Suicide & Euthanasia

Lisa

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If there is a positive answer there, let me know.
If life has a purpose (clearly many of us do believe so) and one is unable to even live the most basic aspects of life, let alone serve that purpose - then keeping them alive becomes immoral.
Why would it be immoral? What basic aspects are ya talking about?

The thing with euthanasia is that the dichotomy is horrific either way: Excess of suffering vs Death.
I think it’s the fear of suffering that brings many people to think death is the answer when maybe that isn’t the answer. Just because people do it to pets doesn’t mean that it’s ok for people. Idk if it’s ok for pets, but then I haven’t had to make such a decision.

In many situations, I can't blame the person committing Suicide, sometimes people are backed into a corner.
What do you mean?

Just think, you have one minute to convince a person that life is worth living, what do you even say?
Why do you narrow it down to a minute? To prove it’s hopeless?
 






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Why would it be immoral? What basic aspects are ya talking about?
Being able to walk, talk, learn, love, very much basic aspects of life. What many would call "rights". Yes or no?
Immoral because if life has meaning and a purpose and if there is no way for them to fulfill that meaning and purpose - then restricting them the choice to end their life is immoral.

I think it’s the fear of suffering that brings many people to think death is the answer when maybe that isn’t the answer. Just because people do it to pets doesn’t mean that it’s ok for people. Idk if it’s ok for pets, but then I haven’t had to make such a decision.
I really have no clue what you are waffling on about here.

What do you mean?
Exactly what I said. Some people become mentally, emotionally, spiritually backed into a corner (even if other people do not observe the inner conflict), which leads to the idea of suicide not only being favorable to the person but a necessity. I don't blame these people because the world is a shitty place and not everybody lives a life that they themselves feel is worth living.

Why do you narrow it down to a minute? To prove it’s hopeless?
This reply is both an example of small thinking and evidence of why it is so important to think about. The fact I said one minute and not a year, is to show how little people do indeed lack contemplation about this topic, which is again, never pleasant on any side.
As I also said, the topic itself extends beyond just suicide and euthanasia to the very fundamental reason you, I or someone else actually rationalizes to themselves that this life we are living is worth living in the first place, and not merely as an extreme reaction to something but as a daily self-knowledge.
 






Vixy

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I understand people who are healthy and feel life is beautiful, I was well for three weeks once so I get it. But if they knew the extent of how far suffering can go in this world, and all the suffering you dont see.. Noone sees my suffering so people treat me as if I was well when I like right now feel as if my legs will fold and I'll fall right down. It's just no way to live to long for death every waking second of the day. (And no, not after sympathy although I see it sounds like bohoo fel sorry for me, just wanted to express my situation)
 






Lisa

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I understand people who are healthy and feel life is beautiful, I was well for three weeks once so I get it. But if they knew the extent of how far suffering can go in this world, and all the suffering you dont see.. Noone sees my suffering so people treat me as if I was well when I like right now feel as if my legs will fold and I'll fall right down. It's just no way to live to long for death every waking second of the day. (And no, not after sympathy although I see it sounds like bohoo fel sorry for me, just wanted to express my situation)
I don’t think boohoo feel sorry for you, thanks for giving your opinion. I’m sorry for your suffering, I really am. I still don’t like the euthanasia thing though which doesn’t mean that I don’t care about your suffering, I just don’t think that euthanasia is God’s plan for people and as a Christian I can’t endorse it.
 






Lisa

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Being able to walk, talk, learn, love, very much basic aspects of life. What many would call "rights". Yes or no?
Immoral because if life has meaning and a purpose and if there is no way for them to fulfill that meaning and purpose - then restricting them the choice to end their life is immoral.
Would not having that make something immoral? Maybe you don’t have the right word? I don’t think encouraging death is moral if that’s what you mean.
I think of people with Down’s syndrome, people like to think they don’t have a good life, but they don’t seem to mind the life they have. So, I kinda wonder if that’s what the problem really is..people don’t think they can have a life if their life changes from what they know it, but maybe they can learn to have a life anyway? Life is what you make of it?

I really have no clue what you are waffling on about here.
I was thinking that we get this idea that we should end peoples suffering because we think its ok to end our pets suffering by killing them...

Exactly what I said. Some people become mentally, emotionally, spiritually backed into a corner (even if other people do not observe the inner conflict), which leads to the idea of suicide not only being favorable to the person but a necessity. I don't blame these people because the world is a shitty place and not everybody lives a life that they themselves feel is worth living.
Very often life gets better...they shouldn’t think that suicide is the best answer and people shouldn’t encourage that thinking either.

As I also said, the topic itself extends beyond just suicide and euthanasia to the very fundamental reason you, I or someone else actually rationalizes to themselves that this life we are living is worth living in the first place, and not merely as an extreme reaction to something but as a daily self-knowledge.
I think that people like to rationalize that life isn’t worth living and that somehow the next life, or life in heaven is much better, when they don’t know enough about God or the next life to make a decision like that. Its fantasy they are after.
 






justjess

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Have you watched anyone die from dementia? I’d take a bullet rather then go through that too.
 






Lisa

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So I take that as a no?
What that I haven’t seen anyone die from dementia? My grandpa had Alzheimer’s and lived a long time with that. My grandma died before him with heart failure. My husbands grandma had dementia and so does my fil. And dying is hard no matter how you go.
Watched my other grandma die, her legs started turning black and I heard her take her last breath...death isn’t pretty.
 






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Lisa

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We are all going to die. It’s good to accept that idea young. I did. There are better and worse ways to go out Lisa. I’d choose on my terms any day.
The problem with killing people with dementia or other things is you don’t know that they want to die after they have the disease...

I still remember Teri Shiavo...she may have thought she wouldn’t want to live a certain way when she was young...but would she have wanted to be starved to death so she didn’t have to live the way she was living? Because they killed her in a gruesome way just so she wouldn’t have to live there way she was living. She didn’t seem to mind the way she was living and her parents were very devoted to her. We all make dumb decisions sometimes that we wish we could take back.
 






Lisa

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Death will never be pretty but it’s part of our reality. The fact that you have seen that pain and think it’s ok to artificially extend a life in deep dementia/Alzheimer’s says more about you and your warped idea of life than it ever will be.
Who said anything about extending anything..they die when they die like everyone else in life.

I have to add that my other grandma didn’t have dementia when she died..I forget what she died of.
 






Lisa

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I know now that I would not want to be brain dead. I know now that I wouldn’t want to descend into late stage Alzheimer’s.

Having the disease wouldn’t change that it. If anything it would reinforce my belief. Why is that so hard to understand?
You don’t get to choose how you die..but you will die of something and typically dying is painful.
You think it would be better to die than to keep living, no matter that you’ll still be ok for a little while..no matter what you die of...the end is rough.
 






justjess

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Well actually you can choose how you die. That’s the point. The state doesn’t have to sanction it, sleeping pills work well enough. Bullets do as well. Be great not to have to jump through hoops if you’d rather avoid a horrible godawful death at the hands of some disease.
 






Lisa

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Let me ask you this Lisa.

What if technology will one day give us the ability to live forever? Artificially for sure, but completely in charge of our facilities? Is that ok? Or is it only ok if artificiality keeps us alive in a vegetative state?
We won’t be able to live forever through the world’s technology, however people will live forever either with God or in the lake of fire where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth.

How many people do you think are kept alive in vegetative states?
 






Lisa

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Terri Shiavo would have died a long time before she did without machines. You think that case gives you a moral high ground. It does not.
How did she end up dying? Because she said she didn’t want to live like that when she was young and imagined the worst...do you think if she could have chosen to be alive or killed in a cruel way that she would have chosen to be killed in a cruel way so she didn’t have to live like she was? That case was also messed up where the husband...who had moved on even if he didn’t divorce her (for financial reasons) was the person who decided what happened to her. That was pretty messed up right there.
 






Lisa

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If we did a drinking game where we took a shot for every time you typed “weeping and gnashing of teeth” we’d be drunk all day. Nice dodge though.
What dodge? People will live forever and its just the matter of where.

At least you know whats waiting for you in the other place..nothing good. Everyone here can quote the weeping and gnashing of teeth..everyone here has been warned and can’t claim ignorance on the day. Though, honestly, I hope you aren’t going to be the one going to the lake of fire where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth and are saved from it by the blood of Jesus! :)
 






Lisa

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No one was in that body Lisa. Keeping it alive was a monstrous cruelty.
It seemed that someone was alive in that body from the video I saw of her...and she had the love of her parents who went and saw her all the time. The husband had a girlfriend and two kids with her...he moved on yet he was the one who decided Teri’s fate...that’s horrendous right there..and he stayed as husband for the money she had due to her injury..which is also reprehensible...how can such a man be left to decided the fate of a woman who if she died..he’d get the rest of the money?
 






justjess

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Isn’t it gods decision when people die? Aren’t all these extraordinary measures like life support contradicting gods will?
 






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