Steven Bancarz's Youtube clip "proof meditation is dangerous and demonic"

Joined
Mar 15, 2017
Messages
3,810
Likes
6,408
#1
This video from an ex New Ager is dated 31st August 2019.


He goes into a lot of detail about how all these testimonies of horrible experiences were not from newbies, they were from experienced people, well trained in meditation. They knew what they were doing, they had spent a huge amount of time meditating before these experiences started happening.

The video footage of a current New Ager really does make it sound like some people are becoming possessed without realising it.

Any thoughts from people who do meditation themselves, or have done it in the past?
 





Stina

Established
Joined
Feb 2, 2018
Messages
106
Likes
213
#2
Hmm, I did suffer of Sleep Paralysis for more than 7 years around the time I had tried meditation and I did have plenty of paranormal occurrences in my then home and in my later appartment too. However I don't recall if they really started after my first meditation or not, because it was almost a decade ago and my memory isn't what it used to be.
I'm pretty sure I got possessed because of this New Age garbage, though. There's a teacher (I don't know if I should say her name) which kept repeating that "what you resist, persists'', and let's just say I eventually took her advice and started resisting less and less to something that kept making its presence known since I was little, first in my dreams, and then during meditations and during Sleep Paralysis episodes as well.

I realized I was possessed because of what occured after it dawned on me that the devil and God might be real due to events in my own life and in the world too, and after asking my mother if my grandfather does baptisms at his church.
My mother called in and arranged everything for me to be baptised in a few weeks time. Afterwards, in the time that remained till my baptism, I started trembling continuously and I've had times when I woke up with disturbing marks on my body.
I also had this urge to try to work myself to death so that I wouldn't have to get baptised, and I kept strongly wishing I would fall ill just to eschew this commitment.
I couldn't sleep in the weeks prior to that day and this was unheard of for me, because in spite of my Sleep Paralysis history I've never had any problems falling asleep before, like I used to fall asleep almost as soon as my head hit my pillow, even after experiencing a scary Sleep Paralysis episode I'd sleep like a brick, but not in those, thankfully, short weeks.
There was also this indescribable hatred inside of me.

Finally, I convinced my mother to call in and tell them I'm not coming anymore, and in the second my mother accepted to do just that, I eerily found myself smirking without my accord and feeling immense satisfaction wash over me. Very soon after realizing what was most definitely happening to me I called back and retracted that decision because I was understandably spooked.
I could find a semblance of an explanation for everything that has happened to me up until then. I've tried to explain away even the times when during Sleep Paralysis I made this metallic and perfectly continuous sound that shouldn't be possible with our larynx, it seemed like I didn't breathe when I was producing that demonic sound which felt so, so incredibly wrong on my throat.
I could try to justify everything, no matter how thin those explanations were, but not my body moving without me.



Interesting logo that Actualized website has BTW, they're not trying to hide at all anymore.
 





Joined
Apr 12, 2017
Messages
1,246
Likes
1,686
#3
ESP class.
(Rachel had been discussing a story on astral projection which told of a man seeing a black shape trying to sever the silver cord so he could not return to his body.)
Good evening and welcome to our new friends.
This was a warning given by the personality himself. He frightened himself into returning to his body for he had been away from it too long. He was dilly-dallying where he did not belong, and he was getting into realities that did not concern him. He was like a truant so he caused the hallucination so that he would return to his body. Now the nature of the hallucination was his own doing. He used his own fears to cause the hallucination. He was not discriminate. He was not using his common sense. He knew it was time to return to the body, and he decided to stay out of it despite the nature of inclination to return, and so he made a nightmare for himself to frighten himself home like the errant boy that he was. And in almost all cases this is what occurs.

Now bodies are not at such a high premium. They are not as valuable as you may suppose. There are simply not that many personalities anxious for physical existence. You put a very high premium upon your physical life. In many cases, however, those who have left it are glad to leave it behind. They are not all that anxious to get back in.

Now I have told you often that demons, in those terms, do not exist. If you perceive them, then they are the materializations of your own fears. When you realize this you are freed of such material izations. If you perceive them, you know what they are. There is no evil that you do not create. There are no more spooks running around in my universe than there are in yours, and many of yours are far spookier. The spirit of creativity is very strong, and you create those aspects in which you believe and again, watch your beliefs.

Now, as Ruburt mentioned earlier, we have some strong elements present. You can, indeed, be involved in some group out-of-body endeavors. Now all of you can be involved to some degree or another but you must want to be involved. You must desire the experience or you will not have it. It does no good to tell yourselves that you will leave your body fifty times before you sleep, if in the back of your skull you are thinking, I am terrified. The inner self will put up a caution light. You are not ready.

Creativity cannot exist in the midst of fears that are prohibitive. Fears are restrictive and they hold you back. On the other hand, if you allow yourselves freedom, if you give your inner selves freedom, then, indeed, you can leave your bodies happily, safely and easily. Some of you are ready, and this has nothing to do with the amount of time you have spent in class. It has to do with your sense of inner freedom."

The Early Class Sessions, book 2, ESP Class Session, October 6, 1970 - by Jane Roberts © L. Davies Butts
https://www.facebook.com/groups/8461791483/permalink/10157005795101484/
 





Joined
Mar 15, 2017
Messages
3,810
Likes
6,408
#4
Hmm, I did suffer of Sleep Paralysis for more than 7 years around the time I had tried meditation and I did have plenty of paranormal occurrences in my then home and in my later appartment too. However I don't recall if they really started after my first meditation or not, because it was almost a decade ago and my memory isn't what it used to be.
I'm pretty sure I got possessed because of this New Age garbage, though. There's a teacher (I don't know if I should say her name) which kept repeating that "what you resist, persists'', and let's just say I eventually took her advice and started resisting less and less to something that kept making its presence known since I was little, first in my dreams, and then during meditations and during Sleep Paralysis episodes as well.

I realized I was possessed because of what occured after it dawned on me that the devil and God might be real due to events in my own life and in the world too, and after asking my mother if my grandfather does baptisms at his church.
My mother called in and arranged everything for me to be baptised in a few weeks time. Afterwards, in the time that remained till my baptism, I started trembling continuously and I've had times when I woke up with disturbing marks on my body.
I also had this urge to try to work myself to death so that I wouldn't have to get baptised, and I kept strongly wishing I would fall ill just to eschew this commitment.
I couldn't sleep in the weeks prior to that day and this was unheard of for me, because in spite of my Sleep Paralysis history I've never had any problems falling asleep before, like I used to fall asleep almost as soon as my head hit my pillow, even after experiencing a scary Sleep Paralysis episode I'd sleep like a brick, but not in those, thankfully, short weeks.
There was also this indescribable hatred inside of me.

Finally, I convinced my mother to call in and tell them I'm not coming anymore, and in the second my mother accepted to do just that, I eerily found myself smirking without my accord and feeling immense satisfaction wash over me. Very soon after realizing what was most definitely happening to me I called back and retracted that decision because I was understandably spooked.
I could find a semblance of an explanation for everything that has happened to me up until then. I've tried to explain away even the times when during Sleep Paralysis I made this metallic and perfectly continuous sound that shouldn't be possible with our larynx, it seemed like I didn't breathe when I was producing that demonic sound which felt so, so incredibly wrong on my throat.
I could try to justify everything, no matter how thin those explanations were, but not my body moving without me.



Interesting logo that Actualized website has BTW, they're not trying to hide at all anymore.
You have a very interesting personal story. Thank you for sharing.
From the Christian perspective this is a good introduction to the dangers of meditation http://www.banner.org.uk/dev/tract1.html.

I remembered the early 20th century writer Jessie Penn Lewis did a good book "War of the Saints" from the Charismatic perspective.

The whole book probably is worth reading eventually, but use bible to check quoted verses. For a real time saver use https://www.biblegateway.com/ and cut-and-paste verse/s.
See chapter 4 and 5 on spiritual passivity leading to oppression of Christians. http://articles.ochristian.com/article1668.shtml

It is easy to imagine non-Christians using the same practices getting completely possessed by demons if they fully submit to their presence and suggestions.
 





Joined
Mar 15, 2017
Messages
3,810
Likes
6,408
#5
That quote makes a lot of claims that are to be accepted by literal faith **in the person saying them**- neither supported by facts nor by their faith's own beliefs.

e.g. "...Now I have told you often that demons, in those terms, do not exist. If you perceive them, then they are the materializations of your own fears. When you realize this you are freed of such materializations.... "
???
How would that man explain the many testimonies of people who did such practices and THEN became mentally disturbed, hallucinated, felt like an outside force was controlling them etc.?

If someone had been free of fears beforehand (like people very experienced in meditation) shouldn't they be guaranteed not to have any negative affects at all afterwards?
 





Joined
Apr 12, 2017
Messages
1,246
Likes
1,686
#6
That quote makes a lot of claims that are to be accepted by literal faith **in the person saying them**- neither supported by facts nor by their faith's own beliefs.

e.g. "...Now I have told you often that demons, in those terms, do not exist. If you perceive them, then they are the materializations of your own fears. When you realize this you are freed of such materializations.... "
???
How would that man explain the many testimonies of people who did such practices and THEN became mentally disturbed, hallucinated, felt like an outside force was controlling them etc.?

If someone had been free of fears beforehand (like people very experienced in meditation) shouldn't they be guaranteed not to have any negative affects at all afterwards?
That’s just it. You’re not supposed to believe it. People will believe whatever they want, that’s the whole point. There are a range of experiences available, but the idea is that our own ignorance and fears will always be used in this way to protect us from our own irresponsibility.
 





Stina

Established
Joined
Feb 2, 2018
Messages
106
Likes
213
#7
''Now I have told you often that demons, in those terms, do not exist. If you perceive them, then they are the materializations of your own fears. When you realize this you are freed of such materializations...''
Here's my problem with this: before New Age I didn't really do fear, I was an odd one because I couldn't find good reasons to fear, couldn't understand the point of fear. Proof for this is that before I started listening to New Age teachers I was able to count all the nightmares I've ever had on one hand and still be left with fingers.
After New Age though: nightmares galore and a seemingly unending number of fears and constant paranoia. A 180 degree turn.


You have a very interesting personal story. Thank you for sharing.
From the Christian perspective this is a good introduction to the dangers of meditation http://www.banner.org.uk/dev/tract1.html.

I remembered the early 20th century writer Jessie Penn Lewis did a good book "War of the Saints" from the Charismatic perspective.

The whole book probably is worth reading eventually, but use bible to check quoted verses. For a real time saver use https://www.biblegateway.com/ and cut-and-paste verse/s.
See chapter 4 and 5 on spiritual passivity leading to oppression of Christians. http://articles.ochristian.com/article1668.shtml

It is easy to imagine non-Christians using the same practices getting completely possessed by demons if they fully submit to their presence and suggestions.
I can't cut-and-paste on this Bamboo tablet unfortunately, but I'll still check it out when I'll have the time. Thanks

It's very easy to submit, even when I felt my face move on its own, my first impulse was to ignore it, but thankfully I had had enough of lying to myself that what was happening was perfectly ok. Most people hate to admit they were wrong, especially about something to which you commit yourself like this New Age trend, and if your pride doesn't permit you to recognize that you might have been wrong then you're perfect for the taking.
 





Joined
Mar 15, 2017
Messages
8,152
Likes
12,057
#8
This video from an ex New Ager is dated 31st August 2019.


He goes into a lot of detail about how all these testimonies of horrible experiences were not from newbies, they were from experienced people, well trained in meditation. They knew what they were doing, they had spent a huge amount of time meditating before these experiences started happening.

The video footage of a current New Ager really does make it sound like some people are becoming possessed without realising it.

Any thoughts from people who do meditation themselves, or have done it in the past?
I have known two people who have got into meditation followed by attracting spiritual company who presented themselves as “guides” only to reveal themselves as evil later.

The one guy I knew personally had a Christian family but had taken a very different route and had been involved in meditation and astral travel, which he explained in detail to me. We had a dialogue for some weeks - and then unexpectedly I found out one day he had become a Christian

On coming out of the occult was testifying to his faith in front of a meeting I had been involved with and suddenly, as he was talking, it was as though unseen forces were pushing his body from all sides. We prayed and he pushed in through. I think he went on to get baptised and his life took a different turn.
 





shankara

Established
Joined
Apr 23, 2018
Messages
245
Likes
284
#9
Meditation as a practice involves facing up to the subconscious mind. Obviously as we begin to face up to all the chaotic energy of the subconscious, the subconscious can fight back. So maybe we will go through difficult experiences, I mean if you've ever been on a meditation retreat you'll know that it's not easy. The thing we have to realize is that these problems are a part of the path and that overcoming them is an element of the process.

When it comes to external demonic entities, the Buddhist position is that such things exist so long as we cling to them, which for me means as long as we have the subconscious conflicts and complexes which attract them. Meditating doesn't really cause possession, but it can cause us to see what we are already possessed by - as we bring our problems out into the light it can attract things which would otherwise have left us alone, but this isn't because meditation is a bad practice, it's because hostile forces don't want us to awaken. Anyway it is difficult to discriminate between actual external hostile entities and mere projections of the mind.

I'm a little skeptical about all this New Age stuff. It promises too much and lacks substance. I don't think that it's always a good idea to meditate without some foundation in Buddhism etc, or at least a proper psychological understanding of the process.
 





Joined
Mar 15, 2017
Messages
3,810
Likes
6,408
#11
Joined
Mar 15, 2017
Messages
3,810
Likes
6,408
#12
Meditation as a practice involves facing up to the subconscious mind. Obviously as we begin to face up to all the chaotic energy of the subconscious, the subconscious can fight back. So maybe we will go through difficult experiences, I mean if you've ever been on a meditation retreat you'll know that it's not easy. The thing we have to realize is that these problems are a part of the path and that overcoming them is an element of the process.

When it comes to external demonic entities, the Buddhist position is that such things exist so long as we cling to them, which for me means as long as we have the subconscious conflicts and complexes which attract them. Meditating doesn't really cause possession, but it can cause us to see what we are already possessed by - as we bring our problems out into the light it can attract things which would otherwise have left us alone, but this isn't because meditation is a bad practice, it's because hostile forces don't want us to awaken. Anyway it is difficult to discriminate between actual external hostile entities and mere projections of the mind.

I'm a little skeptical about all this New Age stuff. It promises too much and lacks substance. I don't think that it's always a good idea to meditate without some foundation in Buddhism etc, or at least a proper psychological understanding of the process.
So what experiences, feelings, images, thoughts come to mind when you meditate?
How much are you in control of your situation?
If unpleasant things happen are you going to fight them or accept them as they are occurring ?
 





shankara

Established
Joined
Apr 23, 2018
Messages
245
Likes
284
#13
So what experiences, feelings, images, thoughts come to mind when you meditate?
How much are you in control of your situation?
If unpleasant things happen are you going to fight them or accept them as they are occurring ?
A lot of different stuff comes up, sometimes blissful, sometimes (probably more often) difficult and disturbing.

I don't really think about it as a question of being in control or not. In one sense it's taking control of oneself, in another sense it's giving up to a higher power. Like everything it's dualistic.

When unpleasant things come up you just try to keep sitting, or chanting, or whatever. This is how to develop the inner strength to overcome whatever negativity arises, a source of strength which also remains outside of meditation.
 





Joined
Mar 15, 2017
Messages
3,810
Likes
6,408
#14
A lot of different stuff comes up, sometimes blissful, sometimes (probably more often) difficult and disturbing.

I don't really think about it as a question of being in control or not. In one sense it's taking control of oneself, in another sense it's giving up to a higher power. Like everything it's dualistic.

When unpleasant things come up you just try to keep sitting, or chanting, or whatever. This is how to develop the inner strength to overcome whatever negativity arises, a source of strength which also remains outside of meditation.
If dark and disturbing thoughts are more commonly emerging, are they images/ concepts you already struggle with/ difficult memories from past, or are they completely strange to you - having no relevance whatsoever to your life?
 





shankara

Established
Joined
Apr 23, 2018
Messages
245
Likes
284
#15
If dark and disturbing thoughts are more commonly emerging, are they images/ concepts you already struggle with/ difficult memories from past, or are they completely strange to you - having no relevance whatsoever to your life?
Often images come up which are memories, buried traumas and such. Sometimes there will be negative (or positive) feelings and images without fully understanding the source of them - I think that clarity develops as we keep working but at the same time one should not expect clarity, but just go with the process which is different for everyone.

The subconscious mind is a very chaotic thing. It resists being analyzed, hence why one tries to develop stillness through meditation, without such stillness we're caught up in the process of the mind, unable to observe ourselves.
 





Joined
Apr 12, 2017
Messages
1,246
Likes
1,686
#16
Here's my problem with this: before New Age I didn't really do fear, I was an odd one because I couldn't find good reasons to fear, couldn't understand the point of fear. Proof for this is that before I started listening to New Age teachers I was able to count all the nightmares I've ever had on one hand and still be left with fingers.
After New Age though: nightmares galore and a seemingly unending number of fears and constant paranoia. A 180 degree turn.




I can't cut-and-paste on this Bamboo tablet unfortunately, but I'll still check it out when I'll have the time. Thanks

It's very easy to submit, even when I felt my face move on its own, my first impulse was to ignore it, but thankfully I had had enough of lying to myself that what was happening was perfectly ok. Most people hate to admit they were wrong, especially about something to which you commit yourself like this New Age trend, and if your pride doesn't permit you to recognize that you might have been wrong then you're perfect for the taking.
We like to believe we are in the driver’s seat, but if we don’t “stay in our own lane” so to speak, we will always be swiftly corrected. Usually those who assume they have no fears think so because they are avoiding unrecognized or unacknowledged fears. Those who are more honest with themselves in seeking will know that fear will always be used to demonstrate, to ourselves, our own lack of knowledge.
 





Joined
Apr 12, 2017
Messages
1,246
Likes
1,686
#18
Most people hate to admit they were wrong, especially about something to which you commit yourself like this New Age trend, and if your pride doesn't permit you to recognize that you might have been wrong then you're perfect for the taking.
There is an enormous gap between new ageism and true awareness. New age is another religious trap. It’s no different than any other distraction for people preferring to sleep. In fact it is aimed specifically at awakening people to coax them into favoring soft belief over bold awareness.

There is nothing wrong with it however, it’s just another placeholder for awareness and knowledge. People will always believe whatever authentically suits themselves, suits their attitudes, and their own personal level of awareness. If you just want to fit in and get on with life, that is probably meant to be your path, at least for now. On the other hand, our very mistake is needing something to “follow” in the first place. The idea is that beliefs are used as placeholders for awareness for as long as needed, and until we accept the personal responsibility we will only see the belief that obscures or distorts knowledge in favor of something we can live with.