Suicide & Euthanasia

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idk... hmph.

For six months before my sons 14th birthday the dr started explaining to him heads going to have to start consenting to his own medical treatment. It pissed me off. When I worked in nj I had more than one 15 year old client who refused mental health treatment and I couldn’t do a damn thing about it - neither could there parents. Idk.
Yeah, I don't really know either. I'm just glad my boys have reached adulthood.
 





Lisa

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July 11, 2019 (LifeSiteNews) – Vincent Lambert, the disabled man a court ordered to be starved to death in a French hospital, died this morning. After nine days without food and fluids, showing a remarkable will to live despite the cruel death of thirst that doctors had prepared for him, France’s Terri Schiavo departed from this earthly life at 8:24 a.m. on Thursday, July 11. He died of heart failure induced by the malfunction of his kidneys in Reims University Hospital in the room where he had been kept under lock and key for the last six years.

Minutes after his passing, his half-nephew François, favorable to his relative being denied food and water, informed the media that Vincent had died.

https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/b...iavo-dies-after-9-days-without-food-and-water
 





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July 11, 2019 (LifeSiteNews) – Vincent Lambert, the disabled man a court ordered to be starved to death in a French hospital, died this morning. After nine days without food and fluids, showing a remarkable will to live despite the cruel death of thirst that doctors had prepared for him, France’s Terri Schiavo departed from this earthly life at 8:24 a.m. on Thursday, July 11. He died of heart failure induced by the malfunction of his kidneys in Reims University Hospital in the room where he had been kept under lock and key for the last six years.

Minutes after his passing, his half-nephew François, favorable to his relative being denied food and water, informed the media that Vincent had died.

https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/b...iavo-dies-after-9-days-without-food-and-water
A vegetative state Lisa. For 11 years.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cb...e-accident-led-to-national-debate-died-at-42/

I need to make a will in case I am ever brain-dead that my wish would be to die.

Finally that man’s suffering is over.

Btw life site news is alt-reality propaganda

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Campaign_Life_Coalition

“You can fool some of the people most of the time, but you can’t fool the Colonel”
 





Lisa

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A vegetative state Lisa. For 11 years.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cb...e-accident-led-to-national-debate-died-at-42/

I need to make a will in case I am ever brain-dead that my wish would be to die.

Finally that man’s suffering is over.

Btw life site news is alt-reality propaganda

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Campaign_Life_Coalition

“You can fool some of the people most of the time, but you can’t fool the Colonel”
He didn’t seem to mind being alive, even in a vegetative state. His family came to visit him all the time.

How do you know he was suffering?

I saw it on life site news but it’s in the bbc, cnn and I think it was channel 4 news and others.

Plus I agreed with their headline...it was like the Terry Schiavo euthanasia.
 





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He didn’t seem to mind being alive, even in a vegetative state. His family came to visit him all the time.

How do you know he was suffering?

I saw it on life site news but it’s in the bbc, cnn and I think it was channel 4 news and others.

Plus I agreed with their headline...it was like the Terry Schiavo euthanasia.
He didn’t know that his family came to visit him Lisa.

Do you know what a vegetative state is?

Once again you show that your morality is false.
 





Lisa

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He didn’t know that his family came to visit him Lisa.

Do you know what a vegetative state is?

Once again you show that your morality is false.
How do you know he didn’t know? I bet he did know they were there, perhaps he couldn’t show it, but I bet he knew.

Besides that, it is cruel to kill someone in the way they did, no food or water...beyond cruel! Just because he might have said he wouldn’t want to live like that doesn’t mean that now he is that he still wants to die and to die in that way. I think it’s horrible. Thought that when Terry Schiavo was killed like that and I think that for this poor man.
 





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How do you know he didn’t know? I bet he did know they were there, perhaps he couldn’t show it, but I bet he knew.

Besides that, it is cruel to kill someone in the way they did, no food or water...beyond cruel! Just because he might have said he wouldn’t want to live like that doesn’t mean that now he is that he still wants to die and to die in that way. I think it’s horrible. Thought that when Terry Schiavo was killed like that and I think that for this poor man.
I know because this is the definition of a Persistent Vegetative State : “A chronic state of brain dysfunction in which a person shows no signs of awareness.”

It’s incurable Lisa. Whatever made that person a person isn’t in there. It’s already been 11 years and you would damn him to god knows how long in an awful condition. Allowing him to die was a mercy. That you think it’s wrong shows how warped you are, and fundies are on the wrong side of every moral issue.
 





Lisa

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I know because this is the definition of a Persistent Vegetative State : “A chronic state of brain dysfunction in which a person shows no signs of awareness.”

It’s incurable Lisa. Whatever made that person a person isn’t in there. It’s already been 11 years and you would damn him to god knows how long in an awful condition. Allowing him to die was a mercy. That you think it’s wrong shows how warped you are, and fundies are on the wrong side of every moral issue.
I’ve read that people in comas can hear people and understand them...I kinda wonder if people in the vegetative state are like that?

Could it be like a person with dementia or Alzheimer’s? They are still people and you still know them as the people they were...I think that still gives them merit even though they spiral downwards, shouldn’t you still take care of them and love them?

I think that was what that man’s family was trying to do for him, love him where he was in life. I don’t call a cruel death-mercy. The mercy was taking care of him and loving him and helping him anyway. The cruelty was taking his life and saying it was awful when it really wasn’t....he didn’t mind it.

I’d rather be on the wrong side of it means someone lives and doesn’t die...and he died so horribly. :(
 





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How do you know he didn’t know? I bet he did know they were there, perhaps he couldn’t show it, but I bet he knew.

Besides that, it is cruel to kill someone in the way they did, no food or water...beyond cruel! Just because he might have said he wouldn’t want to live like that doesn’t mean that now he is that he still wants to die and to die in that way. I think it’s horrible. Thought that when Terry Schiavo was killed like that and I think that for this poor man.
Would god approve of such unnatural means? How long exactly
Are you supposed to leave someone’s soul trapped in their unfunctioning body like that?
 





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My father was in a coma before he died... he sent me a message in my sleep to get a priest. The next morning i went and got a priest.. he died as soon as the priest left. He was trapped and couldn’t let himself leave until that.

It’s not right. If you aren’t scared of what comes after there’s no reason for it
 





Lisa

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Would god approve of such unnatural means?
Did God disapprove of this man’s life? The man didn’t die, so if he is being taken care of by his family, what is the harm?

Are you supposed to leave someone’s soul trapped in their unfunctioning body like that?
What would you want to do?

He was trapped and couldn’t let himself leave until that.
How do you know he was trapped? Did he really have to have a priest to die?

Edit: Don’t ya think it was cruel way for that man to die though?
 





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Did God disapprove of this man’s life? The man didn’t die, so if he is being taken care of by his family, what is the harm?


What would you want to do?


How do you know he was trapped? Did he really have to have a priest to die?

Edit: Don’t ya think it was cruel way for that man to die though?
He was being kept alive by artificial means. He was dead for all intents and purposes. God didn’t intend for us to be kept alive unnaturally by technology because we can’t(or our families can’t) accept its our time.

I don’t want any artificial life. No thanks. If I’m brain dead with no hope pull the plug.

Because he came to me and told me. Because he was a practicing Catholic his whole life and very sincerely believed he’d go to hell without his last rites. And because literally minutes after the priest left he died. I would never have woken up with some overwhelming urge to get a priest for no reason man.. it’s me we are talking about.

I think the man was already dead. Withholding extraordinary measures isn’t cruel, it’s reality.
 





Lisa

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I think the man was already dead. Withholding extraordinary measures isn’t cruel, it’s reality.
Withholding extraordinary measures? They withheld food and water! The very food you’re blasting me for saying doesn’t help the homeless to stop being homeless, was withheld from this guy and he died. Yet, you are ok for this guy to not get any to keep his life going and in fact are all for him dying. And he died a gruesome death and that was supposed to be mercy...ok?
 





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Withholding extraordinary measures? They withheld food and water! The very food you’re blasting me for saying doesn’t help the homeless to stop being homeless, was withheld from this guy and he died. Yet, you are ok for this guy to not get any to keep his life going and in fact are all for him dying. And he died a gruesome death and that was supposed to be mercy...ok?
Was he capable of eating it himself? No. Then it’s an extraordinary measure.

Interesting you have no problem giving food through artificial means to a brain dead vegetable (cost untold thousands) but not okay with giving a bowl of rice to a living breathing feeling homeless person (cost 50cents)

He should have been sedated. It is unclear whether or not he was. If he wasn’t that was wrong. But all dying people moan and groan. That isn’t proof he wasn’t.
 





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I’ve read that people in comas can hear people and understand them...I kinda wonder if people in the vegetative state are like that?

Could it be like a person with dementia or Alzheimer’s? They are still people and you still know them as the people they were...I think that still gives them merit even though they spiral downwards, shouldn’t you still take care of them and love them?

I think that was what that man’s family was trying to do for him, love him where he was in life. I don’t call a cruel death-mercy. The mercy was taking care of him and loving him and helping him anyway. The cruelty was taking his life and saying it was awful when it really wasn’t....he didn’t mind it.

I’d rather be on the wrong side of it means someone lives and doesn’t die...and he died so horribly. :(
No Lisa, a vegetative state is not just a coma. The person was dead for over a decade.
 





Lisa

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Was he capable of eating it himself? No. Then it’s an extraordinary measure.

Interesting you have no problem giving food through artificial means to a brain dead vegetable (cost untold thousands) but not okay with giving a bowl of rice to a living breathing feeling homeless person (cost 50cents)

He should have been sedated. It is unclear whether or not he was. If he wasn’t that was wrong. But all dying people moan and groan. That isn’t proof he wasn’t.
So because he can’t eat himself then he’s not worth the effort...yet a homeless person who can’t get themselves out of homelessness is worth the effort of feeding them for their lifetimes. Go figure...

The person in the article is at the mercy of caregivers...the homeless are not.

It’s amazing how you can say who is worthy to be fed and who’s not and that’s ok. But when I say that feeding the homeless isn’t helping them, then that is totally wrong. :rolleyes:
 





Lisa

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No Lisa, a vegetative state is not just a coma. The person was dead for over a decade.
Was he though? He was still alive.
https://www.sfchronicle.com/hdn/hrlm/p/callback.html
I would argue she was actually brain dead and kept alive by artificial means...and the proof is that she did die. But this man was alive for a lot longer and would still be alive today if they hadn’t withheld food and water from him.
 





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Was he though? He was still alive.
https://www.sfchronicle.com/hdn/hrlm/p/callback.html
I would argue she was actually brain dead and kept alive by artificial means...and the proof is that she did die. But this man was alive for a lot longer and would still be alive today if they hadn’t withheld food and water from him.
He was dead for 11 years. You can't expect a dead organ to come back to life by magic after 11 years. Failed kidneys don't recover, you need a kidney transplant. If it was his heart, you'd get him a heart transplant but brain transplant isn't a thing. That person was dead.
 





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First I want to ask this question of Christians on the board, if you are saved under your definition, what happens to people who commit suicide? I know the RCC is against it and believes that its an automatic ticket to hell. I'm not wholly sure on how other groups approach the topic as the fundamentalist church I was raised in didn't go into suicide and salvation (too uncomfortable) but I do know they oppose Euthanasia due to the Terri Schiavo incident and how they responded to it

Actually I am interested in what any other practitioner of religion has to say about suicide.
This is what JAH says about (drug addiction and) people who commit suicide in The Way home or face The Fire:

"13:74 Temporary escape, from reality, using drugs to take you into another little world, separate
from the real world, where pain is not so sharp, is a FOOL’s paradise. The problems are still there
when you come straight/sober, only worse, which can then lead to more drugs, for more escape,
leading to drug-addiction, or alcoholism, and total surrender, if not controlled.
13:75 Drug-addiction and alcoholism are the same thing, except that they refer to different types of
drugs, both of which can kill your body. Alcoholism and drug-addiction are the coward’s way out,
by surrendering to evil, and then hiding, permanently, in their separate world, where there is less
pain. It is also very selfish, because they pass their pain, and problems, on, to those around them.
13:76 There is NO escape, and you only make things worse for yourselves, and those around you,
who love or care for you. If you kill your body, God sends you back again, into another body, and
punishes you for having done it. There is NO escape!

13:77 You have to FACE your problems, ADMIT your weaknesses and faults, to YOURSELF and
to God, and overcome (Rev. 2:26) your problems, and pay your Karmic debts. Admit that you are
not perfect, and lose your ego, and the pain will go with it. If you were perfect you would not be

81 ARMAGEDDON SURVIVAL-KIT CD available from http://JAHTruth.net/ask

here. No-one else is perfect either, in fact, they are probably worse than you, but their egos would
never let them admit it, to you. They don’t need escapism, because they are happy, being bad.
13:78 Then ask God, with humility, to help you to overcome your faults and weaknesses, and put
on God’s Armour, and FIGHT your weaknesses, with His guidance, and overcome them; solve your
problems, by finding the solutions, and make your world bearable. If you do that, you will gain
(earn) some spiritual self-respect; through the victories, that God has helped YOU to win; and learn
to like the person, that God has helped you to become. Remember though, ALWAYS to remain
humble, because you could never have won alone."



Committing suicide is therefore making a BIG mistake, because when someone does that then they are causing themselves to go backwards, instead of going forwards and God sends them back again and punishes them for having done it.

Therefore, committing suicide is NOT the answer and anyone who mistakingly thinks that they will be able to escape this evil world through committing suicide, has been deceived, because they will not escape it. They will just be sent back here, again.

The only answer therefore is that we all have to face up to our individual challenges and difficulties in this life and strive daily to make positive steps of progress, forwards.

"One day at a time", to paraphrase Jesus. The only Way out is through.
 





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