"Soy Boys", "Toxic Masculinity" - what does it even mean to be a "Real Man"?

TempestOfTempo

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How about




That's exactly what they should do, if you can't contribute to your society, possitively, the very least to do, is not getting in its way.
Study more before repeating what others say so casually. Aisha was among the first to accept Islam, and this was during the prophet's early years with Khadija. But keep repeating that; Moses was r*cist, Jesus was a p*cifist, Muhammad was p*edoerotic (http://thefilmnoirexperience.com/blog1/2010/02/01/oh-sweetie-not-that-kind-of-love/) and Zarathustra was inc*stous, the exact same things a prophet would be against.


Like the followers of "The King"? How about Polanski, nothing says ultra-fundamentalist religious like making a movie in which some innocent looking girl gives birth to the devil's offspring and gets to like it, right?
But you kind of dodged the contention.......
Many people, Muslim and non, contend that Aisha was 8-9 when they were married and then they waited to consummate the marriage for a while until she developed further. But a lot of factual evidence points to her being older than that at the time of the marriage so Id like to ask, which school of thought do you follow in regards to this matter?
 

Vixy

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She is way too smart and has much better typing skills to be me, she deserves likes because she has good reasonable things to say.
Don’t tie her to me though because it’s not fair, she’s a kind decent person and I’m really not :)
Yeeah, that is what a double account would say.
 
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"Two people disagree with me and share similar beliefs. They must be the same person."

I know this is a conspiracy theory forum, but damn... Shit like this is why I more or less only come here to waste time when I'm bored. 'cause that's all anyone really does. No one really cares about trying to learn something new. They just want to reinforce their worldview. Someone disagrees?

Sock puppet account or shill!
 

Vixy

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"Two people disagree with me and share similar beliefs. They must be the same person."

I know this is a conspiracy theory forum, but damn... Shit like this is why I more or less only come here to waste time when I'm bored. 'cause that's all anyone really does. No one really cares about trying to learn something new. They just want to reinforce their worldview. Someone disagrees?

Sock puppet account or shill!
Yeah bc when I suggest it, I'm "being paranoid" but when I'm a suspect of having multiple accounts and is being harrassed over it for year after year, despite evidence of the opposite, they're right and I'm wrong. Funny how it works like that..
 
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Yeah bc when I suggest it, I'm "being paranoid" but when I'm a suspect of having multiple accounts and is being harrassed over it for year after year, despite evidence of the opposite, they're right and I'm wrong. Funny how it works like that..
Maybe people wouldn't "harass" you if you didn't come off so judgemental and self-righteous.

I've had conversations with you in private messages and you're actually a fairly nice person. Kind, caring. But in a lot of your posts in the main forum, you really don't come off that way. You often come off overly judgemental, self-righteous, and fanatical.

I ain't taking sides. To be honest, for the most part, I just come here anymore because I'm bored. VC Forums really aren't the exchange of ideas it used to be. But there's a reason people sometimes are hostile towards you. When you say shit like "I wouldn't listen to a gay dude", it's hard for any conspiracy theorist that ISN'T religiously fundamentalist to call you out.
 

Aazaad

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Id like to ask, which school of thought do you follow in regards to this matter?
Huh? I think my comment clarifies which, the latter (her being older).

So if you don't have a kid you aren't contributing to society?
No, but having, and more imporatantly, properly raising (and if one can't, educating) children is the most important contribution you could have in any society. And if you don't want to do any of them, don't get in the way of those who will.
 

Vixy

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Maybe people wouldn't "harass" you if you didn't come off so judgemental and self-righteous.

I've had conversations with you in private messages and you're actually a fairly nice person. Kind, caring. But in a lot of your posts in the main forum, you really don't come off that way. You often come off overly judgemental, self-righteous, and fanatical.

I ain't taking sides. To be honest, for the most part, I just come here anymore because I'm bored. VC Forums really aren't the exchange of ideas it used to be. But there's a reason people sometimes are hostile towards you. When you say shit like "I wouldn't listen to a gay dude", it's hard for any conspiracy theorist that ISN'T religiously fundamentalist to call you out.
So basically you are saying its okay so harass me bc of my personality and religious believes? Wooow Corvus! I didnt think that about you! Well well, people never cease to surprise! :D I guess in the end everyone shows their true colours. ;)
 

onequestion

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A few months ago I was using a piece of file sharing software. On the upload screen they had a picture of a guy that bothered me. I just didn't take to him. I'm usually pretty easy going as well so I tried to understand what it was about him I wasn't liking...

View attachment 16486

Perhaps it was the fake smile, the waxed moustache or the deliberate pink laptop? I think it was the contrast between him and another guy he reminded me of - Hamish from Braveheart (below right).

View attachment 16487

I got to thinking - what if Hamish had been transported to the 21st Century as a child, and instead of his Highland childhood growing up on the croft, he was instead brought in our society, watching "Modern Family", taught to shun "micro-aggressions", encouraged to sit nicely and avoid "manspreading". In short what if he grew up thinking that being a man was something he should apologise for, and feeling he needed to sign up for a lecture course in Gender theory to compensate for his existence! Would he be simpering clutching a pink laptop rather than a battleaxe?

My friend @Vixy mentioned that the elites want "Soy Boyz and Butch Broads". I couldn't agree more as gender identity is under attack from all directions!

I had to look up "soyboys" as I am too old to be in touch with these kind of memes, but Urban Dictionary helped...

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Soy Boy

^ ***I edited the OP here in case anyone thought that simply attacking these guys was my intention.

It seemed pretty harsh but I could understand how our soyboy got there.

Now - the reason for my thread -

Is there a positive vision of real masculinity (film, music, words or books) that we can offer the to our poor apologetic millennial to help him recapture what it used to mean to be a man?

ummm, first off what is real if we are to follow this thinking and I think in there we can find the answer to what is a real man
 

Red Sky at Morning

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ummm, first off what is real if we are to follow this thinking and I think in there we can find the answer to what is a real man
I opened up the question several pages back as I had a strong reaction to what looked to me like a conflicted and confused man. I am not separate from culture and it made me realise that in many ways I have been assembling a mental scrapbook full of cuttings which define what it is to be a man.

Some of the cuttings were from my own father and extended family, from people I admire or think less of. Yet another lot of cuttings come from the media that surrounded me. Looking back, I can see how this question has been answered in all kinds of ways (many of which are truly contradictory!)

If you had asked my ten year old self, I would have told you it was Clint Eastwood...

s-l300.jpg

Going on a few years, and a few movies later, more imaginary circle of role models jumped out from the silver screen...

killing-machines-4-560.jpg

Somehow things seemed to reach a peak of unrealistic machismo and Arnold with his gattling gun made me wake up a little and wonder if this hard-faced death and glory stuff was not just a line I was being sold.

the-last-stand-header.jpg

A few years later I remember a similar tough guy appearing in a movie but this time he was one of the bad guys, with the hero a guy with a broken body but an open heart.

cf02d8e91efbdf59166b95fa1fa1bbf0.jpghero_EB20091211REVIEWS912119998AR.jpg

I can see now that much of the picture of what it means to be a "real man" has been a process of stereotypes, redefinition and reaction. In some ways it reminds me of the hegalian dialectic as one type of masculinity pushes off against an older image it rejects.

So, beyond having a Y chromosome, what is a man? Beyond the centuries of redefinitions and heroes, was "man" an idea that his maker had or is he just some sociological adaption of "maleness" to the world he finds himself in?
 

lovesoul

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Last edited:

TempestOfTempo

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Huh? I think my comment clarifies which, the latter (her being older).


No, but having, and more imporatantly, properly raising (and if one can't, educating) children is the most important contribution you could have in any society. And if you don't want to do any of them, don't get in the way of those who will.
Ok let me re-phrase that, what age do you believe Aisha was when she and Muhammad were married?
 

Aazaad

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Ok let me re-phrase that, what age do you believe Aisha was when she and Muhammad were married?
I haven't thoroughly studied, but based on what I have read, at the very least above ten. It is said that she was among the first to accept (not born into or sth) Islam, so she must have had some consent, and the prophet was married to Khadija 10 years after Bi'thah, and there's Sawda, it just doesn't make sense.
 

Red Sky at Morning

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I haven't thoroughly studied, but based on what I have read, at the very least above ten. It is said that she was among the first to accept (not born into or sth) Islam, so she must have had some consent, and the prophet was married to Khadija 10 years after Bi'thah, and there's Sawda, it just doesn't make sense.
Perhaps it is due to the fact that Sahih al-Bukhari was written some considerable time after the actual events?
 
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So basically you are saying its okay so harass me bc of my personality and religious believes? Wooow Corvus! I didnt think that about you! Well well, people never cease to surprise! :D I guess in the end everyone shows their true colours. ;)
That's not what I said or implied.

I'm saying people tend to be snarky or combative to you since you have no finesse with how you share your religious views. "I believe homosexual acts are sinful". That's cool. Some people might disagree but most would be cool.

But when you say shit like "I wouldn't listen to someone who rams another man", it crosses the line from religious belief into bigotry since that sort of language isn't nessecairy. But hey, think I'm attacking you. Even though I said I think you're a good person just tend to come off abrasive in the forums I can't stop you from thinking like that and I don't care to.
 

Vixy

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That's not what I said or implied.

I'm saying people tend to be snarky or combative to you since you have no finesse with how you share your religious views. "I believe homosexual acts are sinful". That's cool. Some people might disagree but most would be cool.

But when you say shit like "I wouldn't listen to someone who rams another man", it crosses the line from religious belief into bigotry since that sort of language isn't nessecairy. But hey, think I'm attacking you. Even though I said I think you're a good person just tend to come off abrasive in the forums I can't stop you from thinking like that and I don't care to.
Corvus, let me tell you somehing about friendship.. A true friend that sees the need to criticize a friend, doesnt do it in front of enemies but in private because it can de degrading. I think you are aware of this.
 
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