The Day Fidel Castro Declared Cuba Free of Illiteracy

Etagloc

Superstar
Joined
Mar 26, 2017
Messages
5,291
The Day Fidel Castro Declared Cuba Free of Illiteracy
Published 22 December 2016

"Only a country in revolution would have been capable of deploying the effort and energy necessary to carry out such a gigantic mission," Fidel said.
Fifty-five years ago today, the Cuban leader Fidel Castro declared the socialist island a territory free of illiteracy, fulfilling the dream of the Cuban Revolution that began with a massive free literacy program for all Cubans.

RELATED:
Cuban University Students Commit to Continue Fidel's Legacy

Fidel's words on that famous Dec. 22, 1961, in Revolutionary Plaza in Havana, was a result of the hard work of more than 250,000 young Cubans who took part in the volunteer literacy brigades that traveled the entire breadth of the island bringing literacy to the most remote corners of the country.

"No moment is more solemn and exciting, no instant full of legitimate pride and glory than this, in which four and a half centuries of ignorance have been defeated," said Fidel.


"When we said we would eradicate illiteracy in only one year, it seemed a reckless statement, it seemed impossible," he continued. "Only a country in revolution would have been capable of deploying the effort and energy necessary to carry out such a gigantic mission."

Every year on Dec. 22, Cuba celebrates Teachers' Day, to remember the hard work of its citizens' unprecedented achievement to become the first Latin American country free of illiteracy.

During an event to celebrate the anniversary in Havana, a group of teachers who volunteered during the campaign honored Fidel Castro and his work to improve education in the island.

"It was a task for everyone. Fidel called and the youth responded," said Zoila Benitez, one of the teachers who participated in the literacy campaign.

Olga Lidia Tapia, a member of the Cuban Communist Party, said the revolutionary education process in Cuba has changed the island forever and inspired others around the world.

"This process transformed realities and made reading and writing a legacy for all," said Tapia.

https://www.telesurtv.net/english/news/The-Day-Fidel-Castro-Declared-Cuba-Free-of-Iliteracy-20161222-0021.html



(Ejercito de alfabetizdores translation: Army of Literacy Teachers)






The Secret History of how Cuba Helped End Apartheid in South Africa
 
Last edited:

Etagloc

Superstar
Joined
Mar 26, 2017
Messages
5,291
Yea there is a lot of propaganda... but they still aren't communist though.
Communism is the end goal of socialism.

Cuba has not reached the end goal of perfect communist paradise.... that is true. But Cuba has accomplished great things.

I have talked to Cubans on both sides as far as how they view Fidel.... one of the anti-Fidel Cubans.... even he told me there is more discrimination and mistreatment against black people in California than in Cuba.
 

mecca

Superstar
Joined
Mar 13, 2017
Messages
7,122
Communism is the end goal of socialism.

Cuba has not reached the end goal of perfect communist paradise.... that is true. But Cuba has accomplished great things.

I have talked to Cubans on both sides as far as how they view Fidel.... one of the anti-Fidel Cubans.... even he told me there is more discrimination and mistreatment against black people in California than in Cuba.
Yeah but I don't think communism can be achieved through a state.
 

Etagloc

Superstar
Joined
Mar 26, 2017
Messages
5,291
now the historical transition from capitalism to wonderful communist utopia......

it does not happen overnight.... reaching super-amazing communist utopia.... would be a historical process.....

when I'm looking at Cuba, I don't look at the Cuban Revolution through the lens of expecting it to create an amazing Communist utopia.....

to make a sort of Communist utopia where everyone lives like a giant happy family.... it would take the involvement of multiple countries.... I don't think Cuba could do it completely alone....

and is some sort of Communist utopia achievable?

look at all the power the US has...... if the US turned socialist and decided to use its power to try to help the homeless and enlighten people, etc.... I'm sure all types of real progress could be made...... so to me the idea of an actually-existing Communist utopia.... whether or not it is actually achievable, I think it is sort of like a theoretical abstraction..... a theoretical ideal...... if it is achievable, it has not been achieved yet.....

but in order to reach such higher stages... a country would have to have its independence first..... and so Cuba has done a lot for the construction of socialism, for its development...... it has not created a Communist utopia but... I do not think it would be realistic for Cuba to do so without the support of other powers.... as it is it is still a small island having to resist the most powerful country in the world.... I think it's doing pretty well considering what it's up against- given the context...
 

mecca

Superstar
Joined
Mar 13, 2017
Messages
7,122
it does not happen overnight.... reaching super-amazing communist utopia.... would be a historical process.....
Yeah creating a just society is an ongoing process... it's not even really a utopia, the people really have to put in work to make it work. There will be flaws and kinks that will arise over time which would need to be worked out but they will be addressed and resolved by the communities instead of a ruling class. Everyone has to put in the effort to reach the ideal egalitarian society that's not based on exploitation and hierarchy.
look at all the power the US has...... if the US turned socialist and decided to use its power to try to help the homeless and enlighten people, etc.... I'm sure all types of real progress could be made...... so to me the idea of an actually-existing Communist utopia.... whether or not it is actually achievable, I think it is sort of like a theoretical abstraction...
Yeah but that could only happen through the will of the people. In order to create a positive and egalitarian society, (especially if it's decentralized) people's mindsets really do need to change. They can't be apathetic towards the issues in the world and they actually have to care about more than just themselves. It's a revolution of the mind first, then our actions can reflect what we believe.
if it is achievable, it has not been achieved yet.....
but in order to reach such higher stages... a country would have to have its independence first..... and so Cuba has done a lot for the construction of socialism, for its development...... it has not created a Communist utopia
That's true independence is 100% important (which is why this topic is more complex)... I think democratic socialism is more easily feasible at least in this current time... but it's less preferable. If you look at a place like Rojava, they are creating a decentralized community government based on direct democracy even though it's a risk and they could be more easily targeted. It's certainly not perfect but the fact that they are trying is good at least. A more positive and beneficial society is feasible but it does take time and effort, plus people have to actually want change.

For Rojava to thrive and more places like it to arise, many people have to change their world view. You are right that the involvement of multiple countries is required... because if people are challenging the status quo when others aren't, it's easier to take them out. But if we want freedom for the whole world, then most people have to be on the same page. That's why I think there must be a paradigm shift in people's mindset. Creating a society based on community and mutual aid requires people to be caring of others.
 
Last edited:

Etagloc

Superstar
Joined
Mar 26, 2017
Messages
5,291
Yeah creating a just society is an ongoing process... it's not even really a utopia, the people really have to put in work to make it work. There will be flaws and kinks that will arise over time which would need to be worked out but they will be addressed and resolved by the communities instead of a ruling class. Everyone has to put in the effort to reach the ideal egalitarian society that's not based on exploitation and hierarchy.

Yeah but that could only happen through the will of the people. In order to create a positive and egalitarian society, (especially if it's decentralized) people's mindsets really do need to change. They can't be apathetic towards the issues in the world and they actually have to care about more than just themselves. It's a revolution of the mind first, then our actions can reflect what we believe.

That's true independence is 100% important (which is why this topic is more complex)... I think democratic socialism is more easily feasible at least in this current time... but it's less preferable. If you look at a place like Rojava, they are creating a decentralized community government based on direct democracy even though it's a risk and they could be more easily targeted. It's certainly not perfect but the fact that they are trying is good at least. A more positive and beneficial society is feasible but it does take time and effort, plus people have to actually want change.

For Rojava to thrive and more places like it to arise, many people have to change their world view. You are right that the involvement of multiple countries is required... because if people are challenging the status quo when others aren't, it's easier to take them out. But if we want freedom for the whole world, then most people have to be on the same page. That's why I think there must be a paradigm shift in people's mindset. Creating a society based on community and mutual aid requires people to be caring of others.
To be honest, I do not remotely understand Rojava.

I like to focus where I know. There is this quote from Mao.... "Many people think it impossible for guerrillas to exist for long in the enemy's rear. Such a belief reveals lack of comprehension of the relationship that should exist between the people and the troops. The former may be likened to water the latter to the fish who inhabit it. How may it be said that these two cannot exist together?"

I know today it that people like Mao are very controversial.

However.... if Mao was truly guilty of such vicious crimes........ if he really was a horrible criminal who committed crimes against Chinese people..... then why is it the US that remembers him badly while in China he is on their currency? My neighbor has a bill of Chinese currency and I have seen it and I have seen how they have Mao on their money.....

When it comes to Cuba, Mexico, Latin America, etc...... I feel like Mao's guerrilla as far as the water.... of course I am just a regular person.... but if you think from a certain type of perspective.... these alternative ways of thinking... they can be implemented and they can succeed.... but they have to embrace the particular..... the alternative thinker is a fish and he needs water which will support him..... and so since I am obsessed with that region and I am very interested in that region, to me that region and is are like water..... with Rojava, I am completely out of my water.....

I know nothing about Rojava.... for me I like Latin America and I feel like I have an advantage when it comes to Spanish-speaking Latin America (not so much the Portugese-Speaking Brazil.......)... because with all the anti-Castro fanatics.... they rely on second-hand sources which are propaganda..... for me, I can go and YouTube and listen to Fidel and the material relating to him without any translation or with any secondary sources.... I can study the man for myself.... and then plus the material for example the writings of Che Guevara.... Che wrote an essay saying that Cuba was serving as a vanguard.... he had a speech to the youth where he said discussed the concept of vanguardia..... the vanguardia.... being vanguard.

For you.... Latin America can be interested to study and its anti-imperialist movements can serve as models but my advice would be to find.... if you haven't already.... a region or the region that you wish to particularly study.... and focus on that region.... and focus on other regions simultaneously.... the problem with eurocentrism is it's boring. No one really wants eurocentrism. Not even eurocentrists. They push eurocentrism while they eat Mexican food and while their kids try to imitate rappers. Rachel Dolezal.... she might be very funny but even she was a woman wishing to escape eurocentrism. Her case might be funny and bizarre but I think that is the psychological reason behind it. Eurocentrism cannot be sustained because it is incestuous. Incestuoism causes deformity........ a healthy culture is not the bizarre Aryanism of a Nazi Germany.... look at what happens with fascism.... with Nazi Germany.... they had Einstein.... they had Albert Einstein..... Germany did... and then with the Nazis they done lost Einstein. In El Salvador, they killed their own intellectuals. In Chile, they killed Pablo Neruda. In.... where was the other place... Italy. In Italy, Mussolini killed Gramsci.

If you love Italy, El Salvador, Chile.... those people should be the pride and joy of those places.... or even Athens with Socrates... Socrates brought something incredible to Athens...... and he was thanked with execution.... in any case there are two approaches as I see it.... and one is a unipolar approach which I think is like Nazi Aryanism.... incestuousness....... and then there is the mixing..... there is the multipolar approach.... if someone is concerned with a family bloodline for example.... in the past many family bloodlines of powerful people... they practiced incest... they were obsessed with a "purity" that was not of purity in the good sense..... but what is healthy is the fusion..... with Athens, if I understand correctly there were people from all over the world coming to Athens......

Anyways, so if you Rojova and any region its associated with.... any type of regional stuff interests you.... I really recommend interest in regionally-based stuff.... the bland superficial universalism that is aimed at homogenizing the world.... I consider as a disease....

so let's see.... having gotten the thinking of regionalism out of the way.....

hmm.... I don't think Cuba is undemocratic. I think the majority of the people support their government. Were that not the case, I don't think their government would have lasted so long. Of course there is a faction of anti-Castro Cubans. There always are the reactionaries- the counter-revolution.



I admire the Cuban Revolution and I think Fidel was a hero and that now that he is no longer here that has become a legend. He will go down in history among other leaders of Latin American independence, such as Simón Bolívar and José Martí, Hugo Chávez, José Vasconcelos. A second wave of Latin American independence. He is extremely important in the history of Latin America. He is extremely important in the history of socialism and the history of anti-colonialism and anti-imperialism.



the stuff about democracy...... I regard the Cubans as heroes.... when we are looking at the will of the Cuban people... we have consider the Cuban people as a totality... we cannot consider only the "gusanos" of Miami

not all the Cuban immigrants are gusanos and there are Cuban immigants who I really respect.... I respect Celia Cruz for example.... but there are Cuban immigrants who are right-wing fanatics... even who are terrorists!!!.... there is a dark history of the Cuban immigrant right-wing engaging in terrorism... against Cubans!


this is a video of Castro denouncing the gusanos..... it is very brief.... it is not in English but I show it so people can see the tone of voice he used... listen to his voice.... his voice and the tone he uses shows how he felt.... he denounced the gusanos as traitors.... Cuba has a revolution for its independence and..... the revolution is wonderful but as great and as important as it is in the historical process towards progress..... the revolution is not necessarily democratic..... for example, if you are George Washington.... if I was George Washington and I had to go against the British.... if I had to shut down dissent from the supporters of British imperialism.... then I would shut them down in a heartbeat... if I had to do that to protect the independence of the US..... the US is very different than Cuba.... US, Cuba... Rojava..... these are very different places..... if people want socialism in the US, the US doesn't have to take the route Cuba went..... I think socialism could be brought about peacefully and democratically.... different things work differently in different locations.... that's why I think it is important that the thinking is tied to a concrete region.... through this way it will achieve universality through the particular.... whereas if it refuses to engage with the particular then its refusal becomes universal......

so what I would say.... I would say what is transcendental in your post is your embracing of historicity... of the concrete. You talk about Rojava. Any movement based in the realities of Cuba has to be based in the soil of Cuba and Latin America. Cuba is not Rojava and Rojava is not Cuba. They are not the same and they should not be the shame. If people in Rojava wanted to follow the lessons of Che, Fidel and the Cuban Revolution.... then the way to do so would be to study the lessons of Rojava!

Cuba's government I believe is supported by the will of the people. Were it not then I don't think it would be standing. So the idea that Rojava's government and Cuba's government.... that Rojava is supported by the people... and Cuba is not.... I do not think is correct.

A lot of the relevant material is not in Engish.

However Daniel Ortega was right.

If you listen to this he asks this crowd in Cuba "where is Fidel?"

and the crowd is screaming "Yo soy Fidel!" "Yo soy Fidel!" (I am Fidel)


Ortega looks into the people and says that Fidel is in the people. And so Fidel is immortal. Because he is alive in millions of people. This is where the Cuban Revolution draws its strength, just as where the Bolivarian Revolution in Venezuela draws its strength, the Mexican Revolution, the revolution in Vietnam, the Russian revolution.... any successful revolution.....

so any attack on the Cuban Revolution is an attack on a vanguard... there is nothing useful in giving concessions to the reactionaries...... but there is something transcendental in making Rojava a part of the discussion.... of finding a new center in Rojava
 
Last edited:

Etagloc

Superstar
Joined
Mar 26, 2017
Messages
5,291
Of course it is a sign that the Cuban Revolution was a transcendental victory in a larger, internationalist struggle against colonialism..... it is a sign that this is the case when a spokesman for Zionism.... a theology of colonialism.... a gospel of colonialism..... tries to attack Cuba... it is a sign of Cuba's anti-colonialism that a colonalist tries to attack it.... I am sure there were plenty of insults thrown at all the movements which sought to advance human progress
 

Thunderian

Superstar
Joined
Mar 13, 2017
Messages
7,515
Cuba is a nightmare. Let's start with it's wonderful healthcare:

There are few modern myths the have been debunked as frequently yet have been accepted as incredulously as the idea that Cuba has a superior (or even adequate) health care system. Articles have been written since the 1960s debunking the nonsensical claims about health care in Cuba and yet it is invariably the issue that is trotted out to show how socialism can actually be effective.

Although adding one more article to the pile probably won’t make a difference, it can’t hurt to be prepared with arguments in case you’re cornered by a Castro apologist like PM Trudeau. Here are six facts that reveal the truth about the Cuban health care system:

1. Cuban hospitals are a horror show



2. Cubans endure extreme inequality of healthcare

In Cuba, there are three tiers: One for foreigners who can pay with hard currency, one for Cuban elites (government officials, celebrities, etc.), and one for the common people.

3. Cuban doctors are woefully underpaid

A young doctor would have to work for more than a week just to afford a gallon of milk (average cost: $7.10). If he doesn’t have such expensive taste he can go forgo the dairy for cheaper fare: a pound of potatoes only cost about one day’s wage (90 cents).

4. Medical care is free, but medication is costly and scarce

In Cuba, medication for hospitalized patients is free, but all outpatient medications have to be paid for out-of-pocket. And all medications (even aspirin) require a prescription. There are also no private pharmacies (except on the black market) so you have to get your Tylenol at a state-run pharmacy. That is, if you can find one. American pharmacist Donna Kosteva tells of her experience traveling to Cuba.

5. Abortion keeps infant mortality low

A woman’s pregnancy is closely monitored. And if there is any sign of abnormality, any reason for concern — the pregnancy is “interrupted.” That is the going euphemism for abortion. The abortion rate in Cuba is sky-high, perversely keeping the infant-mortality rate down.

6. Cubans trade freedom for preventive care

Imagine your doctor knocking at your door to give, not just you, but your whole family an annual health check-up.

As well as taking blood pressure, checking hearts and asking all sorts of questions about your job and your lifestyle, this doctor is also taking careful note of the state of your home, assessing anything which could be affecting the health of you and your family. Chances are the doctor is not just checking to see if you’re hiding Twinkies in the pantry, but will be reporting other findings to the local magistrates.
It all sounds like a dream, but I'd rather die.
 

mecca

Superstar
Joined
Mar 13, 2017
Messages
7,122
in any case there are two approaches as I see it.... and one is a unipolar approach which I think is like Nazi Aryanism.... incestuousness....... and then there is the mixing..... there is the multipolar approach.... if someone is concerned with a family bloodline for example.... in the past many family bloodlines of powerful people... they practiced incest... they were obsessed with a "purity" that was not of purity in the good sense..... but what is healthy is the fusion.....
Yeah I agree. A multipolar approach is really the only thing that will bring equality to humanity, eurocentrism is white supremacy/control... there should never be only one focus. I support regionalism and the uniqueness of different areas and communities. I think regionalism is important for autonomy and self government.
Cuba's government I believe is supported by the will of the people. Were it not then I don't think it would be standing. So the idea that Rojava's government and Cuba's government.... that Rojava is supported by the people... and Cuba is not.... I do not think is correct.
I was not saying that Cuba doesn't have the will of the people, I was saying that for other countries like the US to even consider socialist principles, then the people need to want that first... because we have people in the US who still think that poor people got themselves into that situation and they can just pull themselves up by their bootstraps and become rich. They can't even see that the capitalist system is against them. I guess Marx called it class consciousness.
Cuba has a revolution for its independence and..... the revolution is wonderful but as great and as important as it is in the historical process towards progress..... the revolution is not necessarily democratic..... for example, if you are George Washington.... if I was George Washington and I had to go against the British.... if I had to shut down dissent from the supporters of British imperialism.... then I would shut them down in a heartbeat..
I don't see how people can't fight counter revolutionaries without being authoritarian though... A country can fight reactionaries and maintain their movement without one person or group taking absolute power once they've succeeded. Fighting imperialism can be done under a democratic government and a democratic self government can arise from a revolution, it's the end goal of revolution and I don't think there needs to be any extra steps to that goal. Anyone can attempt a decentralized socialist government and they should be able to succeed if they work to maintain it together (and they're not blown up by a military). Any time power is not directly in the hands of the people, corruption will arise... centralized power is too easily used in a negative way. Historically, any time there is a state with absolute power, there is oppression of people who shouldn't be. It may be easier to get rid of reactionaries through the state, but I don't think that's worth it because it's just as easy to get rid of good people... Intellectuals like you said.
You talk about Rojava. Any movement based in the realities of Cuba has to be based in the soil of Cuba and Latin America. Cuba is not Rojava and Rojava is not Cuba. They are not the same and they should not be the shame. If people in Rojava wanted to follow the lessons of Che, Fidel and the Cuban Revolution.... then the way to do so would be to study the lessons of Rojava!
Rojava is just an example of democratic self government without the need for a state or ruler. A place based on these principals is far closer to true socialism than any state government. I'd say that kind of government is more preferable than an authoritarian one or a terrible representative "democracy" like the US, it's also better than a social democracy (which is really just neoliberal capitalism) like Sweden. I'd also say that it's a good goal for everyone who wants a free society... I know you think that a state is only a stepping stone but I'd rather just skip it.
 
Last edited:

Venus

Rookie
Joined
May 10, 2017
Messages
87
I take it that you don't live in Cuba, or have close family members of friends living there. Otherwise you would know that their "gusano" family member send them money on a constant basis to help them get food, basic hygiene supplies, clothes etc. with the government taking 20% of what is send.

The revolution started in 1953 and ended on 1959 with the establishment of Castro as their president. Once the people realized the new government was socialist they tried to rebel, unfortunately, they had given up all their arms to the revolution and found themselves without any means to defend themselves of the atrocities the Castro brothers and Che began against anyone that dare talk against them. Neighborhood committees where instituted that reported every movement of their neighbors, kids had mandatory classes that taught them to praise the new system and to spy on their families. Every dissident, nonconforming person was sent to jail. Freedom of speech was, and still is, non-existent. Ask the “ladies in white” and listen to their stories.

In 1980 Castro told Cubans that whoever wanted to leave could go if they were claim by someone in the States. He sent 4 or 5 “indeseados” “undesirables” and emptied the jail that were full of homosexuals, people with disabilities, dissident and criminals creating tone of the biggest exodus in History due to the amount of people that fled the country within that period of time. Have you watch Scarface? That should give you an example of those who left. My husband was a 10 y/o boy that came with that crew, together with his mother, father, brother, grandmother and uncle. Their were claimed by their aunt, who took hundreds of Cubans to the states and liberty. Talk to her, and listen to her stories. She had a small bar in Cojivo, met Ernest Hemingway who went to her place to drink and retreat from the world.

You are reading one side of the propaganda, while here in the States you get the opposite other side. Unfortunately, the truth is closer to the side you hear here than the one you listen there. The economic system we have in place now is not the best, but at least we can have this discussion without fear of being listen and going to jail.

You probably should go and live there a couple of years. You will find it’s people is great, but the system really sucks.
 

Etagloc

Superstar
Joined
Mar 26, 2017
Messages
5,291
I take it that you don't live in Cuba, or have close family members of friends living there. Otherwise you would know that their "gusano" family member send them money on a constant basis to help them get food, basic hygiene supplies, clothes etc. with the government taking 20% of what is send.

The revolution started in 1953 and ended on 1959 with the establishment of Castro as their president. Once the people realized the new government was socialist they tried to rebel, unfortunately, they had given up all their arms to the revolution and found themselves without any means to defend themselves of the atrocities the Castro brothers and Che began against anyone that dare talk against them. Neighborhood committees where instituted that reported every movement of their neighbors, kids had mandatory classes that taught them to praise the new system and to spy on their families. Every dissident, nonconforming person was sent to jail. Freedom of speech was, and still is, non-existent. Ask the “ladies in white” and listen to their stories.

In 1980 Castro told Cubans that whoever wanted to leave could go if they were claim by someone in the States. He sent 4 or 5 “indeseados” “undesirables” and emptied the jail that were full of homosexuals, people with disabilities, dissident and criminals creating tone of the biggest exodus in History due to the amount of people that fled the country within that period of time. Have you watch Scarface? That should give you an example of those who left. My husband was a 10 y/o boy that came with that crew, together with his mother, father, brother, grandmother and uncle. Their were claimed by their aunt, who took hundreds of Cubans to the states and liberty. Talk to her, and listen to her stories. She had a small bar in Cojivo, met Ernest Hemingway who went to her place to drink and retreat from the world.

You are reading one side of the propaganda, while here in the States you get the opposite other side. Unfortunately, the truth is closer to the side you hear here than the one you listen there. The economic system we have in place now is not the best, but at least we can have this discussion without fear of being listen and going to jail.

You probably should go and live there a couple of years. You will find it’s people is great, but the system really sucks.
I've talked to Cubans on both sides of the discussion. If you talk to Cubans here, of course most are going to be against Che, Fidel, Raul.

That is simply selection bias. Of course the Cubans here are going to say that. Not all of them, though. But if we went to Cuba and talked to the Cubans in Cuba.... I think they have the support of the people. What the Cubans here say.... I've talked to them and sure what they think matters.... but also what the Cubans in Cuba think. I'm for Che and Fidel. If you know a right-wing Cuban who is anti-Fidel... okay, that's cool. That's fine. That's your business. But I've talked to Cubans on both sides. I support Che and Fidel and I think most Cubans do if we count Cubans in both countries.
 

Venus

Rookie
Joined
May 10, 2017
Messages
87
I've talked to Cubans on both sides of the discussion. If you talk to Cubans here, of course most are going to be against Che, Fidel, Raul.

That is simply selection bias. Of course the Cubans here are going to say that. Not all of them, though. But if we went to Cuba and talked to the Cubans in Cuba.... I think they have the support of the people. What the Cubans here say.... I've talked to them and sure what they think matters.... but also what the Cubans in Cuba think. I'm for Che and Fidel. If you know a right-wing Cuban who is anti-Fidel... okay, that's cool. That's fine. That's your business. But I've talked to Cubans on both sides. I support Che and Fidel and I think most Cubans do if we count Cubans in both countries.
I don't believe Cubans in Cuba support the regimen. Today the system has been in place for 59 years, they are used to it and have found ways to overcome most difficult situations but still they don't really suport the Castros or Che. They can't really express their opinion out of fear to be incarcerated, a very real fear. If you discuss with the goverment you go to jail. Most living Cubans today have been born into the system and have had grind in their minds that what they have is a thousand ways better that what we have here in the States, most believe it, many don't.

When you go to the hospital and have to take your own higyne suplies, bed sheets, towels becasue there is none provided. When you are pregnant with the posibility that your child will have a disability and you are forced to have an abortion, when you have to find your food in the black market because supplies are short and the beans are rice allocated to you are gone before the next time you are allowed your next provision. When it's easiest to be a jinetera than to have a job because the job won't pay you enough and there are a huge supply of tourist that will gladly pay for Cuban flesh. When God means nothing more that a myth that westerns have and you can't gather together with the people that holds the same religious believes as you, its very hard to believe that Cuba's system is better.

I'm not only related to them by marriage, my husband was born in Cuba and brought to the States when he was 10 y/o because the government took a spceial interest on his dad who was physically disable and attended patients at his house instead of going to the hospital, that was seen as he having his own business and was complitely forbidden. My sister in law and her daughter came about 7 years ago, my oldest brother in law has never been able to come and visit his mother and his younger brother died without them being able to spend some time togeter. I visited Cuba almost 20 years ago, and while it's facinating, their people is super nice and warm, it's very sad that I could go to wonderful hotels and restaurants while the locals couldn't. They know they got the short stick, and have learn to survive with it. I prefer the corrupt government that allows me certain freedoms to a goverment that took all of them away.

Che ahd Raul were murderous criminals, they killed without discrimination, with a cold blooded hand, they both were the armed hand of Fidel and at the end Fidel had Che killed out of fear of what he had done will come to haunt him. Raul was his brother and was forgiven. What Che preached on one side he destroyed on the other.

Have you met the cubans that are arriving in the last several years? Have you noticed their lack of morals? Really, you should go and live there for a while.
 

Venus

Rookie
Joined
May 10, 2017
Messages
87
And as far as the "propaganda".... like I said, I've studied both sides. Yes I've studied what Che and Fidel had to say but I've studied the other side as well. I've studied both. The other thing is you have to understand the larger scheme of Latin American history. You act like I've never seen Scarface or heard about what you talk about. I've heard both sides.

You are free to develop your own conclusions. I have my own conclusions.

As far as what Fidel did.... I can understand Fidel not wanting to get overthrown and murdered by the CIA like Allende. History will absolve him.
I was born and raised in a Latin American country that has been at war since the Spaniards came to "conquer" us. I understand the larger scheme of Latin American history pretty well.
 

Etagloc

Superstar
Joined
Mar 26, 2017
Messages
5,291
I was born and raised in a Latin American country that has been at war since the Spaniards came to "conquer" us. I understand the larger scheme of Latin American history pretty well.
Which country?
 

Etagloc

Superstar
Joined
Mar 26, 2017
Messages
5,291
I don't believe Cubans in Cuba support the regimen. Today the system has been in place for 59 years, they are used to it and have found ways to overcome most difficult situations but still they don't really suport the Castros or Che. They can't really express their opinion out of fear to be incarcerated, a very real fear. If you discuss with the goverment you go to jail. Most living Cubans today have been born into the system and have had grind in their minds that what they have is a thousand ways better that what we have here in the States, most believe it, many don't.

When you go to the hospital and have to take your own higyne suplies, bed sheets, towels becasue there is none provided. When you are pregnant with the posibility that your child will have a disability and you are forced to have an abortion, when you have to find your food in the black market because supplies are short and the beans are rice allocated to you are gone before the next time you are allowed your next provision. When it's easiest to be a jinetera than to have a job because the job won't pay you enough and there are a huge supply of tourist that will gladly pay for Cuban flesh. When God means nothing more that a myth that westerns have and you can't gather together with the people that holds the same religious believes as you, its very hard to believe that Cuba's system is better.

I'm not only related to them by marriage, my husband was born in Cuba and brought to the States when he was 10 y/o because the government took a spceial interest on his dad who was physically disable and attended patients at his house instead of going to the hospital, that was seen as he having his own business and was complitely forbidden. My sister in law and her daughter came about 7 years ago, my oldest brother in law has never been able to come and visit his mother and his younger brother died without them being able to spend some time togeter. I visited Cuba almost 20 years ago, and while it's facinating, their people is super nice and warm, it's very sad that I could go to wonderful hotels and restaurants while the locals couldn't. They know they got the short stick, and have learn to survive with it. I prefer the corrupt government that allows me certain freedoms to a goverment that took all of them away.

Che ahd Raul were murderous criminals, they killed without discrimination, with a cold blooded hand, they both were the armed hand of Fidel and at the end Fidel had Che killed out of fear of what he had done will come to haunt him. Raul was his brother and was forgiven. What Che preached on one side he destroyed on the other.

Have you met the cubans that are arriving in the last several years? Have you noticed their lack of morals? Really, you should go and live there for a while.
So there is poverty in the socialist Latin American countries. There is poverty in the capitalist ones too. Either way, Cuba is still going to have poverty. There was poverty and all that before the revolution.
 

mecca

Superstar
Joined
Mar 13, 2017
Messages
7,122
I take it that you don't live in Cuba, or have close family members of friends living there. Otherwise you would know that their "gusano" family member send them money on a constant basis to help them get food, basic hygiene supplies, clothes etc. with the government taking 20% of what is send.

The revolution started in 1953 and ended on 1959 with the establishment of Castro as their president. Once the people realized the new government was socialist they tried to rebel, unfortunately, they had given up all their arms to the revolution and found themselves without any means to defend themselves of the atrocities the Castro brothers and Che began against anyone that dare talk against them. Neighborhood committees where instituted that reported every movement of their neighbors, kids had mandatory classes that taught them to praise the new system and to spy on their families. Every dissident, nonconforming person was sent to jail. Freedom of speech was, and still is, non-existent. Ask the “ladies in white” and listen to their stories.

In 1980 Castro told Cubans that whoever wanted to leave could go if they were claim by someone in the States. He sent 4 or 5 “indeseados” “undesirables” and emptied the jail that were full of homosexuals, people with disabilities, dissident and criminals creating tone of the biggest exodus in History due to the amount of people that fled the country within that period of time. Have you watch Scarface? That should give you an example of those who left. My husband was a 10 y/o boy that came with that crew, together with his mother, father, brother, grandmother and uncle. Their were claimed by their aunt, who took hundreds of Cubans to the states and liberty. Talk to her, and listen to her stories. She had a small bar in Cojivo, met Ernest Hemingway who went to her place to drink and retreat from the world.

You are reading one side of the propaganda, while here in the States you get the opposite other side. Unfortunately, the truth is closer to the side you hear here than the one you listen there. The economic system we have in place now is not the best, but at least we can have this discussion without fear of being listen and going to jail.

You probably should go and live there a couple of years. You will find it’s people is great, but the system really sucks.
That's what happens when the state has absolute power.
 
Top