So.... The Revelation 12 Sign!

[Karlysymon]

@Karlysymon ...

Your post made me smile - then got me thinking... I grew up through all this!

The first time I heard anyone get excited by a "date" was a book called "88 reasons why the Rapture will occur in 1988" - still available on Amazon btw!!!

With each following confident prediction - 2000, 2012, 2015, 2016 etc, (each with a carefully selected set of reasons) those claiming to be in the know would be unclear on the distinction between possibility, likelihood and certainty. I remember becoming very scornful of "doom and gloom" Christians who would look at world events with in a knowing, grave mood.

I think, in doing so they gradually made the whole notion of "The Rapture" a bit of a joke. I learned a lot about human nature from studying the Hegelian Dialectic and I can see how offputting such foolishness would be!

Each time "Wolf" was cried, more people I knew would become dissallusioned with the whole idea...

We may laugh now but it made me think about Noah's contemporaries. Image the the publications a year or two before D-Day! The one thing i will absolutely hate when the economy crashes and trying times become the norm will be prosperity-gospel preachers. They are at it now, selling false-hope, imagine that then, it'll be amplified like a 1000 times. They will take advantage of peoples' desperation, faith and prey on them, crying peace, peace when there is no peace.

 

[Raquel]

There's a plent of stuffs being spread on internet. The Rapture is unbiblical because was a wrong interpretation of the scriptures, that's it.
You can disagree, of course. This is I have seeing on Internet, and this isn't true.

 

[Raquel]

Something is going to happen in the sky. That's why Nasa already sent a new super shining telescope to space.

 

[Rita]

Isaiah 66 mentions the earth being God's footstool, the strong delusion, and the woman in labor a la Revelations 12. The earth being God's footstool is the flat earth ministry, very active and bringing many Christians into the fold by showing atheists and agnostics that they have been lied to their whole lives and that the bible, including geocentric passages, makes perfect sense. The strong delusion ministry is very active - if you go to the EYA channel on youtube you will see what i mean. Isaiah 11:6 used to say, And the lion shall lay down with the lamb and the bear shall eat grass like the ox and the child shall play on the hole of the asp and nothing shall harm nor destroy in all My holy mountain. Now it says the wolf will dwell with the lamb, and the wolf is satan who is irredeemable. The third alive and well ministry, the most popular of the 3 I think, is the Revelations 12 sign that very well could point to the rapture, and it is also included in Isaiah 66. It's no coincidence! This is the end of the church age. Let the righteous be righteous still, and let the unjust be unjust still.

 

[Dmitri]

The Rapture is unbiblical because was a wrong interpretation of the scriptures, that's it.
You can disagree, of course. This is I have seeing on Internet, and this isn't true.

If the rapture is unbiblical, could you explain Matthew 24:39-41 to me:
39 And they were oblivious, until the flood came and swept them all away. So will be the coming of the Son of Man.
40 Two men will be in the field: one will be taken and the other left.
41Two women will be grinding at the mill: one will be taken and the other left

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

If the rapture is unbiblical, could you explain Matthew 24:39-41 to me:
39 And they were oblivious, until the flood came and swept them all away. So will be the coming of the Son of Man.
40 Two men will be in the field: one will be taken and the other left.
41Two women will be grinding at the mill: one will be taken and the other left

Widening it out a bit, I find that some people wish to down-play Paul in their understanding of the Gospel. In doing so, what appears to happen is that the words of Jesus are used, but not his actions or his death and resurrection. In doing so, much of the meaning and significance of what he says is missed because the correct understanding of His words is unlocked through his ministry.

Many people take Jesus words in Matthew 24, said to Jewish guys and apply that as the final word to the Church. As I read the Bible, Paul was given revelations of the Gospel of grace to the gentiles as well as the understanding of the Rapture.

He got this when he was "caught up" himself, and was shown things so wonderful he judged them unlawful for man to utter.

 

[Dmitri]

In this passage, it clearly states what will happen (not when). JESUS died for all of us (Jews first then gentiles). It is because of the unbelief of the Israelites that us gentiles have been invited to the wedding feast. He clearly states what will happen. Many people across many years have tried to twist this to suit their own belief system (or to write books and make a profit). What is upsetting is that many churches do not share the news of the consequences of our actions. Many many people say that GOD is punishing us. Wrong. JESUS became sin and HE was punished on our behalf. Not only did he DIE for us, but IN our place as well. Let's face it. We all are (were) guilty of murdering JESUS. It is because of us that HE came down from Heaven. The choice we make whether to accept HIM or reject HIM will have consequences that last for eternity.

I think (in my humble opinion) why we are so focused on the end times / rapture / trib etc is because (and here I am speaking for myself) that we (I) am tired of all the pain and suffering happening all the time. I just want to go HOME. I suppose that I have a bit of Jonah in me in that I just want to go HOME and could not really care what happens to the folks in Nineveh. Yet, GOD cares about the folks in Nineveh. Until all have heard the GOOD news, it looks like we will be here for some time.

 

[rainerann]

If the rapture is unbiblical, could you explain Matthew 24:39-41 to me:
39 And they were oblivious, until the flood came and swept them all away. So will be the coming of the Son of Man.
40 Two men will be in the field: one will be taken and the other left.
41Two women will be grinding at the mill: one will be taken and the other left

This illustration matches with the illustration in the parable of the wheat and tares. In this parable, the tares are taken first, not the wheat.

So it is basically an assumption that we are making that being taken means being favored. The parable of the wheat and tare indicates that the one left behind is actually the one who is favored (Matthew 13). This matches with what the revelation says about those who remain being able to take part in the first resurrection with Christ when he will reign on the earth for a thousand years. The tares will be taken. The wheat will remain and reign with Christ.

Both these illustrations are referring to the time of harvest spoken of in revelation where two people will be in a field and one will be taken, but they will be taken to the great winepress of his wrath which matches the order given in the parable of the wheat and tares (rev 14:19).

The only other gathering that will happen according to revelation will be when 144,000 are sealed and when christ returns and the ones who are chosen as part of the first resurrection are gathered to share the privilege with the ones who remain after the time of tribulation is over. Then of course at the final judgment.

 

[Karlysymon]

One of my favorite psalms:

Psalm 50:1-6

The Mighty One, God,
the LORD, speaks and summons the earth from the rising of the sun to
where it sets.
From Zion, perfect in
beauty, God shines forth.
Our God comes and WILL NOT BE SILENT; a fire devours before Him, and around Him a tempest rages. He summons the
heavens above, and the earth, that He may judge His people: “Gather to me this consecrated people, who made a covenant with me by sacrifice.”
And the heavens proclaim His righteousness, for He is a God of justice.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

One of my recent favourites has been Isaiah 42 which speaks of Jesus first and second appearing in one chapter...

"13The LORD shall go forth as a mighty man, he shall stir up jealousy like a man of war: he shall cry, yea, roar; he shall prevail against his enemies.

14I have long time holden my peace; I have been still, and refrained myself: now will I cry like a travailing woman; I will destroy and devour at once.

15I will make waste mountains and hills, and dry up all their herbs; and I will make the rivers islands, and I will dry up the pools.

16And I will bring the blind by a way that they knew not; I will lead them in paths that they have not known: I will make darkness light before them, and crooked things straight. These things will I do unto them, and not forsake them.

17They shall be turned back, they shall be greatly ashamed, that trust in graven images, that say to the molten images, Ye are our gods."

There is a lot I could say about this but sometimes it is best to read the Word and come to your own conclusions...

 

[floss]

No one want to stay here and witness God's final masterpiece even if your flesh will get destroyed? I'm don't mind being Father's messenger boy to deliver a final warning before they (nonbeliever) perish. I think this is the best time to see souls get saved. Imagine saving someone while a fireball coming down from Heaven toward you. That's how I'd like to go out. I prefer not to be raptured when my unsaved family and friends are still here. Hopefully the trib will wake them up and be more receptive. I believe in post-trib.

 

[Valerian]

Can we stop with the crazy doomsday fanatics now?

World isnt ending, leave Jesus out of it.

Society is whats ending. As you knew it that is...

 

[floss]

Can we stop with the crazy doomsday fanatics now?

World isnt ending, leave Jesus out of it.

Society is whats ending. As you knew it that is...

You're in Revelation 12 thread... just saying. I agreed, the world isn't ending on sept 23rd if that's what you're saying. Eventually everything will come to an end.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

No one want to stay here and witness God's final masterpiece even if your flesh will get destroyed? I'm don't mind being Father's messenger boy to deliver a final warning before they (nonbeliever) perish. I think this is the best time to see souls get saved. Imagine saving someone while a fireball coming down from Heaven toward you. That's how I'd like to go out. I prefer not to be raptured when my unsaved family and friends are still here. Hopefully the trib will wake them up and be more receptive. I believe in post-trib.

Hi Floss,

I admire your spirit!

Through the centuries, when times have been tough and hopes dim, the thought of just going home has been foremost in Christians minds. When we see God move in power in our own lives and the lives of others we feel like staying!

If we were looking at it as a military campaign, in the end, God is the general and he will deploy us as he wishes, stay or go!

God bless.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

Can we stop with the crazy doomsday fanatics now?

As a potential 'crazy doomsday fanatic' I feel I have to respond ;-)

I like what Paul says in Philippians 1

To Live is Christ

"21For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain. 22But if I live in the flesh, this is the fruit of my labour: yet what I shall choose I wot not. 23For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better: 24Nevertheless to abide in the flesh is more needful for you. 25And having this confidence, I know that I shall abide and continue with you all for your furtherance and joy of faith; 26That your rejoicing may be more abundant in Jesus Christ for me by my coming to you again."

My personal life is really fun right now despite the issues in the world. My desire is to stay and to have more time to help those I care about understand the Gospel, see my kids grow and succeed and all the other good things life brings. My personal desire for 'doomsday' as you put it is pretty low! In addition, having wasted much of my life with ME at the centre, spending more of it with Jesus guiding me sounds good to me!

But it isn't just about me!

I brought up this thread as people were getting stuck on a particular date (i.e. September 23rd) which is never very healthy. There are a number issues here. It is true that a unique alignment is occurring on that date, which bears an uncanny parallel to Revelation 12. It might be pure coincidence, it might not.

Even it it is a divinely instituted alignment, what it signifies may not be something on that day but around that time. Or it might not!

The reason for the thread really was just a place to be aware of the event, open the floor for discussion of possible implications then simply wait and see...

I suspect it's meaning (if it has one) will be far more obvious in retrospect. IF one of the popular interpretations did turn out to be correct, despite views and eschatology to the contrary, this forum may contain far fewer voices able to comment on it helpfully!

Back to the bigger picture, I was listening to this song at the gym and it struck a chord with me.

 

[Dmitri]

I see a few folks here mention that they are pre / post trib. I am not in any way advocating starting a thread about that subject because that is going to lead to some heated debate. Our views may differ but let us respect the viewpoint of the others who differ. Me? I am p....... trib

 

[Dmitri]

http://bloodmoonscoming.com/?m=201709

Interesting read.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

http://bloodmoonscoming.com/?m=201709

Interesting read.

I'm reading...

 

[Camidria]

I see a few folks here mention that they are pre / post trib. I am not in any way advocating starting a thread about that subject because that is going to lead to some heated debate. Our views may differ but let us respect the viewpoint of the others who differ. Me? I am p....... trib

There was a thread about it some time ago:
https://vigilantcitizenforums.com/threads/church-taken-out-pre-wrath.135/

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

Steve Cioccolanti makes some very interesting observations which struck me as quite relevant to our current discussion...