The Bible Says Jesus Is Not God - (Shocking Evidence)

Vytas

Star
Joined
Jun 29, 2017
Messages
1,904
Being respectful to any religion besides Christianity is idiocy and stupidity. All are Pagan and none deserve any respect at all - ZERO. I detest all other religions and have ZERO respect for any of them. I even detest Talmudic Judaism. Why, because Christ detested it, as He said in His tirade against any traditions that make the Word of God of none effect. I detest Catholicism for exactly the same reason. All religions except true Biblical Christianity are pond scum. Surely, every real Christian feels the same way. If not, they are failures.
 

TokiEl

Superstar
Joined
Dec 13, 2017
Messages
7,239
If Jesus is God, and Mary is Jesus' mother, is Mary the mother of God?
Mary is not the mother of God.but the mother of the biological body inwhere God dwelt while on earth.


Some may say how can God spend about 33 years in a human body when He is in charge of a huge universe ? Yes well there is more to God than just Jesus as God is really an eternal Threefold being.

Human beings are also threefold beings but some still insist that God is Not.
 

Red Sky at Morning

Superstar
Joined
Mar 15, 2017
Messages
13,933
Mary is not the mother of God.but the mother of the biological body inwhere God dwelt while on earth.


Some may say how can God spend about 33 years in a human body when He is in charge of a huge universe ? Yes well there is more to God than just Jesus as God is really an eternal Threefold being.

Human beings are also threefold beings but some still insist that God is Not.
I found this an interesting concept...

Superposition and entanglement? Pardon?

It’s OK to be a bit baffled by these concepts, since we don’t experience them in our day-to-day lives. It’s only when you look at the tiniest quantum particles – atoms, electrons, photons and the like – that you see intriguing things like superposition and entanglement.

Superposition is essentially the ability of a quantum system to be in multiple states at the same time — that is, something can be “here” and “there,” or “up” and “down” at the same time.

Entanglement is an extremely strong correlation that exists between quantum particles — so strong, in fact, that two or more quantum particles can be inextricably linked in perfect unison, even if separated by great distances. The particles remain perfectly correlated even if separated by great distances. The particles are so intrinsically connected, they can be said to “dance” in instantaneous, perfect unison, even when placed at opposite ends of the universe. This seemingly impossible connection inspired Einstein to describe entanglement as “spooky action at a distance.”

https://uwaterloo.ca/institute-for-quantum-computing/quantum-computing-101
 

TokiEl

Superstar
Joined
Dec 13, 2017
Messages
7,239
In blasphemy indeed are those that say that Allah is Christ the son of Mary. Say: "Who then hath the least power against Allah, if His will were to destroy Christ the son of Mary, his mother, and all every - one that is on the earth? For to Allah belongeth the dominion of the heavens and the earth, and all that is between. He createth what He pleaseth. For Allah hath power over all things."

-Surah Al-Ma'idah [5:17]

Allah is one. Not three, not four, not five. Not human, not cow, not statue. God is one. The Quran calls humanity to monotheism. The prophets called the human race towards monotheism.

Of the mass of people, unfortunately, most are disbelievers.

"And [for] their saying, "Indeed, we have killed the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, the messenger of Allah ." And they did not kill him, nor did they crucify him; but [another] was made to resemble him to them. And indeed, those who differ over it are in doubt about it. They have no knowledge of it except the following of assumption. And they did not kill him, for certain." - Surah An-Nisa [4:157]


Bullshite !
 

cfowen

Established
Joined
Feb 21, 2018
Messages
311
Some may say how can God spend about 33 years in a human body when He is in charge of a huge universe ? Yes well there is more to God than just Jesus as God is really an eternal Threefold being.

Human beings are also threefold beings but some still insist that God is Not.
Gen 2:7, "And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Man is a twofold being. From this verse and many others, we see that, from the (1) dust of the ground=body and (2) the breath of life=spirit, man became a living soul. So, Body + Spirit = Living Soul. Remove either body or spirit and man becomes a dead soul. Man having a soul, is a belief propagated from pagan origins, such as Plato. Man IS a soul. Man DOES NOT have a soul. Another common lie told by denominational preachers. Along with the biggest lie, Hell, the phony idea of man's soul going to heaven upon death sells a lot of tickets.

More than 1500 souls died on the Titanic. Where the word soul appears in or out of scripture, you can usually substitute "life" or "person" for it. The Hebrew word for soul is also used for animals, where it is often translated "creature." See "creature" in Gen 9:10.
 
Last edited:

Kung Fu

Superstar
Joined
Mar 24, 2017
Messages
5,087
Oh ok. Have you ever been an islamic nation? Not peaceful at all.
You're a 17 year old kid who lives in the US, watches a lot of porn (these are your words from the porn thread), and masturbates to it and probably rarely leaves his room because he can't get his one hand off the keyboard and the other out of his pants but yet are asking others if they have been to an Islamic nation.

What a time to be alive.
 

Serveto

Star
Joined
Apr 20, 2017
Messages
1,043
... The Son or Word is God ...
If X = Z
and Y = X's mother
is Y the mother of Z?
If not, why not?
Mary is not the mother of God.but the mother of the biological body inwhere God dwelt while on earth.
In other words, X does not equal Z.

We probably need to advance from Algebra to the Set Theory of calculus, at this point in our catechism, to better understand and explain.

Are you saying that God was incarnate in Jesus, but that there is some part of Jesus, namely his body, which was not "consubstantial" with God?
 

TokiEl

Superstar
Joined
Dec 13, 2017
Messages
7,239
Gen 2:7, "And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Man is a twofold being. From this verse and many others, we see that, from the (1) dust of the ground=body and (2) the breath of life=spirit, man became a living soul. So, Body + Spirit = Living Soul. Remove either body or spirit and man becomes a dead soul. Man having a soul, is a belief propagated from pagan origins, such as Plato. Man IS a soul. Man DOES NOT have a soul. Another common lie told by denominational preachers. Along with the biggest lie, Hell, the phony idea of man's soul going to heaven upon death sells a lot of tickets.

More than 1500 souls died on the Titanic. Where the word soul appears in or out of scripture, you can usually substitute "life" or "person" for it. The Hebrew word for soul is also used for animals, where it is often translated "creature." See "creature" in Gen 9:10.

Hebrews 4 12"For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart."
 

Red Sky at Morning

Superstar
Joined
Mar 15, 2017
Messages
13,933
In other words, X does not equal Z.

We probably need to advance from Algebra to the Set Theory of calculus, at this point in our catechism, to better understand and explain.

Are you saying that God was incarnate in Jesus, but that there is some part of Jesus, namely his body, which was not "consubstantial" with God?
Serious question...

Given that God is reputed to have attributes we can sometimes only understand by way of our own limitations, does the lack of an everyday example of how God becomes incarnate really surprise you?

What about "Before Abraham was, I AM?" Quite a thing for a thirty something to say, two thousand years later?

So

If Jesus "was" before Abraham, and yet was of Abrahams line, was Jesus his own Great (xN) grandfather?

If not, why not?
 

TokiEl

Superstar
Joined
Dec 13, 2017
Messages
7,239
In other words, X does not equal Z.

We probably need to advance from Algebra to the Set Theory of calculus, at this point in our catechism, to better understand and explain.

Are you saying that God was incarnate in Jesus, but that there is some part of Jesus, namely his body, which was not "consubstantial" with God?
You seem to equate God with yourself.

But you would not exist if an egg from your mom did not get fertilized by a sperm from your dad.

For God to atone with His blood for our crimes He needed a human body where an egg from Mary was fertilized by the Father.

Not in a sexual way of course as coarse minds may think but miracously.
 

Serveto

Star
Joined
Apr 20, 2017
Messages
1,043
You seem to equate God with yourself.
On the contrary, I am trying to understand how it is that Christians equate Jesus with God. I neither affirm nor deny the proposition because I think the Bible contains plenty of ambiguities on the subject and I am still studying the matter.


I wonder, though, how some of the Protestants in this thread would have reacted to a thread title, and video in the op by a Muslim, if it had said: "Bible Says Mary is the Mother of God." As far as I am concerned, if the Bible doesn't say it, it certainly at times implies it (hence, historically, this dispute and controversy within Christendom between using the terms Christotokos and Theotokos). Moreover, I find it interesting that there seems to be some sort of spiritually instinctive part of Protestants which, though they are willing to ascribe a son to God, as the Muslims put it, seem nevertheless reluctant, at best, to give him a mother.
 
Last edited:

Red Sky at Morning

Superstar
Joined
Mar 15, 2017
Messages
13,933
On the contrary, I am trying to understand how it is that Christians equate Jesus with God. I neither affirm nor deny the proposition because I think the Bible contains plenty of ambiguities on the subject and I am still studying the matter.

I wonder, though, how some of the Protestants in this thread would have reacted to a thread title, and video in the op by a Muslim, if it had said: "Bible Says Mary is the Mother of God." As far as I am concerned, if the Bible doesn't say it, it certainly at times implies it (hence, historically, this dispute and controversy within Christendom between using the terms Christotokos and Theotokos). Moreover, I find it interesting that there seems to be some sort of spiritually instinctive part of Protestants which, though they are willing to ascribe a son to God, as the Muslims put it, they seem reluctant, at best, to give him a mother.
It is impossible to provide a simplistic answer to this question, Serv, as the incarnation is a unique event. All parallels will be unsatisfactory.

Perhaps the closest unsatisfactory parallel I thought of recently was the film "avatar". Our hero was pre-existing before entering the world. He was "made flesh", but this still doesn't get around the question of why Jesus had a mother.

Again, wrestling with the issue, how would God become incarnate and therefore be able to "lay his hand" on both human and divine understanding without being born of a woman?

Could you come up with a better solution for Job's dilemma?

Job 9:33

Nor is there any mediator between us,
Who may lay his hand on us both.
.
 

Vytas

Star
Joined
Jun 29, 2017
Messages
1,904
As I understand, according to the orthodox dogma, Jesus' body was not before Abraham. Thus, without a body, one might be a sort of progenitor, of sorts, but not grandfather as we understand and use the word. The relationship between Jesus and Mary is quite other to that, and the dogma says that Jesus, or God the Son, is both human and divine, not 50/50 but 100%. That means that he is at once fully human and fully divine. He also has a mother.
He wasn't fully divine when he was a human, and he will never be human again, so im not sure we even can say that...Certainly not *is*
 

Serveto

Star
Joined
Apr 20, 2017
Messages
1,043
Perhaps the closest unsatisfactory parallel I thought of recently was the film "avatar". Our hero was pre-existing before entering the world. He was "made flesh", but this still doesn't get around the question of why Jesus had a mother.
I don't expect the impossible from anybody, including a perfect parallel, but, as I see it, many are, though by no means equal to Jesus, of course, nevertheless still heroic in the "avatar" sense. I think, following @TokiEl's logic, or as I am thus far understanding and interpreting that logic, just as Mary is not Jesus' mother, neither is your dad your father. That, it seems to me, is one reason why Jesus said:


"And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven."
(Matthew 23:9)

As I understand, according to the orthodox dogma, Jesus' body was not before Abraham. Thus, without a body, one might be a sort of progenitor, of sorts, but not grandfather as we understand and use the word. The relationship between Jesus and Mary is quite other to that, and the dogma says that Jesus, or God the Son, is both human and divine, not 50/50 but 100%. That means that he is at once fully human and fully divine. He also has a mother.
He wasn't fully divine when he was a human, and he will never be human again, so im not sure we even can say that...Certainly not *is*
I think that if one takes the position that Jesus is not "consubstantial" with God, that is to say fully human and fully divine, then one is outside Trinitarian doctrinal orthodoxy. The dogma is complicated, and sometimes Christians are heretics without even being aware. For instance, if one says that God died on the cross, and if one doesn't specify God the Son, one is guilty of the heresy of 'patripassionism,' or something like that. I am not inventing this stuff: I am only reporting. It's Christian history. For some reason, and I am not quite sure why, I find it all so very interesting.
 
Last edited:

Vytas

Star
Joined
Jun 29, 2017
Messages
1,904
I think that if one takes the position that Jesus is not "consubstantial" with God, that is to say fully human and fully divine, then one is outside Trinitarian doctrinal orthodoxy. The dogma is complicated, and sometimes Christians are heretics without even being aware. For instance, if one says that God died on the cross, and if one doesn't specify God the Son, one is guilty of the heresy of 'patripassionism,' or something like that. I am not inventing this stuff: I am only reporting. It's Christian history :cool: . For some reason, and I am not quite sure why, I find it all so very interesting.
Oh i know reason why you find it interesting, because you endlessly entertained and amused by it :) it's ok though...I can understand why.
Consubstantial... you always make me google words...Well im proud new heretic then, if that is decided by so called church authorities i couldn't care less, as long as bible confirm what i say.
 
Joined
Dec 30, 2017
Messages
1,709
You're a 17 year old kid who lives in the US, watches a lot of porn (these are your words from the porn thread), and masturbates to it and probably rarely leaves his room because he can't get his one hand off the keyboard and the other out of his pants but yet are asking others if they have been to an Islamic nation.

What a time to be alive.
Lol.
 

Red Sky at Morning

Superstar
Joined
Mar 15, 2017
Messages
13,933
I don't expect the impossible from anybody, including a perfect parallel, but, as I see it, many are, though by no means equal to Jesus, of course, nevertheless still heroic in the "avatar" sense. I think, following @TokiEl's logic, or as I am thus far understanding and interpreting that logic, just as Mary is not Jesus' mother, neither is your dad your father. That, it seems to me, is one reason why Jesus said:

"And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven."




I think that if one takes the position that Jesus is not "consubstantial" with God, that is to say fully human and fully divine, then one is outside Trinitarian doctrinal orthodoxy. The dogma is complicated, and sometimes Christians are heretics without even being aware. For instance, if one says that God died on the cross, and if one doesn't specify God the Son, one is guilty of the heresy of 'patripassionism,' or something like that. I am not inventing this stuff: I am only reporting. It's Christian history :cool: . For some reason, and I am not quite sure why, I find it all so very interesting.
A lot of this curiosity reminds me of what it must be like to be a child of a great inventor trying to discribe to his classmates what his father does. The general idea might be right, but not the precision. How much moreso with the creator?

Perhaps the young chap might sometimes do well to go with what his father says? There may well be more to know, but has our small enquirer the capacity to process it?

Of course I'm just paraphrasing the words of Paul in 1 Corinthians 13

11When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. 12For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.
 
Last edited:
Top