Teenage girl killed her parents after listening to Lil Uzi Vert.

Joined
Jun 20, 2018
Messages
27
Likes
160
#1
I was checking the latest news and all of a sudden this comes up:


15 year old Daejona Holmes has been charged with two counts of second-degree murder, as well as armed criminal action and tampering with physical evidence. Police say that the teen girl shot and killed her parents Kinderly Holmes, 37, and Brian Starr, 38, in their Kansas City, Missouri home in April. Despite her age, prosecutors plan on charging Daejona as an adult.

Authorities said that they first received a 911 call from Daejona, who first claimed that her parents were shot during a robbery. After questioning her, however, it became clear she was not being truthful. Eventually police claim that Daejona confessed to killing both parents.

Mom Kinderly was discovered in an upstairs bedroom, she had been shot once in the stomach. Dad Brian was found near the front door, he was shot twice in the torso and once in the mouth.

After obtaining a search warrant, investigators found that Holmes had recently searched for ‘scary movies where kids killed parents’ and saved rap lyrics from Lil Uzi about wanting her father dead.

A video on her phone showed Holmes dancing in her bedroom to Lil Uzi's music while holding a handgun.

Investigators also discovered a drawing that showed one stick figure shooting another. One figure was labeled ‘Dad,’ and another was labeled ‘Me.’

A third stick figure had X’s for eyes and ‘blood’ all around it, according to the Kansas City Star.The teen told investigators that she had been heating up macaroni in the kitchen when she heard her parents fighting and a gun being fired.

Rapper Lil Uzi has been under fire recently for allegedly leaving Satanic messages in his music.

https://mtonews.com/.amp/15-year-old-girl-kills-her-parents-after-listening-to-lil-uzi-song
 





Joined
Mar 26, 2017
Messages
4,457
Likes
7,517
#5
But a song can't cause someone to want to actually murder people... that's a psychological issue.
What is your evidence for this dogmatic statement?

That's a pretty big claim.

You could say it is unlikely- but to say it is simply not possible.... that is quite a big statement and I don't suppose you have any proof from scipture or science which proves its veracity.

What I don't understand is the basis of proclaiming such sweeping, dogmatic claims i the absence of any actual evidence.

You proclaim it as though it's some sort of self-evident truth.

And that is nothing personal against you. I simply disagree with the soundness of such a dogmatic claim in the absence of any actual proof whether from scripture or reason.

To make such a claim dogmatically without proof suggests motivated reasoning.
 





Hubert

Established
Joined
Jun 28, 2017
Messages
322
Likes
529
#7
Poor girl had some serious issues, though I doubt that the music had anything to do with her killing her parents.
 





Joined
Mar 26, 2017
Messages
4,457
Likes
7,517
#8
Furthermore, the most basic understanding of psychology would indicate that such is very much possible.

Further, Islam would seem to prove it. Music is haraam for a reason.

It is a fact that music alters peoples moods.

If a person thinks Sade, R Kelly or "romantic" type music is uncapable of stimulating a certain response.... I don't know what world they're living in. Do people think it's for no reason that that sort of music gets played in... certain contexts....?

They're fools if they think so.

Just as I myself have trouble not falling in love with Sade's voice if I hear it (there's no way I'm the only guy with that reaction).... and just as for example another person might respond to R Kelly, Chris Brown or whatever it is they're into (for example, I know of a woman for whom it was Pretty Ricky).....

in the same way, music can provoke other moods....
such as violence
 





Last edited:

mecca

Superstar
Joined
Mar 13, 2017
Messages
6,530
Likes
10,854
#10
What is your evidence for this dogmatic statement?

That's a pretty big claim.

You could say it is unlikely- but to say it is simply not possible.... that is quite a big statement and I don't suppose you have any proof from scipture or science which proves its veracity.

What I don't understand is the basis of proclaiming such sweeping, dogmatic claims i the absence of any actual evidence.

You proclaim it as though it's some sort of self-evident truth.

And that is nothing personal against you. I simply disagree with the soundness of such a dogmatic claim in the absence of any actual proof whether from scripture or reason.

To make such a claim dogmatically without proof suggests motivated reasoning.
Because if you're mentally stable, you're not going to murder anyone regardless of some song lyrics. If you are mentally unstable and have problems (like a desire to murder people), you might go out and murder people... the song isn't the thing that causes it, there's already something wrong with you.

I've listened to a song that talks about a school shooting... Did it make me want to shoot up a school?... No, because I am mentally stable and have no desire to kill anyone.
 





Last edited:
Joined
Mar 15, 2017
Messages
5,669
Likes
8,474
#11
What is your evidence for this dogmatic statement?

That's a pretty big claim.

You could say it is unlikely- but to say it is simply not possible.... that is quite a big statement and I don't suppose you have any proof from scipture or science which proves its veracity.

What I don't understand is the basis of proclaiming such sweeping, dogmatic claims i the absence of any actual evidence.

You proclaim it as though it's some sort of self-evident truth.

And that is nothing personal against you. I simply disagree with the soundness of such a dogmatic claim in the absence of any actual proof whether from scripture or reason.

To make such a claim dogmatically without proof suggests motivated reasoning.
Perhaps it goes right to the question about the links between what you believe and what you do. Some people can watch a film, read a book or listen to a piece of music and consume it as entertainment. For others, it connects with a direction in the person's psyche that just needs that extra push to do something awful.
 





Joined
Mar 15, 2017
Messages
5,669
Likes
8,474
#12
The example reminds me of the question of who was to blame in the infamous UK case where Derek Bentley shouts "Let him have it", and a gunfight ensues...

*From Wikipedia:-

Derek Bentley (Eccleston) is an illiterate, epileptic young adult with developmental disabilities who falls into a gang led by a younger teenager named Christopher Craig (Reynolds). During the course of the robbery of a warehouse in Croydon, in which Bentley is encouraged to participate by Craig, the two become trapped by the police. Officers order Craig to put down his gun. Bentley, who by this time has already been arrested, shouts "Let him have it, Chris" – whether he means the phrase literally ("Let him have the gun") or figuratively ("Open fire!") is unclear. Craig begins firing, killing one officer and wounding another. Because he is a minor, Craig is given a prison sentence for the crime. Meanwhile, Bentley is sentenced to death under the English common law principle of joint enterprise, on the basis that his statement to Craig was an instigation to begin shooting. Bentley's family begins an effort for clemency which reaches Parliament. However, the Home Secretary (who has the power to commute the death sentence) declines to intervene. Despite his family's efforts and some public support, Bentley is executed in 1953 within a month of being convicted, before Parliament takes any official action.

So : are you to blame if what you say or promote incites others to do evil things? Or - can you incite all you like, get paid well for it and then shake your head in wonder at the strange disturbed folk who took your message seriously?
 





Joined
Jun 4, 2017
Messages
3,026
Likes
3,520
#13
Because if you're mentally stable, you're not going to murder anyone regardless of some song lyrics. If you are mentally unstable and have problems (like a desire to murder people), you might go out and murder people... the song isn't the thing that causes it, there's already something wrong with you.

I've listened to a song that talks about a school shooting... Did it make me want to shoot up a school?... No, because I am mentally stable and have no desire to kill anyone.
I agree.

I have to ask though, have you ever been affected in a good way by a certain piece? I know that Ode to Joy (An die Freude) is something I listen to at top volume, if possible... and I'm not alone. Music like that moves some people to tears, and others to exultation. It speaks to the Spirit, and it isn't just the lyrics-- it's the entire composition. And it is by design. So while I agree that a 'mentally stable' person is not likely to be moved to murder by listening to a song, a person already predisposed might be moved or encouraged in that direction, by the music.

There are a lot more people who qualify these days, and though they may not be murderous, they may be inclined toward general mayhem and the like. It is not all so black and white.

Ever notice how every generation has a soundtrack?
 





L.B.

Established
Joined
Sep 13, 2017
Messages
110
Likes
87
#14
I was checking the latest news and all of a sudden this comes up:


15 year old Daejona Holmes has been charged with two counts of second-degree murder, as well as armed criminal action and tampering with physical evidence. Police say that the teen girl shot and killed her parents Kinderly Holmes, 37, and Brian Starr, 38, in their Kansas City, Missouri home in April. Despite her age, prosecutors plan on charging Daejona as an adult.

Authorities said that they first received a 911 call from Daejona, who first claimed that her parents were shot during a robbery. After questioning her, however, it became clear she was not being truthful. Eventually police claim that Daejona confessed to killing both parents.

Mom Kinderly was discovered in an upstairs bedroom, she had been shot once in the stomach. Dad Brian was found near the front door, he was shot twice in the torso and once in the mouth.

After obtaining a search warrant, investigators found that Holmes had recently searched for ‘scary movies where kids killed parents’ and saved rap lyrics from Lil Uzi about wanting her father dead.

A video on her phone showed Holmes dancing in her bedroom to Lil Uzi's music while holding a handgun.

Investigators also discovered a drawing that showed one stick figure shooting another. One figure was labeled ‘Dad,’ and another was labeled ‘Me.’

A third stick figure had X’s for eyes and ‘blood’ all around it, according to the Kansas City Star.The teen told investigators that she had been heating up macaroni in the kitchen when she heard her parents fighting and a gun being fired.

Rapper Lil Uzi has been under fire recently for allegedly leaving Satanic messages in his music.

https://mtonews.com/.amp/15-year-old-girl-kills-her-parents-after-listening-to-lil-uzi-song
So terrible to hear this. I bet the music did have hidden messages.
 





L.B.

Established
Joined
Sep 13, 2017
Messages
110
Likes
87
#16
I agree.

I have to ask though, have you ever been affected in a good way by a certain piece? I know that Ode to Joy (An die Freude) is something I listen to at top volume, if possible... and I'm not alone. Music like that moves some people to tears, and others to exultation. It speaks to the Spirit, and it isn't just the lyrics-- it's the entire composition. And it is by design. So while I agree that a 'mentally stable' person is not likely to be moved to murder by listening to a song, a person already predisposed might be moved or encouraged in that direction, by the music.

There are a lot more people who qualify these days, and though they may not be murderous, they may be inclined toward general mayhem and the like. It is not all so black and white.

Ever notice how every generation has a soundtrack?
i think this millenial generation is the most messed up.
 





Joined
Mar 26, 2017
Messages
4,457
Likes
7,517
#17
Because if you're mentally stable, you're not going to murder anyone regardless of some song lyrics. If you are mentally unstable and have problems (like a desire to murder people), you might go out and murder people... the song isn't the thing that causes it, there's already something wrong with you.

I've listened to a song that talks about a school shooting... Did it make me want to shoot up a school?... No, because I am mentally stable and have no desire to kill anyone.
The person has an innate vulnerability

however, it is undeniable that the music promotes certain moods

if music acts as that "extra push" that Red Sky describes

Perhaps it goes right to the question about the links between what you believe and what you do. Some people can watch a film, read a book or listen to a piece of music and consume it as entertainment. For others, it connects with a direction in the person's psyche that just needs that extra push to do something awful.
then it is undeniable that the music promotes certain behavior

Mecca, you say the song in your example doesn't cause you..... to wish to engage in a particular behavior

and so the example is about you.... and it ends at you...

no factor beyond that is considered....

it is undeniable that if the music acts as that "extra push"- then the music is a cause.... not the only cause but still a cause....

everything is about people's personal pleasure to society......

if the music causes actual acts of violence, promotes all sorts of bad behavior (which it objectively does)

the music can promote all sorts of evil

but the music is defended- for the personal pleasure of the individual

whatever the cost to the society- that is ignored....

so if people die, if such-and-such bad things happen

then it seen as okay for the sake of people's personal pleasure

people can be lead to hell, people can commit murder, etc.

but it's considered okay for the personal pleasure of the individual

now obviously my goal is not to try to change anyone

people have uncritically accepted Western values

and a way of thinking which is centered around individual pleasure

such people have an investment in that line of thinking and I'm sure they'll protect their investment

so this isn't directed at lost individualists

this is not for those who have accepted individualism and are being rewarded for it in some form or other

this is for those who question such thinking, simply for purposes of illlustration

that is all.
 





Joined
May 14, 2017
Messages
488
Likes
1,042
#18
I also feel compelled to ask what Lizzie Borden had been listening to. :/
I heard he was a huge fan of Black Sabbath.


it is willful delusion to believe music cannot promote violence... I had a guy himself tell me how certain music would make him want to commit violence
If a guy told you that certain music made him want to commit violence, the dude has mental issues. I've listened to a lot of music that would likely make a lot of people here uncomfortable; stuff by the Misfits about killing babies and raping mothers, stuff by Bathory about black magic and devil worship, and all sorts of other bands singing about awful things... And I can't say that I've ever been tempted to do any of those things.

But then again, I also listened to that song by Oi Polloi about not burning the witch and burning the rich instead and sort of agreed with the idea. So maybe! (But not really.)
 





Joined
Jun 4, 2017
Messages
3,026
Likes
3,520
#19
I heard he was a huge fan of Black Sabbath.




If a guy told you that certain music made him want to commit violence, the dude has mental issues. I've listened to a lot of music that would likely make a lot of people here uncomfortable; stuff by the Misfits about killing babies and raping mothers, stuff by Bathory about black magic and devil worship, and all sorts of other bands singing about awful things... And I can't say that I've ever been tempted to do any of those things.
I've got something to say... :p

Sometimes I wonder if the real Elisabeth Bathory was not framed. She was a wealthy woman, with coveted properties-- and when her husband was killed, all these people came out of the woodwork as WITNESSES who had done NOTHING during her alleged, everbloody reign. Now I hear she kept diaries, but who really knows.
 





Joined
Oct 13, 2018
Messages
7
Likes
21
#20
Lil Uzi Vert's music makes me want to kill myself because it's complete shit. But a song can't cause someone to want to actually murder people... that's a psychological issue.
The parenting needs to be in question for the growth of the child's mentality. The artists that spread murderous intentions should be in question too. Such respectable words like 'Artist', 'Composer', 'Musician' has lost its essence. Would you want a supposed role-model spread murderous messages/intentions into their works/speech? Under the rocketing evolution of technology and cancerous social media, no wonder these kinds of practices began to flood the news, especially the target audience who are the younger generations. We're getting closer to the reality of Black Mirror. Buckle up.