The Bible versus other religious texts

[Infinityloop]

If the gospel can be pitched and "sold" then it's not worth having.

The concept of 'selling' is the concept of proselytizing. Red sky at morning even used the analogy once "if you had a cool new bike and you wanted to share it with everyone" about his reasons for doing so.

The point of this thread has already been restated over and over again. If you are going to curse me, defame me and call me damned to hell (and the rest of the spiel), please give me your reasons for taking the Bible over other religious scriptures?
Thank you

 

[Infinityloop]

Is your OP and suggested pattern of communication really an invitation for Christians to immerse themselves in a rainbow of spiritual texts (that cannot all be true but may all be false)?

Ok, put it the other way around. Are you implying that non-Christians should 'immerse themselves in a rainbow of Biblical texts'?


The tone of your post is complete arrogance, you've expressed to me constant disinterest in even reading the scriptures of other religions and exploring their merits, this is just you repeating it again. I once again have a very very very hard time seeing Christianity as anything other than outright nihilism.

To explore this idea in words better than my own, consider “Meditation in a Toolshed” by C.S. Lewis:-


“Meditation in a Toolshed”
C. S. Lewis

I was standing today in the dark toolshed. The sun was shining outside and through the crack at the top of the door there came a sunbeam. From where I stood that beam of light, with the specks of dust floating in it, was the most striking thing in the place. Everything else was almost pitch-black. I was seeing the beam, not seeing things by it.
Then I moved, so that the beam fell on my eyes. Instantly the whole previous picture vanished. I saw no toolshed, and (above all) no beam. Instead I saw, framed in the irregular cranny at the top of the door, green leaves moving on the branches of a tree outside and beyond that, 90 odd million miles away, the sun. Looking along the beam, and looking at the beam are very different experiences...

Full text

1 Originally published in The Coventry Evening Telegraph (July 17, 1945); reprinted in God in the Dock (Eerdmans, 1970; 212-15).

Question: Do you consider C.S. Lewis' "Meditation in a toolshed" to be part of the New Testament?

 

[JoChris]

I once again have a very very very hard time seeing Christianity as anything other than outright nihilism.

Then read the bible. You definitely have enough reading comprehension skills to cope with the Gospel of John. There are only 21 chapters.
John chapter 1

 

[Infinityloop]

Gladly.

--->Right here.

I don't know why you're quoting that, unless you mean in reference to another thread where the same thing on this thread happened. That very post you quoted was in response to people completely ignoring the question asked.

Your linked thread asked how you reconcile the concept of prophets with the item known as the Bible (providing that you do believe that Prophets were real people and not storybook characters).

This thread asks what the Bibles actual merits are in comparison to other religious texts, aka "Why the Bible to the exclusion of everything else?", a logical defense for the superiority of the Bible. Clearly you're not interested in answering that either, as nobody else has in the three pages so far.

 

[Infinityloop]

Then read the bible. You definitely have enough reading comprehension skills to cope with the Gospel of John. There are only 21 chapters.
John chapter 1

*Notice the thread title**

This thread does **not** ask you what book from the Bible I should read.

Btw, it's hilarious that I never see you recommending to read the gospel of Mark. It's always the last, non-synoptic gnostic gospel written by the Johannines.

 

[JoChris]

*Notice the thread title**

This thread does **not** ask you what book from the Bible I should read.

Btw, it's hilarious that I never see you recommending to read the gospel of Mark. It's always the last, non-synoptic gnostic gospel written by the Johannines.

Gospel of John is the one always recommended for people who know nothing about Christianity. You definitely fit in that category.

You could have been to the second chapter by now.

 

[Infinityloop]

Gospel of John is the one always recommended for people who know nothing about Christianity. You definitely fit in that category.

You could have been to the second chapter by now.

Everyone's grandmother knows the gospel of John, your facetiousness is not warranted. You could be a positive influence on people here and for the image of Christianity if you wanted to.
Try to bend your facetiousness towards the thread theme.

Start with "Why is the Gospel of John authoritative"? (to you)
"Why is the Gospel of John more important to texts from other religions"?
"How has the Gospel of John changed your own life"?
Then you go and extend this to the entire Bible (which everyone on this thread has already read): Why take the Bible over other religious scriptures? What is the Bible's value? Why should a non-Christian start believing that the Bible is true?​

If you answer even one of these questions genuinely without either mocking (which is not a good strategy for proselytizing) or linking to arbitrary apologetic sites which are not written by you and do not show your own reasoning for accepting the Bible over all other religious scriptures.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

Question: Do you consider C.S. Lewis' "Meditation in a toolshed" to be part of the New Testament?

Certainly not, and yet in another sense it goes to the heart of the message - Jesus invites us into an experiential relationship.

Take these words from John 7...

37 In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.

38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.

39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

 

[JoChris]

Everyone's grandmother knows the gospel of John, your facetiousness is not warranted. You could be a positive influence on people here and for the image of Christianity if you wanted to.
Try to bend your facetiousness towards the thread theme.

Start with "Why is the Gospel of John authoritative"? (to you)​

"Why is the Gospel of John more important to texts from other religions"?​

"How has the Gospel of John changed your own life"?​

Then you go and extend this to the entire Bible (which everyone on this thread has already read): Why take the Bible over other religious scriptures? What is the Bible's value? Why should a non-Christian start believing that the Bible is true?​

If you answer even one of these questions genuinely without either mocking (which is not a good strategy for proselytizing) or linking to arbitrary apologetic sites which are not written by you and do not show your own reasoning for accepting the Bible over all other religious scriptures.

You are not everyone's Grandmother. You blatantly refuse to read what is shown to you.

I am being extra kind to you now: eternal life results https://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?quicksearch=eternal+life+&qs_version=KJV.

I know OTHER people will read the verses at least. Read the surrounding verses for context, even better if you read the whole chapter.

 

[Infinityloop]

You are not everyone's Grandmother. You blatantly refuse to read what is shown to you.

I am being extra kind to you now: eternal life results https://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?quicksearch=eternal+life+&qs_version=KJV.

I know OTHER people will read the verses at least. Read the surrounding verses for context, even better if you read the whole chapter.

Why is this thread SO HARD for you to answer? I would expect you to at least have some reason to believe in the Bible. These shouldn't be difficult for someone who believes that they have absolute certainty that they have the correct beliefs, follow the right religion and have the right book. Why is it so hard for you to answer such a basic question?

 

[JoChris]

Why is this thread SO HARD for you to answer? I would expect you to at least have some reason to believe in the Bible. These shouldn't be difficult for someone who believes that they have absolute certainty that they have the correct beliefs, follow the right religion and have the right book. Why is it so hard for you to answer such a basic question?

You will have the answer provided from the bible.
Why is it so hard for you to do that? What are you afraid of? What have you got to lose from seeing the PRIMARY source for yourself?

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

Why is this thread SO HARD for you to answer? I would expect you to at least have some reason to believe in the Bible. These shouldn't be difficult for someone who believes that they have absolute certainty that they have the correct beliefs, follow the right religion and have the right book. Why is it so hard for you to answer such a basic question?

I did note that you did not appear to be at all interested in external evidence that might corroborate the Bible? As this appears to be the most constructive approach that Christians might take to such a question, I’m at a loss as to what you want any of us to say?!

 

[Infinityloop]

I’m at a loss as to what you want any of us to say?!

WHY you choose the Bible over all other religious scriptures?
WHY you exclude all other religious scriptures?
WHAT makes the Bible superior to all other religious scriptures?
WHAT makes all other religious scriptures inferior?

(hint: Read the OP for once)

 

[Infinityloop]

You will have the answer provided from the bible.

You have it all inverted. You are saying that my answer to the thread is found in the Bible, so then elaborate: "WHY?" WHAT makes the Bible objective fact? WHAT does it have to offer followers of other religious scriptures? WHAT are it's advantages? WHAT is unique only to it? WHERE do other religious scriptures fail in comparison to the Bible? HOW many other religious scriptures have you given considerable study and attention to in order to determine the superiority of the Bible?

Why is it so hard for you to do that? What are you afraid of? What have you got to lose from seeing the PRIMARY source for yourself?

Why are you repeatedly giving irrelevant responses to questions not asked, basically through all your posts in this thread?

 

[JoChris]

You have it all inverted. You are saying that my answer to the thread is found in the Bible, so then elaborate: "WHY?" WHAT makes the Bible objective fact? WHAT does it have to offer followers of other religious scriptures? WHAT are it's advantages? WHAT is unique only to it?



Why are you repeatedly giving irrelevant responses to questions not asked, basically through all your posts in this thread?

I believe professionals who create Christian apologetics websites which answer those exact questions would be much more beneficial to you than anything I could possibly type.
Would you be willing to read them?

 

[Infinityloop]

I believe professionals who create Christian apologetics websites which answer those exact questions would be much more beneficial to you than anything I could possibly type.
Would you be willing to read them?

That was already answered in this post: https://vigilantcitizenforums.com/threads/the-bible-versus-other-religious-texts.6290/post-248899

Apologetics are easier to find than ants around a lolipop on a sunny day, they are the opposite of what is being asked here. No I would not be willing to read them, apologetics is an insult to religion (of any sort). Once you bring in apologetics you have debunked the value of the religion being represented. Apologetics are antireligious and antispiritual by their very nature.
And apologetics is one of those things that does make people leave the religion they were following, for the exact reason that they have no value to anything and only skirt around important issues for simple egotistical self-preservation of already held beliefs. Apologetics is for the spiritually blind and the religiously secular.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

WHY you choose the Bible over all other religious scriptures?
WHY you exclude all other religious scriptures?
WHAT makes the Bible superior to all other religious scriptures?
WHAT makes all other religious scriptures inferior?

(hint: Read the OP for once)

Do you believe in the philosophical statement “A is not non-A”?

The reason for the question is that the Bible makes certain exclusive truth claims. You might well hate it for that reason but, as the saying goes “it is what it is”.

Given that, the question of the thinker should be - what external evidences or challenges can we bring to bear if the veracity if the Book, and where does that leave us. As a secondary challenge (perhaps for those who claim the reliability of other books), can they stand the same tests?

Archeology, language analysis and prophecy all seem like great areas to investigate to me...

e.g. https://www.vigilantcitizenforums.com/threads/the-real-mt-sinai.6377/

 

[Infinityloop]

Do you believe in the philosophical statement “A is not non-A”?

Sure.

The reason for the question is that the Bible makes certain exclusive truth claims. You might well hate it for that reason but, as the saying goes “it is what it is”.

Which truth claims do you think overrides rational questioning? I'm interested to know.
Is this a matter of "something that is too absurd and too dubious must be true if it's extreme enough"?

Also, why do you favor exclusivity over universality? surely if you have nine doctors claiming that humans have two arms, then you have one lone doctor claiming that humans have three arms, then that would raise a lot of doubts for you whether to trust that one doctor who's claims are not lining up with observable and experienceable reality at all (no, not materialistically).
Or do you have to resort to paranoia about the other nine doctors, and claim that they're all frauds who are there to deceive their clients?

Given that, the question of the thinker should be - what external evidences or challenges can we bring to bear if the veracity if the Book, and where does that leave us. As a secondary challenge (perhaps for those who claim the reliability of other books), can they stand the same tests?

Explain what challenges you think it passes that others don't, and explain why these challenges are held as signifiers of authenticity when compared to what other religions offer?

Would you apply the kinds of things you accept as 'external evidence' for Christianity to other religions who claim their own evidences for their own teachings and beliefs?

 

[JoChris]

That was already answered in this post: https://vigilantcitizenforums.com/threads/the-bible-versus-other-religious-texts.6290/post-248899

Apologetics are easier to find than ants around a lolipop on a sunny day, they are the opposite of what is being asked here. No I would not be willing to read them, apologetics is an insult to religion (of any sort). Once you bring in apologetics you have debunked the value of the religion being represented. Apologetics are antireligious and antispiritual by their very nature.
And apologetics is one of those things that does make people leave the religion they were following, for the exact reason that they have no value to anything and only skirt around important issues for simple egotistical self-preservation of already held beliefs. Apologetics is for the spiritually blind and the religiously secular.

Infinityloop, I have spent time in the past attempting to answer your questions and you reflexively dismissed everything I had typed. That is why I had stopped responding to you.

You therefore reject the bible, Christian apologetics sources AND personal explanations.
Why should Christians seek to explain anything to you? What is the point if you will dismiss ANYTHING that we type?

 

[Lisa]

Infinityloop, I have spent time in the past attempting to answer your questions and you reflexively dismissed everything I had typed.

Who hasn’t..and that’s always the result from infinityloop.