us..

Isaiah‬ ‭42:14‬ ‭
I have kept silent for a long time, I have kept still and restrained Myself. Now like a woman in labor I will groan, I will both gasp and pant.​

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Matthew‬ ‭23:37‬ ‭
Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling.​

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God loves us..

Romans‬ ‭5:8‬ ‭
But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.​

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‭‭1 John‬ ‭4:16‬ ‭
We have come to know and have believed the love which God has for us. God is love, and the one who abides in love abides in God, and God abides in him.​

God cares for us...

‭‭1 Peter‬ ‭5:7‬ ‭
Casting all your anxiety on Him, because He cares for you.

Isaiah‬ ‭30:18‬ ‭
Therefore the LORD longs to be gracious to you, And therefore He waits on high to have compassion on you. For the LORD is a God of justice; How blessed are all those who long for Him.​

God is kind...

Matthew‬ ‭11:28-30‬ ‭
Come to Me, all who are weary and heavy-laden, and I will give you rest. Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and YOU WILL FIND REST FOR YOUR SOULS. For My yoke is easy and My burden is light.
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Philippians‬ ‭4:7‬ ‭
And the peace of God, which surpasses all comprehension, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.​

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‭‭God wants all to be saved!!!

‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:9‬ ‭
The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.

John‬ ‭3:16‬ ‭
For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.​

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He wants us to be reconciled to Him..

‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭5:20‬ ‭
Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were making an appeal through us; we beg you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God.

Colossians‬ ‭1:19-20‬ ‭
For it was the Father’s good pleasure for all the fullness to dwell in Him, and through Him to reconcile all things to Himself, having made peace through the blood of His cross; through Him, I say, whether things on earth or things in heaven.
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After all...man was made in the image of God!

Genesis‬ ‭1:26‬ ‭
Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness.”
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Genesis‬ ‭3:22
Then the LORD God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil.
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[KoncreteMind]

The man in question, Jesus, God the Son, already have His life for me, all I did was take Him up on His offer...

​

​

*Lisa commits crime*
*innocent man walks in front of the judge and says he will go to jail on your behalf
*Lisa accepts*

If you think thats a righteous way of moving (shifting your sins/blame to someone who NEVER sinned) thats on you.. I dont buy it..

And?

Well theres no "and" to be had there. The Most High said every man will die for their own sin and that ANIMAL (not human) sacrifice is ONE way that an Israelite can atone for sins. Im just showing you how your position holds no weight when it comes to what the Most High said..
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Matthew‬ ‭12:47-49‬ ‭
Someone said to Him, “Behold, Your mother and Your brothers are standing outside seeking to speak to You.” But Jesus answered the one who was telling Him and said, “Who is My mother and who are My brothers?” And stretching out His hand toward His disciples, He said, “Behold My mother and My brothers!​

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"Mother/brother" isnt offspring. So like I said, Jesus never said anything about people who believe in him being his offspring while Isaiah 53 says the servant would see his offspring. NO match amiga

 

[Lisa]

*Lisa commits crime*
*innocent man walks in front of the judge and says he will go to jail on your behalf
*Lisa accepts*

If you think thats a righteous way of moving (shifting your sins/blame to someone who NEVER sinned) thats on you.. I dont buy it..

Actually it was more like this...

Jesus took the punishment for everyone’s sins..even mine..if you believe on Jesus you will be saved.
I learn about Jesus and accepted the invitation to believe on Him and be saved.

He died for my sins before I was born and He also offered forgiveness of sins before I was born.

Well theres no "and" to be had there. The Most High said every man will die for their own sin and that ANIMAL (not human) sacrifice is ONE way that an Israelite can atone for sins. Im just showing you how your position holds no weight when it comes to what the Most High said..

Isaiah‬ ‭53:3-7, 10‬ ‭​

He was despised and forsaken of men, A man of sorrows and acquainted with grief; And like one from whom men hide their face He was despised, and we did not esteem Him. Surely our griefs He Himself bore, And our sorrows He carried; Yet we ourselves esteemed Him stricken, Smitten of God, and afflicted. But He was pierced through for our transgressions, He was crushed for our iniquities; The chastening for our well-being fell upon Him, And by His scourging we are healed. All of us like sheep have gone astray, Each of us has turned to his own way; But the LORD has caused the iniquity of us all To fall on Him. He was oppressed and He was afflicted, Yet He did not open His mouth; Like a lamb that is led to slaughter, And like a sheep that is silent before its shearers, So He did not open His mouth.

But the LORD was pleased To crush Him, putting Him to grief; If He would render Himself as a guilt offering, He will see His offspring, He will prolong His days, And the good pleasure of the LORD will prosper in His hand.
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"Mother/brother" isnt offspring. So like I said, Jesus never said anything about people who believe in him being his offspring while Isaiah 53 says the servant would see his offspring. NO match amiga

Its family anyway...
Christians are the offspring of Jesus...we believe on Him and we are saved by Him..we are His..

Galatians‬ ‭2:20‬ ‭
I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me.​

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[KoncreteMind]

Actually it was more like this...

He died for my sins

Exodus 32
33 The Lord replied to Moses, “Whoever has sinned against me I will blot out of my book."

You sinned, you die.

Malachi 3:6
"I the Lord do not change. "

So if He doesnt change, and He said that whoever sins is the one who gets blotted out, then the same applies today. If another god comes saying different then its a test (according to Deut 13) to see where Israel will follow God's commandments or mans. Its that simple

Isaiah‬ ‭53:3-7, 10‬ ‭​

He was despised and forsaken of men, A man of sorrows and acquainted with grief; And like one from whom men hide their face He was despised, and we did not esteem Him. Surely our griefs He Himself bore, And our sorrows He carried; Yet we ourselves esteemed Him stricken, Smitten of God, and afflicted. But He was pierced through for our transgressions, He was crushed for our iniquities; The chastening for our well-being fell upon Him, And by His scourging we are healed. All of us like sheep have gone astray, Each of us has turned to his own way; But the LORD has caused the iniquity of us all To fall on Him. He was oppressed and He was afflicted, Yet He did not open His mouth; Like a lamb that is led to slaughter, And like a sheep that is silent before its shearers, So He did not open His mouth.

But the LORD was pleased To crush Him, putting Him to grief; If He would render Himself as a guilt offering, He will see His offspring, He will prolong His days, And the good pleasure of the LORD will prosper in His hand.
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Its family anyway...

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You can keep posting Isaiah 53 but you cant change the fact that it says the servant mentioned in the chapter would see his offspring/seed.

No it doesnt say family, it says offspring. And you obviously cant show where Jesus is said to have offspring (biblically of course). Cant pick and choose what he matches. Its all or nothing, and with no offspring, that means nothing...

 

[Lisa]

Exodus 32
33 The Lord replied to Moses, “Whoever has sinned against me I will blot out of my book."

You sinned, you die.

Malachi 3:6
"I the Lord do not change. "

So if He doesnt change, and He said that whoever sins is the one who gets blotted out, then the same applies today. If another god comes saying different then its a test (according to Deut 13) to see where Israel will follow God's commandments or mans. Its that simple


You can keep posting Isaiah 53 but you cant change the fact that it says the servant mentioned in the chapter would see his offspring/seed.

No it doesnt say family, it says offspring. And you obviously cant show where Jesus is said to have offspring (biblically of course). Cant pick and choose what he matches. Its all or nothing, and with no offspring, that means nothing...

Right, you sin, you die, however God did institute sacrifices for sin. You could be back in right relationship with Him after your sacrifice...trouble was there was always another sacrifice one had to do. But with Isaiah 53, we see God had a way out of that system. A once for all sacrifice for sin, God’s only begotten Son, Jesus.

The law was the tutor to lead to Jesus..it was never meant to be the way, forever.


Ya, I post Isaiah 53 because you said God didn’t talk about Jesus in the OT..that’s false, He clearly did.

And we Christians are His offspring...the fruit from His sacrifice...that’s the only offspring He has. We are His children now.

‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:26‬ ‭
For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.​

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[KoncreteMind]

Right, you sin, you die,

Yep and God doesnt change so if it was that way then, it will be that way forever till He rids the world of sin and makes it to where the only option people are offered is to do right.

however God did institute sacrifices for sin.

Thats animal sacrifice to be specific. Not human and not "god".

Oh and its not ONLY sacrifice that atoned for sin either as I've already shown.

You could be back in right relationship with Him after your sacrifice...trouble was there was always another sacrifice one had to do.

False. Just doing a sacrifice didnt put you in good graces with Him:

Isaiah 1

Spoiler

11 “The multitude of your sacrifices—
what are they to me?” says the Lord.
“I have more than enough of burnt offerings,
of rams and the fat of fattened animals;
I have no pleasure
in the blood of bulls and lambs and goats.
12 When you come to appear before me,
who has asked this of you,
this trampling of my courts?
13 Stop bringing meaningless offerings!
Your incense is detestable to me.
New Moons, Sabbaths and convocations—
I cannot bear your worthless assemblies.
14 Your New Moon feasts and your appointed festivals
I hate with all my being.
They have become a burden to me;
I am weary of bearing them

Continually sinning and trying to cover it up with sacrifices didnt bring forgiveness. In other words, the Most High forgives sins

But with Isaiah 53, we see God had a way out of that system. A once for all sacrifice for sin, God’s only begotten Son, Jesus.

If Jesus was the final sacrifice then Ezekiel wouldnt have prophesied about a temple where God would dwell in Israel's midst FOREVER. A temple where blood SIN OFFERINGS would be made.

The law was the tutor to lead to Jesus..it was never meant to be the way, forever.


Ya, I post Isaiah 53 because you said God didn’t talk about Jesus in the OT..that’s false, He clearly did.

And we Christians are His offspring...the fruit from His sacrifice...that’s the only offspring He has. We are His children now.

‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:26‬ ‭
For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.​

‭‭

To Israelites the law was forever. I mean at least thats what Moses wrote. If you dont believe Moses, then of course you're not going to believe me.

And again, you cant say Isaiah 53 then leave out the offspring part. Jesus said those that follow the will of his father become his brother/mother. Said nothing of offspring. And later he said call NO ONE father except the one in heaven, yet now you call him father by saying you're his offspring? All you're doing is switching up your narrative as you go along...