Some simple questions about the "trinity" that no "Christian" seems to be able to answer

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John 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come [again] unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for MY FATHER IS GREATER THAN I.

Shows a humble not prideful being.
exactly. The fact that the FIRST WORDS of the book of John say that Christ was with God and was God in the beginning make every conclusion from later in the book, that freeman tries to make saying Jesus was not divine, ridiculous. It’s established in the very first words. The fact that Jesus prays to God etc changes nothing about what was established in those first words. There’s just no reasoning your way out of those words by inferring from passages later that those words are lies, like a freeman feels a need to do.
 

A Freeman

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I agree that the Father is greater than the Son, that they are not co-equal. But dont you know that unequal portions could still be equated to 1?
How can anyone be an unequal portion of The Most High God (Father)? And where does it say anywhere in Scripture that two or three individuals are really unequal portions of one individual? Or do you believe God is a group? And why would Christ call Father His God? Why would Paul reiterate that by saying the head of Christ is God (Father)?

And again, why did Christ, while He was here in the body of Jesus, pray to Father unless Father IS God? Shouldn't we be following Christ's Example? That was and still is the entire point of this thread (pointing out that obedience to Father by following Christ's Example is The Way that leads to Life, which very few find).
 
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A Freeman

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John 17:3 And THIS is Life Eternal, that they might KNOW Thee the ONLY True God, and Christ the Saviour, whom Thou hast sent.
 
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Question: Shouldn't we all be following The Example of Jesus (John 14:6) rather than the example of men?

Question: When did Jesus ever worship or pray to anyone or anything other than Father alone?

Question: Didn't Jesus consider Father to be The One True God and thus His God (Matt. 27:46, John 17:3, John 20:17, Rev. 3:12), without Whom Jesus said He could do be nothing (John 5:30) even though with God, ALL things are possible (Matt. 19:26).

Question: You do wish to follow Jesus' Example, do you not?
Let me answer your questions
1.yes
2. Jesus prayed to the father
3.yes
4.yes
none of these disprove the trinity
What needs to be made clear is that Father (God, Whose Name in Hebrew is YHWH or, in English, the “I AM”), speaks, works and saves THROUGH His Angel/Word/Redeemer/Holy Spirit, Whom God Himself does refer to as a “Saviour”:

Isaiah 63:7-11
63:7 I will mention the lovingkindnesses of the "I AM", [and] the praises of the "I AM", according to all that the "I AM" hath bestowed on us, and the great goodness toward the House of Israel, which He hath bestowed on them according to His mercies, and according to the multitude of His lovingkindnesses.
63:8 For He said, Surely they [are] My people, children [that] will not lie: so He was their Saviour.
63:9 In all their affliction He was afflicted, AND THE ANGEL OF HIS PRESENCE SAVED THEM: in His love and in His pity He redeemed them; and He bare them, and carried them all the days of old.
63:10 But they rebelled, and vexed His Holy Spirit: therefore He was turned to be their enemy, [and] He fought against them.

Exodus 23:20-23
23:20 Behold, I send an Angel before thee, to keep thee in The Way (John 14:6), and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared.
23:21 Beware of him, and OBEY HIS VOICE (Rev. 19:6), provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions: for My name [is] in him.
23:22 But if thou shalt indeed obey his voice, and do all that I speak (THROUGH him); then I will be an enemy unto thine enemies, and an adversary unto thine adversaries.
23:23 For Mine Angel shall go before thee, and bring thee in unto the Amorites, and the Hittites, and the Perizzites, and the Canaanites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites: and I will cut them off.


Moses and the Exodus from slavery in Egypt to freedom under The Law foreshadowed both the First and Second Coming of The Messiah/Angel/Word/Messenger of God, sent to teach and keep us in The Way, and to bring us home, to the Promised Land.

Isaiah 19:20-21
19:20 And it shall be for a sign and for a witness unto the "I AM" Lord of hosts in the land of Egypt: for they shall cry unto the "I AM" because of the oppressors, and He SHALL send them a Saviour, and a great one, and he shall deliver them.
19:21 And the "I AM" shall be known to Egypt, and the Egyptians shall know the "I AM" in that day, and shall do sacrifice and oblation; yea, they shall vow a vow unto the "I AM", and perform [it].

-------

References to The Angel of the “I AM” (YHWH in Hebrew) in the Books of Moses:

Genesis 16:7-12, 21:17, 22:11-12, 22:15-18, 24:7, 24:40, 31:11-12, 48:16

Exodus 3:2, 14:19, 23:20-23, 32:34, 33:2

Numbers 22:22-27, 22:31-35


References to The Word of the “I AM” (YHWH in Hebrew) in the Books of Moses:

Genesis 15:1-5

Exodus 9:20-21


Numbers 3:16, 3:51, 4:45, 15:31, 22:18, 36:5

Deuteronomy 5:5


Exodus 9:20-21 (compare with Exodus 23:20-23 above)
9:20 He that feared the Word of the "I AM" among the servants of Pharaoh made his servants and his cattle flee into the houses:
9:21 And he that respected not the Word of the "I AM" left his servants and his cattle in the field.

There are, of course, scores of other references throughout the rest of the Old Covenant where God speaks THROUGH The Word/Angel of the “I AM” to all of the Prophets.
You showed yourself here that there are multiple times throughout the Bible that the Unmanifested, Unknown Father manifests and acts in creation through The Angel of the I Am. This angel is not the unmanifested God, it is His aspect and counterpart in creation, the Logos and the Holy spirit.

Because the Word WAS God and WAS WITH God in the beginning, that says that God has a second aspect, the Logos, through which He lives in creation. Furthermore, the Holy Spirit that descended into the disciples IS A PART of God, is divine. If you deny this, you are saying that the Holy Spirit is a counterfeit spirit that is not a part of God, which is absurd. It would also be absurd to say that the One, the Unmanifested is in manifestation. He is in manifestation through the logos and the Holy Spirit. No man has seen the father at any time, Jesus says. He also says whoever has seen me has seen the father.

it is just not true biblically that the word and the Holy Spirit are not divine and are not a part of God. That is why Christian saints, prophets and visionaries have always understood the triune aspect of God, its from direct logic and in concordance with the scripture.
 
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Yahda

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I like this one from the OT…

Micah 5:2 - King James Version
2 But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.

Just one word, but it shatters Adoptionism and shows that Jesus shares God’s eternality.

p.s. For @A Freeman

I found the same verse in the version you like!

5:2 But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, [though] thou be little among the thousands of Judah, [yet] out of thee shall he come forth unto me [that is] to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth [have been] from of old, from everlasting.

This is the precept to what you posted. As the Bible says David will be KING!!

12 Now DAVID was the son of an Ephrathite named Jesse, who was from Bethlehem(C)in Judah. Jesse had eight sons, and in Saul’s time he was very old.


Ezekiel 37:24 And David my servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them.
25 And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children's children for ever: and my servant David shall be their prince FOR EVER!!!!.
 
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Red Sky at Morning

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This is the precept to what you posted. As the Bible says David will be KING!!

12 Now DAVID was the son of an Ephrathite named Jesse, who was from Bethlehem(C)in Judah. Jesse had eight sons, and in Saul’s time he was very old.


Ezekiel 37:24 And David my servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them.
25 And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children's children for ever: and my servant David shall be their prince for ever.
So David had existed from eternity past? An intriguing doctrine @Yahda
 

Yahda

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So David had existed from eternity past? An intriguing doctrine @Yahda
It’s just mean from an old blood line. But as far as who was there in the beginning, the Christian’s favorite go to verse was WISDOM. Also referred to as a SHE.

Proverbs 8:22
The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.
23I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.
24When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water.
25Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth:
26While as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor the highest part of the dust of the world.
27When he prepared the heavens, I wasthere: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth:
 
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A Freeman

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The Hebrew word/name "David" means "Well-Beloved".

There are two places in the Book of Ezekiel, where the word/name "David" has been left untranslated into English, either intentionally or out of ignorance, which renders those verses incoherent, as king David had been dead several hundred years before those verses were written down by Ezekiel.

Please see those verses below, with the Hebrew word/name "David" translated into English.

Ezekiel 34:23 And I will set up One shepherd over them, and he shall feed them, [even] My "Well-Beloved" servant; he shall feed them, and he shall be their shepherd.

Ezekiel 37:24 And My Well-Beloved servant [shall be] King over them; and they all shall have One shepherd: they shall also walk in My Judgments, and observe My Statutes, and DO them.

The One Shepherd (John 10:1-18) and "Well-Beloved" servant is obviously Christ, exactly as Father (God) told us (Hos. 3:5, Isa. 5:1, Jer. 30:9; see also: Matt. 3:17, 12:18, 17:5, Mark 1:11, 9:7, 12:6, Luke 3:22, 9:35, 20:13).
 

A Freeman

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Micah 5:2-4
5:2 But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, [though] thou be little among the thousands of Judah, [yet] out of thee shall he come forth unto me [that is] to be ruler in Israel; WHOSE GOINGS FORTH [have been] from of old, from everlasting.
5:3 Therefore will He (Father) give them up, until the time [that] she which travaileth hath brought forth (Rev. 12:3-6): then the remnant of his brethren (Rom. 8:28-29)shall return unto the children of Israel.
5:4 And he shall stand and feed in the strength of the "I AM", in the Majesty of the name of the "I AM" his God; and they shall abide: for now shall He be great unto the ends of the earth.

Revelation 12:3-6
12:3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
12:4 And his tale (of lies - John 8:35) drew the third part of the "Stars" (ch. 9:1) of heaven (into his army), and did (cause them to be) cast to the Earth (for their treason against God): and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born (Christ - Second Coming).
12:5 And she brought forth a Man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and [to] His Throne.
12:6
And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred [and] threescore "days" (years).

Romans 8:28-29
8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to [His] purpose.
8:29 For whom He did foreknow, He also did predestinate [to be] conformed to the image of His Son, that he might be THE FIRSTBORN among many brethren.

It is the PROPHECY of The Messiah/Christ, and what The Messiah/Christ will do, that has been from old, from everlasting. Micah 5:2 is very obviously NOT saying that The Messiah/Christ existed before the beginning; only that those prophecies existed in Father's Mind before anything was ever created, including The Messiah/Christ, Whom God created/made FIRST.

Father (God) does NOT have siblings/brethren; The Messiah/Christ on the other hand, has MANY BRETHREN, aka the Angels, sons of God, children of God, i.e. the rest of the spiritual-Beings/Souls created after Father created/made His Firstborn/Eldest Son.

Colossians 1:12-15
1:12 Giving thanks unto THE FATHER (NOT some pagan "trinity"), Which hath made us meet to be sharers of the inheritance of the holy people in Light:
1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated [us] into The Kingdom of His dear Son (His "Well-Beloved"):
1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, [even] the forgiveness of sins:
1:15 Who is the IMAGE of the invisible God, THE FIRSTBORN OF EVERY CREATURE:
 

A Freeman

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The term "born" means "brought into existence". This term can NEVER be applied in any shape, way or form to the self-existing THE ONE TRUE GOD, The God and Father of Christ. Father (The One True God) has no beginning nor any end.

Colossians 1:12-15
1:12 Giving thanks unto THE FATHER (NOT some pagan "trinity"), Which hath made us meet to be sharers of the inheritance of the holy people in Light:
1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated [us] into The Kingdom of His dear Son (His "Well-Beloved"):
1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, [even] the forgiveness of sins:
1:15 Who is the IMAGE of the invisible God, THE FIRSTBORN OF EVERY CREATURE:

This verse simply cannot be interpreted in multiple ways. It is not "symbolic" or "metaphoric"; it is LITERAL. And it is literally proof that Christ is NOT God, because Father (God) CREATED/MADE Christ, and made Christ FIRST.

The term "image" means "a likeness" of someone or something; it is NOT the actual or original individual the image is based upon, by definition.

The term "invisible" means "that which cannot be seen". Everyone around Jesus saw Jesus. Jesus obviously wasn't invisible. What most people didn't see though was the spiritual-Being Christ WITHIN Jesus (John 1:10). Who earns that privilege is determined by Father alone (Matt. 11:27). Peter serves as an example in this regard (Matt. 16:16-17).

The term "firstborn" means "the first to be brought into existence".

The term "creature" means "a created, living being".

Father (God) is NOT a created Being, nor is any part of God a created Being. ALL of God's Children though ARE created Beings. And the first of those created Beings, "aka the Sons of God" is The Messiah/Christ, exactly as it says in Scripture (LITERALLY).

Revelation 3:14 And unto THE ANGEL of the community of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the Faithful and True Witness (Christ - Rev. 1:5), THE BEGINNING OF THE CREATION OF GOD;
 
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Christinity has been created in Vatican. Trynity -- pyramid. Why do even bother that have nothing to Aryan culture at all?
Interesting you should mention the pyramid as it's all derived from the same type of (satan/pagan) worship that was in Babylon. As in the article I posted, it references these pictures to describe the triad/pyramid origin:






What's even stranger is I realized the shapes that are rooted in the trinity are reminiscent of the Olympics and Mickey Mouse, which I thought was telling, not to mention the obsession with the number "3" and "6".
 

Red Sky at Morning

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Interesting you should mention the pyramid as it's all derived from the same type of (satan/pagan) worship that was in Babylon. As in the article I posted, it references these pictures to describe the triad/pyramid origin:






What's even stranger is I realized the shapes that are rooted in the trinity are reminiscent of the Olympics and Mickey Mouse, which I thought was telling, not to mention the obsession with the number "3" and "6".
My question - to nobody in particular… if Satan was with God from the creation of the “sons of God”, does it seem possible that he would understand who God is and if there is in fact a triune godhead?

It is an idea that has suggested itself to me from time to time. If so, it seems unsurprising that mimics and counterfeits would emerge under religions and spiritualities under his sway.
 
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My question - to nobody in particular… if Satan was with God from the creation of the “sons of God”, does it seem possible that he would understand who God is and if there is in fact a triune godhead?

It is an idea that has suggested itself to me from time to time. If so, it seems unsurprising that mimics and counterfeits would emerge under religions and spiritualities under his sway.
You quoted me so I'm making the broad assumption that you are asking me. I think you need to read the article in order to understand the satanic roots of the trinity, I did. Much of what's being posted appears to be a lot cognitive dissonance to justify their "emotional home", albeit, indoctrination.
 

Maldarker

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My question - to nobody in particular… if Satan was with God from the creation of the “sons of God”, does it seem possible that he would understand who God is and if there is in fact a triune godhead?

It is an idea that has suggested itself to me from time to time. If so, it seems unsurprising that mimics and counterfeits would emerge under religions and spiritualities under his sway.
of course it would emerge!
 

A Freeman

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Interesting you should mention the pyramid as it's all derived from the same type of (satan/pagan) worship that was in Babylon. As in the article I posted, it references these pictures to describe the triad/pyramid origin:






What's even stranger is I realized the shapes that are rooted in the trinity are reminiscent of the Olympics and Mickey Mouse, which I thought was telling, not to mention the obsession with the number "3" and "6".
Agreed about the religious pyramid scheme being derived from the same type of (satan/pagan) worship that was in Babylon. The Romans are the direct descendants of the Babylonians (the only race of people to destroy Solomon's Temple), so it shouldn't be surprising that the Roman Catholic church (RCC) incorporated the "trinity" into their newly minted organized religion.

There are plenty of satanic "new" world order pyramid schemes to be found in every sector.

1663781055493.png
Source:
 

Karlysymon

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My question - to nobody in particular… if Satan was with God from the creation of the “sons of God”, does it seem possible that he would understand who God is and if there is in fact a triune godhead?

It is an idea that has suggested itself to me from time to time. If so, it seems unsurprising that mimics and counterfeits would emerge under religions and spiritualities under his sway.
Excellent thought!

I had purposefully chosen to stay out of this thread but Red's post has sucked me in and provoked this train of thought!

For both sides arguing about the deity of Christ...it's best to take a trip to the throne room in heaven to see what happens there. We have a faithful representation of what to expect when we get there! Revelation chapters 4 & 5. (esp 4:9-10, 5:8,13,14).
The 4 living creatures described in Revelation also appear in chapter 1 of Ezekiel...described as Cherubim in chapter 10. If you feel so inclined, consider the throne room scene described in Isaiah 6 as well as Daniel 7:9-14

If Cherubim, that encircle God's throne, fall down in worship, day & night, before God and the Lamb then it stands to reason that Lucifer, as a guardian cherub (Ezekiel 28:14), also used to fall down in worshipping Him "who is before all things and in Him all things hold together." (Colossians 1:17)

Those not prepared to bow down and worship the Son of Man (Daniel 7:14), just give us a heads up.

Study your bibles, people! :)
 

Red Sky at Morning

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Excellent thought!

I had purposefully chosen to stay out of this thread but Red's post has sucked me in and provoked this train of thought!

For both sides arguing about the deity of Christ...it's best to take a trip to the throne room in heaven to see what happens there. We have a faithful representation of what to expect when we get there! Revelation chapters 4 & 5. (esp 4:9-10, 5:8,13,14).
The 4 living creatures described in Revelation also appear in chapter 1 of Ezekiel...described as Cherubim in chapter 10. If you feel so inclined, consider the throne room scene described in Isaiah 6 as well as Daniel 7:9-14

If Cherubim, that encircle God's throne, fall down in worship, day & night, before God and the Lamb then it stands to reason that Lucifer, as a guardian cherub (Ezekiel 28:14), also used to fall down in worshipping Him "who is before all things and in Him all things hold together." (Colossians 1:17)

Those not prepared to bow down and worship the Son of Man (Daniel 7:14), just give us a heads up.

Study your bibles, people! :)


Revelation 4:8 - King James Version

8 And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come.
 

Red Sky at Morning

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You quoted me so I'm making the broad assumption that you are asking me. I think you need to read the article in order to understand the satanic roots of the trinity, I did. Much of what's being posted appears to be a lot cognitive dissonance to justify their "emotional home", albeit, indoctrination.
I have interacted with many deceivers in my life, and at the top of their dreary little pyramid is the father of lies. Sometimes he inverts the truth, other times he twists and mimics. Perhaps the dual meaning of Antichrist illustrates this - against and instead of.
 
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I have interacted with many deceivers in my life, and at the top of their dreary little pyramid is the father of lies. Sometimes he inverts the truth, other times he twists and mimics. Perhaps the dual meaning of Antichrist illustrates this - against and instead of.
I honestly don't see your point... Don't make the issue verbose or twist it to make affirm a confirmation bias.
 

A Freeman

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Revelation 4:8 - King James Version

8 And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come.
From the King of kings' Bible:-

Revelation 4:7-8
4:7 And the first beast [was] like a lion (Judah), and the second beast like a calf (Ephraim), and the third beast had a face as a man (Reuben), and the fourth beast [was] like a flying eagle (Dan).
4:8 And the four beasts had each of them six wings about [him]; (three tribes) and [they were] full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come.
 
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