So... are they no-go zones? What you need to know about Sweden's vulnerable areas

Etagloc

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#1
As is so often the case, the truth is more complicated and more mundane than fiction.

I guess "no-go zone" sounds a lot more exciting than "poor neighborhood" or "vulnerable areas" and "risk areas". Pro tip: If any of you are planning to become gangsta rappers, maybe you can spice up your lyrics by saying "keepin' it no-go zone" rather than "keepin' it hood". Someone please get this information to Gucci Mane and Future.

https://www.thelocal.se/20170621/no-go-zones-what-you-need-to-know-about-swedens-vulnerable-aeas

So... are they no-go zones? What you need to know about Sweden's vulnerable areas


A police car in the Lindängen area of Malmö. Photo: Drago Prvulovic/TT
The Swedish police have released a new report on vulnerable areas in Sweden. The Local takes a closer look at what that actually means.
1. What are these vulnerable areas everyone's talking about?

This debate began in 2015 when the Swedish police released a list of so-called "vulnerable areas" as part of their work to map the situation in some of the country's segregated suburbs. An updated report has now been released, which is likely to be the focus of a lot of discussion in the run-up to Sweden's general election in 2018.

The police definition of a “vulnerable area” is: “a geographically defined area characterized by a low socio-economic status where criminals have an impact on the local community. The impact is linked to the social context in the area rather than a wish to take power and control the community.”

An “especially vulnerable area” is “characterized by social issues and a criminal presence which has led to a widespread disinclination to participate in the judicial process and difficulties for the police to fulfil their mission. The situation is considered acute”.

In especially vulnerable areas religious extremism is often prevalent (terror expert Magnus Ranstorp has told The Local that these are often hotspots for recruitment to militant groups). They are also areas where police regularly have to adapt their methods to the volatile situation and residents often do not report crimes, either out of fear of reprisals or because they think it will not lead to anything.

A “risk area” lies somewhere between the two.

Especially vulnerable areas, according to the police's 2017 report:

Vivalla, Örebro
Gottsunda, Uppsala
Alby, Botkyrka
Fittja, Botkyrka
Hallunda/Norsborg, Botkyrka
Husby, Stockholm
Rinkeby/Tensta, Stockholm
Ronna/Geneta/Lina, Södertälje
Araby, Växjö
Karlslund, Landskrona
Nydala/Hermodsdal/Lindängen, Malmö
Rosengård south of Amiralsgatan, Malmö
Southern Sofielund (Seved), Malmö
Bergsjön, Gothenburg
Biskopsgården, Gothenburg
Gårdsten, Gothenburg
Hammarkullen, Gothenburg
Hjällbo, Gothenburg
Lövgärdet, Gothenburg
Tynnered/Grevgården/Opaltorget, Västra Frölunda
Hässleholmen/Hulta, Borås
Norrby, Borås
Skäggetorp, Linköping

Risk areas

Tjärna Ängar, Borlänge
Oxhagen/Varberga, Örebro
Tureberg, Sollentuna
Dalhem/Drottninghög/Fredriksberg, Helsingborg
Söder, Helsingborg
Holma/Kroksbäck/Bellevuegården, Malmö

Vulnerable areas

Bäckby, Västerås
Brandbergen, Haninge
Jordbro, Haninge
Skogås, Huddinge
Sångvägen, Järfälla
Termovägen, Järfälla
Edsberg, Sollentuna
Bredäng, Stockholm
Hagsätra/Rågsved, Stockholm
Hässelby/Vällingby, Stockholm
Vårberg, Stockholm
Älvsjö/Solberga, Stockholm
Östberga, Stockholm
Rissne/Hallonbergen, Sundbyberg
Fornhöjden, Södertälje
Hovsjö, Södertälje
Finnsta, Upplands Bro
Smedby, Upplands Väsby
Charlottesborg, Kristianstad
Gamlegården, Kristianstad
Hisings Backa, Gothenburg
Rannebergen, Gothenburg
Andersberg, Halmstad
Kronogården/Lextorp, Trollhättan
Fröslunda, Eskilstuna
Lagersberg, Eskilstuna
Skiftinge, Eskilstuna
Råslätt, Jönköping
Hageby, Norrköping
Klockaretorpet, Norrköping
Navestad, Norrköping


Prime Minister Stefan Löfven on a visit to Araby, Växjö, in February 2017. Photo: Mikael Fritzon/TT

2. Are they no-go zones?

Well, not really. This term caught on in international media after it was used by a columnistto label these areas, but police and emergency services have themselves repeatedly rejected it, arguing that these are areas with a higher police presence, if anything. That said, emergency services do often adapt their behaviour, for example by making sure that there is proper back-up, by entering the areas via alternative routes, or by reversing their vehicles into the areas in order to make sure they are able to leave quickly if needed. Emergency services have, for example, been exposed to threats, stone-throwing, or vandalism of their vehicles. But it's not black and white: often, nothing of note happens.

A fire chief in an area which covers some of northern Stockholm's most vulnerable suburbs, including Rinkeby and Tensta, told The Local earlier this year: “We don't have any no-go zones, absolutely not, the opposite in fact. We move around in all areas, with the same force, at the same speed. But sometimes we get indications, or see, that something is not right and then we take precautions.”


Firefighters after riots in Rinkeby in February 2017. Photo: Christine Olsson/TT

3. Why has the number of vulnerable areas increased?

In the police's report from December 2015 the number of vulnerable areas was 53; in the 2017 report the number had increased to 61, with the number of especially vulnerable areas increasing from 15 to 23. Partly, it's because the situation has indeed deteriorated in some of these areas. But the main reason, according to the police themselves, has to do with research: the police have stepped up their work, and data collection, in these areas in recent years, and consequently know more about the situation.

“Primarily it's to do with the police getting better at analyzing and identifying these areas,” criminology expert Manne Gerell of Malmö University, whose research makes up part of the report, explained to The Local.


Police chief Dan Eliasson. Photo: Björn Larsson Rosvall/TT

4. Has it got worse?

Yes and no. There are currently around 5,000 criminals and 200 criminal networks in these vulnerable areas, according to police estimates. In most cases, these are not well-defined 'gangs', but loosely structured and vaguely hierarchical criminal networks. This in itself is nothing new. Sweden has battled gang violence for years. What has changed is that the violence between criminals has escalated: they have gone from shooting their victim in the leg to make a point, to shooting to kill. The general public is not the target – the shootings stem from conflicts within and between gangs – but there have been incidents when innocent bystanders have been harmed or even killed.

The people involved in these conflicts are also getting younger. “Teenagers have both been the victims of and carried out shootings and it happens that children aged around nine help older people transport weapons and narcotics,” reads the police's own report on vulnerable areas.

Should you feel unsafe? Probably not. In general, deadly violence in Sweden has gone downsince the 90s. The number of deadly shootings, however, is up, which can be linked to these criminal gang conflicts.


Police after a shooting in Seved in June. Photo: Johan Nilsson/TT

5. What's life really like in these areas?

That's a complicated question. On the one hand, these areas are not considered vulnerable for nothing. The situation is serious. On the other hand, it's not all bad. For the majority of residents, the truth is that life goes on as normal most of the time. “What's often forgotten is that a lot has actually got better in vulnerable areas and many of those who live there are content, and are not scared,” Malmö University's Gerell told The Local.

A recent report by Sweden's National Council on Crime Prevention (Brå), which keeps statistics on crime, even suggests a positive trend: that fewer people in vulnerable areas are falling victim to crime, men and women alike, and this figure is actually decreasing at a faster rate than in other areas of Sweden.

It is also important for readers to remember how the media narrative works. The media, us included, tend to report incidents when they happen, not when they don't happen. Or as one man who grew up in one of Sweden's most vulnerable areas put it to The Local when we visited the Seved area of Malmö: "There are a lot of people on low incomes with immigrant backgrounds you know, but most young people, the children of parents who have come here, are studying and have jobs. But there's also those who went wrong and ended up outside of society, and then they get all the headlines because no one goes to interview an average young person studying at university. So it's a little bit of seeing what you want to see.”

READ ALSO: How Rinkeby residents feel about the riots


The Local in the Seved suburb in June. Photo: Emma Löfgren/The Local

https://www.vice.com/sv/article/ava...bout-what-its-like-to-live-in-no-go-zones-726

People in Sweden's Alleged 'No-Go Zones' Talk About What It's Like to Live There

Media reports say crime and violence are so rampant in Sweden's "no-go zones" that even the police stay away. But what is life in those neighbourhoods really like?



In a recent interview with Fox Business, American filmmaker Ami Horowitz said he had visited one of Sweden's "30 to 40 no-go zones" – areas in the country where he claims even the police doesn't dare to go. "Everyday, there's gun violence going on," Horowitz said. He also claimed that "Swedish law doesn't apply in these places" and that Stockholm or Sweden (that remains unclear) "has become the r*pe capital of Europe." That last comment can easily be disproven – according to the Swedish Crime Survey, 5,920 rapes were reported in 2015 in Sweden, which is 0.06 percent of the population. In comparison – in England and Wales, for example, that number reflects 0.17 percent of the population. But what about the rest of his claims?

Fox Business isn't the only medium to report on Sweden's apparent no-go zones. Right-wing website Breitbart News wrote in September that Sweden has become so violent that migrants are considering moving back to the war-torn places they fled. The Daily Express wrote the gripping headline: "SWEDEN IN CHAOS: Number of 'no-go zones' INCREASED as police lose control over violence". And in 2014, Swedish newspaper Aftonbladet reported on areas, where "12-year-olds are carrying guns and drugs are sold openly."

These reports likely refer to the 53 geographical areas in Sweden that are listed in an official police report as "vulnerable areas". In these areas, crime and unemployment rates are generally higher than in the rest of the country.

I called the police station in Rinkeby in Stockholm (a "particularly vulnerable area" according to the police report and a "no-go zone" according to Breitbart) and spoke to officer Niclas Andersson. He said there aren't any no-go zones in Sweden. "There are areas with major challenges, like a high crime rate, poverty and little faith in the police or society in general. But calling them "no-go zones" paints an unfair image," he added. "And police do visit these neighbourhoods whenever necessary."

Whether it's the media or the police talking about these neighbourhoods, there's one group we hardly ever hear from – the actual people living there. I went to the Tensta suburb of Stockholm, which has also been labeled a "no-go zone" by Sputnik, Breitbart and Swedish newspaper SvD, to speak with locals about how they feel about the negative headlines circling their homes.


Ailin, 23
"Who are the people writing these stories? The only thing the media report on when it comes to our neighbourhoods is how bleak it is here. It's frustrating. If you google Husby, you'll only find pictures of riots. I'm from here and I know that there's so much more to these areas than riots. Of course you'll feel more unsafe when visiting an area you're unfamiliar with – that's what the media do and then they report on it. I don't feel unsafe here – this is my home and these are my neighbours.

Instead of focusing on one or two crimes in the area, the media should be reporting on why it's unsafe to go places at night, why there's more crime in certain areas – and if the reports are true in the first place. I guess I don't always understand what's going on with the police over here – the place is segregated and a lot of people don't trust the police. But it goes without saying that no one can speak for everyone who lives here."


Agata, 23
"I've talked to people who are afraid to come here because they think Tensta's brimming with criminals – that's what they read in the papers. They shouldn't be afraid. The media talk about Tensta in a way that's not always accurate, but a lot of things are true. When you see a video of a reporter being assaulted, you can't deny it ever happened. But you have to also ask yourself what happened before that assault.

There's violence anywhere in the world and you can get yourself into trouble anywhere. I feel as safe here as I do in Stockholm's city centre and other areas with a better reputation. I find that people are friendlier here, because it's a tight community that looks after each other. We need to ask ourselves how and why segregation, alienation and poverty emerge in some areas and what can be done to prevent it. People here don't trust the government and police, because they feel they're being treated unfairly. How can we change that? That's what the media should be worrying about."


Suhul, 26
"Even our local newspaper usually reports on Tensta in a negative way. There are a lot of immigrants here and the news reflects that segregation. It's difficult to communicate with the police, because they think of us as criminals before they've even met us. But I mean, I love it here. I feel safer here than anywhere else in Stockholm. Tensta isn't some kind of war zone or battlefield. Some young people do hang out on the street and if you're not from here, I can imagine you might think it's unsafe. But I don't think it's worse than anywhere else.

The media should look at these areas from a wider point of view. A couple of years ago, for example, the Turebergs school in Sollentuna [Sollentuna is a risk area] was demolished and now there's a jail in its place. What kind of message does that send?"


Amanda, 23
"I feel like the idea about 'open drug dealing' isn't true at all. I've read so many times that drug dealing occurs on the streets and that people in the community are trying to prevent the police from catching criminals. I've never ever seen that happen. Every time I read about things like that I feel frustrated and worried that people might take it for a truth.

I have never experienced anything that's made me feel insecure or scared here. Rather the opposite. People often approach me for a friendly chat. It's sad that when crime happens here, it blows up out of proportion. The positive commitment people in the area do is rarely considered. For example, parents regularly meet and actively talk with young people who are experienced as 'rowdy'.

I am often asked how I can live in Husby. Well, have you ever been here? Usually, they haven't and it all comes down to prejudice. Everyone I've brought here has changed their mind and realised it's not that bad here as people tend to believe."


Asrin, 27
"I don't think it's dangerous here – I never feel unsafe. Stockholm is very segregated. It's difficult and expensive to move around in this city so if you live in one place, that's where you'll hang out. The media just focus on crime here and the people reading these news stories never come over to see for themselves. So they believe what they read, but it's very one-sided.



People who live and work here don't think of Tensta as a place filled with burning cars and people throwing rocks at each other. Tensta is wonderful. There's an exhibition by artist Natascha Sadr Haghighian called Fuel to the Firegoing on right now at Tensta Konsthall, which explores other perspectives on these areas than just those of the media and police.

I've never been in a situation where I've had to deal with the police, so I can't say how other people feel. There's some violence here and we've had clashesbetween the police and locals. But I think we need to deal with that in a wider context – that's what we're trying to do with the exhibition. It would be nice if journalists did the same."

Police: There are no 'no-go zones' in Sweden

http://sverigesradio.se/sida/artikel.aspx?programid=2054&artikel=6630452

Updated onsdag 22 februari kl 09.50

Published onsdag 15 februari kl 08.30
Police chief: It's more like 'go-go zones' – it's where we work
(5:24 min)


Local police chief Erik Åkerlund in Botkyrka, southern Stockholm. "Welcome to Botkyrka" it says on the poster. Credit: Ulla Engberg/Sveriges Radio
When the police authority a few years ago identified over 50 areas that needed prioritising, it was turned into a story about 'no-go zones' in Sweden. There is no such thing, says local police chief Erik Åkerlund.

A few years ago, as part of the reorganisation of the Swedish police force, the national operations department NOA collated a report in which local police identified over 50 "vulnerable areas," which needed more attention from the police. And just over a year ago, 15 of these areas were identified as "particularly vulnerable." Another handful were deemed to be in the "risk zone."

Three of those areas can be found in Botkyrka, south of Stockholm, where Erik Åkerlund is the local police chief. To him, prioritising in this way was a sensible, "mature" thing to do.

In all cities in western Europe, you can find the questions like we found in these 53 areas. So you have to prioritise. I think it is a mature thing to do," he told Radio Sweden.

Erik Åkerlund was therefore very surprised in 2014 when he read a column by Per Gudmundson in the newspaper Svenska Dagbladet with the headline "55 no-go zones in Sweden."

The police do not use the term 'no-go zones,' but Gudmundson argued it was a good way to describe a place where, quoting the report, "the public in several instances feel that it is the criminals who run the areas" and where "police cannot carry out their job."

The term 'no-go zones' quickly caught on, and it continues to do the rounds in social media today. But Erik Åkerlund thinks this is not a serious way of describing the work they do in the prioritised areas.

For me it is more like 'go-go zones', it is where we work," he said.

He has seen examples from elsewhere in Europe, where police actually do seem to look upon certain areas as no-go zones, meaning that they only enter these areas with a certain sort of vehicles, with special police officers and enforced tactics. This is very far from the Swedish model, which includes outreach work, preventative measures and daily patrols on foot, Åkerlund said.

This is not to say that there are no problems in these areas, there is a reason that they have been defined as 'particularly vulnerable'. But the advantage of the definition is that it has meant a significant rise in resources, said Åkerlund. Today, there are twice as many police officers on the beat in Botkyrka compared to only a year and a half ago.

Listen to the full interview in English with police chief Åkerlund by clicking on the play button above.

This is the first part in a series about the so called 'no-go zones' and the image of Sweden abroad. You can listen to the other parts by clicking on the links below. We visit one of the areas to speak to local residents, and ask the Swedish Institute how reports about the "no-go zones" are affecting the image of Sweden abroad.
 





Etagloc

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btw since this thread is discussing Sweden.... in keeping with the theme of talking about Sweden, I would like to post this clip from The Seventh Seal by the great Swedish film director Ingmar Bergman- one of the greatest directors not only from Sweden but of the entire world.... I really recommend his movies and if you haven't seen them.... you're missing out.... he made great stuff- The Seventh Seal is a classic and I think everyone should see it at least once

 





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according to the Swedish Crime Survey, 5,920 rapes were reported in 2015 in Sweden, which is 0.06 percent of the population
What's 43 percent of 5920?

OUT OF CONTROL: 43% of All Rapes in Sweden Are Committed Against Children
dailywire.com/news/19337/out-control-43-all-rapes-sweden-are-committed-joseph-curl


92% of 'severe' sexual assaults committed by migrants

Sweden has taken in more refugee migrants per capita than any other European nation — and it's really not working out too well.

In 2015, some 160,000 refugees were granted asylum in Sweden, an idyllic Nordic nation of just 10 million. Tens of thousands more were admitted in 2016, most coming from the war-torn nations in the Middle East. In all, hundreds of thousands have swarmed the tiny country.

Since their arrival, crime has skyrocketed. In 2015, there were 112 cases of lethal violence — 33 by shooting, compared to just 17 in 2011. Violence against women also soared, as did sexual assaults. Reported rapes in 2016 rose to 6,570, a 13% rise over 2015. The nation now ranks No. 2 in rapes per capita, Defend Europa reported.

In one particularly heinous assault, a gang of migrants raped a girl and broadcast the attack on Facebook. Two men from Afghanistan were charged.

92% percent of all "severe rapes" in Sweden were carried out by "people with a migratory/asylum background," Defend Europareported.

Now comes a new report from the independent news group that says nearly half the rapes (43%) are committed on children:

The data, which looks at Swedish r*pe figures for the first half of 2017, concludes that 3430 violent rapes were carried out during this period. 1470 (43%) of these rapes were carried out on children (ages 0-17) and 1960 (57%) of these rapes were carried out on adults (ages 18+).

In relation to the child rapes:

88% were carried out on girls.
12% were carried out on boys.

In relation to the adult rapes:

95% were carried on out women.
5% were carried out on men.​

Younger children in particular are being targeted — 55% of the child rapes were carried out on girls less than 14 year-old.

Said Defend Europa: "Considering that the top ten ethnic origins of Sweden’s rapists are: Iraq, Afghanistan, Somalia, Eritrea, Syria, Gambia, Iran, Palestine, Chile and Kosovo; isn’t it time that we started talking openly about the devastating effects of mass open door immigration from the third world?"​
 





Etagloc

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Yeah.... I'm not interested in talking about that sort of stuff... you have sick people in all groups and walks of life and that sort of propaganda is really designed to demonize and dehumanize minorities. I could stoop to that level and bring up stereotypes about people sleeping with their siblings and use actual examples that I am familiar with of that sort of crime.... but I'm not out to dehumanize people based on their ethnic group.

I might criticize the actions of certain governments but that's about criticizing actions of certain governments.... I have no need or desire to try to dehumanize entire races of people.
 





Etagloc

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I thank God. I am not out to make other people seem less than human or to dehumanize others. The intent of this thread was to show the humanity of other people and to combat against the dehumanization and the propaganda based on the intent to make others seem less human.

I am naïve in a sense. I don't really understand how people can promote dehumanization and racism and hatred of minorities and promote hatred and prejudice... I can look at myself in a mirror and not have to deny who I see. I don't have to hide from reality in order to be able to live with myself.

You look at Thunderian's post.... and it is merely a variation of an old racist cliche




how people can bring out these old racist cliches designed to make minorities seem less than human and promote these racist stereotypes and yet be able to live with themselves and look themselves in a mirror..... that is something that is beyond me to understand.
 





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Etagloc

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We now live in a world where facts are dismissed as racist cliché's.
Old racist cliches are old racist cliches. It is a well-documented racist cliche. It's the sort of thing you would expect to see in a movie like Birth of a Nation (the old one- not the new one). It's a well-known and a well-documented cliche.

We live in a world where facts are dismissed in the service of racist agendas.

I mean... you can make assertions and I can make assertions but what I am talking about is an old, well-documented cliche. I mean if we look at the history of groups like the KKK or look at websites like Stormfront.... that's the sort of cliches they regurgitate. I wonder if maybe you're a closet admirer of David Duke.
 





Etagloc

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I mean look at the website you cited

"Defend Europa is a Euro-centric news and opinion website, dedicated to bringing you
uncensored news and discussion on all things European. Defend Europe!"

-that's according to the site itself.

it's not that different from David Duke, Stormfront type stuff. I wouldn't be surprised if you were into that sort of stuff and were looking at white nationalist stuff in other tabs.

"Notes: Founded in 2016, Defend Europa is an Alt-Right White Nationalist organization. According to their about page the Defend Europa website, covers issues like “‘migrant crisis’, the European Union, globalization, and commentary in support of nationalist movements across the continent.” While the owner of website is not mentioned, the about page was published on February 27, 2016 by “Jason Bergkamp“, who’s bio on the site says “Jason Bergkamp is a Dutch based journalist.” According to a Washington Post article Jason Bergkamp is a known supporter of Hitler “In April, Trump retweeted a compliment from an innocuous-looking follower named Jason Bergkamp; a reporter from Fusion quickly discovered that Bergkamp had also praised Hitler.”

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/defend-europa/

and that's the source you cite? that's very revealing.
 





Etagloc

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Maybe you could start a Racism Doesn't Matter campaign. It would be in keeping with the sort of twisted logic you espouse.
 





Etagloc

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Interesting stuff, Thunderian. I knew you were a Zionist but I didn't realize you were into white nationalism. You can tell a lot about a person by the type of company they keep. Apparently this is something from the website you cited:



so apparently that's the type of stuff you're into..... I mean I mention Sweden and you just immediately show up with stuff from a white nationalist website...... even I'm sort of disgusted.... even I didn't think you would go that low
 





Etagloc

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Therefore whatsoever ye have spoken in darkness shall be heard in the light; and that which ye have spoken in the ear in closets shall be proclaimed upon the housetops.

-Luke 12:3
 





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Old racist cliches are old racist cliches. It is a well-documented racist cliche. It's the sort of thing you would expect to see in a movie like Birth of a Nation (the old one- not the new one). It's a well-known and a well-documented cliche.
But when something is a fact, that means it's not a cliché. A cliché would be saying all Middle Eastern immigrants want to do is r*pe people. A fact would be that 92 percent of severe sexual assaults in Sweden are committed by Middle Eastern immigrants. That's astonishing. But let's not talk about that. Let's accuse anyone who wants to even bring it up for discussion a racist. That reminds me of a list someone posted here recently about disinfo. Let's see, what was that rule again? Oh yeah ...

1. Hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil. Regardless of what you know, don't discuss it​

We live in a world where facts are dismissed in the service of racist agendas.
I am not the one dismissing facts here.

I mean... you can make assertions and I can make assertions but what I am talking about is an old, well-documented cliche. I mean if we look at the history of groups like the KKK or look at websites like Stormfront.... that's the sort of cliches they regurgitate. I wonder if maybe you're a closet admirer of David Duke.
There you go again ... multiple infractions there.

4. Use a straw man. Find or create a seeming element of your opponent's argument which you can easily knock down to make yourself look good and the opponent to look bad. Either make up an issue you may safely imply exists based on your interpretation of the opponent/opponent arguments/situation, or select the weakest aspect of the weakest charges. Amplify their significance and destroy them in a way which appears to debunk all the charges, real and fabricated alike, while actually avoiding discussion of the real issues.

5. Sidetrack opponents with name calling and ridicule. This is also known as the primary 'attack the messenger' ploy, though other methods qualify as variants of that approach. Associate opponents with unpopular titles such as 'kooks', 'right-wing', 'liberal', 'left-wing', 'terrorists', 'conspiracy buffs', 'radicals', 'militia', 'racists', 'religious fanatics', 'sexual deviates', and so forth. This makes others shrink from support out of fear of gaining the same label, and you avoid dealing with issues.

12. Enigmas have no solution. Drawing upon the overall umbrella of events surrounding the crime and the multitude of players and events, paint the entire affair as too complex to solve. This causes those otherwise following the matter to begin to lose interest more quickly without having to address the actual issues.
 





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#14
Yeah.... I'm not interested in talking about that sort of stuff... you have sick people in all groups and walks of life and that sort of propaganda is really designed to demonize and dehumanize minorities. I could stoop to that level and bring up stereotypes about people sleeping with their siblings and use actual examples that I am familiar with of that sort of crime.... but I'm not out to dehumanize people based on their ethnic group.

I might criticize the actions of certain governments but that's about criticizing actions of certain governments.... I have no need or desire to try to dehumanize entire races of people.
Indeed, you are quite selective in your bigotry.
 





Etagloc

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But when something is a fact, that means it's not a cliché. A cliché would be saying all Middle Eastern immigrants want to do is r*pe people. A fact would be that 92 percent of severe sexual assaults in Sweden are committed by Middle Eastern immigrants. That's astonishing. But let's not talk about that. Let's accuse anyone who wants to even bring it up for discussion a racist. That reminds me of a list someone posted here recently about disinfo. Let's see, what was that rule again? Oh yeah ...

1. Hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil. Regardless of what you know, don't discuss it​



I am not the one dismissing facts here.



There you go again ... multiple infractions there.

4. Use a straw man. Find or create a seeming element of your opponent's argument which you can easily knock down to make yourself look good and the opponent to look bad. Either make up an issue you may safely imply exists based on your interpretation of the opponent/opponent arguments/situation, or select the weakest aspect of the weakest charges. Amplify their significance and destroy them in a way which appears to debunk all the charges, real and fabricated alike, while actually avoiding discussion of the real issues.

5. Sidetrack opponents with name calling and ridicule. This is also known as the primary 'attack the messenger' ploy, though other methods qualify as variants of that approach. Associate opponents with unpopular titles such as 'kooks', 'right-wing', 'liberal', 'left-wing', 'terrorists', 'conspiracy buffs', 'radicals', 'militia', 'racists', 'religious fanatics', 'sexual deviates', and so forth. This makes others shrink from support out of fear of gaining the same label, and you avoid dealing with issues.

12. Enigmas have no solution. Drawing upon the overall umbrella of events surrounding the crime and the multitude of players and events, paint the entire affair as too complex to solve. This causes those otherwise following the matter to begin to lose interest more quickly without having to address the actual issues.
So you're just going to ignore the fact that you were posting information from a white nationalist website?
 





Joined
Mar 16, 2017
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#19
Yeah.... I'm not interested in talking about that sort of stuff... you have sick people in all groups and walks of life and that sort of propaganda is really designed to demonize and dehumanize minorities. I could stoop to that level and bring up stereotypes about people sleeping with their siblings and use actual examples that I am familiar with of that sort of crime.... but I'm not out to dehumanize people based on their ethnic group.

I might criticize the actions of certain governments but that's about criticizing actions of certain governments.... I have no need or desire to try to dehumanize entire races of people.
No, you're not interested in talking about what your people are doing to mine.

Your thread is bullshit! We have huge problems. I live right in it and when theyre shooting each other to death outside of my door, you're telling me I'm wrong?

Why dont you come here yourself and witness the friggin violence then?

This thread sucks. You don't know anything about this. Swedish people are fleeing the country bc if the chaos here and you tell me "it's not so bad".

Laughable if it wasn't so DUMB.
 





Etagloc

Superstar
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Mar 26, 2017
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#20
lol
You are.
And you're dishonest to boot.

That was in response to this:
You don't even try to present any sort of evidence or logical argument. You just make an inane unsupported assertion. You sound like a kid saying "I know you are but what am I".

And anyone with the slightest bit of sense can see that that comment from Haich was talking about how people are trying to silence the views of minorities. Which is pretty much what you are trying to do.