Texas Justly Executes John William King

[bible_student]

I don’t believe in giving the power of life or death to the state. Jesus Christ was wrongly executed.

It should be given back to the people instead.
Agreed with what you said here regarding Jesus Christ.

 

[Lurker]

I don’t believe in giving the power of life or death to the state.

^^^^THIS^^^^

 

[justjess]

I do not agree with capital punishment under any circumstances. No government or person has the power over life and death. “Thou shalt not kill” ring a bell? Two wrongs do not make a right and lowering yourself to the level of someone doing evil makes you just as evil.

Capital punishment isn’t justice, it’s vengeance. It accomplishes nothing, there have been plenty of studies showing it is not an effective deterrent to crime, it costs way more money than lifetime imprisonment and in the end the family of the victims isn’t satisfied anyway because it can’t bring back their loved one or undo the hurt/damage.

My grandfather was murdered when my mom was a toddler, by two black men. One hung himself in prison, the other served his time and has been living free in Florida for decades. Guess which situation my family feels better about? Neither. No one wants to chase down the man in Florida and hurt/kill him, and no one is feeling happy that the other one is dead. Nothing would bring back my grandpa which is literally the only thing that would have helped at all.

 

[polymoog]

My grandfather was murdered when my mom was a toddler, by two black men. One hung himself in prison, the other served his time and has been living free in Florida for decades. Guess which situation my family feels better about? Neither. No one wants to chase down the man in Florida and hurt/kill him, and no one is feeling happy that the other one is dead. Nothing would bring back my grandpa which is literally the only thing that would have helped at all.

the one living in florida still has the opportunity to explain to others the wrong path he took and hopefully change the course of another from making a huge mistake. that would never be a possibility if he was executed.

 

[Wigi]

I do not agree with capital punishment under any circumstances. No government or person has the power over life and death. “Thou shalt not kill” ring a bell? Two wrongs do not make a right and lowering yourself to the level of someone doing evil makes you just as evil.

Capital punishment isn’t justice, it’s vengeance. It accomplishes nothing, there have been plenty of studies showing it is not an effective deterrent to crime, it costs way more money than lifetime imprisonment and in the end the family of the victims isn’t satisfied anyway because it can’t bring back their loved one or undo the hurt/damage.

My grandfather was murdered when my mom was a toddler, by two black men. One hung himself in prison, the other served his time and has been living free in Florida for decades. Guess which situation my family feels better about? Neither. No one wants to chase down the man in Florida and hurt/kill him, and no one is feeling happy that the other one is dead. Nothing would bring back my grandpa which is literally the only thing that would have helped at all.

Under 'any' circumstances ?
Is it evil to practice death penalty to someone who show no remorse after an heinous crime?
Would you say Capital punishment is evil for, let's say, terrorists who killed hundred of persons and brags about it in prison so it could create radicalized inmates willing to do more deaths once free?

Maybe everyone should have a second chance but a capital punishment isn't evil as we're not supposed to ignore the law.

 

[justjess]

I didn’t stutter. Under any circumstances. Plain and clear.

We aren’t god. And quite frankly a lifetime in prison is more punishment then death anyway, also solitary confinement - no recruiting when you have no outside contact.

 

[Wigi]

I didn’t stutter. Under any circumstances. Plain and clear.

We aren’t god. And quite frankly a lifetime in prison is more punishment then death anyway, also solitary confinement - no recruiting when you have no outside contact.

'We aren't God' therefore we can't judge?
So, criminals shouldn't face adequate deterrent tools?

You said 'no recruiting without outside contact' but we have evidence that some criminals of ISIS wants to be judged in Europe because our judicial system benefit criminals.

Not everyone acknowledge their mistakes because for them it's not wrong to break the law under any circumstances.

People who think that way exist.

 

[justjess]

Capital punishment has not been found to be an effective deterrent to crime.

If you are truly concerned about recruitment there is 24/7 solitary confinement that prevents that completely.

 

[DavidSon]

I'm in the camp that believes capital punishment is a fair judgement for murders. Honestly I would include pedohiles and maybe rapists as well. If you're that dead spiritually, well then "we the people" choose to take your life and end the misery for good.

That said we must have absolute proof. 1400 hundred criminals have been put to death in the US since 1977, while in that time 156 on death row have been proven innocent. The history of the death penalty is tied to racial bias and discrimination. There has to be extra care given to such severe measures.

 

[bible_student]

Capital punishment has not been found to be an effective deterrent to crime.

If you are truly concerned about recruitment there is 24/7 solitary confinement that prevents that completely.

And who is it that has to pay for that? The victims and rest of law abiding society of course, that's who.

The prison system puts a terrific drain on society and is wrong from every angle.

 

[bible_student]

I didn’t stutter. Under any circumstances. Plain and clear.

We aren’t god. And quite frankly a lifetime in prison is more punishment then death anyway, also solitary confinement - no recruiting when you have no outside contact.

But God gave us - we the people - His Judgments for crimes committed and He tells us that in order to have good society we the people need to execute those Judgments, by His Command.

So, it's obeying God and is what makes sense.

The fear of Capital punishment for capital crimes is the only deterrent that works.

 

[bible_student]

“Thou shalt not kill” ring a bell? Two wrongs do not make a right

Correctly translated and interpreted, it's "Thou shalt not murder", instead of kill.

Murder is defined as an un-Lawful killing.

Society Lawfully executing any criminal that has been proven beyond any shadow of a doubt to be guilty of a capital crime and deserving of the death penalty, is the only thing that stops crime for good and it is the right thing to do for everyone.

Criminals are not scared of doing some time in a penitentiary, where they can have free meals and TV and more. Prison time for criminals is no deterrent at all.

 

[justjess]

And who is it that has to pay for that? The victims and rest of law abiding society of course, that's who.

The prison system puts a terrific drain on society and is wrong from every angle.

It costs more to execute someone than to keep them in prison for life. We pay either way.

 

[bible_student]

It costs more to execute someone than to keep them in prison for life. We pay either way.

No it doesn't. It doesn't have to cost nearly anything to let them have their just desserts and then the victims and their families are then able to at least in time go back to having a mostly normal life again, because they can at least know that society has not forsaken and completely betrayed them, since at least Justice was done.

If the victims families don't get justice, the injustice of that on top of the crime itself, poisons and eats them up from the inside forever and they can never get over the grief.

That is what costs most of all, and it costs the wrong people.

I'm sure you mean well Justjess, but Justice is Justice, and it has to be done. Peace <3

 

[justjess]

No it doesn't. It doesn't have to cost nearly anything to let them have their just desserts and then the victims and their families are then able to at least in time go back to having a mostly normal life again, because they can at least know that society has not forsaken and completely betrayed them, since at least Justice was done.

If the victims families don't get justice, the injustice of that on top of the crime itself, poisons and eats them up from the inside forever and they can never get over the grief.

That is what costs most of all, and it costs the wrong people.

I'm sure you mean well Justjess, but Justice is Justice, and it has to be done. Peace <3

Vengeance is not justice.

And yes it does cost more look at the research. Appeals in capital cases cost millions of dollars and drag out for years if not decades.

Has anyone you loved been murdered? Raped? I can say yes on both counts, and what your saying above about the victims families is simply not true or universal. I don’t wish death on the man who raped me, I hope he found help. If I wanted him dead he would be dead. He is not. And as for the murder, killing the men who murdered my grandfather wouldn’t have solved anything or given my family peace. My grandma hid the fact that the one guy was alive until she died because she didn’t want her kids seeking retribution. When they found out they didn’t seek retribution because it was pointless. Taking someone else’s loved one - son, brother, father etc wouldn’t have given us peace. And I’m not sure why you think it would have.

Even in the op article the victims sister does not claim this and basically contradicts what you say. She doesn’t grieve that he was killed but it didn’t give her any solace either.

 

[justjess]

Holy Bible: Romans 13 Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God.2 Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3 For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and you will be commended. 4 For the one in authority is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason. They are God’s servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. 5 Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also as a matter of conscience.

Goes right back to personal responsibility. Don't want to face punishment? Don't commit crimes.

So I know a man who murdered a guy that raped his fiancé. Brutally. He did 25 years in prison for it. Should he have been executed?

 

[bible_student]

Vengeance is not justice.

Violence can be used for good.

And yes it does cost more look at the research. Appeals in capital cases cost millions of dollars and drag out for years if not decades.

A bullet doesn't cost much.

Has anyone you loved been murdered? Raped?

Yes.

I can say yes on both counts, and what your saying above about the victims families is simply not true or universal. I don’t wish death on the man who raped me, I hope he found help. If I wanted him dead he would be dead. He is not. And as for the murder, killing the men who murdered my grandfather wouldn’t have solved anything or given my family peace. My grandma hid the fact that the one guy was alive until she died because she didn’t want her kids seeking retribution.

And had to carry that burden, which she would not have had to do if Justice had been done.

The other good thing it does is it sends a message to other would-be criminals to deter them, because if they know their crime might cost them their life, they will think twice.

When they found out they didn’t seek retribution because it was pointless. Taking someone else’s loved one - son, brother, father etc wouldn’t have given us peace. And I’m not sure why you think it would have.

Because it would have been better for society overall if that criminal paid for his crimes and was no longer there to make people worry and possibly do it again, or embolden other would be criminals to also go out and think they can get away with bothering innocent people. The only thing that will successfully deter criminals from committing crimes and fix society is by putting the fear of God back into them.

Even in the op article the victims sister does not claim this and basically contradicts what you say. She doesn’t grieve that he was killed but it didn’t give her any solace either.

Because that is what she believes society is expecting of her and wants her to say. It's probably not how she really feels about it, deep down.

 

[bible_student]

So I know a man who murdered a guy that raped his fiancé. Brutally. He did 25 years in prison for it. Should he have been executed?

No. He had every right to kill (he did NOT murder) the rapist, and should not have had to go to prison. They whole system is upside down and backwards and it is punishing innocent people and rewarding the criminals.

What happened to him is TOTALLY unjust, he should have been allowed to kill the guy who raped his fiance and if needed, been given assistence.

Deuteronomy
22:25 But if a man find a married damsel in the field, and the man force her, and lie with her: then the man only that lay with her shall die:
22:26 But unto the damsel thou shalt do nothing; [there is] in the damsel no sin [worthy] of death: for as when a man riseth against his neighbour, and slayeth him, even so [is] this matter:
22:27 For he found her in the field, [and] the married damsel cried, and [there was] none to save her.

It's the same as murder and should be punished in the same way.

 

[bible_student]

The guy didn't murder anyone. The term "murder" refers to an unlawful killing.

"Thou shalt not kill (unlawfully)" - i.e. murder

 

[bible_student]

Nope. You do not have the right to enact personal justice. Romans 13 makes it crystal clear the governing authorities carry out law and punishment. We're not under Deuteronomy law, and murder for vengeance is still murder.

Not according to God.

Deuteronomy 17:7 The hands of the witnesses shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterward the hands of all the people. So thou shalt put the evil away from among you.

The governing authorities in reality should only be there to help the people enact Justice and make sure that people don't go too far and that what needs to be done gets done in a calm and orderly fashion.

The system today is wrong and favors the criminals, that is why there is so much crime and it is no longer safe for people to walk on the sidewalk, or for children to be safe if they want to play outside.

The way it works today is wrong and backwards. God's Law describes how Justice should work in a correctly functioning society.

But today, because people have gone away from it, there is no justice.