The Coming Saviors – Moshiach, Messiah & Mahdi

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#1
Insightful article -

The Coming Saviors – Moshiach, Messiah & Mahdi



The Jews are awaiting The Moshiach; the Christians are awaiting The Messiah; the Muslims are awaiting The Mahdi; but, what if they are all awaiting the same person?

Certain religious sects are hastening the Coming Savior as if they are chosen ones; yet, can they be certain The Judgment falls in their favor?

All religions have their sects. Christianity has its Catholics, Protestants, Mormons and so on. Islam has its Sunni, Shiite, Sufis and radicals. Judaism has its Orthodox, Kabbalah, and Chabad Organization. Even Satanism is split.

Despite the divisions, there is one universal truth they seem to gloss over – “A House Divided Shall Not Stand”, which actually comes from The New Testament (Matt. 12:25). This teaching remains ever true, as evil powers use it as war strategy – Divide and Conquer.

So here we are, all of us, bound in a world where common-sense is lost, just as Esdras wrote, “then shall common-sense hide itself, and understanding withdraw itself into his secret chamber” (2 Esdras 5:9); and just as Enoch wrote about Wisdom finding no place to dwell with Earthly men, but Iniquity found a place everywhere to dwell with them (Enoch 42:1-2).

Westerners are told to accept Islam, yet Islamic terrorism is perpetrated on the world. We are told to stop criticizing Jews, yet Zionism holds the world captive. We are told to have religious tolerance, yet are to remove Christian expression. This Hegelian dialectic is designed to confuse the masses; and is a form of mass mind-control. In fact, the continued war OF terrorism is designed to keep the world in a “state of disassociation” just to cope with it, in much the same way sexual torture is used to program and control a Monarch slave.

Not one man, nor one group, has been able to defeat or even stop this Evil.

Is it any wonder that many call upon their Savior?



https://hannahmichaels.wordpress.com/2019/06/29/the-coming-saviors-moshiach-messiah-mahdi/

What if?
 





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#2
Insightful article -

The Coming Saviors – Moshiach, Messiah & Mahdi



The Jews are awaiting The Moshiach; the Christians are awaiting The Messiah; the Muslims are awaiting The Mahdi; but, what if they are all awaiting the same person?

Certain religious sects are hastening the Coming Savior as if they are chosen ones; yet, can they be certain The Judgment falls in their favor?

All religions have their sects. Christianity has its Catholics, Protestants, Mormons and so on. Islam has its Sunni, Shiite, Sufis and radicals. Judaism has its Orthodox, Kabbalah, and Chabad Organization. Even Satanism is split.

Despite the divisions, there is one universal truth they seem to gloss over – “A House Divided Shall Not Stand”, which actually comes from The New Testament (Matt. 12:25). This teaching remains ever true, as evil powers use it as war strategy – Divide and Conquer.

So here we are, all of us, bound in a world where common-sense is lost, just as Esdras wrote, “then shall common-sense hide itself, and understanding withdraw itself into his secret chamber” (2 Esdras 5:9); and just as Enoch wrote about Wisdom finding no place to dwell with Earthly men, but Iniquity found a place everywhere to dwell with them (Enoch 42:1-2).

Westerners are told to accept Islam, yet Islamic terrorism is perpetrated on the world. We are told to stop criticizing Jews, yet Zionism holds the world captive. We are told to have religious tolerance, yet are to remove Christian expression. This Hegelian dialectic is designed to confuse the masses; and is a form of mass mind-control. In fact, the continued war OF terrorism is designed to keep the world in a “state of disassociation” just to cope with it, in much the same way sexual torture is used to program and control a Monarch slave.

Not one man, nor one group, has been able to defeat or even stop this Evil.

Is it any wonder that many call upon their Savior?



https://hannahmichaels.wordpress.com/2019/06/29/the-coming-saviors-moshiach-messiah-mahdi/

What if?
Lets first make something clear :
all Muslims are waiting for Jesus son of Mary the Messiah.
Mahdi is someone else. he is not the messiah he is just a ruler. and there are few scholars who dont accept the Mahdi.
 





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#3
Universal truth for Christians, Jesus is the only way. Confess him as your lord and saviour get baptized, receive holy spirit. And fight spiritual battle rest of your days. That's it..nothing extra.Certainly no extra dudes from other faiths involved in the process Mt 22:25 is almost ironic in your context.
 





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#4
It's quite a lengthy article, dealing with each belief. The first one discussed in it is The Mahdi. -

The Muslims and Their Mahdi

Western oppression in the Middle East has caused Muslims to hate The West, so much so that many have been manipulated into doing the exact opposite of what the Koran teaches in the hopes that The Mahdi will come and save them. They ignore the possibility that they are being punished for relying on Hadiths, which are man-made written edicts, or traditions, passed down from their elders, instead of relying on the Koran, which God gave Muhammad through Gabriel. Despite instruction from God not to divide into sects, almost immediately upon Muhammad’s death, they did. The Koran wasn’t completed until approximately 20 years after his passing, thus Meccans had a chance to alter it slightly, replacing Isaac with Ishmael and the Holy of Holies on Mount Moriah with Mecca. These lies were disclosed 20 years ago by JAH on his “The Truth about The Koran” webpages.

Muslims rely on Hadith traditions, which are man’s interpretations – belief systems passed down from one generation to the next.

These traditions say that Christ will come before The Mahdi and that Christ will help The Mahdi defeat Evil. Although the Koran doesn’t teach that a series of 12 Imams will come, with the 12th being The Mahdi, many Muslims hold this traditional belief as truth.

The term Mahdi is used only once in the Koran (Sura 43:61):

Sura 43:61 And (Christ the Mahdi) shall be a Sign (for the coming of) the Hour (of Judgment): therefore have no doubt about the (Hour), but follow ye Me: this is The Straight Way.

It doesn’t read Christ will appear before The Mahdi, it reads as a TITLE – “Christ The Mahdi” appears before The Judgment.

Does that sound familiar? The term “Mahdi” means “Savior/Deliverer” in Arabic just as “Jesus” does in Greek.

Muslims, Christians and Jews who believe the Hadith tradition is the same as The Koran are ignorant. Yes, that is the appropriate word. Ignorant means unaware, uninformed, and unenlightened. Ignorance is a great way to control the masses, because it keeps people in the dark. It happened in Catholicism: reading The Bible was once a crime punishable by death. And like priests who interpreted The Bible, imams interpret The Koran. Mix those with oral traditions and “other” written material passed down for years and the Truth gets diluted and altered. Unfortunately, a lie repeated often and long enough becomes wrongly accepted as the truth. Then it is only a matter of time before the blind lead the blind.


In the Koran, Muslims are continually instructed to follow The Straight Way. It’s not a wide path, which leads to destruction. It is a narrow path. The Way of “I AM” is righteous and just. As Jesus, Christ taught that He was The Way, as The Example of The Way of God. And imam is the Arabic word for “example”.

God said Abraham was an example to follow (Sura 60:4). He also said Jesus was an Example to the Children of Israel (Sura 43:57-59).

Sura 43:63 When Jesus came with Clear Signs, he said: “Now have I come to you with Wisdom, and in order to make clear to you some of the (points) on which ye dispute: therefore fear “I AM” and obey me.
Sura 43:64 “For “I AM”, He is my Lord and your Lord: so worship ye Him (Matt. 5:48): this is The Straight Way.”

According to God in The Koran, The Torah was given to make things clear and to be a guide to The Straight Way (Koran 37:117-118); which Christ The Mahdi said in Sura 43:61, “Follow ye Me, this is The Straight Way.”

The Torah was to be honored and followed by The Muslims, instructing them to fulfill The Covenant (Sura 5:8); and that Covenant is found in The Bible. In the New Testament, Jesus said He came to fully fulfill, preach, The Law – and that Law was the Mosaic Law found in The Torah (Matt. 5:17-19).

Koran Sura 43 not only clarifies that Christ is The Madhi who comes before Judgment; it also clarifies that Jesus was the Jewish Moshiach. This clarity isn’t going to sit well with Muslims and Jews bound by their traditions, but rejection of the Truth doesn’t make it untrue; and we all know how mankind likes to rewrite history for hidden agendas. The Truth does not become a lie, just because no-one believes it; and a lie does not become the truth, even if everyone believes it.

Muslims who are radicalized may want to study what The Koran says about mischief and following men who led them astray, which are men within their own tribes. It is God who decides The Last Day, not Islamic terrorism. He made it clear in the Koran that He has NO partners, and He certainly doesn’t need partners committing crimes. All efforts, based on well-contrived lies, will lead those involved to Hell-Fire (Sura 18:51-52).

Evil may plot and plan, but God is the Best of Planners (Sura 8:30).


Muslims may not believe Christ is The Mahdi until The Ark of The Covenant is revealed:

Sura 2:248 And (further) their Prophet said to them: “A Sign of his authority is that there shall come to you The Ark of The Covenant, with (an assurance) therein of security from your Lord, and the relics left by the family of Moses and the family of Aaron, carried by angels. In this is a Symbol for you if ye indeed have faith.”
 





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#5
Lets first make something clear :
all Muslims are waiting for Jesus son of Mary the Messiah.
Mahdi is someone else. he is not the messiah he is just a ruler. and there are few scholars who dont accept the Mahdi.
According to the Koran, when studied by itself, the Mahdi and Messiah/Christ have to be one and the same, because the term Mahdi is used only once in the Koran (Sura 43:61). This is true despite the widely held tradition that is saying something different. If one really looks at what the Koran says by itself (Sura 6:38) then it has to be the case.
 





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#7
The Jews and Their Moshiach

Rejecting Jesus as their Moshiach, Jews continue to wait on His first arrival. And like Muslims, some Jews are impatient for their Savior’s arrival, so much so that they too orchestrate events to bring about the final war.

Despite Scripture telling us that patience is a virtue, a popular song in Jewish culture sums up a growing sentiment of many Jews, who “don’t want to wait” as sung in “We want Moshiach Now”.

Ecc. 7:8 Better [is] the end of a thing than the beginning thereof: [and] the patient in spirit [is] better than the proud in spirit.

To highlight one Jewish sect, members of the Chabad Organization believe it is their duty to hasten the arrival of Moshiach, so that they can receive the promised blessings sooner than later.

Hebrews 10:36 For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the Will of God, ye might receive the promise.

The Chabad Organization wields a great deal of worldly power. They meet with and advise world leaders including the U.S. Presidents. Jared Kusher, Trump’s son-in-law and senior advisor, attends a Chabad Synagogue in Washington DC.

Even in 1984, Benjamin Netanyahu was told by the Chabad Lubavitch Menachem M. Schneerson to do everything in his power to hasten Moshiach’s arrival.

Benjamin Netanyahu Told to Hasten Jewish Moshiach’s Coming:

Would Netanyahu’s actions to cause WW3 in the Holy Land be part of this duty, or call to action? After all, like Islam, the Jewish religion also teaches of a Holy War. This Holy War is further described for Christians in the New Testament Book of Revelation.

But are Jews doing man’s will or God’s? Proverbs might provide some insight into this answer.

Proverbs 6:16 These six [things] doth the “I AM” hate: yea, seven [are] an abomination unto him:
Proverbs 6:17 A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,
Proverbs 6:18 An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief,
Proverbs 6:19 A false witness [that] speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.

Thus, if any of their actions fall into these seven abominations, they aren’t doing God’s Will. Please consider that these above verses describe False Flag events with acute accuracy. Also falling into this category are atrocities perpetrated on “their own” to usher in social controls of any criticism, constructive or not. Do they think The Lord is blind?

Why did the Jewish religion reject Jesus as Moshiach, when most of the Old Testament foreshadowed and exactly prophesied His arrival and crucifixion? From the story of Jonah to the sacrificial Lamb – to his suffering described in the Psalms – it’s all in Scripture.

Even Herod believed the Prophets when told by his elder advisors that The Moshiach was due. Trying to circumvent fulfillment of this prophecy, Herod had children two years and younger murdered. That didn’t work out for Herod, as it didn’t for the Pharaoh when Moses was a babe. Will we ever learn that frustrating the Will of God is fruitless?

Despite all the Old Testament references to the coming Moshiach as a descendant to the Throne of David, which Jesus was; and the High Priest, as a descendant of Levi, which He was; and that He gave Clear Signs, they still rejected Him. Why? Power and control by the FAKE “Jews” wielding it in Jerusalem. By the time Jesus arrived in Jerusalem, Babylonian Talmudism had taken over; and was practiced AS Judaism, Instead of relying on The Torah, the elders ruled by Talmudic tradition, written and oral traditions in political and religious matters. Jesus’ arrival meant their charade was up.

John 5:45 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is [one] that accuseth you, [even] Moses, in whom ye trust.
John 5:46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.
John 5:47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

Jesus could be called a “whistleblower” or “Truther”, because He definitely rocked the establishment.


Jesus condemned their traditions – the Talmud. The elders asked him, “Why do your disciples transgress the tradition of the elders?” Jesus replied, “Why do ye also transgress the Commandment of God by your tradition?” Jesus went on to say, “Thus have ye made the Commandment of God of none effect by your tradition (Talmud)… But in vain they do worship Me, teaching [for] doctrines the commandments of men (man-made laws/legislation) (Matt. 15:3-9).”

As Jesus, Christ fulfilled the Old Testament prophecies about His Coming as The Moshiach, from the line of Judah, which was Messiah bin David. As Jesus, the anointed son of Mary, Christ spoke of His second coming and gave Clear Signs on what to look for, even saying to search the Scriptures (John 5:39). The Scriptures say the second coming will be from the line of Joseph (Messiah bin Joseph).

Genesis 49:10 The sceptre shall not depart from Judah [to Joseph], nor a law-giver from between his feet, UNTIL Shiloh comes [from Joseph-Ephraim v 22-24]; and unto him [shall] the gathering of the people [be].

The elders cannot refute this prophecy found in The Torah, the first five books of the Old Testament, but they can confuse their followers, by mixing up the order. From their tradition, the elders teach that Messiah bin Joseph comes before Messiah bin David. This man-made prophecy is in direct opposition to what God prophesied in The Torah. The sceptre was given to Judah first, then passes to Joseph.

When it gets to that point, where they realize that both are incarnations of Christ The Mahdi, it’s going to be too late. “Behold, he cometh with “Clouds”; and every eye shall see him, and they [also] which pierced (crucified) him: and all kindreds of the Earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen (Rev. 1:7).”

This event is also found in the Old Testament: “They will look on Me, the One they have pierced, and they will mourn for Him as one mourns for an only child, and grieve bitterly for Him as one grieves for a firstborn son (Zech. 12:10).”


Still yet, the Jews were given a Token from one of their own. Their most honored and venerated rabbi Yitzchak Kaduri told them in a note he wrote not long before he died. So how does what Kaduri wrote become hearsay, even when his private students confirmed his teachings? He said the opposite of what they teach in Talmudic tradition. Kaduri wrote The Moshiach was Jesus.

Rabbi’s Hidden Message Decoded Shocks the World! And Jewish History Forever Changed:

They didn’t crucify Kaduri, because he instructed that the note be sealed until after his death. The worldwide release of his message happened in 2007. Instead of embracing what he sought to teach the Jews, the Establishment decided to try to hide or discredit his revelation. And little devils came out of the woodwork to troll and discredit a truth – one they’ll reject before accepting.

If Jews will not believe their most venerated rabbi Kaduri, then what more could be written here?
 





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#9
The Christians and Their Messiah

Now that belief systems of the Muslims and Judaism have been challenged, it’s time to rock the Christian world.

Despite Jesus confirming He was sent to fully preach God’s Law (Matt. 5:17-20), which is The Law of Moses found in The Torah, Christians falsely believe The Law of Moses no longer applies to them, preferring to believe they can do and act as they’d like, along a very wide path, with only lip service required to profess they believe “in Jesus”.

This belief system is nowhere near accurate. He cannot be their Lord if they commit treason against him day in and day out.

Christians are instructed to “Believe Him” – this means believe (and DO) what He said; and He said that they must become LIKE Him to enter the Hereafter. How many Christians live by His Example, which is a very narrow (strait), straight, righteous Way of God? Scripture states not many find it (Matt. 7:14; Rev. 14:3; 2Esdras 9:15-16). So to all those who think they are already saved, they need to do the math.

Matt. 7:14 Because Strait [is] the gate, and narrow [is] The Way, which leadeth unto Life, and FEW there be that find it.

Jesus SAID The Way was narrow and FEW find it. Do Christians believe Him?

Why do only a few find it? The simple answer is they do not want to live by God’s Law, or truly live Jesus’ Example of following It. Remember Gandhi said, “I like your Christ, but not you Christians” and “if the British were truly followers of Christ, there would be no other religion on Earth.”

They have the audacity to think that God’s Law is less than perfect or that it is too hard; yet they are lulled into obeying hundreds of thousands of pieces of man-made legislation that never stop piling up; and those acts are in direct opposition to God’s Law (Deut. 4:2).


The Way isn’t easy. It’s a test. Adam and Eve failed; which set the stage here as “life with hard labor”. The entire nation of Israel failed, which set the stage for “oppression and imprisonment” leading twice to their enslavement. And even after Jesus showed them The Way we all have to BE, they failed again. Christians don’t live by His Example; instead, they have driven many away from God, not closer to Him. Say it isn’t so. We have a lot of people today living by their own version of right and wrong (Deut. 12:8), because they certainly didn’t find the truth in man-made religions.

If Jesus taught that a follower of His should not pray in public, or in churches, why do so-called Christians do it? They still like to BE SEEN performing their lip service (Matt. 6:1-5).

Jesus clearly said to pray to God in Private and that those who pray in public and churches are hypocrites:

Matt. 6:5 And when thou prayest, thou shalt NOT be as the hypocrites [ARE]: for they love to pray standing in the churches and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen by men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
Matt. 6:6
But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and WHEN THOU HAST SHUT THY DOOR, pray to thy Father in private; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.

[Muslims were given the same instruction: Call on your Lord with HUMILITY and in PRIVATE: for “I AM” loveth not those who trespass beyond bounds (Sura 7:55)]

If Jesus said not to perform vain repetitions, why do so-called Christians vainly repeat The Lord’s Prayer and the Apostle’s Creed? The Lord’s Prayer was an example of how to approach God with humility (Matt. 6:7-15).

If Jesus said to call NO one “Father”, why do Christians call popes and bishops and priests fathers? If He said to call No one Master, but Him, then, why do Christians use this term to label a so-called advanced person?

Matt. 23:9 And call no [man] your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.
Matt. 23:10 Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, [even] Christ.

This list could go on, but proves with just the simplest instruction, Christians strayed from what The Master taught.

If Jesus said not to pray in churches, why were they built? Christians are practicing “Paulianity”, best explained by JAH in his article, “Paul said, “It is NOT I That Lives“.

To his credit, Paul warned Christians about the Roman Catholic Church and their pope (Latin for “father”), while also confirming he once profited from Talmudism himself (Gal. 1:13-14):

Gal 1:6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from Him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel (christianity):
Gal 1:7 Which is not another (because they “call” it christianity); but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the [True] gospel of Christ.
2 Thess. 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for [that day shall not come], except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of the Destroyer;
2 Thess. 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God (the Holy Father).

[Muslims were also told about building mosques and commanded not to build them, or enter them, if others built them:

Sura 9:107 And there are those who put up mosques (etc.), by way of mischief and BETRAYAL – to disunite the Believers – and in preparation for one who warred against “I AM” (Rev. 12:7) and His Messenger aforetime. They will indeed swear that their intention is nothing but good; but “I AM” doth declare that they are certainly LIARS.]

From Catholic Catechisms to the idiomatic Message Bible, Christianity is also inundated with volumes of other books to read instead of The Holy Bible.

While Christians can get caught up in these countless volumes offering wide paths, they are following blind leaders. For instance, the head of the Catholic Church wants to make a “new tradition” – changing the Lord’s Prayer. He says it goes against the teaching of his church. Obviously, this fake is clueless as to its true meaning on how to address the True Holy Father – God.

The deception doesn’t stop at the Catholic Church. Protestant Christian “tradition” does its fair share of leading followers astray. For instance, Christian tradition mix up prophecies about the Prophet Elijah and his disciple Elias/Elisha, falsely teaching Elijah’s second coming was fulfilled in John The Baptist. But, Jesus clearly taught His disciples, John The Baptist was Elias (Elijah’s disciple, Elias/Elisha – 1 Kings 19:16-21).

Matt. 17:11 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things.
Matt. 17:12 But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of Man suffer of them.
Matt. 17:13 Then the disciples understood that he spoke unto them of John the Baptist (Elias – Elisha NOT Elijah).

This is the same Elijah and Elisha that Muslims know as righteous (Sura 6:85).

Elijah had passed his mantle to Elias/Elisha when he departed the world; Elisha reincarnated as John The Baptist passed the mantle back to Jesus/Elijah during His baptism (Matt. 3:16).

Besides, The times of Jesus (the first coming) were not the great and dreadful Day of The “I AM” (Judgment Day, following the second coming) of end-time prophecy:

Malachi 4:4 Remember ye and return to The Law of Moses My servant, which I commanded unto him in Horeb for all Israel, [with] the Statutes and Judgments.
Malachi 4:5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the Prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful Day of the “I AM” (Sura 43:61):
Malachi 4:6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.

Elijah comes just before The Great and Dreadful Day. Thus, it might behoove the inhabitants of the Earth to look for someone who is magnifying The Law of Moses; calling for the remembrance and return of God’s Law.

We can be reasonably certain he’s been treated like all the other Prophets – ridiculed, arrested, not believed, battling a modern-day Jezebel, and so forth.
 





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#10
Universal truth for Christians, Jesus is the only way. Confess him as your lord and saviour get baptized, receive holy spirit. And fight spiritual battle rest of your days. That's it..nothing extra.Certainly no extra dudes from other faiths involved in the process Mt 22:25 is almost ironic in your context.
I would suggest taking the time to read the whole article. It is quite lengthy but it is addressing not only Christian belief, but also that of Muslims and Jews. Because of the length is has been posted in sections.
 





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#11
Conclusion

The Three Holy Books in perfect harmony as One Book: The King of kings’ Bible

It makes sense that the Savior all three major monotheistic religions are waiting on is the same one. It’s the most logical conclusion, based on Truth found in the Holy Scriptures from the Old Testament, New Testament, and Koran.

It was man, by obeying Satan, who sowed confusion writing other texts; and teaching their own evil traditions. Luciferians work tirelessly to keep the world divided; and the best way is through perceived religious differences. These tactics work to keep people blinded to what’s right in front of them – The Way to unite them.

The Southern Kingdom (two-tribe House of Judah) in Jerusalem failed to recognize Jesus as Moshiach, although they were given Scriptural Signs.

Christ gave clear signs to His second coming. He instructed His disciples to go to the lost sheep of the House of Israel (Matt. 10:6). These lost sheep are the 10 tribes of the Northern Kingdom whom God had already scattered upon the face of the entire Earth. They are NOT Jewish – but are Christians. The Northern Kingdom is failing to recognize these Signs.

JAH recognized them and wrote “Signs of the End Times”.


King of kings and Lord of lords.

In the overall picture, every evil thing man does actually hastens The Moshiach’s arrival, which is the return of Christ, The Mahdi – and most, especially those in power, aren’t going to like The Judgment.

It’s not the end of the World. It’s the end of Satan’s rule of it, known as Winter.

Summer is coming.

Matt. 24:32 Now learn a parable of the Fig tree (Jews); When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves (1948), ye know that Summer [is] nigh.

The shortlink to this article is https://wp.me/p2TF2i-Vn
 





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#13
Mahdi and Jesus the son of Mary are two completely different people. Jesus a.s. is our Messiah, Mahdi is NOT. Whether Mahdi will come or not can be debated but he and Jesus a.s. will never be the same person.

According to the Koran, when studied by itself, the Mahdi and Messiah/Christ have to be one and the same, because the term Mahdi is used only once in the Koran (Sura 43:61).
Mahdi is not mentioned in this verse at all, what are you even talking about? Neither does the second verse you've mentioned talks about any of this.


Can you stop trying to gaslight people here or act like you've studied all of these faiths because clearly you haven't and your google searches aren't working in your favour.
 





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#14
Mahdi and Jesus the son of Mary are two completely different people. Jesus a.s. is our Messiah, Mahdi is NOT. Whether Mahdi will come or not can be debated but he and Jesus a.s. will never be the same person.


Mahdi is not mentioned in this verse at all, what are you even talking about? Neither does the second verse you've mentioned talks about any of this.
The Hadith is not the Koran. -

[The Truth about the Hadith]
 





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#15
What are you even saying? Nobody said that Hadith = Quran, i didn't even use the word hadith. I just said that the verses don't say what you said they say at all. We know how most hadith aren't true and we know how to figure out which isn't. Stop pointing me to articles that we can debunk on one hand and stop just mentioning Verses in number and saying that they say one thing which they don't.
 





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#16
@bible_student
Muslims may not believe Christ is The Mahdi until The Ark of The Covenant is revealed:

Sura 2:248 And (further) their Prophet said to them: “A Sign of his authority is that there shall come to you The Ark of The Covenant, with (an assurance) therein of security from your Lord, and the relics left by the family of Moses and the family of Aaron, carried by angels. In this is a Symbol for you if ye indeed have faith.”
you're quoting out of context


246.
Have you not considered the assembly of the Children of Israel after [the time of] Moses when they said to a prophet of theirs, "Send to us a king, and we will fight in the way of Allah "? He said, "Would you perhaps refrain from fighting if fighting was prescribed for you?" They said, "And why should we not fight in the cause of Allah when we have been driven out from our homes and from our children?" But when fighting was prescribed for them, they turned away, except for a few of them. And Allah is Knowing of the wrongdoers.
247.
And their prophet said to them, "Indeed, Allah has sent to you Saul as a king." They said, "How can he have kingship over us while we are more worthy of kingship than him and he has not been given any measure of wealth?" He said, "Indeed, Allah has chosen him over you and has increased him abundantly in knowledge and stature. And Allah gives His sovereignty to whom He wills. And Allah is all-Encompassing [in favor] and Knowing."
248.
And their prophet said to them, "Indeed, a sign of his kingship is that the chest will come to you in which is assurance from your Lord and a remnant of what the family of Moses and the family of Aaron had left, carried by the angels. Indeed in that is a sign for you, if you are believers."
249.
And when Saul went forth with the soldiers, he said, "Indeed, Allah will be testing you with a river. So whoever drinks from it is not of me, and whoever does not taste it is indeed of me, excepting one who takes [from it] in the hollow of his hand." But they drank from it, except a [very] few of them. Then when he had crossed it along with those who believed with him, they said, "There is no power for us today against Goliath and his soldiers." But those who were certain that they would meet Allah said, "How many a small company has overcome a large company by permission of Allah. And Allah is with the patient."

it has nothing to do with 'end times'.

The term Mahdi is used only once in the Koran (Sura 43:61):

Sura 43:61 And (Christ the Mahdi) shall be a Sign (for the coming of) the Hour (of Judgment): therefore have no doubt about the (Hour), but follow ye Me: this is The Straight Way.

It doesn’t read Christ will appear before The Mahdi, it reads as a TITLE – “Christ The Mahdi” appears before The Judgment.

And indeed, Jesus will be [a sign for] knowledge of the Hour, so be not in doubt of it, and follow Me. This is a straight path.
Wainnahu laAAilmun lilssaAAati fala tamtarunna biha waittabiAAooni hatha siratun mustaqeemun


it doesn't say 'Mahdi'

Also, the hadith doesn't say '12 imams' it says '12 caliphs from Quraysh'.
I believe this connects with the promise God made to Abraham and Hagar concerning Ismael.
"make him a great nation and raise 12 princes from him".
this obv is a post-islam fulfillment.
 





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#17
Christianity has nothing to do with islam @bible_student
That's because you don't use your head to understand what is given to you.
Under christianity, the Gentiles of faith, became like the israelite patriarchs 'living under the grace of God by faith'.
Paul went to great lengths to explain how Abraham was not reckoned by works but by faith, eg that he only completed the circumcision at 80 AFTER he had faith, eg that the circumcision didnt lead to faith, but faith led to the circumcision.

YET, just like Abraham created the symbol of circumcision AFTER he had already lived by faith..God saw fit to give the LAW of Moses, to Israelites, long after Grace had already come to them.
By basic logic, it makes sense that the gentiles were to receive the LAW and to live under WORKS again.

furthermore, the law was only given to the israelites after they had lost their faith whilst living in egypt, a foreign land with foreign beliefs.
Remember, the patriarchs settled in Egypt for their survival where they were persecuted.

The christians, left judea/palestine and went to asia minor/ROME. They were persecuted..and then the same damn thing happened to gentiles as it did with the israelites..they mixed up pagan ideas, innovated and the christian religion was lost.

islam has to do with christianity, what Moses had to do with Abraham.
 





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#18
Can you stop trying to gaslight people here or act like you've studied all of these faiths because clearly you haven't and your google searches aren't working in your favour.
First of all, no claim like that has been made and I'm certainly not trying to gaslight anyone. As my screen name should hopefully indicate, I'm a student as well and am also in the process of studying the article posted above. I don't know what you mean about google searches, can you explain what you meant, please?
What are you even saying? Nobody said that Hadith = Quran, i didn't even use the word hadith.
I know you didn't use the word, but what you said - the stated belief about what it means - comes from the tradition (hadith) does it not? The verse is actually quoted as well. As you may know, the various translations into English for the Koran vary quite a lot in their interpretation. I study the Koran as presented in the new King of kings' Bible Edition which is basically the Abdullah Yusuf Ali Koran more correctly interpreted (i.e. not biased by hadiths, unlike the others) and harmonised with the king James Bible. What you said I believe is based on the traditional teaching which comes from hadiths and not from the Quran.
I just said that the verses don't say what you said they say at all.
You also said:

"Mahdi and Jesus the son of Mary are two completely different people. Jesus a.s. is our Messiah, Mahdi is NOT. Whether Mahdi will come or not can be debated but he and Jesus a.s. will never be the same person."

And that is why I then made a reference to the Hadith, because as far as my understanding, that view comes from hadiths.
We know how most hadith aren't true and we know how to figure out which isn't.
I'm glad you say that you know most aren't true. We go a step further than that though and don't use them at all.
Stop pointing me to articles that we can debunk on one hand and stop just mentioning Verses in number and saying that they say one thing which they don't.
The article (about the Hadith) has been up for years and no one has ever been able to debunk it.

So, just to hopefully make clear what is being said, if you read what the article (posted in this thread) is saying-

"Muslims rely on Hadith traditions, which are man’s interpretations – belief systems passed down from one generation to the next.

These traditions say that Christ will come before The Mahdi and that Christ will help The Mahdi defeat Evil. Although the Koran doesn’t teach that a series of 12 Imams will come, with the 12th being The Mahdi, many Muslims hold this traditional belief as truth.

The term Mahdi is used only once in the Koran (Sura 43:61):

Sura 43:61 And (Christ the Mahdi) shall be a Sign (for the coming of) the Hour (of Judgment): therefore have no doubt about the (Hour), but follow ye Me: this is The Straight Way."

Just to say this again. No one is trying to gaslight you or anyone here by sharing this article. It was shared because of having found the quality of the discussion on this forum to be refreshing and so that is the reason why it was shared, and so also with others postings, and it is not to "gaslight" you or anyone. We have all been taught things that we sooner or later find out were not true, because the world is a mess due to all the lies people have been taught. The objective is to encourage people to study because the truth has to be uncovered so we can all (who want to) learn it instead. I can certainly understand if you have felt that what it (and other discussions) says have challenged your beliefs, since that surely is not what you grew up with, but it is the same for me and others too and that is not gaslighting and I'm certainly not here to try to do that to you or anyone else.

So, I hope you will have another look at the article, and perhaps you may come to see and consider all of this in a new light, and just think about what it is saying and asking? May Peace be upon you.

Lets first make something clear :
all Muslims are waiting for Jesus son of Mary the Messiah.
Mahdi is someone else. he is not the messiah he is just a ruler. and there are few scholars who dont accept the Mahdi.
Mahdi and Jesus the son of Mary are two completely different people. Jesus a.s. is our Messiah, Mahdi is NOT.
Thank you and understood. So both you and @friend are saying the same, but look at what people find when they search online for the meaning of the Mahdi:

Mahdi

Also found in: Thesaurus, Encyclopedia, Wikipedia.Mah·di
(mä′dē)n. pl. Mah·dis Islam1.
a.
The messiah prophesied to appear at the world's end and establish a reign ofpeace and righteousness.

b. In Twelver Shia belief, the 12th imam, who is expected to emerge fromoccultation to fulfill this role.

2. A person who claims to be or is seen as the messiah.

https://www.thefreedictionary.com/Mahdi

So as you can see, it says Mahdi is not a different leader, but says that the Mahdi is the messiah?
 





Last edited:
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#19
First of all, no claim like that has been made and I'm certainly not trying to gaslight anyone. As my screen name should hopefully indicate, I'm a student as well and am also in the process of studying the article posted above. I don't know what you mean about google searches, can you explain what you meant, please?

I know you didn't use the word, but what you said - the stated belief about what it means - comes from the tradition (hadith) does it not? The verse is actually quoted as well. As you may know, the various translations into English for the Koran vary quite a lot in their interpretation. I study the Koran as presented in the new King of kings' Bible Edition which is basically the Abdullah Yusuf Ali Koran more correctly interpreted (i.e. not biased by hadiths, unlike the others) and harmonised with the king James Bible. What you said I believe is based on the traditional teaching which comes from hadiths and not from the Quran.

You also said:

"Mahdi and Jesus the son of Mary are two completely different people. Jesus a.s. is our Messiah, Mahdi is NOT. Whether Mahdi will come or not can be debated but he and Jesus a.s. will never be the same person."

And that is why I then made a reference to the Hadith, because as far as my understanding, that view comes from hadiths.

I'm glad you say that you know most aren't true. We go a step further than that though and don't use them at all.

The article (about the Hadith) has been up for years and no one has ever been able to debunk it.

So, just to hopefully make clear what is being said, if you read what the article (posted in this thread) is saying-

"Muslims rely on Hadith traditions, which are man’s interpretations – belief systems passed down from one generation to the next.

These traditions say that Christ will come before The Mahdi and that Christ will help The Mahdi defeat Evil. Although the Koran doesn’t teach that a series of 12 Imams will come, with the 12th being The Mahdi, many Muslims hold this traditional belief as truth.

The term Mahdi is used only once in the Koran (Sura 43:61):

Sura 43:61 And (Christ the Mahdi) shall be a Sign (for the coming of) the Hour (of Judgment): therefore have no doubt about the (Hour), but follow ye Me: this is The Straight Way."

Just to say this again. No one is trying to gaslight you or anyone here by sharing this article. It was shared because of having found the quality of the discussion on this forum to be refreshing and so that is the reason why it was shared, and so also with others postings, and it is not to "gaslight" you or anyone. We have all been taught things that we sooner or later find out were not true, because the world is a mess due to all the lies people have been taught. The objective is to encourage people to study because the truth has to be uncovered so we can all (who want to) learn it instead. I can certainly understand if you have felt that what it (and other discussions) says have challenged your beliefs, since that surely is not what you grew up with, but it is the same for me and others too and that is not gaslighting and I'm certainly not here to try to do that to you or anyone else.

So, I hope you will have another look at the article, and perhaps you may come to see and consider all of this in a new light, and just think about what it is saying and asking? May Peace be upon you.



Thank you and understood. So both you and @friend are saying the same, but look at what people find when they search online for the meaning of the Mahdi:

Mahdi

Also found in: Thesaurus, Encyclopedia, Wikipedia.Mah·di
(mä′dē)n. pl. Mah·dis Islam1.
a.
The messiah prophesied to appear at the world's end and establish a reign ofpeace and righteousness.

b. In Twelver Shia belief, the 12th imam, who is expected to emerge fromoccultation to fulfill this role.

2. A person who claims to be or is seen as the messiah.

https://www.thefreedictionary.com/Mahdi

So as you can see, it says Mahdi is not a different leader, but says that the Mahdi is the messiah?
Yes because I follow wikipedia as my source of faith lol.

You keep quoting the verses wrong. 43:61 does NOT mention Mahdi at all, it says Jesus a.s. AspiringSoul already answered you well enough but quoting verses wrong is not going to work in anyone's favor.
The entire reason some scholars don't believe in the existence of Mahdi is because he isn't mentioned in the Quran, his only existence comes from the Hadiths. Either way he is a completely different person from the Prophet Jesus a.s.
 





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#20
By basic logic, it makes sense that the gentiles were to receive the LAW and to live under WORKS again.
Proverbs‬ ‭3:5‬ ‭
Trust in the LORD with all your heart And do not lean on your own understanding.
And...
Galatians‬ ‭3:10-14‬​
For as many as are of the works of the Law are under a curse; for it is written, “CURSED IS EVERYONE WHO DOES NOT ABIDE BY ALL THINGS WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF THE LAW, TO PERFORM THEM.” Now that no one is justified by the Law before God is evident; for, “THE RIGHTEOUS MAN SHALL LIVE BY FAITH.” However, the Law is not of faith; on the contrary, “HE WHO PRACTICES THEM SHALL LIVE BY THEM.” Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us—for it is written, “CURSED IS EVERYONE WHO HANGS ON A TREE ”— in order that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we would receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
islam has to do with christianity, what Moses had to do with Abraham.
Islam has nothing to do with Christianity...the god of islam is not the God of the Bible. Islam can try to claim it’s part of the Abrahamic faiths..but that is made up..there is no such thing as the Abrahamic faith. There is only God’s chosen people the Jews and Christians that came from Abraham. The Jews through Abraham, Issac and Jacob and the Christians when the Jews rejected Jesus. Though, @AspiringSoul you can become a Christian through believing on Jesus, all people no matter who they are, where they live, skin color, sexual identification or religion, can become Christians...but that way is through Jesus, the only begotten Son of God who took the punishment for our sins and if you believe on Him you can be saved.
And that is a much different message than what islam claims...
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