Steven Bancarz's Youtube clip "proof meditation is dangerous and demonic"

Camidria

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It was a good video, he had lots of unbiased scientific studies he cited. And I loved the fact that he wove in the video of another New age Guru who spoke about the subject at length. I think he titled the video wrongly, because many will now just skip over it as they think he will be speaking mostly about Christianity - this is not the case, he is reciting unbiased non christian research and sources - it was fantastic and should be watched.

It's sad to see that many here won't even open the video and just watch a few minutes to see the research he is reciting. I also trust Steven as he was very well respected and seen as a great teacher when he was writing for the website Spirit Science as a New Ager.

@shankara the things you mentioned about your meditation was spoken about in that video at length, just make a little time, he is really explaining things well and objectively. Wouldn't you want to know if you might be doing something to yourself that may harm you in the long run even if it might seem it is harmless?
 






shankara

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@Camidria - Though if you go into these things without the proper orientation i.e. seeking enlightenment then it's possible that problems will arise. At least one should have some psychological understanding, that we have an unconscious mind which is very chaotic and filled with neuroses. It's not that the difficulties won't arise if you have these foundations, it's simply that when have the right perspective you're like "ok, these difficult experiences are part of the process, I'm going to keep working through them" and you do.

If you're expecting meditation to be all bliss you're way wrong, it can be very painful and hard work, it can bring about the "Dark Night of the Soul" and more. Unfortunately I think that an easy blissful healing experience is what a lot of people do expect and when things get intense they think "oh I've damaged myself". This isn't the case, it's just that they are seeing how damaged, traumatized and broken they actually are and being forced to confront it.

The subconscious is very powerful, confronting it is like learning to swim in a stormy sea. It will throw things at us including things like hallucinations in an attempt to make us stop meditating or using whatever technique we are using to confront it, because when it's brought out into the light it loses it's power over us. There's lots of stories about Buddha being confronted by dark forces who want to prevent his awakening and everyone seeking enlightenment will face the same thing.

Things like New Age meditations where the motive is to make money or something are very bad, the New Age thing misuses techniques meant for quite other purposes. It wouldn't surprise me at all if people meditating with such motives have problem. I personally went through a phase where I was inventing my own meditation techniques (mantras) and it was part of the cause of me getting in some major trouble.
 






DavidSon

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I still can't believe grown adults would consult Steven Bankerz on the subject of meditation. :D Oh ye of little faith...

"And Isaac went out to meditate in the field in the evening; and he lifted his eyes and looked, and there, the camels were coming." -GENESIS 24:63
 






Camidria

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@Camidria - it's like this..
Ok I hear what you are saying - but now I have a question for you....

If you had a choice of dealing with things - one that is traumatic and opens up bad event from the past that kind of scares you a lot, like you said:
If you're expecting meditation to be all bliss you're way wrong, it can be very painful and hard work, it can bring about the "Dark Night of the Soul" and more.
And then another method, a more effective one that is completely freeing and not traumatic at all, which one will you choose?

I recently dealt with a lot of things from my past in the last named way, I feel so free, so happy and ready to be the best I can be. Yet I didn't need anything traumatic or dark to deal with it, and this is where the difference is...
 






Camidria

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I still can't believe grown adults would consult Steven Bankerz on the subject of meditation. :D Oh ye of little faith...

"And Isaac went out to meditate in the field in the evening; and he lifted his eyes and looked, and there, the camels were coming." -GENESIS 24:63
Meditation according to the Word in the Hebrew means to FILL your mind with God's words, listen to scripture, repeat it to yourself, an active thought process of talking to God and making the scripture part of you by memorizing it.
Meditation in Eastern religions will be EMPTYING your mind, opening yourself spiritually for demonic influence, being EMPTY not thinking is important and breathing deeply like sucking in what anything else but God can give you.

But hey being a Christian these days for many means doing as you want and disregarding many things in scripture as you please, creating your own god as you see fit, definitely not reading scripture in context or actually going back to the Hebrew no no no, interpreting it as you want, lets sing kum ba ya with demons that is fun yay! And of course judging people without really getting to know them thats also fantastic! :rolleyes:
 






shankara

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Ok I hear what you are saying - but now I have a question for you....

If you had a choice of dealing with things - one that is traumatic and opens up bad event from the past that kind of scares you a lot, like you said:

And then another method, a more effective one that is completely freeing and not traumatic at all, which one will you choose?

I recently dealt with a lot of things from my past in the last named way, I feel so free, so happy and ready to be the best I can be. Yet I didn't need anything traumatic or dark to deal with it, and this is where the difference is...
It's not possible to deal with anything without working on it. Sure, that's not just meditation, there's healing in nature, in meaningful labor, many different sources. Meditation is a psychological work, working through issues, complexes, traumas. Sometimes difficult things come up, but that's part of the process. It's a process of getting free from the chaos of what the Zen people call "monkey mind", thoughts roaming all over the place without direction.

Anyway, it's not really a question of "emptying the mind", it's a question of learning to concentrate, whether that be on the breath or some subject of meditation like impermanence. It's a means of learning to observe oneself.
 






Camidria

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It's not possible to deal with anything without working on it.
I did work on it, but just differently and not in a traumatizing way, I didn't need to relive my father's abuse for example.

Anyway, it's not really a question of "emptying the mind", it's a question of learning to concentrate, whether that be on the breath or some subject of meditation like impermanence. It's a means of learning to observe oneself.
Ok well I had bad habits and bad ways of thinking about myself, I prayed to Jesus about these things and whenever a bad though would come up into my mind would ask Jesus to replace it with truth, there was always a scripture that came into my heart that I could look up that changed my mindset like "you are fearfully and wonderfully made".

Bad habits was sorted out in similar ways, effectively, it took work yes but it was safe.

When speaking to others in using the techniques you describe it's like they are working, treading carefully in between a pack of Lions, sorting out that environment.

Doing it with the help of Jesus is different, like standing outside of the Lion cage while the Holy Spirit that is untouchable by the Lions is sorting out the environment for you, the hard work comes in to be in conversation with Jesus, really asking him for help, focusing on His will for you.

I hope you understand what I am trying to explain.
 






shankara

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I did work on it, but just differently and not in a traumatizing way, I didn't need to relive my father's abuse for example.


Ok well I had bad habits and bad ways of thinking about myself, I prayed to Jesus about these things and whenever a bad though would come up into my mind would ask Jesus to replace it with truth, there was always a scripture that came into my heart that I could look up that changed my mindset like "you are fearfully and wonderfully made".

Bad habits was sorted out in similar ways, effectively, it took work yes but it was safe.

When speaking to others in using the techniques you describe it's like they are working, treading carefully in between a pack of Lions, sorting out that environment.

Doing it with the help of Jesus is different, like standing outside of the Lion cage while the Holy Spirit that is untouchable by the Lions is sorting out the environment for you, the hard work comes in to be in conversation with Jesus, really asking him for help, focusing on His will for you.

I hope you understand what I am trying to explain.
I'm sure that Jesus is helping me to meditate actually.
 






Camidria

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I'm sure that Jesus is helping me to meditate actually.
There is a way to know for sure if it is him or not. Jesus would want you to trust in HIM fully and not in any process, so in other word if you are focusing on Him and a relationship with Him, talking to Him and Him giving you scripture.

When you are focusing on something unknown, breathing, you method of doing something or anything else - then no.

Just have a listen to the video, it wouldn't hurt dear. Steven explains things in lots of good detail, I really want to hear your honest opinion on the video after you have seen it, so watch it to please let me know what you think xx
 






DavidSon

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Meditation according to the Word in the Hebrew means to FILL your mind with God's words, listen to scripture, repeat it to yourself, an active thought process of talking to God and making the scripture part of you by memorizing it.
Meditation in Eastern religions will be EMPTYING your mind, opening yourself spiritually for demonic influence, being EMPTY not thinking is important and breathing deeply like sucking in what anything else but God can give you.

But hey being a Christian these days for many means doing as you want and disregarding many things in scripture as you please, creating your own god as you see fit, definitely not reading scripture in context or actually going back to the Hebrew no no no, interpreting it as you want, lets sing kum ba ya with demons that is fun yay! And of course judging people without really getting to know them thats also fantastic! :rolleyes:
We're obviously all viewing things in our own way. "Meditation", whether silent contemplation, prayer, or single-minded focus, can be interpreted in different lights. The word from Genesis 23 in Hebrew, la-suah means simply "to talk." Here's one interpretation from a Jewish perspective:

"When I read these words of Torah, I can see myself reflected clearly within them. Even the original Hebrew term, “Lasuah Basadeh,” to ‘suah” (meditate) in the field, speaks directly of the specific type of prophetic meditations that I have performed for the last twenty years. The term “suah” actually means, “to speak,” but this is not your ordinary speech. This is a conversation with G-d. This communication does not take place with words out of one’s mouth, but rather through thoughts and visions emanating out of one’s heart."

I don't follow the words of deluded millenials claiming to be "spiritual" authorities. I watched his emotional "born again" experience and know straight up he's lost. It's not like I hate Bankerz or anything, he's just a confused child who I wish the best for. The way God made me, I have no connection to those who claim to see and speak to Jesus. Why is it Jesus only reveals himself to alcoholics from the southern United States? If you look at it Paul was the first to experience the patented "supernatural visitation" from Jesus, and to me it speaks volumes.

That's the thing people forget @Camidria: we're not at a Protestent/Evangelical website. VC in his bio is a professed Christian, but that's as far as it goes. We're sharing the site, bringing forth information we think is truthful/helpful(?), and thank goodness we're free to challenge each other's opinions.
 






shankara

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There is a way to know for sure if it is him or not. Jesus would want you to trust in HIM fully and not in any process, so in other word if you are focusing on Him and a relationship with Him, talking to Him and Him giving you scripture.

When you are focusing on something unknown, breathing, you method of doing something or anything else - then no.

Just have a listen to the video, it wouldn't hurt dear. Steven explains things in lots of good detail, I really want to hear your honest opinion on the video after you have seen it, so watch it to please let me know what you think xx
So I watched most of the last ten minutes of the video, these are my thoughts...

Ok so New Age is Satanic, I pretty much agree. Aleister Crowley was very dark, yes.

One of the major differences between New Age and Buddhist meditation is that after meditating a Buddhist says what is known as a Dedication Prayer, dedicating the merit gained by meditation to the cause of achieving enlightenment. Probably you have some objections to that as a Christian, but to me it makes sense.

As for this whole thing about "emptying the mind", one of my teachers said that an empty mind is shallow, rather we should try to cultivate "serene reflection". That could even be on the Bible, I don't see why not, the Bible is a legitimate revelation though obviously we interpret it differently.
 






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@Camidria you don’t really hear the phrase “empty your mind” outside of religious propaganda that tries to scare people away from meditating. Trying to “empty” your mind is a good way to make sure you never learn how to really meditate. It doesn’t work that way. Honestly. You’re being duped by charlatans.
 






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One thing it’s important to understand is that a belief is a decision. For example if you decide that fear is important to you, then your future will automatically be structured accordingly. This is not some B.S. magical hocus pocus kinda thing, don’t get the wrong idea. It’s simply input/output.. it’s very logical, mechanical, and automatic. The ability to choose is a terrifying idea for many people because deep down they don’t want the responsibility and avoid it by obscuring it with a belief that offers an alternative. We like to believe we are at the hands of fate, which is true somewhat, remembering what I mentioned about not being in the driver’s seat,, however we are also reponsible for our own beliefs, and how we respond to life itself in general.
Expanding on this idea... believing in god is not a decision. Humans tend to believe only what we see with our eyes, and religions do not give anyone an exemption from this simple truth. When you declare belief in a god, you have not decided that god exists, you have merely decided that the existence of god is important to you. The two decisions might seem similar or even identical on the surface, but they are actually opposites. Understanding this simple distinction is a good introduction to comprehending the true function of your belief system.
 






Red Sky at Morning

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@Camidria you don’t really hear the phrase “empty your mind” outside of religious propaganda that tries to scare people away from meditating. Trying to “empty” your mind is a good way to make sure you never learn how to really meditate. It doesn’t work that way. Honestly. You’re being duped by charlatans.
I used to do karate as a kid. After a visit to the Far East our sensei came back very keen on meditation. He demonstrated the power of a punch through about six full grown men, the front one holding a pad. First, the biggest and strongest of them threw a punch and the guy at the back of the line didn’t move. Then he, 40lb lighter and inches shorter. He threw a punch and the guy at the back fell backwards like a car had hit him. Looking back, it seems obvious that the power that was in operation was not his!

Afterwards, he had sitting cross-legged on top of bare feet on a hard wooden floor for ages while we were told to empty our minds and allow the serpent force to rise from the bottom of our spines and for the energy to be released through our third eye.

I was too young to care about meditation, decided it made my feet ache and I can remember concluding at the age of about 12 that “emptying my mind” and cultivating the serpent force was not for me.
 






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I used to do karate as a kid. After a visit to the Far East our sensei came back very keen on meditation. He demonstrated the power of a punch through about six full grown men, the front one holding a pad. First, the biggest and strongest of them threw a punch and the guy at the back of the line didn’t move. Then he, 40lb lighter and inches shorter. He threw a punch and the guy at the back fell backwards like a car had hit him. Looking back, it seems obvious that the power that was in operation was not his!

Afterwards, he had sitting cross-legged on top of bare feet on a hard wooden floor for ages while we were told to empty our minds and allow the serpent force to rise from the bottom of our spines and for the energy to be released through our third eye.

I was too young to care about meditation, decided it made my feet ache and I can remember concluding at the age of about 12 that “emptying my mind” and cultivating the serpent force was not for me.
Maybe you should try real meditation sometime. That “sensei” was obviously an idiot, no offense.
 






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If emptying the mind is the goal, maybe a lobotomy is a better option? Are the lobotomized at the pinnacle of enlightenment perhaps? Why not go permanently empty and be done with it. LOL
 






Red Sky at Morning

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Meditation worth getting into:-

Perhaps the best way to think of selah is a combination of all these meanings. The Amplified Bible adds “pause and calmly think about that” to each verse where selah appears. When we see the word selah in a psalm or in Habakkuk 3, we should pause to carefully weigh the meaning of what we have just read or heard, lifting up our hearts in praise to God for His great truths. “All the earth bows down to you; they sing praise to you, they sing the praises of your name. Selah!” (Psalm 66:4).
 






Camidria

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I don't follow the words of deluded millenials claiming to be "spiritual" authorities. I watched his emotional "born again" experience and know straight up he's lost. It's not like I hate Bankerz or anything, he's just a confused child who I wish the best for.
Yes lets watch his first moments as a born again believer and judge everything he works on on that, even after 4 years he will be exactly the same right? nobody ever grows or changes right? That is what I am hearing so kudos to you for looking at 2% of the picture and thinking your ideas that flow from that little info will be spot on.... just saying.
The way God made me, I have no connection to those who claim to see and speak to Jesus. Why is it Jesus only reveals himself to alcoholics from the southern United States? If you look at it Paul was the first to experience the patented "supernatural visitation" from Jesus, and to me it speaks volumes.
Yes because different people will be treated exactly the same way by God, He made us different so that He can put us in boxes and treat us all precisely the same? :rolleyes:

That's the thing people forget @Camidria: we're not at a Protestent/Evangelical website. VC in his bio is a professed Christian, but that's as far as it goes. We're sharing the site, bringing forth information we think is truthful/helpful(?), and thank goodness we're free to challenge each other's opinions.
Yep and I am challenging your opinion here, you say "you are so nuts for looking at Steven's videos" meanwhile what you say demonstrates that you have made a judgement about him based on a tinsey bit of information - that makes you an expert on who he is as a person? No one can form a fair opinion about anyone else based on one interaction.....
 






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