The Bible Is Very Edited

Red Sky at Morning

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Jung was the arguably wayward son of a Lutheran minister who devised a very interesting theory. That theory has currency because it helps explain how it is that cultures and civilizations, seemingly far removed from each other, can still have mythologies, beliefs, etc., with essentially common meanings and motifs. Another decidedly wayward, because avowedly anti-Christian, son of a Lutheran minister, Frederich Nietzsche, a master of Greek philology and fierce critic of St. Paul, claimed that Christianity, for instance, is "Platonism for the masses." As I said in another thread, some apostate stories are interesting, including those of ex-Christians.:D

At any rate, the largely unresolved issue, to my mind, is the difference between "imitation" and "replication."


Well, articulately said, but some things, to me, are not quite so black and white: paradox is found in nature, and certainly in the scriptures. For instance, though plenty of people would have us accept that Judaism and Christianity fit together as hand in glove, the latter being the "fulfillment" of the former, those two religions have, speaking doctrinally, been at war for 2,000 years.
I was thinking about your response and I got to musing about a parallel universe where J.R.R Tolkien had written the first two books of the Lord of the Rings series, with people eagerly awaiting the conclusion.

Imagine that a number of years passed and Tolkien himself was long gone, without concluding his master work. Christopher Tolkien suddenly released a book called "The Return of the King", and claims his father had penned it.

The readership is split!

Some people claim that the proposed final work contains many elements of the first two books and brings the threads together to a conclusion only the true author could have foreseen. Others pour scorn on the publication and claim that either it was only intended as a two part work, or else is only properly understood in the light of another book by a different author...
 
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Red Sky at Morning

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God has been having his servants updating our english language through the years because of Satans poisoning us through, FOOD, through water & beverages like water. He is far more capable of having his scholars updating bibles to our prsemt time. Because the English language is changing all the time! I believe God is keeping us up with the times because over time the meaning of words change.
What are your feelings on the NKJV? That's my favourite so go easy on me ;-)
 

Red Sky at Morning

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The NKJV is a better upgraded version. I think people need to trade in their old king james versions to the update english vetsions since we do not talk like shakespeare old english anymore.
I think language can prevent you understanding what is being said if you are culturally and linguistically separate from the version. I studied Shakespeare but I still wouldn't say it was "easy reading"!!!

I think it would be fair to say that the message of the Bible is spoken throughout, so even if a few verses have their meanings diminished or diverted by someones paraphrase, people can still understand the message and God can use it.

A modern paraphrase can give a good overview to a new reader, but I think when you get closer to individual verses, a good word for word translation, or better still, delving into the original languages and meanings is often a treasure chest of knowledge. That's why I opted for the NKJV.

I posted up a thread ages ago which you might find interesting.

https://vigilantcitizenforums.com/threads/deceit-the-vatican-and-an-ancient-codex.393/
 

floss

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I agree, its too bad KJVO are ignorant and oblivious to have falliable their KJV is. I threw mine out years ago. My favourite translations are the ESV, NASB, NLT, NKJV and last but not least, the NIV and yes, I use them all. My favourite website is Biblehub. You can check out all the different translations and see that the other translations say it far better than that outdated KJV.
Can you lose your salvation?
 

floss

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Only God knows the answer to that questio. There are scriptures that do indicate that your name could be blotted out from the book of life (Psalms 69:28), (Revelation 3:5)(Deuteronomy 29:20). I can’t think of anymore at the moment.
Sorry I’m on my phone so I can’t quote scriptures, but I believe these new Bible version is the reason why many Christian think they can lose salvation when in fact (KJV) stated you are saved and sealed until the day of Redemption. Nothing can separate you from the Father.

Many new Bibke version stated that you are “being save” vs “saved” (KJV). The spirits of these new bible version is causing you to NOT have eternal security.

If your children committed grave sins, are they no longer your children?
 

Red Sky at Morning

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Eternal Security is an issue people can easily get into a twist over as there are so many things which bring to bear on the question. We have judgement of fruit vs judgement of person, parables laid alongside people at various periods of God's dealing with mankind, God's foreknowledge etc etc. In some ways, it's a topic much bigger than individual verses.

It is a complex study, and for my part, I don't believe that a born again, true believer can never lose their salvation, though they might waste their lives and see their works burned up like worthless straw one day, as well as spend their lives offending their own conciences and grieving the Holy Spirit with their actions.

As regards KJV, I read that and the NKJV because I am suspicious of versions that are based on Westcott & Hort (AV) and the Codex Alexandrinus, Vaticanus and Sinaiaticus rather than Textus Receptus.

However, it has taken me years to find this out and I won't be arguing with anyone who is getting to know the Lord reading a modern version, after all, I got saved reading the Good News version when I was a kid, partly because I liked the pictures!!!
432c647ac85bce24275b426eee1f4177--good-news-bible-bible-illustrations.jpg
 
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Lady

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Right. The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Truth, and glorifies Jesus Christ, not Himself.

John 16:13-14
Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

Some Christians lose sight of that truth and start to look for signs that they indeed have the indwelling of Holy Spirit through outward manifestations. This is how the Charismatic teachings infiltrated the church.

A link to a discussion on the role of the Holy Spirit as the Bible indicates it:

http://enrichmentjournal.ag.org/top/holyspirit_articledisplay.cfm?targetBay=1b574def-b227-4617-bfc7-a02cdb926902&ModID=2&Process=DisplayArticle&RSS_RSSContentID=15162&RSS_OriginatingChannelID=1170&RSS_OriginatingRSSFeedID=4486&RSS_Source=
 

Lady

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Yes, it is a serious spiritual trap! One former Pentecostal pastor who led his congregation in the speaking of tongues admits now, 20 years later, that a demonic virus known as the Charismatic Movement has infected the churches of these last days.

I could not help but pick up on the words, "I pity the fool..." and had to resist posting a meme of the originator of that often used phrase...:D
(Although you said "...pity the soul" which puts a more serious tone to your statement)
 

Red Sky at Morning

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I certainly think that much of the "Charismatic" movement got hijacked by people who became enamoured with power above truth. I became a Christian in '79 and I remember meetings with no "show" at all where family members etc were healed in meetings, or later at home.

I also remember people trying to get God to do stuff like they had cracked some formula - not very wise IMO!!

One experience still stands out to me...
This happened to me some years ago. I'm not going to press the point, but I leave it with you. You decide for yourself if the power of my belief made this happen.

My brother had a girlfriend when he was about 17 who had some very severe back trouble. She had a twisted spine and was given till her mid 20s before she would wind up in a wheelchair. She lived a few hours away from us and had come to visit with her friend for the weekend. That particular weekend Jim Sepulvida was sharing his experiences at an auditorum near to us and we had all wanted to hear him speak so we went.

Just to mention, this was 25 years ago and Jim is no longer with us but I found a YouTube video of his testimony.


Anyway, at the end of the meeting, he wentinto a time of praying for the sick. Various people had gone up to the front but she didn't. There was a pause and Jim stopped, saying that the Lord was telling him there were five women there with back trouble.

Four came forward...

Jim stopped and said there was still a woman with back trouble that needed to come forward. She told me afterwards she thought at that moment 'I'm 17 - that means I'm a girl - it's not me'

Jim paused, then said 'OK, will the GIRL with back trouble please come forward!'

She did.

No-one touched her and she was certainly not a regular at 'that' sort of church, but as Jim prayed for her she fell backwards and looked like she was fast asleep!!! When she came to after a little while, she was smiling from ear to ear and ran up the steps to us, then round the hall again... When she had calmed down a bit she told us that she had felt the love and presence of God as she lay there and had the physical sensation of her spine being knocked into line!

Returning the doctors she had a series of tests and was pronounced inexplicably healed.
 

JoChris

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Good timing. My pastor today in bible study before service gave pro-KJV presentation.
E.g. why thees and thous actually clarify at times.
Thee- single person, you - group.
In some USA states probably "y'all" would be helpful.

Way more involved than that of course, so I asked where he got his information from. Here is website www.tbsbibles.org, but I can't access it yet because it is "the Lord's Day in my area".
 

Lady

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Good timing. My pastor today in bible study before service gave pro-KJV presentation.
E.g. why thees and thous actually clarify at times.
Thee- single person, you - group.
In some USA states probably "y'all" would be helpful.

Way more involved than that of course, so I asked where he got his information from. Here is website www.tbsbibles.org, but I can't access it yet because it is "the Lord's Day in my area".
When my previous church went to the NKJV I checked it out also and found those discrepancies. It seems like a small thing, but it is an important change as it can change the whole context of whom is being addressed!
 

JoChris

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I tried to remember some points:
Compare:
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke+22:31-32&version=KJV
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke+22:31-32&version=ESV
Have to read footnotes to see which is plural and which is singular. Not many print versions would do that unless they were a study bible.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Job+16:3-4&version=KJV
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Job+16:3-4&version=ESV
No hint of singular and plural this time in ESV.

It may seem like hair-splitting at first, but it all adds up. The words' impact are weakened and made less clear.
 

Lady

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I agree-it only seems like hair-splitting, except when the whole context of a passage is changed due to these differences in old and modern English. There is so much under the surface of languages that we are unaware of.
 

Lady

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Well, I am not into debate as enthusiastically as you are, but you may come across a poster who will take you up on your challenge!

:)
 

JoChris

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It is a topic where I tend towards the "agree to disagree" position. Perhaps I will be a bit too hippy-ish for your liking Courtney.:)

I am familiar with Dr. James White's viewpoint since I have watched some of his videos on that topic a long time ago. If the oldest manuscript copy found is *automatically* deemed the most reliable then I understand why people like him have taken the non-KJV position.

Fairly impartial website on bible history. http://www.greatsite.com/timeline-english-bible-history/
Book from KJV defender. https://www.biblebelievers.com/KJV1.htm

I used the ESV bible in the previous church I attended before I moved to this town nearly 6 years ago and NIV years earlier (1984 edition I think).
From a subjective point of view, ESV compared to KJV is like listening to a TV show with volume right down compared to volume right up.
You can't miss what the writers are saying when reading the KJV.
 
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