Teacher in France beheaded for showing Muhammad cartoons

Helioform

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I'm white british and I blah blah about team Zion who appear to dominate this forum by pure volume of posting alone. I don 't suppose you noticed as soon as Lisafer got canned then we got Redsky and Thunderian re-appear from periods of relative quietness to start posting regularly again. So why you are singling out the muslims for calling out the Zionists here I don't know. All shades can recognise the radical Zionism displayed here each day so why make it a race thing?
I never made it a race thing I said MUSLIMS. It's a religion not a race. And for the couple of Zionists on this board, there are countless Muslims spouting the same anti-Jewish and anti-Zionist crap so I don't know what you're talking about.
 

TempestOfTempo

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Your words: "But the person I find most fault with here is the teacher. What an irresponsible, provocative and totally avoidable menagerie. What if the killer had gone off on students, or taken hostages? Imo this seems similar to being ready and willing to stand against sexual assault whenever wherever, yet also ready to admit people have to make mature. responsible decisions. I can admit the laws of their nation were clearly violated in a most heinous fashion, thats not even up for debate."

I read it perfectly fine. If you meant something completely different than what you actually wrote, it clearly did not come across. As it stands, I'm taking you at your word above. In a free country, a teacher should not have to restrict their lessons because of 'what if's' and fear of one group. Bowing down to this crap only leads to more domestic terrorism. Trying to pass any blame on the teacher is like trying to blame a r*pe victim because they wore a short skirt. In the end the murderer is still 100% to blame and at fault.
And in a "free" country women should be able to dress/act however they want at biker rallies, that aint the reality of life. So its not an issue of "bowing down" because there are no shortage of issues to make these stands on. But a teacher (or any adult) who intentionally places the youth at risk for whatever point they may be trying to make? The whole mess becomes invalid. If you are a responsible, professional adult you do not endanger students to solve a political grudge.

I clearly stated my position on the guilty party initially, I make no excuse for them. But this was a dangerous, reckless provocation and the man paid with his life to engage in it. Thank God it didnt result in a student being harmed.
 
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TempestOfTempo

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It's like saying schools shouldn't teach the holocaust because neo-nazis might get offended and retaliate. We cannot live that way.

The teacher wasn't irresponsible. If he was telling the truth, then he was doing his job and teaching about real world events and freedom of speech. If everyone is silenced and lives in fear, as you suggest, they become enslaved. Honestly, the terrorists are counting on attitudes like yours to win.
So what neo-Nazi threat warrents not teaching about the Holocaust? You are not even putting together a coherent argument at this point, what "truth" would the teacher be telling? There are no pictures or even drawings of what Muhammad was supposed to look like, so what was the point? We know what the point was, and he paid for it with his life. Im still glad no students were hurt.
 

polymoog

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So what neo-Nazi threat warrents not teaching about the Holocaust? You are not even putting together a coherent argument at this point, what "truth" would the teacher be telling? There are no pictures or even drawings of what Muhammad was supposed to look like, so what was the point? We know what the point was, and he paid for it with his life. Im still glad no students were hurt.
let me begin by stating that i think this event did not even happen. as a matter of fact, muslims dont have anything to do with my objection to your argument.

you originally stated that the french teacher was at fault for saying things that could elicit a reaction to muslims. because one group might have a violent reaction to something they see or hear, the rest of us should handle the group with kid gloves and tread carefully as to not upset them?

no one group should get special treatment because they are extra sensitive to criticism or ridicule. you can validly argue that the teacher should have used better judgment, but that is absolutely NO excuse for any group or person to physically attack the person. crossing the line from verbal to physical is flat out wrong.

any overly sensitive individuals who need to physically lash out against unpopular speech need to either ignore them and walk away or combat it with more free speech. violence is unacceptable.
 

Wigi

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"You can see how political Islam combines with radical Islam and so eventually leads to terrorism," Mr Darmanin said on Europe 1 radio.

“We must fight political Islam with the same determination as we fight terrorism.”

Even Jean-Luc Mélenchon, the head of the extreme-left La France Insoumise (France Unbowed) party, who has himself been criticised by the right as "Islamo-leftist," condemned “Islamist terrorism” and suggested targeting the Chechen immigrant community.



You should have in mind that Melenchon make a guy like Sanders look right wing compared to him yet even someone like him change his mind about radical Islam. Leftists ask all medias to publish cartoons of Muhammad to show their support for freedom of expression and that says a lot because as always the left turns into an hysterical force that ask to do provocative stuff everytime emotions gets involved. I guess they no longer want to smash statues, who knows ?

But Macron surely is winning the title of most sinister president in the west today conveniently pretending to be some sort of nationalist figure against Islam while refusing to close or even control who cross our borders.
 
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Red Sky at Morning

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"You can see how political Islam combines with radical Islam and so eventually leads to terrorism," Mr Darmanin said on Europe 1 radio.

“We must fight political Islam with the same determination as we fight terrorism.”

Even Jean-Luc Mélenchon, the head of the extreme-left La France Insoumise (France Unbowed) party, who has himself been criticised by the right as "Islamo-leftist," condemned “Islamist terrorism” and suggested targeting the Chechen immigrant community.



You should have in mind that Melenchon make a guy like Sanders look right wing compared to him yet even someone like him change his mind about radical Islam. Leftists ask all medias to publish cartoons of Muhammad to show their support for freedom of expression and that says a lot because as always the left turns into an hysterical force that ask to do provocating stuff everytime emotions gets involved. I guess they no longer want to smash statues, who knows ?

But Macron surely is winning the title of most sinister president in the west today conveniently pretending to be some sort of nationalist figure against Islam while refusing to close or even control who cross our borders.
Macron is being pitched as a uniting figure, at a time when he claimed last year that “world order is being shaken like never before”, in contrast to the nationalist and populist wave. Europeans looking for a uniting voice may feel that he represents “hope”, especially if the narrative plays out of shared global problems, great resets, common values of society regardless of religion, ethnicity etc etc.


If all the world is a meadow, and ordinary people are regarded as “sheep” by some, it might just be that Macron stands by the gate of global technocracy, willing to use any incident to his advantage.

p.s. The teacher was eulogised as the “face of the republic” recently by Emanuel Macron.


P.s. Macron addressing the “Global Citizen” YouTube channel:-

 
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polymoog

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1- the killer, as a Muslim, should have considered the Sharia Law (God's Law).
2- The killing, according to Sharia Law, is wrong. so the Muslim killer has acted against the teachings of Islam and its laws.
again, i dont believe this event took place.

i would like to add that any religious extremist (christian, jewish, muslim, etc.) takes things into his own hands and has their own interpretation on their respective religions, none of which is usually sanctioned by the official group.

my point was that, IF this event took place, the offended muslims should have filed an official complaint to have that teacher reprimanded. any religious ridicule does not belong in the classroom.
 

Wigi

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Since you talk about fatwa, there was one :

The prosecutor also said there was a "direct causal link" between the killing and an online hate campaign that was orchestrated against Mr Paty.

The campaign was allegedly launched by the father of one of his pupils. The man, 48, who has been named in French media only as Brahim C, is accused of issuing a "fatwa" against the teacher.

 

TempestOfTempo

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What i meant was:

1- the killer, as a Muslim, should have considered the Sharia Law (God's Law).

2- The killing, according to Sharia Law, is wrong. so the Muslim killer has acted against the teachings of Islam and its laws.
I think they know good and well what you meant, just as they did with me. No matter how much you attempt to clarify and state your case, they are just going to selectively read regardless...
 

illuminatimess

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To me, this entire situation looks like "divide et impera"! Riling up the respective sides in order to create chaos and to divert society from actual issues. Macron can't handle the Green Vests protesting again when the Corona situation is over.
 
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Giant images of Prophet Mohammed appear on French government building

Christians accept the humiliation of Jesus in art and everywhere. Muslims cannot. They(France) know it and we know their purpose.
 

Red Sky at Morning

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Christians accept the humiliation of Jesus in art and everywhere. Muslims cannot. They(France) know it and we know their purpose.
That would be Matthew 12...

The Unpardonable Sin

31“Therefore I say to you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven men. 32Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come.
 

TempestOfTempo

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Giant images of Prophet Mohammed appear on French government building

Christians accept the humiliation of Jesus in art and everywhere. Muslims cannot. They(France) know it and we know their purpose.
This prolly going to get some people killed smh. As Muslims, we are not condoning the violence and are explicitly speaking out against it. But if you intentionally provoke hardcore Jewish, Christian or Muslim people you should just count on problematic situations arising and potential violence.

So once again, not condoning violence. I just dont see how its legal to provoke various factions of society when a violent response is almost guaranteed.
 
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polymoog

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This prolly going to get some people killed smh. As Muslims, we are not condoning the violence and are excplicitly speaking out against it. But if you intentionally provoke hardcore Jewish, Christian or Muslim people you should just count on problematic situations arising and potential violence.
a fair statement.

I just dont see how its legal to provoke various factions of society when a violent response is almost guranteed.
yes, but who draws the line where provocation begins?
 

TempestOfTempo

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a fair statement.



yes, but who draws the line where provocation begins?
I would say the fact that these acts were imposed on society is what makes them egregious. If the teacher was doing his thing in public speaking out about the cartoon issue then it's still problematic because ish could jump off in public... but what else can one do? The people in these nations have a right to express themselves. But when he made this an issue children had to confront, and at a public school no less, he crossed the boundaries. Yes, he should have been fired or received a reprimand but he chose to ratchet the situation up close to 100% and paid the ultimate price for doing so.

Same with the building... if a newspaper chooses to print these materials that is their prerogative to do so and they assume the responsibility for that decision. However, to blast the controversial and already proven EXTREMELY provocative imagery on the public building is just asking for trouble.

So I agree, these Muslims (and whatever other religious elements participate in this kind of activity) are out of line and in violation... but we already know who/how they is. They are a known commodity. What I cant understand is why people are intentionally trying to provoke others who have proven a willingness to respond with such aggression.
 
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