The Democratic Primaries

justjess

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My grandfather was a millionaire in his later life. He was a construction worker who became disabled in his late 40’s (bad back, heart issues). But his primary residence (only residence) was a multi family home that allowed him to collect rents when he lost income and get by. That same house appreciated in value over the 50 years he lived there and he had no mortgage having long since paid it off. He also lived very humbly, drove the same car for decades, never went on vacation, grew a lot of his own produce etc. No jewelry to inherit when he passed, no fancy furniture or much more than family photos and kitchen ware

He. Wrote. A. Book.

He released ten years of tax returns and has filed his required federal financial disclosures every every for decades. Go look at them.
 

Lisa

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My grandfather was a millionaire in his later life. He was a construction worker who became disabled in his late 40’s (bad back, heart issues). But his primary residence (only residence) was a multi family home that allowed him to collect rents when he lost income and get by. That same house appreciated in value over the 50 years he lived there and he had no mortgage having long since paid it off. He also lived very humbly, drove the same car for decades, never went on vacation, grew a lot of his own produce etc. No jewelry to inherit when he passed, no fancy furniture or much more than family photos and kitchen ware

He. Wrote. A. Book.

He released ten years of tax returns and has filed his required federal financial disclosures every every for decades. Go look at them.
Should I be impressed he wrote a book? Doesn’t make what he wrote in it true does it?
 

justjess

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Should I be impressed he wrote a book? Doesn’t make what he wrote in it true does it?
No Lisa... you accused him of taking kickbacks but he made the money to buy those houses because he wrote a damn book. All his financials have been available for years and up until 2016 he was “broke” - nowhere near a millionaire.

Are you incapable of keeping up with your own arguments/conversation?
Or do you switch goal posts to distract from the fact that everything you say is nonsense?
 

Lisa

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No Lisa... you accused him of taking kickbacks but he made the money to buy those houses because he wrote a damn book. All his financials have been available for years and up until 2016 he was “broke” - nowhere near a millionaire.

Are you incapable of keeping up with your own arguments/conversation?
Or do you switch goal posts to distract from the fact that everything you say is nonsense?
He wrote a book and that meant he was able to buy 3 houses...or he‘s been in the government for quite some time...and was able to buy 3 houses and become a millionaire...hmmm..wonder if that has anything at all to do with it?
 

justjess

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He wrote a book and that meant he was able to buy 3 houses...or he‘s been in the government for quite some time...and was able to buy 3 houses and become a millionaire...hmmm..wonder if that has anything at all to do with it?
He had 2 houses - one in each state he lived in - up until the book royalties. Both of which were heavily mortgaged. After the first book they paid off one house. After the second book they bought the vacation home. Go check out all his financials for yourself Lisa, unlike our presidents his are all easily available to peruse.

And seriously just knock it off. Until you have something valid to come at him stop throwing whatever nonsense you can string together at the wall hoping it will stick.

I already broke down the math on the Washington house for you. It’s worth less than 500k and was bought for even less then that. 180 nights a year for 30 years in a hotel room would have cost FAR MORE than that.

As a country we’ve spent 100 times more than that on trumps golf outings so far. Your being incredibly disingenuous.
 

Lisa

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He had 2 houses - one in each state he lived in - up until the book royalties. Both of which were heavily mortgaged. After the first book they paid off one house. After the second book they bought the vacation home. Go check out all his financials for yourself Lisa, unlike our presidents his are all easily available to peruse.

And seriously just knock it off. Until you have something valid to come at him stop throwing whatever nonsense you can string together at the wall hoping it will stick.

I already broke down the math on the Washington house for you. It’s worth less than 500k and was bought for even less then that. 180 nights a year for 30 years in a hotel room would have cost FAR MORE than that.

As a country we’ve spent 100 times more than that on trumps golf outings so far. Your being incredibly disingenuous.
Lol...what about Obama’s golfing? And doesn’t trump golf at his golf courses? How much could that be costing anyone?

Ya...I don’t believe one book is enough to make it big...it takes a lot of books.
 

rainerann

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Lol...what about Obama’s golfing? And doesn’t trump golf at his golf courses? How much could that be costing anyone?

Ya...I don’t believe one book is enough to make it big...it takes a lot of books.
it takes a lot of books if no one knows who you are. You would spend most of that time hoping for a book to go viral and writing more than one increases your chances of this happening.

however, if your Bernie sanders who is a long term member of congress that published a book after running for president, this legwork is already done for you.

on amazon, his book is selling for 20 dollars. If he was getting 10 percent in royalties that would be two dollars for every book that is sold.

multiply this by a low estimate of a 500,000 books sold and he would make a million in royalties. I don’t have to look anything up to realize this potential. It is almost like you don’t have a whole lot of experience managing money.

it would be better overall if you would stick to disagreeing with his politics. I haven’t been following the election this year so I don’t even really know what’s being said. I might not agree with his politics, but as far as discussing his financials, there is nothing that I find objection with. It is completely possible to make that much money with one book if you already have some degree of celebrity.
 

justjess

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Lol...what about Obama’s golfing? And doesn’t trump golf at his golf courses? How much could that be costing anyone?

Ya...I don’t believe one book is enough to make it big...it takes a lot of books.
It is literally all in his tax returns and financial disclosures. Less than a million in royalties for a book by a presidential candidate isn’t “making it big”

And yes obama went golfing.. way less often then trump does and on properties owned by the government. Trump golfs on his own courses and charges the federal government for it. So he’s costing taxpayers for his leisure and profiting off it at the same damn time.
 

Thunderian

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Here’s what I don’t get. First, I agree that Bernie’s wealth is nothing for him to be ashamed of, is totally reasonable for someone at his stage in life, and three houses makes sense, given his circumstances. I mean, it’s not like the homes are in Aspen, or Malibu.

What I get stuck on is the insistence that his millions of dollars and three homes is reasonable, but someone else’s billions of dollars and their own multiple homes are not. Who judges what’s appropriate for anyone else to have? Bernie, if you’ll recall, used to rail against millionaires, too, but that dried up when he became one.

I was saying to my wife yesterday that socialism’s first and biggest sin, at least in a country like the US, is telling people that they don’t have enough, just because someone else has way more. The poorest in America still live in a style that a huge part of the rest of the world can only dream of. Part of the American dream that so many of them aspire to is the chance to make something of themselves by their own hard work. It’s to America’s shame that an Indian or Vietnamese can come here, work three jobs, raise a big family, and, through frugality and sacrifice, end up owning a home and business, all while struggling with the language, while Americans born here blow money on booze and cigarettes, cars they can’t afford, Playstations, iPhones, and whatever other useless fripperies the TV tells them they need, and then wonder why they can’t get ahead.

Then Bernie comes along and tells them that it’s not their fault they’re poor, it’s those pesky billionaires who are hoarding all the wealth. Am I allowed, then, to point at anyone who has more than I do and blame them because I have less? Because that’s what Bernie’s preaching. He says that billionaires don’t need that much, so why can’t I say that a millionaire doesn’t need a lake house? Rent a spot in a campground and pitch a tent like the rest of us, Bernie. Right? If he can make a million dollars writing a book, why can’t Jeff Bezos make a billion dollars selling server space?

Capitalism is still the best way for the most people to improve their lives. If you don’t like what you have, work harder, be frugal, save your money. That’s how my grandparents did it, after they escaped the socialist paradise of the USSR, and that’s how millions of immigrants are doing it today.
 

rainerann

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Monopolization is a valid complaint in regard to billionaires. Most people who bring up the issue with billionaires don’t mention the subject of monopolization, but that is the difference. Monopolization hurts the economy. There are many examples that echo the reasons why laws were created to prevent monopolies.
 

Wigi

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Then Bernie comes along and tells them that it’s not their fault they’re poor, it’s those pesky billionaires who are hoarding all the wealth
I'll say it the way I see it but Bernie is a more aged François Hollande.
He's teasing a social administration in exchange of taxation but in the end the wealthy (GAFAM and big oil) won't be taxed because it's not compatible with economic growth.
But I have to admit that Hollande as candidate was less prudent than Bernie because he went full commie the day he said he would fight single handedly the tyranny of banks (try not to laugh).
 

Lisa

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it takes a lot of books if no one knows who you are. You would spend most of that time hoping for a book to go viral and writing more than one increases your chances of this happening.

however, if your Bernie sanders who is a long term member of congress that published a book after running for president, this legwork is already done for you.

on amazon, his book is selling for 20 dollars. If he was getting 10 percent in royalties that would be two dollars for every book that is sold.

multiply this by a low estimate of a 500,000 books sold and he would make a million in royalties. I don’t have to look anything up to realize this potential. It is almost like you don’t have a whole lot of experience managing money.

it would be better overall if you would stick to disagreeing with his politics. I haven’t been following the election this year so I don’t even really know what’s being said. I might not agree with his politics, but as far as discussing his financials, there is nothing that I find objection with. It is completely possible to make that much money with one book if you already have some degree of celebrity.
Long term member of congress is more the reason for the wealth..but besides that, why would good ol Bern need any wealth? Why hasn’t he just given it away to be like the regular people he’s talking for? That is something I don’t really understand really. No one should have more than the other..he makes the rules...seems like he’s had an unfair advantage all these years..and now he wants to take that away so others can’t get it...at least that’s what its really going to come down to, whether his supporters want to believe that or not.

I can disagree with how he made his fortune too...
 

justjess

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@Lisa He is the regular people he is speaking for dumbass. He was broke as a joke for years, his late life stroke of luck doesn’t negate that. Especially when he is STILL POOR compared to most people in his age bracket. It is recommended to save 2-3 million for the averag middle class family for retirement. He isn’t worth that much and almost all of his money is tied up in real estate that he personally uses.

@Thunderian i don’t care if you have 100 billion dollars as long as you are paying the employees who helped you accumulate that fortune a living wage with good benefits and paying your fair share in taxes. That is what is being discussed. If you can’t discern that, then the problem is your discernment. Not the conversation. @rainerann has a point about monopolies as well, they push small businesses out of existence because they simply can’t compete. The working and middle class are being squeezed out of existence and the lot of you are worrying about a billionaire maybe having to buy one less yacht? But probably not even that. It’s mind boggling.
 

TempestOfTempo

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According to Fidelity research, many people become millionaire's in their late 50's. When I say millionaire, I mean they do reach a net value of a million dollars in some form whether in a retirement account or real estate holdings or something. This is actually a different way of measuring a millionaire than we commonly see. Most of the time when we hear the term millionaire, they are referring to people who have a million dollars in liquid assets not including retirement accounts or real estate holdings. Many people might think reaching a million dollars in assets is still something difficult because of this, but it isn't.

Their are a lot of industries that pay very well. The technology sector for one. It is reasonable to assume that every programmer, analyst, whatever, has the potential to have a million dollars in some form within their lifetime. Many people working in healthcare can also expect the same. Electricians, welders, and some of these specialty positions are fully capable of something like this as well.

The problem is that there is a disparity between sectors and there are many people doing work that has value and requires skill, that are not being compensated the same way. But, in terms of whether Bernie could be considered an average joe based on his real estate holdings, he still can. He is an older man who has had a six-figure job for some time. His decision to manage his money this way so that he does have assets with a net value of over a million dollars is just a sign of good money management as far as I'm concerned.

In reality, the number of million-dollar fidelity accounts could be higher, but you have to factor in that some people are spending a lot. Some people are wasting their money on junk and that is one reason that number is not higher. The fact that he didn't waste his money on junk does not mean that he no longer represents an average Joe.


Type millionaire is the new middle class in your search bar. There are a ton of articles and even books that are being published all saying the exact same thing. Millionaire status is where our middle class should be.
Millionaires are the new middle class? Just ask the German people how that worked out after the first world war lol
 

Lisa

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@Lisa He is the regular people he is speaking for dumbass. He was broke as a joke for years, his late life stroke of luck doesn’t negate that. Especially when he is STILL POOR compared to most people in his age bracket. It is recommended to save 2-3 million for the averag middle class family for retirement. He isn’t worth that much and almost all of his money is tied up in real estate that he personally uses.

@Thunderian i don’t care if you have 100 billion dollars as long as you are paying the employees who helped you accumulate that fortune a living wage with good benefits and paying your fair share in taxes. That is what is being discussed. If you can’t discern that, then the problem is your discernment. Not the conversation. @rainerann has a point about monopolies as well, they push small businesses out of existence because they simply can’t compete. The working and middle class are being squeezed out of existence and the lot of you are worrying about a billionaire maybe having to buy one less yacht? But probably not even that. It’s mind boggling.
He isn’t the regular people. Sell his houses and give his money away and live like he wants people to live, without wealth and all equal, then he’d be less of a hypocrite. You can’t want equality and have more yourself.
 

TempestOfTempo

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@Lisa He is the regular people he is speaking for dumbass. He was broke as a joke for years, his late life stroke of luck doesn’t negate that. Especially when he is STILL POOR compared to most people in his age bracket. It is recommended to save 2-3 million for the averag middle class family for retirement. He isn’t worth that much and almost all of his money is tied up in real estate that he personally uses.

@Thunderian i don’t care if you have 100 billion dollars as long as you are paying the employees who helped you accumulate that fortune a living wage with good benefits and paying your fair share in taxes. That is what is being discussed. If you can’t discern that, then the problem is your discernment. Not the conversation. @rainerann has a point about monopolies as well, they push small businesses out of existence because they simply can’t compete. The working and middle class are being squeezed out of existence and the lot of you are worrying about a billionaire maybe having to buy one less yacht? But probably not even that. It’s mind boggling.
Monopolization is a valid complaint in regard to billionaires. Most people who bring up the issue with billionaires don’t mention the subject of monopolization, but that is the difference. Monopolization hurts the economy. There are many examples that echo the reasons why laws were created to prevent monopolies.
Please dont let this complete fool spin yall in circles.... shes the genius typing about how great Trump is at economics and how ours is "booming" lol Shes a pedo supporter, plain and simple.....
 

Lisa

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Please dont let this complete fool spin yall in circles.... shes the genius typing about how great Trump is at economics and how ours is "booming" lol Shes a pedo supporter, plain and simple.....
So far...no one seems to be able to prove anything against him and they’ve tried..so I don’t know what you’re talking about.
 

justjess

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He isn’t the regular people. Sell his houses and give his money away and live like he wants people to live, without wealth and all equal, then he’d be less of a hypocrite. You can’t want equality and have more yourself.
He isn’t advocating or arguing for everyone to be poor. He is advocating and arguing for the poor to have a better standard of life. Decreasing gross wealth inequality is not the same thing as “everyone having an equal paycheck”

Please go read the definition of hypocrite
 
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