Should Governments regulate fraudulent religions?

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You seem like someone with the brain power to dig into Bill Cooper, not the conspiracy theorist but the theologian...

https://www.billcooper.org.uk/books/

You might find some things that might make you want to change your first name, just like a famous Saul did a few years back ;-)
I doubt that as I follow a creed that named their enlightened ones Parfait. That is French for Perfect or perfected human thanks to Gnosis.

Religions are just tribal units which were to seek God. They turned into idol worshiping cults and stopped seeking God. God can only be found through argument and my name as well as Parfait are designed to have our views challenged so that we might either learn or teach. We prefer learning as then we gain. When we end in teaching, the other gains. We love and seek to lose arguments and that does not happen much and that is why Christianity used their Inquisitions on us.

They could not our argue us back then and unfortunately, they cannot out argue us today.

Regards
DL
 

Red Sky at Morning

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I doubt that as I follow a creed that named their enlightened ones Parfait. That is French for Perfect or perfected human thanks to Gnosis.

Religions are just tribal units which were to seek God. They turned into idol worshiping cults and stopped seeking God. God can only be found through argument and my name as well as Parfait are designed to have our views challenged so that we might either learn or teach. We prefer learning as then we gain. When we end in teaching, the other gains. We love and seek to lose arguments and that does not happen much and that is why Christianity used their Inquisitions on us.

They could not our argue us back then and unfortunately, they cannot out argue us today.

Regards
DL
As in:

"The consolamentum was a spiritual baptism, as described in the New Testament, where the ritual practice of baptism by water was abrogated and baptism by fire implemented. Only a Parfait ("Perfect one") could administer the consolamentum, which meant that every new Parfait stood at the end of a chain of predecessor Parfaits linking him or her to the apostles and to Jesus himself.

It was the most significant ceremony in Cathar theology, marking the transition from ordinary believer (auditore or credente) to a Parfait, one of the elect. During the ceremony the Holy Spirit was believed to descend from heaven, and inhabit the Parfait's corporal body. It was largely because of this indwelling of the Holy Spirit that Parfaits were expected and willing to lead such ascetic lives, and why ordinary believers were prepared to "adore" them."

http://gnosis.org/library/Consolamentum.html

Would I be right in thinking that you refer to the persecution of the Cathars by the pope?

Albigensian Crusade, Crusade(1209–29) called by Pope Innocent III against the Cathari, a dualist religious movement in southern France that the Roman Catholic Church had branded heretical. The war pitted the nobility of staunchly Catholic northern France against that of the south, where the Cathari were tolerated and even enjoyed the support of the nobles. Although the Crusade did not eliminate Catharism, it eventually enabled the French king to establish his authority over the south.

 
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As in:

"The consolamentum was a spiritual baptism, as described in the New Testament, where the ritual practice of baptism by water was abrogated and baptism by fire implemented. Only a Parfait ("Perfect one") could administer the consolamentum, which meant that every new Parfait stood at the end of a chain of predecessor Parfaits linking him or her to the apostles and to Jesus himself.

It was the most significant ceremony in Cathar theology, marking the transition from ordinary believer (auditore or credente) to a Parfait, one of the elect. During the ceremony the Holy Spirit was believed to descend from heaven, and inhabit the Parfait's corporal body. It was largely because of this indwelling of the Holy Spirit that Parfaits were expected and willing to lead such ascetic lives, and why ordinary believers were prepared to "adore" them."

http://gnosis.org/library/Consolamentum.html

Would I be right in thinking that you refer to the persecution of the Cathars by the pope?

Albigensian Crusade, Crusade(1209–29) called by Pope Innocent III against the Cathari, a dualist religious movement in southern France that the Roman Catholic Church had branded heretical. The war pitted the nobility of staunchly Catholic northern France against that of the south, where the Cathari were tolerated and even enjoyed the support of the nobles. Although the Crusade did not eliminate Catharism, it eventually enabled the French king to establish his authority over the south.

The pope and the French king who wanted to solidify and control the beliefs of the people.

As to the customs and fashion of the Cathars, these are all flexible and change over time.

The one correction I would do on what you put is to say that God came down from heaven to enter the Parfait. That is not quite true as it is us recognizing that the spark of God is always is us.


GnosticChristian Jesus said, "If those who attract you say, 'See, the Kingdom is inthe sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you.

If they sayto you, 'It is under the earth,' then the fish of the sea will precede you.

Rather, theKingdom of God is inside of you, and it is outside of you.

[Those who] become acquainted with [themselves] will find it; [and when you] become acquainted with yourselves, [you will understand that] it is you who are the sons of the living Father.

But if you will not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty and it is you who are that poverty."

You have postulated a supernatural God above when God is not supernatural and is here and now and it is to the seeker to find that God. Gnostic Christianity does not hold any supernatural beliefs.

God here is best defined as the best rules and laws to live life by.

Regards
DL
 

Red Sky at Morning

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I had a look to see if I could find a contemporary overview of Catharism and wondered if this was accurate?

From https://www.gotquestions.org/Catharism.html

Question: "What is Catharism?"

Answer: Catharism is the term used to describe a set of quasi-Christian beliefs held by a group of medieval ascetics known as the Cathars (or Cathari), which means “pure ones.” According to Catharism, everything physical was created by the evil god of the Old Testament, and everything spiritual was created by the good god of the New Testament. The Cathars believed that human beings are really angels trapped in corrupted matter, forced to reincarnate until finally released by a ritual of purification.

One of the tenets of Catharism, which began in the 12th century, was a rejection of marriage. Cathars forbade marriage for a couple of reasons. First, they believed that humans were simply angelic beings imprisoned in flesh—and angels are genderless. Also, the Cathari believed that procreation was an evil act, since it prolonged the suffering and evil of the physical world. Cathars were also vegetarian and pacifistic.

Catharism taught that salvation required a ritual known as a consolamentum. This was vaguely similar to baptism, with the addition of speaking in tongues and fasting. A Cathar typically observed the consolamentum as late in life as possible, since he believed any pleasure taken in the world after the ritual would corrupt his spirit and prevent him from ascending to heaven. Many Cathars undertook the consolamentum on their deathbeds, then voluntarily starved themselves to death in order to guarantee purity in the afterlife.

Theologically, Catharism was dualistic; biblically, Catharism is completely false, although the Cathars claimed to be Christians. Scripture says that the same God who created the heavens and the earth (Genesis 1:1) is the One who came in human form for our salvation (Acts 3:13). Unlike Catharism, the Bible says that each person is born and dies only once (Hebrews 9:27), has a human soul (Genesis 2:7), and is saved by grace through faith in Christ (Ephesians 2:8–9). No ritual can save us (Titus 3:5), nor are all worldly things inherently evil (Genesis 1:31).

In modern times, Catharism might be seen as a quirky or even progressive religious group. But in medieval Europe the Cathars were considered radical and profoundly dangerous to the stability of a fragile society. Those who denied the authority of the government to wage war and who refused to procreate were seen as anarchists threatening the culture. Catharism also rejected the Catholic sacraments and almost all other religious traditions. Unsurprisingly, Catharism was heavily persecuted by the Catholic Church; they were the particular targets of at least one minor Crusade and parts of the Inquisition. Catharism died out in the 14th century.
 
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I had a look to see if I could find a contemporary overview of Catharism and wondered if this was accurate?

From https://www.gotquestions.org/Catharism.html

Question: "What is Catharism?"

Answer: Catharism is the term used to describe a set of quasi-Christian beliefs held by a group of medieval ascetics known as the Cathars (or Cathari), which means “pure ones.” According to Catharism, everything physical was created by the evil god of the Old Testament, and everything spiritual was created by the good god of the New Testament. The Cathars believed that human beings are really angels trapped in corrupted matter, forced to reincarnate until finally released by a ritual of purification.

One of the tenets of Catharism, which began in the 12th century, was a rejection of marriage. Cathars forbade marriage for a couple of reasons. First, they believed that humans were simply angelic beings imprisoned in flesh—and angels are genderless. Also, the Cathari believed that procreation was an evil act, since it prolonged the suffering and evil of the physical world. Cathars were also vegetarian and pacifistic.

Catharism taught that salvation required a ritual known as a consolamentum. This was vaguely similar to baptism, with the addition of speaking in tongues and fasting. A Cathar typically observed the consolamentum as late in life as possible, since he believed any pleasure taken in the world after the ritual would corrupt his spirit and prevent him from ascending to heaven. Many Cathars undertook the consolamentum on their deathbeds, then voluntarily starved themselves to death in order to guarantee purity in the afterlife.

Theologically, Catharism was dualistic; biblically, Catharism is completely false, although the Cathars claimed to be Christians. Scripture says that the same God who created the heavens and the earth (Genesis 1:1) is the One who came in human form for our salvation (Acts 3:13). Unlike Catharism, the Bible says that each person is born and dies only once (Hebrews 9:27), has a human soul (Genesis 2:7), and is saved by grace through faith in Christ (Ephesians 2:8–9). No ritual can save us (Titus 3:5), nor are all worldly things inherently evil (Genesis 1:31).

In modern times, Catharism might be seen as a quirky or even progressive religious group. But in medieval Europe the Cathars were considered radical and profoundly dangerous to the stability of a fragile society. Those who denied the authority of the government to wage war and who refused to procreate were seen as anarchists threatening the culture. Catharism also rejected the Catholic sacraments and almost all other religious traditions. Unsurprisingly, Catharism was heavily persecuted by the Catholic Church; they were the particular targets of at least one minor Crusade and parts of the Inquisition. Catharism died out in the 14th century.
No. This is not an accurate depiction of Cathars.

How can you see it as making sense when you postulate a non-reproducing people then should be killed instead of just letting them die out?

Your description above reeks of supernatural beliefs and Gnostic Christianity has no supernatural content.

We do in our myths, but know they are myths that were just written to put against the Christian myths before Christians became idol worshipers and began to kill for their idol.

Here is how all should think of God and the second links shows why.

http://bigthink.com/videos/what-is-god-2-2


Did you really think you would get an honest appraisal of Gnostic Christianity from those who used their Inquisition to kill us?

Regards
DL
 
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Pretty much my belief also...
Corrupted matter??

Does this sound like what a Cathar or modern Gnostic Christian would think?

Gnostic Christian Jesus said, "If those who attract you say, 'See, the Kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you.

If they say to you, 'It is under the earth,' then the fish of the sea will precede you.

Rather, the Kingdom of God is inside of you, and it is outside of you.

[Those who ]become acquainted with [themselves] will find it; [and when you] become acquainted with yourselves, [you will understand that] it is you who are the sons of the living Father.

But if you will not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty and it is you who are that poverty."

The house of God, our bodies, are not evil matter.

Regards
DL
 

Helioform

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Corrupted matter??

Does this sound like what a Cathar or modern Gnostic Christian would think?

Gnostic Christian Jesus said, "If those who attract you say, 'See, the Kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you.

If they say to you, 'It is under the earth,' then the fish of the sea will precede you.

Rather, the Kingdom of God is inside of you, and it is outside of you.

[Those who ]become acquainted with [themselves] will find it; [and when you] become acquainted with yourselves, [you will understand that] it is you who are the sons of the living Father.

But if you will not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty and it is you who are that poverty."

The house of God, our bodies, are not evil matter.

Regards
DL
Corrupted might be a big word but I believe this creation is a descension from the real creation which doesn't have anything like darkness, black holes, colliding galaxies etc. A christian would say that it is a creation in a sinning state.
 

mecca

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Corrupted might be a big word but I believe this creation is a descension from the real creation which doesn't have anything like darkness, black holes, colliding galaxies etc.
Why are those things bad?
 
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Corrupted might be a big word but I believe this creation is a descension from the real creation which doesn't have anything like darkness, black holes, colliding galaxies etc. A christian would say that it is a creation in a sinning state.
I like to use the term evolving perfection for nature. Otherwise, a perfect God or nature becomes a stagnant pool of information and our souls and consciousness as a part of that perfection would be useless to the universe.

Evolving, the perfection of whatever God and nature was, to whatever God and nature will be, means we have to think this way, unless you see God as somehow losing his initial perfection. This is not allowed in a perfect God’s or natures repertoire.

When this was written, most thought it to just be a cynical view of life but I think it is quite true and irrefutable, based on the anthropic principle and pure logic.

What do you think?

Candide.
"It is demonstrable that things cannot be otherwisethan as they are; for as all things have been created for some end, they must necessarily be created for the best end.”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vmc72fCJivA

This is done by nature and not a God but would be arequirement of a God if he were real.

Regards
DL
 

Red Sky at Morning

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Indeed, but I do not know why our friend believes Christian lies about why they butchered the Cathars.

Regards
DL
I guess its a question of perspective and presupposition... One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.

Just for the record, the inquisition was decidedly un-Christian, and Pope "Innocent III" was nothing of the sort!!!
 
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I guess its a question of perspective and presupposition... One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.

Just for the record, the inquisition was decidedly un-Christian, and Pope "Innocent III" was nothing of the sort!!!
Christianity has never been what it could have been if it had been under proper leadership.

To do so it wound have to return to it's older Chrestian roots and it is not about to become a God seeking instead of God idol worshiping religion.

Christians are not ready to tell the truth about their religion. That is why it is shrinking.

Regards
DL
 

mecca

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Black holes suck up and destroy stars and colliding galaxies destroy as well. Some colliding galaxies merge but most of the time they anihilate each other.
But that's just how things are. Are they a sign of sin/corruption?
 
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