The Bible Teaches Terrorism and Killing Infants

Gnome

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Quoting wikipedia in regard to islam eschatology does not make you smart either... go and do more research and tell me the definitive eschatology of islam...good luck
And so now you're making a genetic fallacy and ignoring the contents of the article. The Qur'an speaks about eschatology (alongside theology and ontology) in almost every Surah of the Qur'an, there are chapters dedicated to the subject within Hadith collections and are hundreds of books written on the subject. Your obvious lack of research cannot be compensated by being a smug smart alack.

I can tell you're not a person who is a good reader if anything, so I would advise you to start small if you actually are going to learn about the subject.


I could link you many things but I would be wasting my time if I didn't first know that you'd actually read them.

Quoting wikipedia in regard to islam eschatology
Why wouldn't I? you did say before:

for muslims are only concerned about the physical death and the material world, and they are totally clueless of the second death (of ‘dead in spirit’ like them) and the spiritual salvation through the grace of God......
Henceforth why I would introduce you to Islamic beliefs on the spiritual realms through the one you emphasis the most there by inference, being heaven. Jannah is heaven.
If you know anything about the Qur'an at all, you would know that the phrase "gardens beneath which rivers flow" crops up quite a few times in the Qur'an, and refers to heaven, the spiritual garden of eden (something both mentioned both in Jewish belief and alluded to in the new testament).
There is a very direct and comprehensive concept of salvation within Islam, one that doesn't contradict the past in the manner that Christianity strongly does.

The concept of salvation in Islam is one's faith and knowledge (as it's something sought out) in God being correlated with the way one acts in this life. The principle of responsibility and accountability of one's actions is very strongly emphasized.

The Qur'an says in Surah 2:62:
"Indeed the faithful, the Jews,the Christians, and the Sabaeans—those of them who have faith in God and the Last Day and act righteously—they shall have their reward near their Lord, and they will have no fear,nor will they grieve."

There are three main realms outside of the physical realm (the universe) of which are believed in Islam. There is Jannah (heaven), there is Barzakh (the intermediary realm, it is likely what Catholicism got it's inspiration for Purgatory from) and Jahannam (hell).


As I've said, which you took no notice of; the concept of belief in God in any theistic religion innately and explicitly means that salvation is attached to said belief. To have a theistic religion where there is no attainment of life, would be anathema, it would be also an absurdity. There is no theistic religion that doesn't believe in some form of salvation.

I advise you read Surah 17 of the Qur'an a few times, you might have a positive realization: https://al-quran.info/#17
 






Axl888

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The concept of salvation in Islam is one's faith and knowledge (as it's something sought out) in God being correlated with the way one acts in this life. The principle of responsibility and accountability of one's actions is very strongly emphasized.
Actually the concept of salvation of islam is by works (good deeds) but ask them or ask yourself (if you are muslim), how much good works you/they need to do to enter heaven?

By the way, islams soteriology and eschatology are all based on judaism and the Gospel with a “twist” courtesy of mohammads imagination and by dictation of a certain angel.
 






Gnome

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Actually the concept of salvation of islam is by works (good deeds)
As you would as a reader of Paul, treat your actions and responsibilities and accountabilities to be a pejorative. It is truly absurd itself because while trying to bash your personal accountability in this life, you also claim to hold moral views and claim that sinning is bad etc. You can't have it both ways.
Whether you like it or not, if our entry into an afterlife depends on us, then what we do in this life is gonna matter, irregardless of your opinion.

Whether you think salvation is defined by faith or "works" (as you term it), it is rather irrelevant to you because it is something that only God knows, not you. If you claim to know this, then you claim to be God.
However though, in the new testament, the epistle of James does give a very solid refutation of your view against "works" (again, as you term it).

how much good works you/they need to do to enter heaven?
That kind of question I would deem a Pharasaic one, in the manner of the kinds of stuff Jesus in the new testament is said to have dealt with.
Such a question is just ridiculous that you think about your personal accountability in this life as merely a checklist.

The Qur'an says in Surah 2:177:
"Piety/righteousness is not to turn your faces to the east or the west; rather, piety/righteousness is [personified by] those who have faith in God and the Last Day, the angels, the Book, and the prophets, and who give their wealth, for the love of Him, to relatives, orphans, the needy, the traveller and the beggar, and for [the freeing of] the slaves, and maintain the prayer and gives charity, and those who fulfill their covenants, when they pledge themselves, and those who are patient in stress and distress, and in the heat of battle. They are the ones who are true [to their covenant], and it is they who are the Godwary."

It is all to do with the heart (qalb) fundamentally.

I think this passage is a good illustration of the way piety is seen in Islam, from the Qur'an in Surah 49:14-17
The Bedouins say, ‘We have faith.’ Say, ‘You do not have faith yet; rather say, “We have submitted (to God), ”for faith has not yet entered into your hearts. Yet if you obey God and His Messenger, He will not stint anything of [the reward of] your deeds. Indeed God is all-forgiving, all-merciful.’
The faithful are only those who have attained faith in God and His Messenger and then have never doubted, and who strive for God's cause with their possessions and their persons.It is they who are the truthful.
Say, ‘Will you inform God about your faith while God knows whatever there is in the heavens and whatever there is in the earth, and God has knowledge of all things?’ They count it as a favour to you that they have submitted to God.

Say, ‘Do not count it as a favour to me your submission to God. Rather it is God who has done you a favour in that He has guided you to faith, should you be truthful.

(if you are muslim)
I'm on the fence about religion but I study it all (religions) and examine what they say and what they claim. I am just someone who knows what they're talking about, who has called you out about your very ridiculous misinterpretations and misunderstandings of Islam, which simply have to be corrected.

By the way, islams soteriology and eschatology are all based on judaism and the Gospel with a “twist” courtesy of mohammads imagination and by dictation of a certain angel.
I don't care about your opinion, that doesn't give you a right to lie about Islam. You are simply very incorrect in the things you're saying.

So first you say that Islam has no eschatology, then you say that Islam's eschatology is based off Judaism and the "Gospel" (so-called) because I demonstrated that it does have a very comprehensive eschatology which doesn't differ too much from what the prior two Abrahamic religions have said regarding eschatology.

courtesy of mohammads imagination and by dictation of a certain angel.
Yes, we get that you're angsty. You still forget that within both the old and new testaments, angelic revelation is still the primary form of revelation. Even with Mt Sinai it is referred to as "the angel of the Lord/YHWH". The new testament itself contains similar kinds of revelations, even by the same angel (like to Zechariah and Elizabeth, to Mary and Joseph, etc) according to the authors of the new testament books.
Muhammad being given revelation (the last big scripture) is in no way a deviation from the trends that the Bible sets out, matter of fact if there is any truth in the Bible at all then one would expect something like Muhammad and the Qur'an to come along (seeing that most of the Bible is more story-like and written from the perspective of people after events coincided).
 






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Daze

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Wow!!! Pretty low. I'm sure that pleases Allah. Time to grow up, my friend.
Pretty low indeed. Imagine if a Christian made a thread, "Jesus saves" and the 3rd post was a Buddhist saying "Dali Lama is all you need", or a stone worshiper saying "you idiot, don't you know that tree out there is our god?" "Only i know the truth because I've been granted divine powers"...

In a thread titled "Muslim converts", why don't you tell me what business he has to even be in it? Let alone troll it from the very beginning. I for one am sick of that garbage. Imagine if you seen a Muslim attacking every thread where a Christian tried to share something? You don't, its ALWAYS the other way around. Grow up indeed. Why don't you sit back and look whose acting like a child?

That "Christian troll" fits him perfectly in so many of his posts, for petes sake alot of his replies to others on these boards are literally "shut up". Its indefensible. Really drops you to his level to side with him.
 






Toulouse

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Pretty low indeed. Imagine if a Christian made a thread, "Jesus saves" and the 3rd post was a Buddhist saying "Dali Lama is all you need", or a stone worshiper saying "you idiot, don't you know that tree out there is our god?" "Only i know the truth because I've been granted divine powers"...

In a thread titled "Muslim converts", why don't you tell me what business he has to even be in it? Let alone troll it from the very beginning. I for one am sick of that garbage. Imagine if you seen a Muslim attacking every thread where a Christian tried to share something? You don't, its ALWAYS the other way around. Grow up indeed. Why don't you sit back and look whose acting like a child?

That "Christian troll" fits him perfectly in so many of his posts, for petes sake alot of his replies to others on these boards are literally "shut up". Its indefensible. Really drops you to his level to side with him.
Regardless of one's perspective, or who's attacking whom, it's pretty base.
 






TokiEl

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That "Christian troll" fits him perfectly in so many of his posts, for petes sake alot of his replies to others on these boards are literally "shut up". Its indefensible. Really drops you to his level to side with him.
U shut up.
 






Tidal

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Topic- The Bible Teaches Terrorism and Killing Infants
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That's just ancient Old T history.. :p
Here's the old 'Hit List' , but I don't know any Christian who goes round killing 'em-



PS- I had an email correspondence with a medium woman on and off for many years but I never burnt her at the stake, I eventually got fed up of her silliness and simply stopped answering her mails..:)
 






Toulouse

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Messages
279
Topic- The Bible Teaches Terrorism and Killing Infants
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


That's just ancient Old T history.. :p
Here's the old 'Hit List' , but I don't know any Christian who goes round killing 'em-



PS- I had an email correspondence with a medium woman on and off for many years but I never burnt her at the stake, I eventually got fed up of her silliness and simply stopped answering her mails..:)
I've known smalls and mediums, :cool: no larges though...a little levity for all those puckered sphincters...;)
 






Axl888

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Jul 29, 2019
Messages
298
As you would as a reader of Paul, treat your actions and responsibilities and accountabilities to be a pejorative. It is truly absurd itself because while trying to bash your personal accountability in this life, you also claim to hold moral views and claim that sinning is bad etc. You can't have it both ways.
Whether you like it or not, if our entry into an afterlife depends on us, then what we do in this life is gonna matter, irregardless of your opinion.

Whether you think salvation is defined by faith or "works" (as you term it), it is rather irrelevant to you because it is something that only God knows, not you. If you claim to know this, then you claim to be God.
However though, in the new testament, the epistle of James does give a very solid refutation of your view against "works" (again, as you term it).



That kind of question I would deem a Pharasaic one, in the manner of the kinds of stuff Jesus in the new testament is said to have dealt with.
Such a question is just ridiculous that you think about your personal accountability in this life as merely a checklist.

The Qur'an says in Surah 2:177:
"Piety/righteousness is not to turn your faces to the east or the west; rather, piety/righteousness is [personified by] those who have faith in God and the Last Day, the angels, the Book, and the prophets, and who give their wealth, for the love of Him, to relatives, orphans, the needy, the traveller and the beggar, and for [the freeing of] the slaves, and maintain the prayer and gives charity, and those who fulfill their covenants, when they pledge themselves, and those who are patient in stress and distress, and in the heat of battle. They are the ones who are true [to their covenant], and it is they who are the Godwary."

It is all to do with the heart (qalb) fundamentally.

I think this passage is a good illustration of the way piety is seen in Islam, from the Qur'an in Surah 49:14-17
The Bedouins say, ‘We have faith.’ Say, ‘You do not have faith yet; rather say, “We have submitted (to God), ”for faith has not yet entered into your hearts. Yet if you obey God and His Messenger, He will not stint anything of [the reward of] your deeds. Indeed God is all-forgiving, all-merciful.’
The faithful are only those who have attained faith in God and His Messenger and then have never doubted, and who strive for God's cause with their possessions and their persons.It is they who are the truthful.
Say, ‘Will you inform God about your faith while God knows whatever there is in the heavens and whatever there is in the earth, and God has knowledge of all things?’ They count it as a favour to you that they have submitted to God.

Say, ‘Do not count it as a favour to me your submission to God. Rather it is God who has done you a favour in that He has guided you to faith, should you be truthful.



I'm on the fence about religion but I study it all (religions) and examine what they say and what they claim. I am just someone who knows what they're talking about, who has called you out about your very ridiculous misinterpretations and misunderstandings of Islam, which simply have to be corrected.



I don't care about your opinion, that doesn't give you a right to lie about Islam. You are simply very incorrect in the things you're saying.

So first you say that Islam has no eschatology, then you say that Islam's eschatology is based off Judaism and the "Gospel" (so-called) because I demonstrated that it does have a very comprehensive eschatology which doesn't differ too much from what the prior two Abrahamic religions have said regarding eschatology.



Yes, we get that you're angsty. You still forget that within both the old and new testaments, angelic revelation is still the primary form of revelation. Even with Mt Sinai it is referred to as "the angel of the Lord/YHWH". The new testament itself contains similar kinds of revelations, even by the same angel (like to Zechariah and Elizabeth, to Mary and Joseph, etc) according to the authors of the new testament books.
Muhammad being given revelation (the last big scripture) is in no way a deviation from the trends that the Bible sets out, matter of fact if there is any truth in the Bible at all then one would expect something like Muhammad and the Qur'an to come along (seeing that most of the Bible is more story-like and written from the perspective of people after events coincided).
When did i say islam has no eschatology? what i am actually saying in my original post which you sadly misunderstood the context is that muslims do not understand or refuse to understand the true way of salvation which is through faith in Jesus Christ...hence they are clueless like yourself.

And as i said, islam is just a crude mixed of paganism (kaaba worship), judaism and of Gospel with added imagination of mohammad and perhaps dictations of a certain “angel”.
 






Toulouse

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When did i say islam has no eschatology? what i am actually saying in my original post which you sadly misunderstood the context is that muslims do not understand or refuse to understand the true way of salvation which is through faith in Jesus Christ...hence they are clueless like yourself.

And as i said, islam is just a crude mixed of paganism (kaaba worship), judaism and of Gospel with added imagination of mohammad and perhaps dictations of a certain “angel”.
Your use of the word "crude" is a little harsh, and I would ask you to tone it down a little. However, and I mean this with ALL DUE RESPECT for my Muslim brothers and sisters, we're all God's children, I have always believed that Islam is a combination of the religions of the region at the time. His description of Jerusalem from a "vision" could have come from his many encounters as a trader/traveler.
 






meximonk

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You will find no verse in the Qur'aan that encourages its followers to kill woman and children. Killing non combatants in war is strictly prohibited. The Qur'aan has many verses prohibiting the pagan arabs from burying female infants alive yet the Bible supports killing woman and children. Here is the evidence.

1 Samuel 15.3. "Thus says the Lord of hosts, ‘I have noted what Amalek did to Israel din opposing them on the way when they came up out of Egypt. 3 Now go and strike Amalek and devote to destruction all that they have. Do not spare them, fbut kill both man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey".

Christian author George Boyd has a book called God at War wherein he tries to defend this verse by saying that infants were killed because if they grew up they may worship demons and fall into idol worship. In others words the Bible supports terrorism and Christian authors are also in support of it and try to justify it the same way ISIS does.

And what did the sheep and camels do wrong??? Wow just wow.
Are you a supreme being? Do you know all, hear all, and see all?


"38 Then the Lord answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said,
2 Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge?
3 Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me.
4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;
7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?
8 Or who shut up the sea with doors, when it brake forth, as if it had issued out of the womb?
9 When I made the cloud the garment thereof, and thick darkness a swaddlingband for it,
10 And brake up for it my decreed place, and set bars and doors,
11 And said, Hitherto shalt thou come, but no further: and here shall thy proud waves be stayed?
12 Hast thou commanded the morning since thy days; and caused the dayspring to know his place;
13 That it might take hold of the ends of the earth, that the wicked might be shaken out of it?
14 It is turned as clay to the seal; and they stand as a garment.
15 And from the wicked their light is withholden, and the high arm shall be broken.
16 Hast thou entered into the springs of the sea? or hast thou walked in the search of the depth?
17 Have the gates of death been opened unto thee? or hast thou seen the doors of the shadow of death?
18 Hast thou perceived the breadth of the earth? declare if thou knowest it all.
19 Where is the way where light dwelleth? and as for darkness, where is the place thereof,
20 That thou shouldest take it to the bound thereof, and that thou shouldest know the paths to the house thereof?
21 Knowest thou it, because thou wast then born? or because the number of thy days is great?
22 Hast thou entered into the treasures of the snow? or hast thou seen the treasures of the hail,
23 Which I have reserved against the time of trouble, against the day of battle and war?
24 By what way is the light parted, which scattereth the east wind upon the earth?
25 Who hath divided a watercourse for the overflowing of waters, or a way for the lightning of thunder;
26 To cause it to rain on the earth, where no man is; on the wilderness, wherein there is no man;
27 To satisfy the desolate and waste ground; and to cause the bud of the tender herb to spring forth?
28 Hath the rain a father? or who hath begotten the drops of dew?
29 Out of whose womb came the ice? and the hoary frost of heaven, who hath gendered it?
30 The waters are hid as with a stone, and the face of the deep is frozen.
31 Canst thou bind the sweet influences of Pleiades, or loose the bands of Orion?
32 Canst thou bring forth Mazzaroth in his season? or canst thou guide Arcturus with his sons?
33 Knowest thou the ordinances of heaven? canst thou set the dominion thereof in the earth?
34 Canst thou lift up thy voice to the clouds, that abundance of waters may cover thee?
35 Canst thou send lightnings, that they may go and say unto thee, Here we are?
36 Who hath put wisdom in the inward parts? or who hath given understanding to the heart?
37 Who can number the clouds in wisdom? or who can stay the bottles of heaven,
38 When the dust groweth into hardness, and the clods cleave fast together?
39 Wilt thou hunt the prey for the lion? or fill the appetite of the young lions,
40 When they couch in their dens, and abide in the covert to lie in wait?
41 Who provideth for the raven his food? when his young ones cry unto God, they wander for lack of meat.

39 Knowest thou the time when the wild goats of the rock bring forth? or canst thou mark when the hinds do calve?
2 Canst thou number the months that they fulfil? or knowest thou the time when they bring forth?
3 They bow themselves, they bring forth their young ones, they cast out their sorrows.
4 Their young ones are in good liking, they grow up with corn; they go forth, and return not unto them.
5 Who hath sent out the wild ass free? or who hath loosed the bands of the wild ass?
6 Whose house I have made the wilderness, and the barren land his dwellings.
7 He scorneth the multitude of the city, neither regardeth he the crying of the driver.
8 The range of the mountains is his pasture, and he searcheth after every green thing.
9 Will the unicorn be willing to serve thee, or abide by thy crib?
10 Canst thou bind the unicorn with his band in the furrow? or will he harrow the valleys after thee?
11 Wilt thou trust him, because his strength is great? or wilt thou leave thy labour to him?
12 Wilt thou believe him, that he will bring home thy seed, and gather it into thy barn?
13 Gavest thou the goodly wings unto the peacocks? or wings and feathers unto the ostrich?
14 Which leaveth her eggs in the earth, and warmeth them in dust,
15 And forgetteth that the foot may crush them, or that the wild beast may break them.
16 She is hardened against her young ones, as though they were not her's: her labour is in vain without fear;
17 Because God hath deprived her of wisdom, neither hath he imparted to her understanding.
18 What time she lifteth up herself on high, she scorneth the horse and his rider.
19 Hast thou given the horse strength? hast thou clothed his neck with thunder?
20 Canst thou make him afraid as a grasshopper? the glory of his nostrils is terrible.
21 He paweth in the valley, and rejoiceth in his strength: he goeth on to meet the armed men.
22 He mocketh at fear, and is not affrighted; neither turneth he back from the sword.
23 The quiver rattleth against him, the glittering spear and the shield.
24 He swalloweth the ground with fierceness and rage: neither believeth he that it is the sound of the trumpet.
25 He saith among the trumpets, Ha, ha; and he smelleth the battle afar off, the thunder of the captains, and the shouting.
26 Doth the hawk fly by thy wisdom, and stretch her wings toward the south?
27 Doth the eagle mount up at thy command, and make her nest on high?
28 She dwelleth and abideth on the rock, upon the crag of the rock, and the strong place.
29 From thence she seeketh the prey, and her eyes behold afar off.
30 Her young ones also suck up blood: and where the slain are, there is she."

- Job, Chapters 38 & 39 (KJV), after another man asked a similar question.

"2 Shall he that contendeth with the Almighty instruct him? he that reproveth God, let him answer it."
- Job, Chapters 40:2 (KJV), after another man asked a similar question.
 






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