Suicide & Euthanasia

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#21
Just saw this.

This may be unpopular with some people but it is what I believe.

If you are genuinely saved, and commit suicide, you will STILL go to Heaven.

I do, however, believe that you will lose all the rewards you have earned when you get there.

Once you are saved, you CANNOT “lose” it.

You are SEALED until the day of redemption.

Suicide is a cowardice act, and leaves your loved ones with an enormous amount of guilt, pain, unanswered questions, etc.

What doesn’t kill you truly does make you stronger, and God will not try you beyond what He knows you are capable of overcoming.

What if your suicide was due to the enormous guilt and pain you felt due to your family or loved ones cowardly act against you?
 





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#22
I support Euthanasia. If I am diagnosed with a terminal illness I should have the right to exit without suffering. If I ever get diagnosed with Alzheimer's, I will kill myself one way or the other, and I would hope that I could do it professionally.

Now of course the government or some other body should not be able make that call for you. This is entirely an individual right, I want to make that clear. This would absolutely have to be codified and protected that only you or your selected representatives can make that decision. This would also only apply for terminal illness. Not for depression or anything like that, and you should have to have a screening to make sure you are in your right mind.

Thank you in advance for any responses.
This is one area where the government has no say in the matter-- surely, you realize that.

So what you're looking for is the right to Public Approval & Validation of Your Choice to die, pharmaceutical grade drugs and... ? But then you include Alzheimer's... it is not quite the same. Progressive and debilitating, yes-- but prognosis varies widely.

IF you are comatose, and likely to never wake-- whatever the situation may be-- these are terms you will have the responsibility to outline, legally, ahead of time. Who has the power to make the decision to pull the plug is your call. Maybe you should define your expectations of society a bit more clearly?


***
First I want to ask this question of Christians on the board, if you are saved under your definition, what happens to people who commit suicide? I know the RCC is against it and believes that its an automatic ticket to hell. I'm not wholly sure on how other groups approach the topic as the fundamentalist church I was raised in didn't go into suicide and salvation (too uncomfortable) but I do know they oppose Euthanasia due to the Terri Schiavo incident and how they responded to it.
The Schiavo case was horrendous-- but it wasn't about euthanasia... it was about who had the right to pull the plug. She could not survive on her own.


Actually I am interested in what any other practitioner of religion has to say about suicide.
If a mentally ill person commits suicide-- and the suicidal *are* mentally tormented, which is it's own illness-- then God is fully aware of that illness. The Catholic church does not own God or His sovereign will. Would you damn someone who died for any other symptom of an illness? Or would you consider every other factor that affected the outcome?
 





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#23
What if your suicide was due to the enormous guilt and pain you felt due to your family or loved ones cowardly act against you?
This doesn't answer your question exactly, but I'm curious-- why would you bear the guilt of someone else's actions?
 





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#25
This is one area where the government has no say in the matter-- surely, you realize that.

So what you're looking for is the right to Public Approval & Validation of Your Choice to die, pharmaceutical grade drugs and... ? But then you include Alzheimer's... it is not quite the same. Progressive and debilitating, yes-- but prognosis varies widely.

IF you are comatose, and likely to never wake-- whatever the situation may be-- these are terms you will have the responsibility to outline, legally, ahead of time. Who has the power to make the decision to pull the plug is your call. Maybe you should define your expectations of society a bit more clearly?


***

The Schiavo case was horrendous-- but it wasn't about euthanasia... it was about who had the right to pull the plug. She could not survive on her own.




If a mentally ill person commits suicide-- and the suicidal *are* mentally tormented, which is it's own illness-- then God is fully aware of that illness. The Catholic church does not own God or His sovereign will. Would you damn someone who died for any other symptom of an illness? Or would you consider every other factor that affected the outcome?
Thanks!

If you have a terminal illness you should be able to choose with your doctor a way to exit painlessly ( heroin and LSD works great I hear).

Alzheimer’s leads to the same conclusion, loss of all your memories and eventually a loss of all functionality. It’s the worst way to die and before it gets to a point where you can’t remember your life you should be able to die painlessly. There’s a bit of a family history so I have thought about it, and I won’t go through it.

In regard to “pulling the plug” it’s in this same category, you’re right though you should have this in writing so in case it happens there is no confusion.

The religious right at the time supported her {Schiavo} parents in an effort to keep her on life support, but regardless the church I grew up in was opposed to euthanasia as I vaguely remember a sermon on it.

Technically this could be considered a case of 'involuntary euthanasia', perhaps more along the lines of 'right to die', regardless of the semantics though I think it still belongs in this discussion.

http://time.com/3763521/terri-schiavo-right-to-die-brittany-maynard/

I wouldn’t damn somebody for it, but I know it’s a touchy subject with various views.



F929C3E8-0149-4C83-BCB7-568CAC0EEA56.jpeg
 





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#26
The Catholic Church is evolving, I had a cousin commit suicide two years ago and the pope wrote his father a lovely letter of support which didn’t condemn the kid to eternal hell

The letter was in response to his wife’s letter to the Vatican because the father had fallen into a deep depression convinced his son was burning in hell, since receiving the popes response he is doing much better
 





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#27
The Catholic Church is evolving, I had a cousin commit suicide two years ago and the pope wrote his father a lovely letter of support which didn’t condemn the kid to eternal hell

The letter was in response to his wife’s letter to the Vatican because the father had fallen into a deep depression convinced his son was burning in hell, since receiving the popes response he is doing much better

Well that was really nice. Those are encouraging things to hear. I wasn't trying to imply an Anti-Catholic bias with my post, it's just the only viewpoint ( at least officially ) that I was sure of.

Sorry for your loss :(
 





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#28
I didn’t take it as anti catholic bias I’m well aware of the church’s stance. He was my third cousin and I barely knew him but I am very close with his dad and his wife who is Jewish could not understand the deep depression he had fallen into until I mentioned the burning in hell thing to her... I actually cautioned her against writing the pope out of fear what the response would be but in the end im happy she did
 





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#31
Thanks!

If you have a terminal illness you should be able to choose with your doctor a way to exit painlessly ( heroin and LSD works great I hear).

Alzheimer’s leads to the same conclusion, loss of all your memories and eventually a loss of all functionality. It’s the worst way to die and before it gets to a point where you can’t remember your life you should be able to die painlessly. There’s a bit of a family history so I have thought about it, and I won’t go through it.

In regard to “pulling the plug” it’s in this same category, you’re right though you should have this in writing so in case it happens there is no confusion.

The religious right at the time supported her {Schiavo} parents in an effort to keep her on life support, but regardless the church I grew up in was opposed to euthanasia as I vaguely remember a sermon on it.

Technically this could be considered a case of 'involuntary euthanasia', perhaps more along the lines of 'right to die', regardless of the semantics though I think it still belongs in this discussion.

http://time.com/3763521/terri-schiavo-right-to-die-brittany-maynard/

I wouldn’t damn somebody for it, but I know it’s a touchy subject with various views.



View attachment 19362
The Schiavo parents admitted they would not have respected their own daughters wishes (not to remain alive in a vegetative state) if she had legally documented them, ahead of time. But they're her parents-- it goes against the grain. Hard to fault them for that. :/

Heroin and LSD sounds like a nightmare. For one, LSD is synthetic-- it can be terribly unkind. If you insist on a hallucinogen--> psilocybin. An opiate--> morphine. Its unlikely you would remain conscious though with a lethal dose of heroin or morphine, so.. what's the point? :confused:

None of that addresses the alzheimers dilemma though.
 





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#32
The Schiavo parents admitted they would not have respected their own daughters wishes (not to remain alive in a vegetative state) if she had legally documented them, ahead of time. But they're her parents-- it goes against the grain. Hard to fault them for that. :/
Yeah it's not easy but I couldn't picture myself letting a loved one stay in that condition..


The Schiavo parents admitted they would not have respected their own daughters wishes (not to remain alive in a vegetative state) if she had legally documented them, ahead of time. But they're her parents-- it goes against the grain. Hard to fault them for that. :/

Heroin and LSD sounds like a nightmare. For one, LSD is synthetic-- it can be terribly unkind. If you insist on a hallucinogen--> psilocybin. An opiate--> morphine. Its unlikely you would remain conscious though with a lethal dose of heroin or morphine, so.. what's the point? :confused:
.
That was just an allusion to Huxley's death.
http://www.lettersofnote.com/2010/03/most-beautiful-death.html

None of that addresses the alzheimers dilemma though.
What is there to address? Before the disease robs you of your memories and basic functions you should have the right to professionally end it. Until there is a cure it's only right to allow it, it is the worst way to die that I can think of. As I said earlier I'll do it one way or the other if I was ever diagnosed, I should be allowed to do it with professional help is all I'm saying.
 





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#35
Sleeping pills... stock up for a couple months. No professional help needed.

Alzheimer’s sucks.
Yeah that's probably how I'd do it. Don't have it in me to shoot/hang/stab myself. Still I would prefer to do it in a clinic because something could go wrong with taking a bunch of pills.

I will say... I don’t think it is right to have doctors directly involved in euthanasia it goes against their oath.

Why? If you're pain and going to die sooner or later anyway, isn't it doing more harm to keep them alive against their wishes?
 





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#36
Yeah that's probably how I'd do it. Don't have it in me to shoot/hang/stab myself. Still I would prefer to do it in a clinic because something could go wrong with taking a bunch of pills.




Why? If you're pain and going to die sooner or later anyway, isn't it doing more harm to keep them alive against their wishes?
I think you run into a bunch of ethical quandaries that are not easily resolved. “Do no harm” etc. I’d just personally be more comfortable with them not directly having anything to do with it. Many doctors will already prescribe large amounts of medications for the purpose with a don’t ask don’t tell policy. The place where I get anxious is if they were actually administering the meds, I don’t think they should and I don’t necessarily trust it not to be abused if they do.

If you make the decision and it’s what you want u should be able to administer the meds yourself or have a trusted love one to help you.

Sleeping pills are pretty simple... as long as no one finds you who didn’t know about your wishes it should go fine.
 





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#37
Yeah it's not easy but I couldn't picture myself letting a loved one stay in that condition..




That was just an allusion to Huxley's death.
http://www.lettersofnote.com/2010/03/most-beautiful-death.html



What is there to address? Before the disease robs you of your memories and basic functions you should have the right to professionally end it. Until there is a cure it's only right to allow it, it is the worst way to die that I can think of. As I said earlier I'll do it one way or the other if I was ever diagnosed, I should be allowed to do it with professional help is all I'm saying.
Your own words are the dilemma--
"This would also only apply for terminal illness. Not for depression or anything like that..."​
The prognosis could be more than a decade, with little to no change.. or it couldn't. Much GRAY area in this case. You're looking at depression, fear of the Unknown, at that point. Voluntary forfeiture of what could be perfectly acceptable living conditions would be a difficult sell, if you're looking for Public Approval & Validation of Your Choice to die.

Maybe you should amend your requirements.

 





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#38
Your own words are the dilemma--

"This would also only apply for terminal illness. Not for depression or anything like that..."​

The prognosis could be more than a decade, with little to no change.. or it couldn't. Much GRAY area in this case. You're looking at depression, fear of the Unknown, at that point. Voluntary forfeiture of what could be perfectly acceptable living conditions would be a difficult sell, if you're looking for Public Approval & Validation of Your Choice to die.

Maybe you should amend your requirements.

Alzheimer’s is a terminal illness that inevitably leads to a living a nightmare. This has nothing to do with depression or fear of the unknown. We know exactly what happens as the disease progresses, and there isn’t much time from diagnosis to the nightmare. The average is 4 to 8 years from diagnosis to death with a terrible life in-between.
 





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#39
Alzheimer’s is a terminal illness that inevitably leads to a living a nightmare. This has nothing to do with depression or fear of the unknown. We know exactly what happens as the disease progresses, and there isn’t much time from diagnosis to the nightmare. The average is 4 to 8 years from diagnosis to death with a terrible life in-between.
Again, it is rarely so black and white-- and that is according to mayo's site, among others (eg healthline). As I said before-- you may want to amend your requirements.

Nevertheless, you would have to make legal arrangements long before, since you would not be legally competent to choose with Alzheimer's.
 





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#40
Well suicide is a sin you wont be repenting for...That's a problem...But nothing to indicate hellfire for that in bible, at least im not aware of it. Personally i don't judge people, sometimes life offers too much. And not all are equally equipped to deal with stuff. I attempted it one time myself...
Euthanasia is difficult, define laws as clearly as you want, still im sure powers that be will find a hole to exploit... Yet in some cases it's a good option.. Honest answer is i don't know...