The “Standard Islamic Narrative” and the Challenge of the Coins

Red Sky at Morning

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XTIANS: MECCA WAS PETRA, OLD QIBLA POINTED TO PETRA
you wouldnt shut up over it. you were promoting these same guys, their videos.

then

and since then
mosques pointing to mecca, not petra

radio silence, just pretend it never happened. selective amnesia. the xtian way.
xtians are fake, pathetic masquanderers who think if you throw enough sh**, some will stick.
you guys have failed every single argument thrown at islam.

ftr xtians are not christian. i respect christians.

you cant even participate with me when i educate you on the true identity of the jewish remnant in the bible
zech 12+ rev 11/12...
ie the real remnant are hidden amongst the palestinians, not the ashenazi/homer branch that belong to gog & magog
(the camp that was cut off as per zech 12)

refute my claim?
you havent and cant. you always disappear. who does that? ive never ignored an argument made against things ive said (unless it was just bickering).
any ot prophecy of a jewish return refers to babylonian exile.

even ezekiel 38 speaks of israel as in 12 tribes and is post messianic,,,.,.yet u were fingering yourself at the idea that it was modern israel and the arabs/muslims were gog&magog.

ezekiel 38 says it will be a land without borders, walls, no weapons.
'a peaceful and unsuspecting people'

isr. clearly is the oppsite in a very deliberate way....it revels in military technology. it was created and populated by ex ww1/2 vets (so not peaceful and unsuspecting). it's obsessed with borders and partition walls. the total opposite of ezekiel 38.

this was done, so you can't protest when you're judged one day.

bible says: up
xtians say : no, down, look down, bible is being cryptic.its only for us who haff the holy spirit in us.
A Christian is not defined by the degree they find Islam convincing @AspiringSoul



1 Corinthians 15
King James Version


15 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
5 And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve:

6 After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep.
7 After that, he was seen of James; then of all the apostles.
8 And last of all he was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time.
9 For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.
10 But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.
11 Therefore whether it were I or they, so we preach, and so ye believed.

If you believe this, you are very likely a Christian. If you don’t, you’re not.
 

Red Sky at Morning

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did that with Tolkeins “the hobbit”, and it worked. Your point?

sooo, I just typed in “numerical miracles” in google and the first page of results was all about the Quran.

nothing on the bible. Sorry dude, but you’re just messing up real bad here.
That doesn’t count as analysis @TrollingTroubles

Nobody was ever argued into faith. Stick with Muhammad if you want to put your trust in him. I will continue to trust in the Lord Jesus Christ (as distinct from various other re-imaginings of Jesus).
 

Daze

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did that with Tolkeins “the hobbit”, and it worked. Your point?

sooo, I just typed in “numerical miracles” in google and the first page of results was all about the Quran.

nothing on the bible. Sorry dude, but you’re just messing up real bad here.
That's interesting. I figured it was because you used google and google gives different results for everyone based on many factors.
Knowing you've watched some Islamic videos, google would also know this (unless you actively block them) and give you a biased result.

But i checked it in startpage, which doesn't track you.. and got the same results.

Screenshot 2021-10-18 at 13-07-08 Startpage Search results.png
 

TrollingTroubles

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That doesn’t count as analysis @TrollingTroubles

Nobody was ever argued into faith. Stick with Muhammad if you want to put your trust in him. I will continue to trust in the Lord Jesus Christ (as distinct from various other re-imaginings of Jesus).
the problem here is that you are also re-imagining Jesus as the son of God and using the unequivocal language of the NT versions to attempt justification of your position, and belief. It’s not contextual nor is it honest. What it is, is emotional. And desperate.

I, on the other hand, prefer to stick to uninterpolated, red lettered statements which Jesus himself made as that is the most sensible thing to do. I won’t be “re-imagining” anything.

have a nice day, mate
 

TrollingTroubles

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That's interesting. I figured it was because you used google and google gives different results for everyone based on many factors.
Knowing you've watched some Islamic videos, google would also know this (unless you actively block them) and give you a biased result.

But i checked it in startpage, which doesn't track you.. and got the same results.

View attachment 64100
Nail in coffin stuff
 

Daze

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Nail in coffin stuff
Just to highlight.. I've known about the numerical miracles in the Quran for awhile such as sahr, the word for month appearing only 12 times or the word yawn, word for day appearing 365 times, ect. There are too many to list. But it is not similar to what Red claims.

Consider this, if the Quran truly came from the Creator of all things, including languages, then of course there will be astounding proofs within it. But Red on the other hand uses gematria for his Biblical "numeric miracles". Which is a form of kabbalism.

Problem with Red, his "Christian" beliefs are inspired by Zionists. It is only with the complete and utter support of modern day Israel does he find vindication. I'd be surprised if Red didn't have a Scofield bible on his nightstand.
 
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A Christian is not defined by the degree they find Islam convincing @AspiringSoul



1 Corinthians 15
King James Version


15 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
5 And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve:

6 After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep.
7 After that, he was seen of James; then of all the apostles.
8 And last of all he was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time.
9 For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.
10 But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.
11 Therefore whether it were I or they, so we preach, and so ye believed.

If you believe this, you are very likely a Christian. If you don’t, you’re not.
this wasnt addressed to YOU. paul wrote to a specific church at a specific time.
It was while staying in Ephesus that he received disconcerting news of the community in Corinth regarding jealousies, rivalry, and immoral behavior.[16] It also appears that based on a letter the Corinthians sent Paul,[17] the congregation was requesting clarification on a number of matters, such as marriage and the consumption of meat previously offered to idols.

yeh i believe in the crucifixtion. however 'dying for OUR/MY sins' is only dependant on having a connection to jesus as a branch in the vine.
in your case, your pagan beliefs and lies concerning the bible prophecies are evidence enough that Jesus does not 'know' you. ie you have no connection.
since islam came and took the holy land for the 1260 days/yrs...christianity was over and xtianity remained, the roman pagan version.

look at how youre trying to avoid the points ive raised...keeo on avoiding it.
the fact you thought ezekiel 38 was about modern israel, which is ashkenazi(homer), was proof enough that youre on some antichrist shit.
totally contradicting messianic themes in favour of some other abomination that mocks bible prophecy and kills the children from the remnant.
 

Nikōn

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I will continue to trust in the Lord Jesus Christ (as distinct from various other re-imaginings of Jesus).
However remember that the Lord Jesus Christ had his trust in The Father, to whom without he could do nothing, Jesus Christ who does only the works of The Father, who is commanded to act and speak by The Father alone. Only through the will of The Father who art in Heaven who's name is hallowed.
 

Red Sky at Morning

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However remember that the Lord Jesus Christ had his trust in The Father, to whom without he could do nothing, Jesus Christ who does only the works of The Father, who is commanded to act and speak by The Father alone. Only through the will of The Father who art in Heaven who's name is hallowed.
Jesus coming as the second Adam was essential in the typology of the Kingdom. Jesus limited Himself to the attributes possessed by man intentionally, to live out a sinless life, triumph where Adam failed and become the true Passover Lamb.
 

Red Sky at Morning

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And then there were 4 gods lol
I don’t think you quite understand this, do you? Btw - I do appreciate how an Islamic filter would prevent you.

I am certain nobody will engage with this, but one of the clearest studies I have come across on these issues is “The Coming Kingdom” by Andy Woods. If anyone was looking for a “big picture” understanding of God’s plan, this is excellent!

 

Nikōn

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Jesus coming as the second Adam was essential in the typology of the Kingdom. Jesus limited Himself to the attributes possessed by man intentionally, to live out a sinless life, triumph where Adam failed and become the true Passover Lamb.
Sparing that my post above was about the New Testament and the Lord Jesus Christ according to it; your reply reminds me of something in the Qur'an which is relevant to your reply (given the thread topic):

But as for those who have faith and do righteous deeds,
He will pay them in full their rewards, and Allah does not like the wrongdoers.
These that We recite to you are from the signs and the Wise Reminder.
Indeed the case of Jesus with Allah is like the case of Adam:
He created him from dust, then said to him, ‘Be,’ and he was.
This is the truth from your Lord, so do not be among the skeptics.
Should anyone argue with you concerning him,
after the knowledge that has come to you, say, ‘Come! Let us call our sons and your sons,
our women and your women, our souls and your souls,
then let us pray earnestly and call down Allah’s curse upon the liars.’
This is indeed the true account, for sure. There is no god but Allah,
and indeed Allah is the All-mighty, the All-wise.
But if they turn away, indeed Allah knows best the agents of corruption.
Say, ‘O People of the Book! Come to a word common between us and you:
that we will worship no one but Allah, and that we will not ascribe any partner to Him,
and that we will not take each other as lords besides Allah.’
But if they turn away, say, ‘Be witnesses that we are submitters.’
O People of the Book! Why do you argue concerning Abraham?
Neither the Torah nor the Evangel were sent down until [long] after him.
Do you not apply reason?
Ah! You are the very ones who argue about that of which you have knowledge.
Why then do you argue about that of which you have no knowledge? And Allah knows and you do not know.
Abraham was neither a Jew nor a Christian.
Rather he was a ḥanīf, a submitter, and he was not one of the polytheists.
Indeed the nearest of all people to Abraham are those who follow him,
and this prophet and those who have faith,

and Allah is the guardian of the faithful.
- Qur'an 3:57-68​
 

Nikōn

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Anyway, anyone with a pure theology of the New Testament will know that Jesus is set as a contrast to Caesar (a tyrannical pagan ruler who claimed to be a deity, "God incarnate" if you get the point, and who was worshiped as such in his day) for a reason.
The actual claims of Jesus are contrary to both what the Romans claimed of him and what the Pharisees claimed of him.
 

Red Sky at Morning

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Anyway, anyone with a pure theology of the New Testament will know that Jesus is set as a contrast to Caesar (a tyrannical pagan ruler who claimed to be a deity, "God incarnate" if you get the point, and who was worshiped as such in his day) for a reason.
The actual claims of Jesus are contrary to both what the Romans claimed of him and what the Pharisees claimed of him.
The Bible is rich with allegory and typology. Jesus has parallels with Adam, Issac, Moses, the Passover Lamb, Boaz the “Kinsman Redeemer”, Joseph, David and many, many more.

The anti-type allegories are as numerous - pharaoh, the King of Tyre, Saul, Esau etc etc.
 

Nikōn

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Acts 2

“Men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a man attested to you by God with mighty works and wonders and signs which God did through him in your midst, as you yourselves know— 23 this Jesus, delivered up according to the definite plan and foreknowledge of God, you crucified and killed by the hands of lawless men. 24 But God raised him up, having loosed the pangs of death, because it was not possible for him to be held by it. 25 For David says concerning him,

‘I saw the Lord always before me,
for he is at my right hand that I may not be shaken;
26 therefore my heart was glad, and my tongue rejoiced;
moreover my flesh will dwell in hope.
27 For thou wilt not abandon my soul to Hades,
nor let thy Holy One see corruption.
28 Thou hast made known to me the ways of life;
thou wilt make me full of gladness with thy presence.’
29 “Brethren, I may say to you confidently of the patriarch David that he both died and was buried, and his tomb is with us to this day. 30 Being therefore a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him that he would set one of his descendants upon his throne, 31 he foresaw and spoke of the resurrection of the Christ, that he was not abandoned to Hades, nor did his flesh see corruption. 32 This Jesus God raised up, and of that we all are witnesses. 33 Being therefore exalted at the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he has poured out this which you see and hear. 34 For David did not ascend into the heavens; but he himself says,

‘The Lord said to my Lord, Sit at my right hand,
35 till I make thy enemies a stool for thy feet.’
36 Let all the house of Israel therefore know assuredly that God has made him both Lord and Christ, this Jesus whom you crucified.”
 

Red Sky at Morning

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I don't disagree about that. The Amalekites and Balaam are more ones.
The thing is, typology really seems to matter to God - look at the consequences Moses faced for striking rather than speaking to the rock - because he got it wrong, he couldn’t enter into the promised land.
 

Nikōn

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The thing is, typology really seems to matter to God - look at the consequences Moses faced for striking rather than speaking to the rock - because he got it wrong, he couldn’t enter into the promised land.
Deuteronomy is THE book of typology in the Bible though, it's the Bible's master-key, everything is built from the cloth of that 5th book of Torah, if you get what I mean.


“And now, Israel, what does the Lord your God require of you, but to fear the Lord your God, to walk in all his ways, to love him, to serve the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul,
and to keep the commandments and statutes of the Lord, which I command you this day for your good?
Behold, to the Lord your God belong heaven and the heaven of heavens, the earth with all that is in it;
yet the Lord set his heart in love upon your fathers and chose their descendants after them, you above all peoples, as at this day.
Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no longer stubborn.
For the Lord your God is God of gods and Lord of lords, the great, the mighty, and the terrible God, who is not partial and takes no bribe.
He executes justice for the fatherless and the widow, and loves the sojourner, giving him food and clothing.
Love the sojourner therefore; for you were sojourners in the land of Egypt.
You shall fear the Lord your God; you shall serve him and cleave to him, and by his name you shall swear.
He is your praise; he is your God, who has done for you these great and terrible things which your eyes have seen.

Your fathers went down to Egypt seventy persons; and now the Lord your God has made you as the stars of heaven for multitude.

- Deuteronomy 10:12-22


“You shall not put the Lord your God to the test, as you tested him at Massah.
You shall diligently keep the commandments of the Lord your God, and his testimonies, and his statutes, which he has commanded you.
And you shall do what is right and good in the sight of the Lord, that it may go well with you, and that you may go in and take possession of the good land which the Lord swore to give to your fathers
by thrusting out all your enemies from before you, as the Lord has promised.
“When your son asks you in time to come, ‘What is the meaning of the testimonies and the statutes and the ordinances which the Lord our God has commanded you?’
then you shall say to your son, ‘We were Pharaoh’s slaves in Egypt; and the Lord brought us out of Egypt with a mighty hand;
and the Lord showed signs and wonders, great and grievous, against Egypt and against Pharaoh and all his household, before our eyes;
and he brought us out from there, that he might bring us in and give us the land which he swore to give to our fathers.

And the Lord commanded us to do all these statutes, to fear the Lord our God, for our good always, that he might preserve us alive, as at this day. And it will be righteousness for us, if we are careful to do all this commandment before the Lord our God, as he has commanded us.’

- Deuteronomy 6:16-25
 

Red Sky at Morning

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Deuteronomy is THE book of typology in the Bible though, it's the Bible's master-key, everything is built from the cloth of that 5th book of Torah, if you get what I mean.


“And now, Israel, what does the Lord your God require of you, but to fear the Lord your God, to walk in all his ways, to love him, to serve the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul,
and to keep the commandments and statutes of the Lord, which I command you this day for your good?
Behold, to the Lord your God belong heaven and the heaven of heavens, the earth with all that is in it;
yet the Lord set his heart in love upon your fathers and chose their descendants after them, you above all peoples, as at this day.
Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no longer stubborn.
For the Lord your God is God of gods and Lord of lords, the great, the mighty, and the terrible God, who is not partial and takes no bribe.
He executes justice for the fatherless and the widow, and loves the sojourner, giving him food and clothing.
Love the sojourner therefore; for you were sojourners in the land of Egypt.
You shall fear the Lord your God; you shall serve him and cleave to him, and by his name you shall swear.
He is your praise; he is your God, who has done for you these great and terrible things which your eyes have seen.

Your fathers went down to Egypt seventy persons; and now the Lord your God has made you as the stars of heaven for multitude.

- Deuteronomy 10:12-22


“You shall not put the Lord your God to the test, as you tested him at Massah.
You shall diligently keep the commandments of the Lord your God, and his testimonies, and his statutes, which he has commanded you.
And you shall do what is right and good in the sight of the Lord, that it may go well with you, and that you may go in and take possession of the good land which the Lord swore to give to your fathers
by thrusting out all your enemies from before you, as the Lord has promised.
“When your son asks you in time to come, ‘What is the meaning of the testimonies and the statutes and the ordinances which the Lord our God has commanded you?’
then you shall say to your son, ‘We were Pharaoh’s slaves in Egypt; and the Lord brought us out of Egypt with a mighty hand;
and the Lord showed signs and wonders, great and grievous, against Egypt and against Pharaoh and all his household, before our eyes;
and he brought us out from there, that he might bring us in and give us the land which he swore to give to our fathers.

And the Lord commanded us to do all these statutes, to fear the Lord our God, for our good always, that he might preserve us alive, as at this day. And it will be righteousness for us, if we are careful to do all this commandment before the Lord our God, as he has commanded us.’

- Deuteronomy 6:16-25
One of the most interesting studies I came across was God’s overview of history, writ so large I had never seen it till it was pointed out to me…

 
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