Strongest anti-abortion law in USA passes Alabama Senate, heads to governor’s desk

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No what she’s saying is that your advice isn’t enough. Not that it’s bad advice but it doesn’t go far enough/is ineffective. Don’t have sex - great advice but unrealistic because people be people and that advice is competing with a culture that glorifies it. Use a condom - again better than nothing but the failure rate is extremely high. In states with abstinence only education and households that treat sexuality like a dirty little secret you have higher rates of teen pregnancy and higher rates of abortion as a result. The advice isn’t bad but it’s not enough and it’s misleading and unrealistic.

Men need more birth control options for themselves. Apparantly the idea of a vasectomy (the only one available to them which is actually effective) is horrifying for some reason. But they also need to actually utilize the lesser options available to them, how many men refuse a condom because it interferes with sensation? And then want to deny any and all culpability for the resulting pregnancy? More than a few. It isn’t ONLY the woman’s responsibility to prevent pregnancy but that is how it’s treated.

No one is advising or glorifying abortion. It is an option of last resort. But a necessary one unfortunately due to all the other societal/cultural conditions we currently have.

Yet no one talks about trying to fix those - which would naturally reduce abortion. Go figure.

A judge will not grant it if it is for the sole purpose of avoiding child support. And I am agreeing with you that there should be some sort of contractual agreement made early on in pregnancy between all parties that allows men to opt out as well... so I don’t understand why you keep arguing with me and being nasty.
I dont think you have to treat sexuality as a dirty secret. Just put in its proper context. To me, that would be between people trying to build theirselves or a family up together. I dont think people should be going around having random sex with different people because it feels good. And its the same people behind the culture that glorifies sex and other negative things, that were/are also behind Margaret Sanger and Planned Parenthood and their "coincidental" locations. To them, abortion is good because it lowers the population. And these aspects of abortion and further off, feminism, rarely if ever get addressed.

Also my problem with your view (not you) is that I believe you demonize men to the extent that you do not demonize women. When has anybody heard the term "toxic femininity?" When has their ever been rallies about toxi things women do? Are women not toxic only men? Arent women flawed too? Dont they also do toxic things in this same society that they say raises men to be toxic? But thats the problem. These days are all about pointing at the man and what he's doing wrong while ignoring that society has women out here acting toxi too.

I'd have to look to be sure but I dont think I was being nasty about anything. Sorry if I was but I try to leave it on the subject and not the person which is why I refrain from namecalling. I also dont come online to "argue" but to talk about different viewpoints in times of boredom.. So theres no negativity or negative feelings on my end just because we disagree on this subject or any subject. I care about what I and the family I'll be over believes.. Everybody else has to make their own choice about what they will or will not believe.
 
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No, they probably can't get out of child support. Which makes sense if they forbid women from getting the abortion done. Both parents put the kid on earth you know.
Usually men that dont want anything to do with children they willingly created, are not also against abortion. Usually (which means not always) in this type of scenario, the man would have wanted to abort while the woman wanted to keep..

I think in these type of scenarios, since the woman can abort whether the man agrees or not, the man should be allowed to terminate his rights fully as well. Of course before the birth or upon first notice of the birth....
 
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that's the point I'm trying to make.

Making things illegal is never done for a moral reason. It's done to oppress. This abortion law? It's going feed the same prison-industrial complex. And all the politicians that sign it are still going to get their mistresses abortions. It does nothing to help people.
But they put it in place to oppress. They didnt do it to help the people but to get them to depopulate themselves while also serving a spiritual purpose (fetuses in pepsi, selling of fetuses aught on camera etc...)... Its not the same as other situations..

Again, as justjess, said you have the option of a vasectomy. And it's about the same. Both are medical procedures, after all...
Abortion isnt a "prevention" method. A vasectomy is. Im talking about after a baby has been made and vasectomies keep being brought up. The man should have the ability to terminate all responsibilities including financial if the woman gets to terminate pregnancies thru abortion is what I was saying. And thats my "for this society" opinion. In all actuality NO KILLING of unborn children should be going on. Because its not man's place to say what or who is wanted and who or what is not. No matter how they came about...
 

justjess

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I dont think you have to treat sexuality as a dirty secret. Just put in its proper context. To me, that would be between people trying to build theirselves or a family up together. I dont think people should be going around having random sex with different people because it feels good. And its the same people behind the culture that glorifies sex and other negative things, that were/are also behind Margaret Sanger and Planned Parenthood and their "coincidental" locations. To them, abortion is good because it lowers the population. And these aspects of abortion and further off, feminism, rarely if ever get addressed.

Also my problem with your view (not you) is that I believe you demonize men to the extent that you do not demonize women. When has anybody heard the term "toxic femininity?" When has their ever been rallies about toxi things women do? Are women not toxic only men? Arent women flawed too? Dont they also do toxic things in this same society that they say raises men to be toxic? But thats the problem. These days are all about pointing at the man and what he's doing wrong while ignoring that society has women out here acting toxi too.

I'd have to look to be sure but I dont think I was being nasty about anything. Sorry if I was but I try to leave it on the subject and not the person which is why I refrain from namecalling. I also dont come online to "argue" but to talk about different viewpoints in times of boredom.. So theres no negativity or negative feelings on my end just because we disagree on this subject or any subject. I care about what I and the family I'll be over believes.. Everybody else has to make their own choice about what they will or will not believe.
You can tell a kid that until your blue in the face, you can show it by example and stress it’s importance through words and actions all day... but if they are going to do it, they are going to do it anyway. There’s a point in adolescent development where the peer group overtakes the family for importance of influence. It is natural and has always been this way to some extent or another. We have to be realistic. We can tell them wait for marriage and still provide them with all the information available in case they don’t. That isn’t making it okay, it’s being sensible.

The whole entire culture is screwed. There were somewhat nefarious motives behind some of these things- even all - but you don’t throw out the baby with the bath water. Abortions were happening way before planned parenthood. Extramarital sex was happening way before the feminist movement. Women have always worked outside the home due to economic necessity to some extent or another. That wasn’t feminists fault and it wouldn’t all magically go away if feminists ceased to exist or never existed at all.

I do not demonize men. I love men. Toxic masculinity - the idea - is not about men and women are quite often just as guilty of it as any man is. It is a system that hurts men just as much as it hurts women. I am saying this as a woman who very deeply loves a man who I can see with my own two eyes was hurt by it but will never admit it. I’m saying this as a mother of a son I’m trying to protect from it because his sensitivity and his compassion are beautiful things about him that the world does not have any business trying to squash out of him. How can I demonize or hate men when half the people I love are men? That doesn’t even make sense.

And if it makes you feel better I typically can’t stand women. I have very few female friends (like two) and don’t generally get along with women at all. Of course women can be just as toxic. Often it’s a different kind of toxic that for some reason isn’t addressed as harshly - I suspect because it lacks physical aggression so it doesn’t risk rising to the criminal level or isn’t viewed “as bad” idk. Just because I talk about toxic masculinity or because I will identify myself as a feminist does not mean I do not see this or do not think it’s important. I do behavioral modification with children. Every single one of my clients has been a boy. In every single classroom I’ve seen atleast one girl who needed it as much if not more yet wasn’t even referred for the service. My eyes are open. But the existence of one problem doesn’t negate the existence of another.

Usually the man says he wants the kid, he’ll take care of the kid and then a shortly after its born decides he’s over it and skates. Of course there are examples of both but none of the people I know who have had children outside of marriage where led to believe anything other than the man wanted the kid and would Be there for it. Now if this is some sort of side effect of men not feeling comfortable speaking up idk. It’s possible. But we would all be way better off if we put our cards on the table from day one and stopped playing stupid games.
 

manama

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DevaWolf

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I think in these type of scenarios, since the woman can abort whether the man agrees or not, the man should be allowed to terminate his rights fully as well. Of course before the birth or upon first notice of the birth....
Sure, if the woman has the right to abort, the man should have that right too. I agree there. But the point of my post was to defend the right of women to abortions, and not the right of men to opt out of child support. If that concerns you, create a new thread.
 
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I honestly can't think of a situation where a woman is likely to die during pregnancy (in the western world at least).

The Christian side of me make me say that they have to trust in God. That's what my mom did or I wouldn't be born today since i'm a triplet.



This for example, I think this problem is inherent to a sex culture rooted in hedonism.

I mean, people want to please themselves therefore they do things that are dangerous for them or others and then they want to fix the consequences of their choices at all cost. I think people should be more responsible and realize that they can't afford to have kids before pregnancy
So you're really saying to ban abortion..and do not have sex if you don't want to get pregnant?
 
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Is it possible to find evidence that doctors refuse adequate care for some people based on race?
Since i'm not American, I know nothing about that.







I agree that's why I talked about welfare.




I understand that the problem is related to money and racism. Just a question, abortion is a free surgery in America?
Nope.
 

Damien50

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Is it possible to find evidence that doctors refuse adequate care for some people based on race?
Since i'm not American, I know nothing about that.

It's more about healthcare being predominantly always for whites so less research and understanding of blacks was neglected







I agree that's why I talked about welfare.

Welfare doesn't fix everything and has been the culprit in destroying the black family. It's not practical because people don't want to help but they want their beliefs tho be law.


I understand that the problem is related to money and racism. Just a question, abortion is a free surgery in America?

no
 
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Sure, if the woman has the right to abort, the man should have that right too. I agree there. But the point of my post was to defend the right of women to abortions, and not the right of men to opt out of child support. If that concerns you, create a new thread.
You can’t quote me first then later tell me to talk about something else. If that’s how you felt you could’ve engaged someone discussing that which you want to...
 

DevaWolf

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You can’t quote me first then later tell me to talk about something else. If that’s how you felt you could’ve engaged someone discussing that which you want to...
No worries, I won't quote you at all after this as you completely ignore any points I made anyway.
 
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The whole entire culture is screwed.
I agree and I think that is the problem that needs fixing if anything. Abortions is like a band aid to the open wound that is this culture that glorifies and promotes sex between random, non committed people. If this culture shamed this activity, people would do it less. If this culture said "no abortion except in cases for rapes/incest" you'd see people take greater care to not put themselves in situations that could result in a baby.

I do not demonize men. I love men. Toxic masculinity - the idea - is not about men and women are quite often just as guilty of it as any man is. It is a system that hurts men just as much as it hurts women. I am saying this as a woman who very deeply loves a man who I can see with my own two eyes was hurt by it but will never admit it. I’m saying this as a mother of a son I’m trying to protect from it because his sensitivity and his compassion are beautiful things about him that the world does not have any business trying to squash out of him. How can I demonize or hate men when half the people I love are men? That doesn’t even make sense.
Well when you say that men have a r*pe culture amongst them, it gives off a different vibe. And I've had racists like me, and I have liked racists. Meaning people who had negative feelings about black people in general, have took a liking to me and vice versa. But that didnt change their feelings for the whole. Im not questioning your feelings for the whole or the men in your life. Im just going off of what you're presenting here.

And if it makes you feel better I typically can’t stand women. I have very few female friends (like two) and don’t generally get along with women at all. Of course women can be just as toxic. Often it’s a different kind of toxic that for some reason isn’t addressed as harshly - I suspect because it lacks physical aggression so it doesn’t risk rising to the criminal level or isn’t viewed “as bad” idk. Just because I talk about toxic masculinity or because I will identify myself as a feminist does not mean I do not see this or do not think it’s important. I do behavioral modification with children. Every single one of my clients has been a boy. In every single classroom I’ve seen atleast one girl who needed it as much if not more yet wasn’t even referred for the service. My eyes are open. But the existence of one problem doesn’t negate the existence of another.

Usually the man says he wants the kid, he’ll take care of the kid and then a shortly after its born decides he’s over it and skates. Of course there are examples of both but none of the people I know who have had children outside of marriage where led to believe anything other than the man wanted the kid and would Be there for it. Now if this is some sort of side effect of men not feeling comfortable speaking up idk. It’s possible. But we would all be way better off if we put our cards on the table from day one and stopped playing stupid games.

What would really make me feel better if people would try to look at things from the elite's vantage point. They're doing this to split up the home, and to debase the man You may not believe it or want to believe it, but thats what it is. They dont care about making the average woman equal or how they're being treated or mistreated. They want to split up the homes, debase the man, and cause as much chaos as they're allowed, before then coming up with a solution to the chaos THEY caused.. Thats the name of the game. I really say this to the men though. For the most part, women arent going to give up the empowerment they're receiving from society till they're forced to.

"Usually the man wants the kid, then skates".. See this is demonizing men. If men are mostly bad parents then whats causing that? And if its causing it for men, why isnt it causing it for women? This ties back into the lack of a "toxic femininity" hashtag. The reason there isnt one is because the bullseye is on the man.
 
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No worries, I won't quote you at all after this as you completely ignore any points I made anyway.
A disagreement is different than ignoring. I disagree with your position. I disagreed with it yesterday and will tomorrow and the next day. And Im sure the feeling is mutual. Theres no harm or foul in that it just is what it is... We can internetly shake hands and go our separate ways till the next time we converse. Theres no negativity on my end just because you see differently than me...
 

justjess

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Referencing toxic masculinity or the existence of r*pe culture on a societal level does not mean I hate men. I realize that it hurts men just as much, I am vocal about that. Caring about and loving men doesn’t mean I will not call out something I see that is hurting women, especially not when it is also hurting men. I have double reason to speak up here.

You and I agree with the problem. What we do not agree on is the cause. I will again attempt (probably in vein) to direct people’s attentions to the industrial revolution. Everything since has been reactive. And your right women aren’t going to give up feminism when the world that created the need for it still exists. You can’t treat a problem until it’s properly diagnosed and you are improperly diagnosing this one.
 
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