The Bible Teaches Terrorism and Killing Infants

Red Sky at Morning

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My own view, going out on a limb somewhat...

It would appear that there was something qualitatively different and inhuman about the Nephilim offspring of the “sons of God” and human women.

Genesis 6:4 reads as follows:

“The Nephilim were in the earth in those days, and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bore children to them; the same were the mighty men that were of old, the men of renown.”

The fact is that there will one day be something qualitatively different and inhuman about those who will take the Mark of the Beast and give their worship to the Antichrist.

Revelation 9

6And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.

This leads some to speculate that the Mark may have a genetic component and perhaps splice Nephilim DNA into those who receive it. Once they have done that, their only destination will be Hell. Hard words but true.
 
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Axl888

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Allah says, "the truth has came and falsehood has perished verily falsehood is bound to perish".

Allah says, "say, Oh People of the Book come to a word that is just between us and you that you worship nobody but God alone and that you do not associate others in worship with Him"....
Or perhaps mohammad says?...

A tit for tat...you dont believe in God according to our Bible, then dont expect us also to believe in your god according to your scriptures...for all we know, the koran was just made up jibberish according to mohammad's imagination, or perhaps lies dictated by satan (angel) to mohammad.
 

Wigi

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I don't believe the Bible today is the unaltered word of God but that is an entirely different discussion. We can discuss the corruption of the Bible in another thread but lets stick to the topic at hand. With that in mind, there is no point quoting verses from the Bible and expecting the Muslims to accept them because our position with the Torah and Bible is this. Anything that agrees with Islaam we accept. Anything that opposes Islam we reject
Fine that's a clear answer but I don't really understand why you're equating youth and/or fragility with innocence.
Now, you quoted the verses "for the imaginations of man's heart is evil from his youth". Do you understand from this that babies have evil hearts? Give me a straight up answer and don't beat around the bush and change the topic.
Here's what I think is globally true :
"Truly, this only I have found: That God made man upright, But they have sought out many schemes."
Ecclesiastes 7:29

But for these wicked nations who practiced all sorts of evil deeds, I think this particular verse is accurate:

"The wicked are estranged from the womb; They go astray as soon as they are born, speaking lies."
Psalms 58:3


Now for your question if whether they should be subject to punishment at the hands of man, I agrees when Jesus made the following reproach:

"But if you had known what this means, ‘I desire mercy and not sacrifice,’ you would not have condemned the guiltless."
Matthew 12:7
 

phipps

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Long story short, killing "some" babies is justified. Yes?

Doesn't this contradict your statement above?








I didn't ask what it was about, or even looking for someone to defend it.

Lets take a hypothetical.
I worship the sun. My brother worships the sun.
I leave the sun and decide to worship the moon.
Now the book me and my brother had tells my brother to kill me.

(Note the previous quoted verse instructs to kill family members).

How is this not terrorism?



After all...
You don't get it, how can you, you're not a Christian. God can take life since He gave it. I know those babies will be in heaven and I'd like to be there to see them grow eternally. I would also like to make it to heaven where I will fully understand why God killed entire nations including women, children and even animals. He will have a perfectly reasonable answer because He is God. I know I am limited as a human being living in this sinful world but I trust God completely and know He is just, merciful and loving even though it may not seem like it with some of His actions. There is always a reason.

I can answer your question more deeply (although I don't have most of the answers, no one does) but I'd have to explain to you what the Old Covenant is and the promises the Israelites and God made to each other, God's warning to the Israelites of what would happen if they broke those promises, etc. How God tried to protect His people from the pagan nations surrounding them. The Bible tells us there is a spiritual war going on that involves God and Satan. And unfortunately we are in the midst of that war and Satan is always trying to find opportunities to attack God's people. In the Old Covenant it was the Israelites and Jews and in the New Covenant it is true Christians.

Its too much to explain to a cynic. The Bible says, "But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned" (1 Corinthians 2:14). You are wrong about God but you I'll end it here.
 
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TokiEl

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Sorry, my God was never created.

Speaking about respect, and trolls. Mind telling us why your attacking Deserts convert thread as if you have any business there what so ever? Literally the 3rd post.

My first impression of you is a troll. Something tells me that's not changing anytime soon.


Good luck with your man-god. While I'm of the belief, when Jesus said God was greater then him, i took it literally.
Sit down and show some respect to your Maker man.
 

TokiEl

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I think you're confused. There's a difference between humans doing something based on what they believe and their interpretations of scripture to God commanding something and in this case the killing of people that had nothing to do with the situation and that to babies and children.
Shut up you hypocrite.

The Lord giveth and the Lord taketh away.
 

phipps

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So killing INNOCENT babies is not unjust? Its also seems a bit cruel to kill animals for no apparent reason. Many Christians have argued that the children would have grown up to be evil yet bring no evidence of that. Would the donkeys also grow up to be evil???! What did the donkey do wrong? Its not like they were being slaughtered for meat. It just says kill them for no apparent reason!
God gives life and can take it, he doesn't owe us an explanation for why He does anything. He has reasons, some we know and some we don't (we mostly don't know) but I trust Him because He is God. I don’t always understand God because I’m not God. But at the same time, I trust God that He is just and that He is love. I serve a sovereign and eternal God who knows everything. We are human and live in a sinful world, the way we view God is very tainted and limited in our human understanding. Remember God’s ways are higher than our ways and His thoughts are higher than our thoughts.

For this and other difficult subjects in the Bible, for God’s faithful, it is a matter of trust. We have to trust Him. I do and that's all there is to it.

You won't understand any of this because you don't have any relationship with the true God of the Bible, don't read and study the Bible which is how we get to know God. To understand even a little of the Bible we need God to guide us through the Holy spirit.

"But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned" (1 Corinthians 2:14). Like I said you are very wrong about God and its because you don't understand even the little that Christians do about God and have no faith in Him.
 
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phipps

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Maybe we should quote the violent verses from the Quran and Islamic writings. Terrorists quote them to justify their unspeakable and evil acts of violence around the world.
 

shankara

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Ok, let's try something really simple, something a child could easily understand.

When Moses rebukes the Israelites for worshipping "the golden calf", is this a story about an actual sculpture of a calf made of gold? Or is the "golden calf" a symbol of the love of money? Which one makes more sense and is more useful as a story, the literal or symbolic interpretation?
 

phipps

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Ok, let's try something really simple, something a child could easily understand.

When Moses rebukes the Israelites for worshipping "the golden calf", is this a story about an actual sculpture of a calf made of gold? Or is the "golden calf" a symbol of the love of money? Which one makes more sense and is more useful as a story, the literal or symbolic interpretation?
It would make sense if you actually read the complete story in the Bible. It was an actual golden calf. The children of Israel gathered all their gold to make the golden calf.

Here is what the Bible says: "Now when the people saw that Moses delayed coming down from the mountain, the people gathered together to Aaron, and said to him, “Come, make us gods that shall go before us; for as for this Moses, the man who brought us up out of the land of Egypt, we do not know what has become of him.” And Aaron said to them, “Break off the golden earrings which are in the ears of your wives, your sons, and your daughters, and bring them to me.” So all the people broke off the golden earrings which were in their ears, and brought them to Aaron. And he received the gold from their hand, and he fashioned it with an engraving tool, and made a molded calf. Then they said, “This is your god, O Israel, that brought you out of the land of Egypt!” So when Aaron saw it, he built an altar before it. And Aaron made a proclamation and said, “Tomorrow is a feast to the Lord.” Then they rose early on the next day, offered burnt offerings, and brought peace offerings; and the people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play" (Exodus 32:1-6). Its best to read the whole chapter to understand the complete literal story and the lesson to be learned from it.
 

Kung Fu

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Maybe we should quote the violent verses from the Quran and Islamic writings. Terrorists quote them to justify their unspeakable and evil acts of violence around the world.
The difference is all the violent verses in the Quran are in self defense against the people that were actually persecuting them. No where in Islam are you allowed to kill non-combatants especially women, children, and babies.
 

phipps

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The difference is all the violent verses in the Quran are in self defense against the people that were actually persecuting them. No where in Islam are you allowed to kill non-combatants especially women, children, and babies.
Stoning women who've committed adultery, Muhammed encouraging his men to molest enslaved women(Abu Dawood 2150, Qur'an 4:24), advocating the killing and crucifixion of others (Qur'an 5:33, Muslim 16:4131), sharia law where women are stoned or beaten, arms are cut off for stealing, people are beaten is all self defence?

“Kill them [unbelievers] wherever you find them… And fight them until there is no more unbelief and worship is for Allah alone” (Quran 2:191-193).

“Strike off their heads and strike from them every fingertip” (Quran 8:12).

“Allah has purchased from the believers their lives and their properties; in exchange for that they will have Paradise. They fight in the cause of Allah, so they slay and are slain” (Quran 9:111).

“Truly Allah loves those who fight in His cause in battle array…” (Quran 61:4)

‘Blessed are you when you persecute,’ (Quran 9:111).

‘Go and kill’ (Quran 47:3-4).

“The Messenger of Allah said: I have been commanded to fight against people till they testify that there is no god but Allah, and that Muhammad is the messenger of Allah” (Sahih Muslim 1:33).
 

billy t

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Shut up you hypocrite.

The Lord giveth and the Lord taketh away.
Yes God gives life and he takes it away but that doesn't justify the fact that
Maybe we should quote the violent verses from the Quran and Islamic writings. Terrorists quote them to justify their unspeakable and evil acts of violence around the world.
Yeah, go ahead. I am not an apologist. There is defensive and offensive jihad in Islaam but offensive jihad has details to it. Its carried out by Islamic rulers not vigilantees like ISIS who are khawaarij. ISIS got their beliefs from Marxism and Lenism not from the Qur'aan but that is another can of worms. All the verses about jihad have a specific context and they don't encoruage killing the innocent. You will not find any verse that encourages the killing of children and infants. However, so we don't go off topic then you can go start an thread for it and I will answer the questions on there.
 

phipps

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While I don't agree with parent which seems to me denying the killing ever happened, remember that the Whole bible is symbolic, even when talking about historical events. In fact there are 4 interpretation layers, and this already noted in the old testament. Literal, allegorical, anagogical, moral. There are passages that DO NOT MAKE SENSE unless symbolic, example:
"When it was evening, the disciples came to him and said, “This is a deserted place, and the hour is now late; send the crowds away so that they may go into the villages and buy food for themselves.” 16Jesus said to them, “They need not go away; you give them something to eat.” (Matthew 14).
This is clearly symbolic for their mission, because there is no way he was expecting a bunch of discipled to have brought enough food for the crowds in advance. You can track all four interpretation layers in this passage.
I hadn't seen this post.

Most of the Bible is not symbolic at all. Its mainly literal although symbolic language was used to empathise points or to describe something unfamiliar, special or even dangerous. We can tell by the context of the scripture we read.

For example when king David committed murder and adultery God had the prophet Nathan approach David with a message. The prophet didn’t directly accuse David of murder, covetousness and adultery. Instead he told a story of a rich man with many sheep, and a poor man with only one. When the rich man needed to entertain guests and prepare dinner, instead of killing one of his own sheep, he took the one special sheep from the poor man. The rich man represented the king. The poor man and his one beloved sheep represented the husband and the wife King David stole from him. David was angry that someone would do such a thing. But then the prophet told him, "you are that man!” With this new perspective the allegory provided, King David realized the depth of his own guilt and sinfulness before God.

Also in the the New Testament, there are several uses of allegory within parables Jesus told to teach His followers about life, relationships, and what it means to follow God.

There are books with more symbology than others like the books of Daniel and Revelation about end time prophecy. That symbolism was a form of protection. When explaining events, or prophecies of the future, these authors had to hide the message in symbolism so that people who wanted to understand could through the Holy Spirit, but others, such as oppressive political authorities could not.
 

phipps

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Yes God gives life and he takes it away but that doesn't justify the fact that

Yeah, go ahead. I am not an apologist. There is defensive and offensive jihad in Islaam but offensive jihad has details to it. Its carried out by Islamic rulers not vigilantees like ISIS who are khawaarij. ISIS got their beliefs from Marxism and Lenism not from the Qur'aan but that is another can of worms. All the verses about jihad have a specific context and they don't encoruage killing the innocent. You will not find any verse that encourages the killing of children and infants. However, so we don't go off topic then you can go start an thread for it and I will answer the questions on there.
The Quran is not a peaceful book. Its perpetuates violence against children, women, against non believers of Islam etc. Jihad is a militaristic term. A lot of the evil things done in war are excused in Islam. The murder of anyone whether they are babies, women and men is wrong and especially just because they have a different belief. And terrorists who in my opinion quote the Quran and Hadiths correctly do exactly as Islam teaches. As Muhammed commanded and did. He was very violent.
 
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billy t

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Stoning women who've committed adultery, Muhammed encouraging his men to molest enslaved women(Abu Dawood 2150, Qur'an 4:24), advocating the killing and crucifixion of others (Qur'an 5:33, Muslim 16:4131), sharia law where women are stoned or beaten, arms are cut off for stealing, people are beaten is all self defence?

“Kill them [unbelievers] wherever you find them… And fight them until there is no more unbelief and worship is for Allah alone” (Quran 2:191-193).

“Strike off their heads and strike from them every fingertip” (Quran 8:12).

“Allah has purchased from the believers their lives and their properties; in exchange for that they will have Paradise. They fight in the cause of Allah, so they slay and are slain” (Quran 9:111).

“Truly Allah loves those who fight in His cause in battle array…” (Quran 61:4)

‘Blessed are you when you persecute,’ (Quran 9:111).

‘Go and kill’ (Quran 47:3-4).

“The Messenger of Allah said: I have been commanded to fight against people till they testify that there is no god but Allah, and that Muhammad is the messenger of Allah” (Sahih Muslim 1:33).
Cool, I will answer each of these points one by one but I encourage you to open a seperate thread if you want to discuss these isuses further. If you want to start a specific thread tackling violence in Islam then that is fine but its kind of going off topic. I feel like this topic is going around in circles at this point. Christians here say that there is a wisdom in what God ordered so its kind of up to those who read the posts to come to their own conclusions. Right, so I will answer each of your points. I will answer each doubt in a seperate post. You have raised multiple points at once so it will require multiple replies.

I will first address stoning of those who commit fornicaiton.

Yes, stoning the adulterer is from Islam. Islamic law looks at what is the overall good for the entire society. Adultery leads to great evil, hence why the punishment is so severe. This is so people take the issue of adultery serious. Anyone who reads articles on Vigilant Citizen can recognize the great evil of fornicaiton that is promoted in a lot of the Satanic music of today. It leads to confusion over children not knowing who their fathers are and the spread of sexually transmitted diseases and leads to lack of trust between the spouses, divorce, along with numerous other evils.

The punishment for adultery is not only for woman but men. The only reason to mention woman only is to appeal to peoples emotions. This punishment also has conditions to it. These are the conditions.

1) There must be 4 witnesses. If there are not enough witnesses then they will be lashed for spreading lies.
2) The witnesses must see the male member physically entering the woman. Its not enough to just see them kissing and the like, no this is not enough.

Based on this, it becomes evident that it is very hard to carry this punishment out, hence there are almost no incidents of stoning being recorded in the islamic history books. Any case were it did occur was because a person admitted to it and chose to be stoned to cleanse themselves of the sin. There is an incident of a lady who committed adultery and came to Prophet Muhamamd salAllahu 'alaiyhi wasallam to be stoned and he kept making excuses for her and saying may'be it was like this or like that and so on. This shows that the Prophet salAllahu 'alaiyhi wasallam did not want to stone people like non Muslims claim.

Now here is the cherry on top. The Bible also prescribes death for adultery. In Leviticus 20.10 it says, "“If a man commits adultery with the wife of his neighbor, both the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death".
 

billy t

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Stoning women who've committed adultery, Muhammed encouraging his men to molest enslaved women(Abu Dawood 2150, Qur'an 4:24), advocating the killing and crucifixion of others (Qur'an 5:33, Muslim 16:4131), sharia law where women are stoned or beaten, arms are cut off for stealing, people are beaten is all self defence?

“Kill them [unbelievers] wherever you find them… And fight them until there is no more unbelief and worship is for Allah alone” (Quran 2:191-193).

“Strike off their heads and strike from them every fingertip” (Quran 8:12).

“Allah has purchased from the believers their lives and their properties; in exchange for that they will have Paradise. They fight in the cause of Allah, so they slay and are slain” (Quran 9:111).

“Truly Allah loves those who fight in His cause in battle array…” (Quran 61:4)

‘Blessed are you when you persecute,’ (Quran 9:111).

‘Go and kill’ (Quran 47:3-4).

“The Messenger of Allah said: I have been commanded to fight against people till they testify that there is no god but Allah, and that Muhammad is the messenger of Allah” (Sahih Muslim 1:33).
"Strike off their heads and strike from them every fingertip".

The verse is an order from God to the angels to strike the necks of the enemy army who were fighting the Muslims. The heads of the enemies came off even though the Muslim soldiers did not attack them. This was a miracle from God that the Angels fought the disbelievers and supported the Muslim army. If you want more nararations on these incidents I can cite them but this in itself is a long topic. But yeah, again it shows you didn't understand the verse and are likely just parroting an anti-Islam site.
 

billy t

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Stoning women who've committed adultery, Muhammed encouraging his men to molest enslaved women(Abu Dawood 2150, Qur'an 4:24), advocating the killing and crucifixion of others (Qur'an 5:33, Muslim 16:4131), sharia law where women are stoned or beaten, arms are cut off for stealing, people are beaten is all self defence?

“Kill them [unbelievers] wherever you find them… And fight them until there is no more unbelief and worship is for Allah alone” (Quran 2:191-193).

“Strike off their heads and strike from them every fingertip” (Quran 8:12).

“Allah has purchased from the believers their lives and their properties; in exchange for that they will have Paradise. They fight in the cause of Allah, so they slay and are slain” (Quran 9:111).

“Truly Allah loves those who fight in His cause in battle array…” (Quran 61:4)

‘Blessed are you when you persecute,’ (Quran 9:111).

‘Go and kill’ (Quran 47:3-4).

“The Messenger of Allah said: I have been commanded to fight against people till they testify that there is no god but Allah, and that Muhammad is the messenger of Allah” (Sahih Muslim 1:33).
You claim that Islam encourages molesting slave woman. Another lie. In war there are going to be captives. It is not allowed to kill woman and children therefore something has to be done. They can either 1) be set free. This is problematic for many obvious reasons in a military situation. 2) They can be killed. Islam does not allow us to kill woman and children who are non combatants in miltary expeditions. So, this leaves only one alternative which is for a man to take care of them. This is what God prescribed. Other armies r*pe and share the woman amongst each other. Islam does not allow this instead one man takes care of them.

It is not allowed to r*pe those woman or to treat them unjustly. They must be feed the same food and clothed the same. Do you understand this? It is not allowed to eat different food from the servant. Slave is an incorrect translation. They are not slaves. The Prohpet salAllahu 'alaiyhi wasallam forbade Muslims from calling them slaves. Yes, it is allowed for the man to have intercourse with a female servant but not against her will. This is allowed because it is easy for a man to fall into sin if he is in a servants precense and they are attracted to each other. Islam does not forbid this and the scholars have consensus that this is allowed but NOT against their will. So, for you to use the word "molest" is just unjust, dishonest and shows you have no integrity in what you are posting. Once somebody lies it hard to take the rest of their posts seriously. I will quote the whole hadeeth from Abu Dawood which is authentic. Now, I want you to tell me where the word "molest" is.

Abu Sa’id Al Khudri said “The Apostle of Allaah(ﷺ) sent a military expedition to Awtas on the occasion of the battle of Hunain. They met their enemy and fought with them. They defeated them and took them captives. Some of the Companions of Apostle of Allaah (ﷺ) were reluctant to have relations with the female captives because of their pagan husbands. So, Allaah the exalted sent down the Qur’anic verse “And all married women (are forbidden) unto you save those (captives) whom your right hand posses.” This is to say that they are lawful for them when they complete their waiting period.

حَدَّثَنَا عُبَيْدُ اللَّهِ بْنُ عُمَرَ بْنِ مَيْسَرَةَ، حَدَّثَنَا يَزِيدُ بْنُ زُرَيْعٍ، حَدَّثَنَا سَعِيدٌ، عَنْ قَتَادَةَ، عَنْ صَالِحٍ أَبِي الْخَلِيلِ، عَنْ أَبِي عَلْقَمَةَ الْهَاشِمِيِّ، عَنْ أَبِي سَعِيدٍ الْخُدْرِيِّ، أَنَّ رَسُولَ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم بَعَثَ يَوْمَ حُنَيْنٍ بَعْثًا إِلَى أَوْطَاسٍ فَلَقُوا عَدُوَّهُمْ فَقَاتَلُوهُمْ فَظَهَرُوا عَلَيْهِمْ وَأَصَابُوا لَهُمْ سَبَايَا فَكَأَنَّ أُنَاسًا مِنْ أَصْحَابِ رَسُولِ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم تَحَرَّجُوا مِنْ غِشْيَانِهِنَّ مِنْ أَجْلِ أَزْوَاجِهِنَّ مِنَ الْمُشْرِكِينَ فَأَنْزَلَ اللَّهُ تَعَالَى فِي ذَلِكَ ‏{‏ وَالْمُحْصَنَاتُ مِنَ النِّسَاءِ إِلاَّ مَا مَلَكَتْ أَيْمَانُكُمْ ‏}‏ أَىْ فَهُنَّ لَهُمْ حَلاَلٌ إِذَا انْقَضَتْ عِدَّتُهُنَّ ‏.‏
Grade: Sahih (Al-Albani)
Does it say anything about molestation???!!! The verse maks it permissable to have sexual relation with them. Do you understand the difference between sexual relalatons that a woman agrees to and molestation? The narration says the companions refused. What does this mean? It means the woman wanted to have relations but the man refused! and God allowed it! Do you understand how wrong your understanding is? Read the narration carefully. It does not support your point in fact it opposes it.
 

phipps

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Cool, I will answer each of these points one by one but I encourage you to open a seperate thread if you want to discuss these isuses further. If you want to start a specific thread tackling violence in Islam then that is fine but its kind of going off topic. I feel like this topic is going around in circles at this point. Christians here say that there is a wisdom in what God ordered so its kind of up to those who read the posts to come to their own conclusions. Right, so I will answer each of your points. I will answer each doubt in a seperate post. You have raised multiple points at once so it will require multiple replies.

I will first address stoning of those who commit fornicaiton.

Yes, stoning the adulterer is from Islam. Islamic law looks at what is the overall good for the entire society. Adultery leads to great evil, hence why the punishment is so severe. This is so people take the issue of adultery serious. Anyone who reads articles on Vigilant Citizen can recognize the great evil of fornicaiton that is promoted in a lot of the Satanic music of today. It leads to confusion over children not knowing who their fathers are and the spread of sexually transmitted diseases and leads to lack of trust between the spouses, divorce, along with numerous other evils.

The punishment for adultery is not only for woman but men. The only reason to mention woman only is to appeal to peoples emotions. This punishment also has conditions to it. These are the conditions.

1) There must be 4 witnesses. If there are not enough witnesses then they will be lashed for spreading lies.
2) The witnesses must see the male member physically entering the woman. Its not enough to just see them kissing and the like, no this is not enough.

Based on this, it becomes evident that it is very hard to carry this punishment out, hence there are almost no incidents of stoning being recorded in the islamic history books. Any case were it did occur was because a person admitted to it and chose to be stoned to cleanse themselves of the sin. There is an incident of a lady who committed adultery and came to Prophet Muhamamd salAllahu 'alaiyhi wasallam to be stoned and he kept making excuses for her and saying may'be it was like this or like that and so on. This shows that the Prophet salAllahu 'alaiyhi wasallam did not want to stone people like non Muslims claim.

Now here is the cherry on top. The Bible also prescribes death for adultery. In Leviticus 20.10 it says, "“If a man commits adultery with the wife of his neighbor, both the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death".
I'm not interested in your explanations at all. I believe Islam is a false religion and I keep my distance from it in my life and in these forums. I only came on this thread to defend your complete and utter lies against my God. I wasn't even interested in comparing Islam to Christianity because as far as I am concerned there is no comparison. Only God of the Bible is God, and the Bible is His infallible Word.
 
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