The Democratic Primaries

[weskrongden]

It’s just excuse after lame excuse... every other country on earth has it. This should be a cause of embarrassment for the richest most powerful country EVER on earth.

If we were really worried about obesity universal health care would be EXACTLY the tool we need to try to address it. Reinforcement for healthy behavior - join a gym, keep your BMI down and eat healthy .5% reduction in your health care tax. We use sticks instead of carrots and it’s an ass backwards way to encourage good behavior. It doesn’t work. You just need to know the basic principles of human behavior to see this clearly.

No country on Earth is anywhere close to as fat as America. You're talking to someone who isn't opposed to the idea of universal healthcare in theory. But all these obese Americans are putting a strain on the system. We'd need some strong surcharge to get obesity down, I think Japan does that. I doubt you'll hear anything from the Democrats about that, they're more about "body image positivity" even if you get diabetes.

 

[vancityeagle]

Lol at calling TPUSA and YAF facist. I actually think both those organizations are trash but you just keep throwing out that word. TPUSA is neoliberal. All that right wing propaganda about communism, you decry, you pull the same thing calling people you disagree with fascist. Stop using a simple minded buzzword and make coherent points.

Well it really depends how we define fascism. If we can define Trump as a fascist and both TPUSA and YAF promote pro-Trump propaganda then they would be fascists.

Here's the wikipedia entry

Fascism (/ˈfæʃɪzəm/) is a form of far-right, authoritarian ultranationalism[1][2] characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition, and strong regimentation of society and of the economy[3] which came to prominence in early 20th-century Europe

Lets focus on the bolded (far right and ultranationalism) the authoritariansim and forcible suppression come in the later stages as the fascists consolidate power, but we are already seeing the beginnings of this under Trump

Ultranationalism according to wikipedia

Ultranationalism is "extreme nationalism that promotes the interest of one state or people above all others"

I want to look at both ultranationalism in terms of state and people

1) state - "America first" Trump clearly advocates the interests of the USA and Israel above other states, in an extreme fashion where he doesn't care about the welfare of any other state, and will pursue policies to the extreme detriment of other states

2)People - Trump is clearly pushing a soft form of white nationalism by demonizing muslims, mexicans, immigrants, blacks, and pushing various forms of white nationalism. "build the wall" "islam is at war with us" "mexicans are criminals and rapists"

TPUSA and YAF both push propaganda which enforces these ideas of external and internal threats to "real americans" and I think we all know what that means.

Also Fascism is not something that comes overnight, it is a drawn out process which goes through various stages of indoctrination and the moving of the overton window.

You have propagandists like TPUSA and David Duke basically pushing the same message (anti-immigration) but with varying levels of radicalization. Obviously TPUSA is offering a much more watered down message than David Duke, but they are essentially saying the same thing, which is essentially this

The USA and "Western Civilization" is under attack by Leftists and progressives who wish to see it all burn down and are forcing immigration and political correctness down our throats, which we need to fight back before we exist no more.

That is fascism. The creation of external and internal threats which represent a grave threat to the "in group" (whites, conservatives, christians) and the movement to neutralize those "threats" which are nothing but scapegoats for the problems created by the elites Neoliberal/capitalist economic system.

 

[weskrongden]

Well it really depends how we define fascism. If we can define Trump as a fascist and both TPUSA and YAF promote pro-Trump propaganda then they would be fascists.

Here's the wikipedia entry

Fascism (/ˈfæʃɪzəm/) is a form of far-right, authoritarian ultranationalism[1][2] characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition, and strong regimentation of society and of the economy[3] which came to prominence in early 20th-century Europe

Lets focus on the bolded (far right and ultranationalism) the authoritariansim and forcible suppression come in the later stages as the fascists consolidate power, but we are already seeing the beginnings of this under Trump

Ultranationalism according to wikipedia

Ultranationalism is "extreme nationalism that promotes the interest of one state or people above all others"

I want to look at both ultranationalism in terms of state and people

1) state - "America first" Trump clearly advocates the interests of the USA and Israel above other states, in an extreme fashion where he doesn't care about the welfare of any other state, and will pursue policies to the extreme detriment of other states

2)People - Trump is clearly pushing a soft form of white nationalism by demonizing muslims, mexicans, immigrants, blacks, and pushing various forms of white nationalism. "build the wall" "islam is at war with us" "mexicans are criminals and rapists"

TPUSA and YAF both push propaganda which enforces these ideas of external and internal threats to "real americans" and I think we all know what that means.

Also Fascism is not something that comes overnight, it is a drawn out process which goes through various stages of indoctrination and the moving of the overton window.

You have propagandists like TPUSA and David Duke basically pushing the same message (anti-immigration) but with varying levels of radicalization. Obviously TPUSA is offering a much more watered down message than David Duke, but they are essentially saying the same thing, which is essentially this

The USA and "Western Civilization" is under attack by Leftists and progressives who wish to see it all burn down and are forcing immigration and political correctness down our throats, which we need to fight back before we exist no more.

That is fascism. The creation of external and internal threats which represent a grave threat to the "in group" (whites, conservatives, christians) and the movement to neutralize those "threats" which are nothing but scapegoats for the problems created by the elites Neoliberal/capitalist economic system.

I guess you think America was a fascist state up until the 1965 Immigration Act because all that stuff you're worried about is what America is built upon. I guess you would consider almost the entire world fascist because most countries are not very welcoming to outsiders (especially those who don't assimilate to the host country's culture and traditions) and choose to act in their own interests.

 

[weskrongden]

Trump at his 2019 SOTU said he wanted to bring in more people than ever before. TPUSA has always been very pro immigrant. Things I strongly oppose.

 

[vancityeagle]

I guess you think America was a fascist state up until the 1965 Immigration Act because all that stuff you're worried about is what America is built upon. I guess you would consider almost the entire world fascist because most countries are not very welcoming to outsiders (especially those who don't assimilate to the host country's culture and traditions) and choose to act in their own interests.

I think it has always had elements of fascism (ultranationalism) perhaps the authoritarianism and having an outright dictator do not fit the definition, but we are definately moving in that direction.

Also its not simply about nations being "not welcoming to outsiders"

its more when you have the main political parties using xenophobia and ultranationalism as a political strategy to garner support from the public.

 

[vancityeagle]

Trump at his 2019 SOTU said he wanted to bring in more people than ever before. TPUSA has always been very pro immigrant. Things I strongly oppose.

He can say anything he wants, its actions that are important.

Trump has made it much harder for legal immigrants than before, even adding certain countries to his ban list. Even before Trump the USA is one of the hardest countries to immigrate to legally.

TPUSA plays into the whole divide and rule, "our culture is under attack" narrative. That automatically creates an anti-immigration sentiment. Yeah they support legal immigration, but again as with Trump legal immigration is to be very small and hard for immigrants to come in, and also they have a preference of which countries legal immigrants should come from.

Like I said TPUSA are just offering a more watered down, luke warm, version of what a guy like David Duke is saying.

and one of the goals of groups like TPUSA is to act as gateway drugs to more hard core radicalized right wing propaganda. So people who one day listened to TPUSA will tomorrow see them as not strong enough and progress to listening to David Duke.

 

[weskrongden]

I think it has always had elements of fascism (ultranationalism) perhaps the authoritarianism and having an outright dictator do not fit the definition, but we are definately moving in that direction.

Also its not simply about nations being "not welcoming to outsiders"

its more when you have the main political parties using xenophobia and ultranationalism as a political strategy to garner support from the public.

So it's about the way it's used? I don't like the term Xenophobia or acting like it's a negative. Multiculturalism is a weakness. If I move to Japan or Israel, they're going to expect me to assimilate to their culture. They have every right to do that. They also have every right to preserve their demographic majority. People usually don't want to become a minority in their own country.

 

[vancityeagle]

So it's about the way it's used? I don't like the term Xenophobia or acting like it's a negative. Multiculturalism is a weakness. If I move to Japan or Israel, they're going to expect me to assimilate to their culture. They have every right to do that. They also have every right to preserve their demographic majority. People usually don't want to become a minority in their own country.

you can assimilate to a culture while still maintaining the unique aspects of your culture.

Most cultures are a mix and hybridization of various different cultures.

European culture is largely based around Christianity, which is a middle eastern culture.

Cultures change and evolve, they are never static. The idea that cultures cannot or do not mix is nonsense and denies the entire history of the globe.

with regards to America, who does "their own country" refer to ? Who does America belong to ?

 

[weskrongden]

He can say anything he wants, its actions that are important.

Trump has made it much harder for legal immigrants than before, even adding certain countries to his ban list. Even before Trump the USA is one of the hardest countries to immigrate to legally.

TPUSA plays into the whole divide and rule, "our culture is under attack" narrative. That automatically creates an anti-immigration sentiment. Yeah they support legal immigration, but again as with Trump legal immigration is to be very small and hard for immigrants to come in, and also they have a preference of which countries legal immigrants should come from.

Like I said TPUSA are just offering a more watered down, luke warm, version of what a guy like David Duke is saying.

and one of the goals of groups like TPUSA is to act as gateway drugs to more hard core radicalized right wing propaganda. So people who one day listened to TPUSA will tomorrow see them as not strong enough and progress to listening to David Duke.

That's just not true. There are many countries harder to immigrate too. The USA takes 1.2 million legal immigrants per year, we've taken massive amounts of legal immigrants over the past few decades. The Trump administration released it's immigration plan and it doesn't cut the number of legal immigrants at all. It's not fascist to say immigrants shouldn't be allowed to come if they'll use welfare. There is no preference for countries, just "skills." This sort of change would mean more Indians and Asians, not whites. I'm against these "skilled" immigrants as well, but that's me, not Trump.

 

[weskrongden]

you can assimilate to a culture while still maintaining the unique aspects of your culture.

Most cultures are a mix and hybridization of various different cultures.

European culture is largely based around Christianity, which is a middle eastern culture.

Cultures change and evolve, they are never static. The idea that cultures cannot or do not mix is nonsense and denies the entire history of the globe.

with regards to America, who does "their own country" refer to ? Who does America belong to ?

America was always intended to be for Europeans.

 

[justjess]

No country on Earth is anywhere close to as fat as America. You're talking to someone who isn't opposed to the idea of universal healthcare in theory. But all these obese Americans are putting a strain on the system. We'd need some strong surcharge to get obesity down, I think Japan does that. I doubt you'll hear anything from the Democrats about that, they're more about "body image positivity" even if you get diabetes.

What you are proposing is a stick. I just said we need carrots. Behavior modification 101. The obesity rate isn’t why we don’t have universal healthcare. We don’t have universal healthcare because the private health industry makes too much profit to allow it and has too much power and influence over our political system.

 

[Wigi]

I want to look at both ultranationalism in terms of state and people

1) state - "America first" Trump clearly advocates the interests of the USA and Israel

So you say Trump personify ultranationalism and right after that you say he advocate the interest of Israel. How does that fit with the definition of ultranationalism?

Most cultures are a mix and hybridization of various different cultures.

European culture is largely based around Christianity, which is a middle eastern culture

You're using the term culture to mean civilisation. It's a false reasoning and it's a false assumption to believe all countries can add foreign cultures peacefully. Multiculturalism in itself appears to be a form of colonization as there is a double standard depending on the people who exalt their culture. There is nothing that makes me say it's something people accept naturally.

Cultures change and evolve, they are never static. The idea that cultures cannot or do not mix is nonsense and denies the entire history of the globe.

Once again you're using the word culture to mean civilisation and yes, various forms of replacement occured in the past. The fact that people conflate Great replacement with xenophobia to deny its existence proves the hypocrisy that thrives among historians and the left regarding today's situation.

 

[Aero]

How do you expect Americans not to get fat? Healthy food is literally a luxury.

 

[Thunderian]

Like I said TPUSA are just offering a more watered down, luke warm, version of what a guy like David Duke is saying.

I doubt it. David Duke’s bag is hating Jews. That’s why he likes Ilhan Omar.

David Duke praises Rep. Ilhan Omar

Rep. Ilhan Omar, Minnesota Democrat, has an ally of a new stripe in the furor over her use of anti-Semitic tropes regarding Israel and its American supporters David Duke. In a Thursday podcast at his site, the former Ku Klux Klan Grand Wizard spoke out strongly in favor of the Muslim...

apnews.com

 

[justjess]

Buttigieg dropped out. Yay!? I guess he realized he’s splitting he moderate vote.

 

[Thunderian]

I just saw that. I wonder who his support will go to.

 

[justjess]

Probably split between warren and Biden - that’s my best guess. I know people were complaining he was pulling the college educated demographic that warren was counting on, and he was in the same lane as Biden. My aunts super liberal California family was warren supporters but just called her today to tell her to vote for Biden (she is in her 50’s so idk why they are telling her who to vote for at all) because warren has no path so that might start influencing things as well.. Idk the field is still a mess

We don’t vote til the end of April so I’m pretty sure by then I won’t have much to be conflicted over. I’m for warren but by the time we vote I’m pretty sure she won’t be a choice. Sanders it is..

 

[vancityeagle]

I doubt it. David Duke’s bag is hating Jews. That’s why he likes Ilhan Omar.

David Duke praises Rep. Ilhan Omar

Rep. Ilhan Omar, Minnesota Democrat, has an ally of a new stripe in the furor over her use of anti-Semitic tropes regarding Israel and its American supporters David Duke. In a Thursday podcast at his site, the former Ku Klux Klan Grand Wizard spoke out strongly in favor of the Muslim...

apnews.com

Ilhan Omar doesn't hate Jews. She is supporting the only Jewish candidate for president.

Omar like me has a problem with Zionism which is basically Jewish supremacy. Now yes I will grant you that Duke will support her and anybody who says anything against Israel and ZIonism, not out of legitimate principal, but because he is genuinely anti-semetic. This does not mean that Omar's stance on Zionism is not correct, nor does it mean even Duke's criticism of Zionism is not correct. This means, in this specific instance, that Duke is doing the right thing for the wrong reasons.

Duke ultimately does not like people who look like Omar, and he may pretend like he doesn't have a problem with black and brown people, for now he seems fixated on Jews, but nobody with a real brain buys his act. Keep in mind that to the white supremacists, their MAIN problem with Jews and "Jewish power" is that they are using minorities to "keep the white man down" and "destroy his culture and civilization"

TPUSA essentially says the same thing except they substitute "jews" for "liberal/progressives", and instead of the victims being "the white race" its "conservatives/patriots/christians" Minorities who think the right thoughts are allowed into the fold in their version of what is essentially the same as Duke's propaganda and world view.

This is essentially the difference between the alt-right and the alt-light which if you read between the lines are saying pretty much the same thing

1. Alt-Right - David Duke - Jews are destroying the white race

2. Alt-Light - TPUSA - Progressives are destroying America


It doesn't take much for somebody going down this path of radicalization to say

"hey a lot of these progressives are really Jews, and America equals white people"

TPUSA are just as much a part of the problem as David Duke, in fact I would argue much more so, because they reach a much wider audience of people and have a level of respectability that Duke does not have.

Ultimately organizations like TPUSA end up sending people down the path to guys like Duke. Stages of radicalization.

 

[Thunderian]

Ilhan Omar doesn't hate Jews. She is supporting the only Jewish candidate for president.

LOL

 

[vancityeagle]

LOL

I dont see what is so funny. Do you have any proof that Omar hates Jews ? And if you believe she does, why would she support a Jewish president out of all the options ?

the anti-semetic smear is so DONE.

the thing is there are genuine anti-semites out there, but the Zionists seem to be in bed with them. They are more worried about legitimate criticism of Zionism.