The Coming Saviors – Moshiach, Messiah & Mahdi

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Proverbs‬ ‭3:5‬ ‭​

Trust in the LORD with all your heart And do not lean on your own understanding.​

And...​

Galatians‬ ‭3:10-14‬​
For as many as are of the works of the Law are under a curse; for it is written, “CURSED IS EVERYONE WHO DOES NOT ABIDE BY ALL THINGS WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF THE LAW, TO PERFORM THEM.” Now that no one is justified by the Law before God is evident; for, “THE RIGHTEOUS MAN SHALL LIVE BY FAITH.” However, the Law is not of faith; on the contrary, “HE WHO PRACTICES THEM SHALL LIVE BY THEM.” Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us—for it is written, “CURSED IS EVERYONE WHO HANGS ON A TREE ”— in order that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we would receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

Islam has nothing to do with Christianity...the god of islam is not the God of the Bible. Islam can try to claim it’s part of the Abrahamic faiths..but that is made up..there is no such thing as the Abrahamic faith. There is only God’s chosen people the Jews and Christians that came from Abraham. The Jews through Abraham, Issac and Jacob and the Christians when the Jews rejected Jesus. Though, @AspiringSoul you can become a Christian through believing on Jesus, all people no matter who they are, where they live, skin color, sexual identification or religion, can become Christians...but that way is through Jesus, the only begotten Son of God who took the punishment for our sins and if you believe on Him you can be saved.
And that is a much different message than what islam claims...
‭‭
Yet Paul used logic and reason to put forward his arguments.
I'm using HIS logic and reason to further my point.

Since God saw fit to give the Israelites a law after they were living under faith...then why wouldn't God do the same with gentiles?
Isn't that the natural pattern?

jesus never said there can't be another prophet of God after him. Just not a Jewish one.

GENESIS 49
The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be.

Jesus was Shiloh..and he has been. The sceptre has long departed Judah and a lawgiver has been...only one.
 






Lisa

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Yet Paul used logic and reason to put forward his arguments.
I'm using HIS logic and reason to further my point.

Since God saw fit to give the Israelites a law after they were living under faith...then why wouldn't God do the same with gentiles?
Isn't that the natural pattern?

jesus never said there can't be another prophet of God after him. Just not a Jewish one.

GENESIS 49
The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be.

Jesus was Shiloh..and he has been. The sceptre has long departed Judah and a lawgiver has been...only one.
Galatians‬ ‭3:10-14‬
For as many as are of the works of the Law are under a curse; for it is written, “CURSED IS EVERYONE WHO DOES NOT ABIDE BY ALL THINGS WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF THE LAW, TO PERFORM THEM.” Now that no one is justified by the Law before God is evident; for, “THE RIGHTEOUS MAN SHALL LIVE BY FAITH.” However, the Law is not of faith; on the contrary, “HE WHO PRACTICES THEM SHALL LIVE BY THEM.” Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us—for it is written, “CURSED IS EVERYONE WHO HANGS ON A TREE ”— in order that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we would receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

That is your answer inspiring...we live by faith..there isn’t another way and it surely isn’t living by the law..well unless you want to, but that isn’t going to save you because you can’t live the law to salvation..no one can. There was only one that did..he already did that and all one has to believe is in Jesus and you don’t have to worry about live to the law, but living by grace through faith. That is the set up inspiring and nothing else.
 






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@bible_student


you're quoting out of context


246.
Have you not considered the assembly of the Children of Israel after [the time of] Moses when they said to a prophet of theirs, "Send to us a king, and we will fight in the way of Allah "? He said, "Would you perhaps refrain from fighting if fighting was prescribed for you?" They said, "And why should we not fight in the cause of Allah when we have been driven out from our homes and from our children?" But when fighting was prescribed for them, they turned away, except for a few of them. And Allah is Knowing of the wrongdoers.
247.
And their prophet said to them, "Indeed, Allah has sent to you Saul as a king." They said, "How can he have kingship over us while we are more worthy of kingship than him and he has not been given any measure of wealth?" He said, "Indeed, Allah has chosen him over you and has increased him abundantly in knowledge and stature. And Allah gives His sovereignty to whom He wills. And Allah is all-Encompassing [in favor] and Knowing."
248.
And their prophet said to them, "Indeed, a sign of his kingship is that the chest will come to you in which is assurance from your Lord and a remnant of what the family of Moses and the family of Aaron had left, carried by the angels. Indeed in that is a sign for you, if you are believers."
249.
And when Saul went forth with the soldiers, he said, "Indeed, Allah will be testing you with a river. So whoever drinks from it is not of me, and whoever does not taste it is indeed of me, excepting one who takes [from it] in the hollow of his hand." But they drank from it, except a [very] few of them. Then when he had crossed it along with those who believed with him, they said, "There is no power for us today against Goliath and his soldiers." But those who were certain that they would meet Allah said, "How many a small company has overcome a large company by permission of Allah. And Allah is with the patient."


it has nothing to do with 'end times'.
Thank you and understood. I agree about the verse having it's meaning in it's context, as it forms part of the telling of that history (of Saul). I don't think the author meant for it to be ignored, however, it is an interesting verse, especially since it states that the Ark will be "carried by angels". Which as far as I know, has not happened (yet) so, it seems likely that this could also be a case of the verse having multiple "layers" to it. I don't know if you believe in that, but there are instances like this in the Bible as well, where prophecy has not only one meaning, but layers of meaning.
Sura 2:248, as far as I know, is also the only verse in the Koran that mentions the Ark of The Covenant, which also makes it an interesting verse. The Ark was not seen to be "carried by angels" in Saul's day (afaik) so (and this is just my opinion from looking at thsi verse/ayat) one may ask - is it also a "layered" revelation, that may also be referring to the future? (as well as referring to the past - in the context of Saul). I don't know the answer to this, but find it is certainly an interesting ayat/verse to consider also in that sense (for a believer including in end times).
And indeed, Jesus will be [a sign for] knowledge of the Hour, so be not in doubt of it, and follow Me. This is a straight path.
Wainnahu laAAilmun lilssaAAati fala tamtarunna biha waittabiAAooni hatha siratun mustaqeemun


it doesn't say 'Mahdi'

Also, the hadith doesn't say '12 imams' it says '12 caliphs from Quraysh'.
I believe this connects with the promise God made to Abraham and Hagar concerning Ismael.
"make him a great nation and raise 12 princes from him".
this obv is a post-islam fulfillment.
Thank you. I was looking further for what Mahdi means and saw this (urban dictionary, so presumably, various people giving their opinion/understanding - nr.5):

"In Arabic Mahdi, literally means, 'one rightly guided', and is often interpreted as 'the guided one'.

In Islam, Imam Mahdi is an ordinary man who will one day seek balance and stability in his daily life by simply following the teachings of the Qur'an. He will interpret the Holy Book like no one ever had before, and reach a perfect level of certainty (full knowledge). His full understanding on the true and righteous meanings of Islam will lead him to guide the world into a period of fairness and justice on earth. He will be followed by Jesus (in the Qur'an mentioned as Isa), and; together they will lead the minds towards the Day of Judgement (mentioned as Qiyamat in the Qur'an) and raise the world into heaven."
https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Mahdi

"One rightly guided" or the "guided one" is a description of who else, but Christ/Issa?

("He will interpret the Holy Book like no one ever had before and reach a perfect level of certainty (full knowledge)"
That is exactly what the Koran in the King of kings' Bible By JAH Muad'Dib is because it's the first time ever that the Koran has been studied and interpreted by anyone as being in perfect harmony with the previous scripture known as the "king James 1611 Bible" and then made available for any and all to read)

So according to the tradition, Mahdi and Messiah are two different people, but what the article is saying is that this is not a correct belief and that they in fact have to be the same person.
 






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Yes because I follow wikipedia as my source of faith lol.
No offense, but this is a big issue and it's not just about you and what you believe. If you don't believe that then ok, maybe it's good for you, but I showed you with an easy google search that it IS a widely held belief among people who identify as muslim, that the Mahdi is the/a Messiah.
You keep quoting the verses wrong. 43:61 does NOT mention Mahdi at all, it says Jesus a.s. AspiringSoul already answered you well enough but quoting verses wrong is not going to work in anyone's favor.
It does in the newly published King of kings' Bible/Koran, which is as it should be, because if you look at what Mahdi means, it means Savior/Deliverer, which is the same as Jesus/Issa. Jesus means "Savior", which is therefore the same as "Mahdi".
The entire reason some scholars don't believe in the existence of Mahdi is because he isn't mentioned in the Quran, his only existence comes from the Hadiths. Either way he is a completely different person from the Prophet Jesus a.s.
That then has to be where their confusion comes from, because they are trying to interpret things according to the Hadiths, instead of just using Scripture (as the Quran says to do). Logically though, when one follows the Scripture alone then the Mahdi (i.e. Savior/Deliver) that people are looking for, cannot be a different person as the Hadiths say, because it is Jesus/Issa (Savior). So, if I'm understanding correctly then it means you (and others) may already be half way there, because you say you are awaiting only Jesus the Messiah. However, what the scholars need to realise is that all their doubts come from believing and allowing the Hadiths to influence (confuse) them about the meaning of the Quran and that they need to turn back to studying only the Quran and do what it tells them to do. And again, as was shown, it is widely believed by many people who identify as muslim (the majority) that the Madhi is the/a Messiah, when there is only ONE Messiah - Issa. So, Mahdi therefore has to be Issa and they are one and the same. The Hadiths are not needed to understand the Quran and they actually cause people to not be able to understand it correctly. That is why the King of kings' Bible/Koran needs to be studied because it's interpretation of the Quran is not biased by Hadiths, so they all NEED to read it.

P.S. An extract from the True Koran (the interpretation of which is not biased by the Hadiths) which has been correctly translated and interpreted by Muad'Dib:
http://jahtruth.net/koex1.htm
 






Last edited:
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Galatians‬ ‭3:10-14‬​

For as many as are of the works of the Law are under a curse; for it is written, “CURSED IS EVERYONE WHO DOES NOT ABIDE BY ALL THINGS WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF THE LAW, TO PERFORM THEM.” Now that no one is justified by the Law before God is evident; for, “THE RIGHTEOUS MAN SHALL LIVE BY FAITH.” However, the Law is not of faith; on the contrary, “HE WHO PRACTICES THEM SHALL LIVE BY THEM.” Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us—for it is written, “CURSED IS EVERYONE WHO HANGS ON A TREE ”— in order that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we would receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

That is your answer inspiring...we live by faith..there isn’t another way and it surely isn’t living by the law..well unless you want to, but that isn’t going to save you because you can’t live the law to salvation..no one can. There was only one that did..he already did that and all one has to believe is in Jesus and you don’t have to worry about live to the law, but living by grace through faith. That is the set up inspiring and nothing else.
The patriarchs (the Israelites) also lived by faith until Moses came with the LAW. That's my point, if God saw fit to send the Israelites the Law after they were previously under faith/grace....then there's no reason why God wouldn't do the same to gentiles.

Shiloh came,the sceptre departed Judah..and the lawbringer came
 






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Christianity has nothing to do with islam @bible_student
Actually @Lisa , the truth is that both Christianity and Islam have nothing whatsoever to do with the Bible and the Koran.

Since both of them are organized religions (dividing up into denominations and sects) they are thereby diametrically opposed to the teaching of the very Books that they claim to be based upon - the Holy Bible and Holy Koran.

A mind blowing statement to make? Maybe it will be perceived that way by some people, if you have never heard it said, but if so, then they seriously need to think about it until they can see the truth - that it is correct to say it.

I realised that it is actually a completely truthful (and provable) statement to make from reading the Bible and the Koran.
 






Last edited:

JoChris

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Actually @Lisa , the truth is that both Christianity and Islam have nothing whatsoever to do with the Bible and the Koran.

Since both of them are organized religions (dividing up into denominations and sects) they are thereby diametrically opposed to the teaching of the very Books that they claim to be based upon - the Holy Bible and Holy Koran.

A mind blowing statement to make? Maybe it will be perceived that way by some people, if you have never heard it said, but if so, then they seriously need to think about it until they can see the truth - that it is correct to say it.

I realised that it is actually a completely truthful (and provable) statement to make from reading the Bible and the Koran.
The claim that Christianity is not built on the bible is a ridiculous one. Same for Islam not being built on the Quran.
Anyone not brainwashed by John Anthony Hill knows that.

You still have not shown where John Anthony Hill got his pseudo-translations from.
If there were actual scripts, where is the ***physical*** evidence for them?

There are plenty of religious cults/ seance transcripts who recorded messages received or alleged visions from the leader/ medium.
E.g. Joseph Smith, founder of the Latter Day Church (or Mormonism). https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Vision

He came up with his own religious texts and bible interpretations as well. Has John Anthony Hill also been visited by an angel like Muhammad and Joseph Smith?

Where did John Anthony Hill get the revelation that he was really Jesus?
 






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The claim that Christianity is not built on the bible is a ridiculous one.
1 Corinthians 1:10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Christ Jesus, that ye all speak the SAME thing, and [that] there be NO DIVISIONS among you; but [that] ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.
Same for Islam not being built on the Quran.
Sura 6:159. As for those who divide their religion and break up into sects, thou must have nothing whatsoever to do with it, even in the least: their affair is with "I AM": in the end He will tell them the truth of all that they did.
Anyone not brainwashed by John Anthony Hill knows that.
Anyone who reads the Bible and the Koran for themselves will at some point be reading both those verses I just quoted (as well as Revelation 2:20-23).
You still have not shown where John Anthony Hill got his pseudo-translations from.
I'm not sure what you mean. B.t.w. asking loaded questions like this one is an evil thing to be doing and an evil loaded question like this one does not deserve to be answered.

But even though this does not deserve an answer because it is an evil loaded question, here is the information, one more time:

The King of kings’ Bible.
“Seek and ye shall find. Ask and ye shall be given . . .”
The culmination of nearly 60 years of preparation, The King of kings’ Bible provides a unique
interpretation of the Books of The Old Covenant, The New Covenant and The Koran; and includes
important Books and parts of Books that were previously removed by various churches and religious
organizations. All three Books are fully cross-referenced so that, for the first time, readers will
understand the relationships and complete harmony between them.
The Book of God’s first Prophet, Enoch (Idris), through whom God prophesied that His
Revelations would be tampered with - and some of the Revelations removed and ignored - has been
correctly translated and reinstated.
Chapter 34 of the Book of Ezekiel is presented in its correct interpretation. Mis-translations
of Christ’s teaching in Matthew Ch. 6 and Ch. 23 have been corrected so that Matthew now
rightfully contains the fulfillment of Ezekiel Ch. 34.
Accurate translation has resulted in the word “community” being used instead of “church”,
and “holy people” instead of “saints”.
The whole of the Gospel according to Thomas has been reinstated, as has the last chapter of
The Book of Acts. The missing section of the Revelation to John, which was previously removed
from the Bible, has been restored.
In the Holy Koran, Sura 2:125 and 2:127, Ishmael is now correctly identified as Isaac, which
now identifies Mt. Moriah in Jerusalem as the Holy Place and Jerusalem as the Holy City. The Koran
is, for the first time, fully cross-referenced to The Old Covenant and The New Covenant.
There are also many other areas of these important Books where historical interference has
been corrected - too numerous to list here. You will read many Books and verses that the various and
ancient “vested interests” have deliberately hidden from you over the years.
The King of kings’ Bible is dedicated to world peace and understanding. It is a new Bible for
a new millennium and new beginning.
Peace be Upon You,
JAH Publications.
http://jahtruth.net/kofkad.htm

P.S. In future, do not ask me any more loaded questions, unless you want me to not answer you any more.

If there were actual scripts, where is the ***physical*** evidence for them?
What, would you read and believe them if shown to you? As if and how would that make any difference? You have a link to the complete King of kings' Bible. It's available free on the Internet. All you need if you truly want to be able to study it. So what is your excuse?
There are plenty of religious cults/ seance transcripts who recorded messages received or alleged visions from the leader/ medium.
E.g. Joseph Smith, founder of the Latter Day Church (or Mormonism). https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Vision
Yes and not a single one of them stayed with the original Message that everyone has been given and now have access to because it is all written in the Bible as it always was and it has remained consistent and unchanging from the Beginning. Not one of them stuck with the original message given in the Bible which is that we have to keep God's Laws like He told us from the Beginning. Instead, they all divert people away from the simple truth into following other ways, which are not any way really, and that is how you can quite easily spot them. If they are not championing God's Laws that are written in the Bible and telling people to return to keeping only God's Laws, then they are not working for God. It's that plain and simple. God's Law is the litmus test. So, if anyone says to you that they bring or have a message from God then you can ask them that question (or read) to see if they are championing God's Laws and keeping them. Because that is still the Message today as it has always been and it has not changed from the Beginning. It says it over and over and over again throughout the Bible, that we must keep only God's Laws and keep The Commandments if we want to live. That is what God told Moses. That is what Jesus told everyone. So instead of asking the same questions over and over you could really just read the book and see what it says like others do and then you can see for yourself.
He came up with his own religious texts and bible interpretations as well. Has John Anthony Hill also been visited by an angel like Muhammad and Joseph Smith?
Where did John Anthony Hill get the revelation that he was really Jesus?
As above.
 






Last edited:

JoChris

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Messages
4,028
1 Corinthians 1:10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Christ Jesus, that ye all speak the SAME thing, and [that] there be NO DIVISIONS among you; but [that] ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

Sura 6:159. As for those who divide their religion and break up into sects, thou must have nothing whatsoever to do with it, even in the least: their affair is with "I AM": in the end He will tell them the truth of all that they did.

Anyone who reads the Bible and the Koran for themselves will at some point be reading both those verses I just quoted (as well as Revelation 2:20-23).

I'm not sure what you mean. B.t.w. asking loaded questions like this one is an evil thing to be doing and an evil loaded question like this one does not deserve to be answered.

But even though this does not deserve an answer because it is an evil loaded question, here is the information, one more time:

The King of kings’ Bible.
“Seek and ye shall find. Ask and ye shall be given . . .”
The culmination of nearly 60 years of preparation, The King of kings’ Bible provides a unique
interpretation of the Books of The Old Covenant, The New Covenant and The Koran; and includes
important Books and parts of Books that were previously removed by various churches and religious
organizations. All three Books are fully cross-referenced so that, for the first time, readers will
understand the relationships and complete harmony between them.
The Book of God’s first Prophet, Enoch (Idris), through whom God prophesied that His
Revelations would be tampered with - and some of the Revelations removed and ignored - has been
correctly translated and reinstated.
Chapter 34 of the Book of Ezekiel is presented in its correct interpretation. Mis-translations
of Christ’s teaching in Matthew Ch. 6 and Ch. 23 have been corrected so that Matthew now
rightfully contains the fulfillment of Ezekiel Ch. 34.
Accurate translation has resulted in the word “community” being used instead of “church”,
and “holy people” instead of “saints”.
The whole of the Gospel according to Thomas has been reinstated, as has the last chapter of
The Book of Acts. The missing section of the Revelation to John, which was previously removed
from the Bible, has been restored.
In the Holy Koran, Sura 2:125 and 2:127, Ishmael is now correctly identified as Isaac, which
now identifies Mt. Moriah in Jerusalem as the Holy Place and Jerusalem as the Holy City. The Koran
is, for the first time, fully cross-referenced to The Old Covenant and The New Covenant.
There are also many other areas of these important Books where historical interference has
been corrected - too numerous to list here. You will read many Books and verses that the various and
ancient “vested interests” have deliberately hidden from you over the years.
The King of kings’ Bible is dedicated to world peace and understanding. It is a new Bible for
a new millennium and new beginning.
Peace be Upon You,
JAH Publications.
http://jahtruth.net/kofkad.htm

P.S. In future, do not ask me any more loaded questions, unless you want me to not answer you any more.


What, would you read and believe them if shown to you? As if and how would that make any difference? You have a link to the complete King of kings' Bible. It's available free on the Internet. All you need if you truly want to be able to study it. So what is your excuse?

Yes and not a single one of them stayed with the original Message that everyone has been given and now have access to because it is all written in the Bible as it always was and it has remained consistent and unchanging from the Beginning. Not one of them stuck with the original message given in the Bible which is that we have to keep God's Laws like He told us from the Beginning. Instead, they all divert people away from the simple truth into following other ways, which are not any way really, and that is how you can quite easily spot them. If they are not championing God's Laws that are written in the Bible and telling people to return to keeping only God's Laws, then they are not working for God. It's that plain and simple. God's Law is the litmus test. So, if anyone says to you that they bring or have a message from God then you can ask them that question (or read) to see if they are championing God's Laws and keeping them. Because that is still the Message today as it has always been and it has not changed from the Beginning. It says it over and over and over again throughout the Bible, that we must keep only God's Laws and keep The Commandments if we want to live. That is what God told Moses. That is what Jesus told everyone. So instead of asking the same questions over and over you could really just read the book and see what it says like others do and then you can see for yourself.

As above.
So John Anthony Hill got the religious texts from his own imagination/ channneling from seducing spirits, and still you will believe him, not the New Testament by written actual witnesses of Jesus, God made Flesh.

Demons will pretend to be moral, even holy if that is what it will take to lead people away from the true Jesus.
They are SEDUCING spirits. They will not use immorality to tempt people with high moral standards.
They will use the particular bait that lures a particular fish.

See slave girl's behaviour. https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts+16:16-18&version=KJV
The evil spirit on the surface was telling the truth, but with evil motives. https://readingacts.com/2019/03/12/acts-1616-18-the-spirit-of-python/

RE your ending sentence:
So be it. I will stop responding to you. I have done my best to warn other readers.

If other people fall for JAHtruth's deception through your efforts, their blood will be on your hands not mine.
If other people come to foolishly believe John Anthony Hill is Jesus - then they prove are not the true God's sheep.

Disciple of John Anthony Hill:
Unless you repent and believe the true Gospel you are going to remain accursed. https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Galatians+1:8-9&version=KJV

Over and out.
 






manama

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Mar 15, 2017
Messages
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It does in the newly published King of kings' Bible/Koran, which is as it should be, because if you look at what Mahdi means, it means Savior/Deliverer, which is the same as Jesus/Issa. Jesus means "Savior", which is therefore the same as "Mahdi".
No. Isa is the name of the Prophet. God in that verse clearly refers to him as Isa, he is and will always be Isa, The son of Mary and the Messiah. Mahdi and him are NOT the same people.
Also the verse does not use the word Mahdi and its not talking about Mahdi. Saying that it is otherwise is nothing more than completely wrong.

No offense, but this is a big issue and it's not just about you and what you believe. If you don't believe that then ok, maybe it's good for you, but I showed you with an easy google search that it IS a widely held belief among people who identify as muslim, that the Mahdi is the/a Messiah.
That is a concept believed by just ONE sect which also considers Mahdi to be centuries old. Yeah doesn't really work. Mahdi is someone who will prepare the world for the coming of Jesus a.s. and will also be the person to protect the people from the Anti-Christ until the return of the true Christ. People who believe in Mahdi to be Messiah still believe him and Jesus to be two different people because they are.
 






friend

Veteran
Joined
Jul 26, 2017
Messages
618
First of all, no claim like that has been made and I'm certainly not trying to gaslight anyone. As my screen name should hopefully indicate, I'm a student as well and am also in the process of studying the article posted above. I don't know what you mean about google searches, can you explain what you meant, please?

I know you didn't use the word, but what you said - the stated belief about what it means - comes from the tradition (hadith) does it not? The verse is actually quoted as well. As you may know, the various translations into English for the Koran vary quite a lot in their interpretation. I study the Koran as presented in the new King of kings' Bible Edition which is basically the Abdullah Yusuf Ali Koran more correctly interpreted (i.e. not biased by hadiths, unlike the others) and harmonised with the king James Bible. What you said I believe is based on the traditional teaching which comes from hadiths and not from the Quran.

You also said:

"Mahdi and Jesus the son of Mary are two completely different people. Jesus a.s. is our Messiah, Mahdi is NOT. Whether Mahdi will come or not can be debated but he and Jesus a.s. will never be the same person."

And that is why I then made a reference to the Hadith, because as far as my understanding, that view comes from hadiths.

I'm glad you say that you know most aren't true. We go a step further than that though and don't use them at all.

The article (about the Hadith) has been up for years and no one has ever been able to debunk it.

So, just to hopefully make clear what is being said, if you read what the article (posted in this thread) is saying-

"Muslims rely on Hadith traditions, which are man’s interpretations – belief systems passed down from one generation to the next.

These traditions say that Christ will come before The Mahdi and that Christ will help The Mahdi defeat Evil. Although the Koran doesn’t teach that a series of 12 Imams will come, with the 12th being The Mahdi, many Muslims hold this traditional belief as truth.

The term Mahdi is used only once in the Koran (Sura 43:61):

Sura 43:61 And (Christ the Mahdi) shall be a Sign (for the coming of) the Hour (of Judgment): therefore have no doubt about the (Hour), but follow ye Me: this is The Straight Way."

Just to say this again. No one is trying to gaslight you or anyone here by sharing this article. It was shared because of having found the quality of the discussion on this forum to be refreshing and so that is the reason why it was shared, and so also with others postings, and it is not to "gaslight" you or anyone. We have all been taught things that we sooner or later find out were not true, because the world is a mess due to all the lies people have been taught. The objective is to encourage people to study because the truth has to be uncovered so we can all (who want to) learn it instead. I can certainly understand if you have felt that what it (and other discussions) says have challenged your beliefs, since that surely is not what you grew up with, but it is the same for me and others too and that is not gaslighting and I'm certainly not here to try to do that to you or anyone else.

So, I hope you will have another look at the article, and perhaps you may come to see and consider all of this in a new light, and just think about what it is saying and asking? May Peace be upon you.



Thank you and understood. So both you and @friend are saying the same, but look at what people find when they search online for the meaning of the Mahdi:

Mahdi

Also found in: Thesaurus, Encyclopedia, Wikipedia.Mah·di
(mä′dē)n. pl. Mah·dis Islam1.
a.
The messiah prophesied to appear at the world's end and establish a reign ofpeace and righteousness.

b. In Twelver Shia belief, the 12th imam, who is expected to emerge fromoccultation to fulfill this role.

2. A person who claims to be or is seen as the messiah.

https://www.thefreedictionary.com/Mahdi

So as you can see, it says Mahdi is not a different leader, but says that the Mahdi is the messiah?
looks like this JAH guy is quite un-informed about islam, Quran and Hadith.

for 1400 years all muslim scholars and followers of islam said and are still saying and believing that Mahdi is NOT messiah, yet a person who is not muslim, does not understand Arabic and still gives himself the right to interprete a book (Quran) written in Arabic.
and even dares to question Hadith while he cannot read Hadith. wow.

Messiah is Jesus son of Mary, a prophet of God with signs, miracles and revelation known as Injeel and he will return at the end-times.
Mahdi is an ordinary man going to rule with justice in the (unknown) future.
 






Lisa

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The patriarchs (the Israelites) also lived by faith until Moses came with the LAW. That's my point, if God saw fit to send the Israelites the Law after they were previously under faith/grace....then there's no reason why God wouldn't do the same to gentiles.

Shiloh came,the sceptre departed Judah..and the came
The point is..that He didn’t do it like that. He made it so we are saved by grace through faith. Stop thinking that He needed to do it a certain way that lines up with how you think and accept the way He did do it.
 






Lisa

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A mind blowing statement to make?
You are correct in saying that islam has nothing to do with the Bible...but Christianity has everything to do with it. God made it that way with the NT when the Jews rejected Jesus, the gentiles were then grafted into the olive tree. But I kinda think they were always gonna get grafted in when Jesus tells us God so loved the world..
 






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You are correct in saying that islam has nothing to do with the Bible...but Christianity has everything to do with it. God made it that way with the NT when the Jews rejected Jesus, the gentiles were then grafted into the olive tree. But I kinda think they were always gonna get grafted in when Jesus tells us God so loved the world..
Most of the Koran is talking about the Bible and it tells people to read it (read the Bible) and not to doubt it and also to invite others to join together with them in keeping The Covenant.

[God/Allah ("I AM") says in The Koran, "Fulfill The Covenant -The New Song"]
 






Lisa

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Most of the Koran is talking about the Bible and it tells people to read it (read the Bible) and not to doubt it and also to invite others to join together with them in keeping The Covenant.

[God/Allah ("I AM") says in The Koran, "Fulfill The Covenant -The New Song"]
Lol...allah is not I Am. The God of the Bible is I Am. That’s strange that the quran talks about the Bible and tells people to read it when they get it all wrong by saying that everyone in the Bible are muslims which they aren’t. And if they really believed everything in the Bible then they would know that God has a begotten Son but they deny that too.
 






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No. Isa is the name of the Prophet. God in that verse clearly refers to him as Isa, he is and will always be Isa, The son of Mary and the Messiah. Mahdi and him are NOT the same people.
Also the verse does not use the word Mahdi and its not talking about Mahdi. Saying that it is otherwise is nothing more than completely wrong.


That is a concept believed by just ONE sect which also considers Mahdi to be centuries old. Yeah doesn't really work. Mahdi is someone who will prepare the world for the coming of Jesus a.s. and will also be the person to protect the people from the Anti-Christ until the return of the true Christ. People who believe in Mahdi to be Messiah still believe him and Jesus to be two different people because they are.
looks like this JAH guy is quite un-informed about islam, Quran and Hadith.

for 1400 years all muslim scholars and followers of islam said and are still saying and believing that Mahdi is NOT messiah, yet a person who is not muslim, does not understand Arabic and still gives himself the right to interprete a book (Quran) written in Arabic.
and even dares to question Hadith while he cannot read Hadith. wow.

Messiah is Jesus son of Mary, a prophet of God with signs, miracles and revelation known as Injeel and he will return at the end-times.
Mahdi is an ordinary man going to rule with justice in the (unknown) future.
The article does say that you guys may not believe that Christ is the Madhi until you see the Ark of the Covenant revealed.
 






friend

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Hadith is not scripture though.
no Prophet says anything from himself but whatever they utter, which has religious effect, is from God.

the fabricated Hadith were identified by the scholars very easily through the knowledge of Jarh and Tadeel.
 






friend

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Most of the Koran is talking about the Bible and it tells people to read it (read the Bible) and not to doubt it and also to invite others to join together with them in keeping The Covenant.

[God/Allah ("I AM") says in The Koran, "Fulfill The Covenant -The New Song"]
Quran tells believers to not doubt about the Injeel (the scripture given to Jesus pbuh) being sent by God to Jesus but Quran also points out that the current scripture(s) is not the original single scripture revealed to prophet Jesus (pbuh) and tells us that it was altered by men. that is why there are 66 often contradicting versions or more.
 






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