Should genesis be taken literally?

Glad 2 know

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No...And an example would be that plants were created before the Sun in the story! Not possible! Plants need photosynthesis to exist! Its obvious from just reading the thing that the author knew little about the world around him.
This is a good one. It made me think that even though there was light and darkness before the sun and moon were made, that existence of light might have made it possible for the plants to grow. And then God made the heavenly bodies.
 

Glad 2 know

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What does God wants us to think? What does Jesus wants us to think? In the book of Genesis most things are literal and the rest are figurative. That is where God wants us to use our reasoning to discern.
 

Damien50

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Do you take genesis literally ? I noticed most people are selective about what to take literally from it. And it's kind of understandable, there are some tough pills to swallow in it if we take everything literally. If we take all of it as allegory it kind of become confusing and raises even more questions. Usually Bible is quite clear about itself. There is dreams, visions ,interpretations, parables, prophecies. And there is history scrupulous with dates and chronology... However genesis is mysterious and and doesn't hint too much or even leaves some details out of story on purpose . So how you approach it and how you decide ? Some usually arguable topics i can think off the top of my head...I don't need specific answers about those, sure insights are welcome but i posted them just to help visualize and remember :)
Seven days
Eden
Trees and apples
Snake and his seed
Angels having sex with humans
Giants
Two or more of every kind on earth in boat
Tower of babel
Sodom and Gomorrah
Depends. Many think the seven days equal thousands/millions/billions of years. Garden and the tree could be literal considering the burning bush. Some believe Eve and the serpent fornicated but that's way out there. Giants literal. Believing the ark happened requires faith that God could actually do it rather than saying it is just impossible. Tower of Babel I struggle with not the believing but completely understanding the physical and spiritual aspects of it all. Sodom and Gomorrah literal but Lot's wife turning to salt I would imagine would be harder to believe.

I use the rest of the bible to confirm and explain genesis.
 

Helioform

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Im pretty sure it was a logistical nightmare, but guys had lifespan of thousand year, how much knowledge and experience you can gather compared to our mere 80 years... building that ark took about 80 years. Loading it took a week , it doesn't mention how much time took all other preparations...There are some interesting theories about that time. One of most debatable and hard to believe that it was age of high technology, meaning higher when we have now...If that was true, also having in mind that they had help and guidance from God...
Best movie about ark + all mathematical calculations...
I have heard about the high technology theory. If you like anime, you might be interested in watching Spriggan. In it the Ark is represented as an alien spaceship that can control the weather. Although I'm not sure how that would be possible if the Ark is made of simple wood, but the theory is interesting nonetheless.
 

Vytas

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Some believe Eve and the serpent fornicated but that's way out there.
I have zero problem believing it.. When you think about it, later on lesser angels slept with woman and had children, but satan himself couldn't do it ? More like minions following the way of the master... And there is that phrase by Eve "i got a man from the lord" did she just called Adam lord? Or she is stating the obvious that God is responsible for giving the life...Bible is not known for stating the obvious, even less so genesis...So what does she implies? I could recommend a video series if you interested
Tower of Babel I struggle with not the believing but completely understanding the physical and spiritual aspects of it all.
I always was very curious about that one...Basically we are told like 5% percent of the story and left to interpret the rest as we wish...short interesting research, nothing mysterious though, same old...Satan pride sin ....
 

elsbet

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It's an obvious allegory, it would not make sense if it was literal. We know it's about how God created the universe and how humans "fell" but nothing in it is literal, it's purely spiritual and metaphysical, you can take a lot of meanings out of it. You don't have to agree.
Mecca-- that covers (dismisses) chapters 1-3, out of FIFTY. I know we don't have to agree-- I'm fond of pointing that out myself-- but wouldn't you at least like for your opinion to be an educated one?

How would the inception of the world as we know it look, if it were to "make sense".. ? If it were void of the supernatural-- because it is a supernatural event, to be sure-- it would be a Lie. If it was purely spiritual and metaphysical (a nod to St Augustine, no doubt), it would still be a Lie because we are not purely spiritual and metaphysical.

I do not understand why it is difficult for so many people to consider that there is a war going on for the hearts and minds of men. It has been that way since time immemorial (Genesis). It continues right here, in this exchange. If you dismiss the material as so much spiritual fluff, you are doing a disservice to yourself. Js.
 

Paranoia Daily

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Plants also need rain now, yet there was no rain before flood. Fact that genesis lacks explanations doesn't make it untrue...
Prove it..Simple as that...There was no flood...According to the book the water reached the tip of the highest mountain top...Could not have..Mount Ararat was the highest peak at about 26,000 feet....According to your book the water rose 15 cubits which is only 23.6 feet.....Plants with rain will not survive without sunlight at some point, geeesh! The Book of Genesis makes good fiction but thats all it is. More to the point:

Genesis 1

The Beginning
1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

3 And God said, "Let there be light," and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good, and He separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light "day," and the darkness he called "night." And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.

So here a literal day occurred how? There is no Sun, no Moon, no stars at this point.

6 And God said, "Let there be an expanse between the waters to separate water from water." 7 So God made the expanse and separated the water under the expanse from the water above it. And it was so. 8 God called the expanse "sky." And there was evening, and there was morning—the second day.

Here literally two days have passed with no Sun or any other star in the sky.

9 And God said, "Let the water under the sky be gathered to one place, and let dry ground appear." And it was so. 10 God called the dry ground "land," and the gathered waters he called "seas." And God saw that it was good.

11 Then God said, "Let the land produce vegetation: seed-bearing plants and trees on the land that bear fruit with seed in it, according to their various kinds." And it was so. 12 The land produced vegetation: plants bearing seed according to their kinds and trees bearing fruit with seed in it according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good. 13 And there was evening, and there was morning—the third day.

Now three days have passed without the Sun or any other star in the sky.


14 And God said, "Let there be lights in the expanse of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark seasons and days and years, 15 and let them be lights in the expanse of the sky to give light on the earth." And it was so. 16 God made two great lights—the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars. 17 God set them in the expanse of the sky to give light on the earth, 18 to govern the day and the night, and to separate light from darkness. And God saw that it was good. 19 And there was evening, and there was morning—the fourth day.

Oh now the Sun decides its going to show up for the party! So how were any literal days marked before the Sun? Not one literal day could have existed before the existence of the Sun.

20 And God said, "Let the water teem with living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the expanse of the sky." 21 So God created the great creatures of the sea and every living and moving thing with which the water teems, according to their kinds, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. 22 God blessed them and said, "Be fruitful and increase in number and fill the water in the seas, and let the birds increase on the earth." 23 And there was evening, and there was morning—the fifth day.

24 And God said, "Let the land produce living creatures according to their kinds: livestock, creatures that move along the ground, and wild animals, each according to its kind." And it was so. 25 God made the wild animals according to their kinds, the livestock according to their kinds, and all the creatures that move along the ground according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good.

26 Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground."

27 So God created man in his own image,
in the image of God he created him;
male and female he created them.

28 God blessed them and said to them, "Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air and over every living creature that moves on the ground."

29 Then God said, "I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food. 30 And to all the beasts of the earth and all the birds of the air and all the creatures that move on the ground—everything that has the breath of life in it—I give every green plant for food." And it was so.

31 God saw all that he had made, and it was very good. And there was evening, and there was morning—the sixth day.

Genesis 2
1 Thus the heavens and the earth were completed in all their vast array.

2 By the seventh day God had finished the work he had been doing; so on the seventh day he rested from all his work. 3 And God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it he rested from all the work of creating that he had done.

Here are some major problems starting with the very first "evening and morning" of the first day of creation. Where is the evidence that supports the idea that the earth existed before the sun? The Bible creates an error simply by having days going by before days can be marked / calculated. (No Sun!)
 
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Do you take genesis literally ? I noticed most people are selective about what to take literally from it. And it's kind of understandable, there are some tough pills to swallow in it if we take everything literally. If we take all of it as allegory it kind of become confusing and raises even more questions. Usually Bible is quite clear about itself. There is dreams, visions ,interpretations, parables, prophecies. And there is history scrupulous with dates and chronology... However genesis is mysterious and and doesn't hint too much or even leaves some details out of story on purpose . So how you approach it and how you decide ? Some usually arguable topics i can think off the top of my head...I don't need specific answers about those, sure insights are welcome but i posted them just to help visualize and remember :)
Seven days
Eden
Trees and apples
Snake and his seed
Angels having sex with humans
Giants
Two or more of every kind on earth in boat
Tower of babel
Sodom and Gomorrah

There were no “angels having sex with humans”.

Angels are spirit beings.
They do not have bodies.
 

rainerann

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I was listening to this fascinating discussion about how Genesis is mathematical. He does a better job of explaining it but it seems like he is saying that Genesis is written in a way that can be remembered mathematically kind of like the way you could clap out syllables or how a poem uses a meter. It would be similar to this which would make Genesis more like a mnemonic than an allegory or something like that. It is meant to be remembered with a precision that can be verified with a numerical counterpart. Therefore, I accept it as true to form. It is obviously brief, but that would be reasonable considering this was taught through oral tradition.

 

Vytas

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There were no “angels having sex with humans”.

Angels are spirit beings.
They do not have bodies.
Im aware of that...:) So how do you interpret that verse?

Gen 6:2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

And how giants came to be?
Also do you believe apocrypha ?
 

TMT

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No...And an example would be that plants were created before the Sun in the story! Not possible! Plants need photosynthesis to exist! Its obvious from just reading the thing that the author knew little about the world around him.
You can't use reason, logic or science with the fundies, too much brain damage.

Anyway too take it literally is silly, and the fanaticism of the fundamentalism is one of the reasons why there are less believers than ever before, but it's also made the remaining ones very scary.

And this is an interesting book that views parts of genesis allegorically through the lens of evolutionary science
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dragons_of_Eden
 
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Im aware of that...:) So how do you interpret that verse?

Gen 6:2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

And how giants came to be?
Also do you believe apocrypha ?

"Sons of God" is just another way of saying men that are saved.
They are believers. In the passage in Genesis, it's explaining that these particular men(believers) married unbelieving women because they were beautiful. Bad choice on their part, though.

Giants existed then as well as today. My husband is 6'7", which I thought was tall, especially for a French/Irish guy, but we saw an Asian dude at the bookstore who dwarfed him at 7'2". P

Some people are unusually tall.


No, I don't believe the Apocrypha is the Word of God.
 

Vytas

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Prove it..Simple as that...There was no flood...According to the book the water reached the tip of the highest mountain top...Could not have..Mount Ararat was the highest peak at about 26,000 feet....According to your book the water rose 15 cubits which is only 23.6 feet.....Plants with rain will not survive without sunlight at some point, geeesh! The Book of Genesis makes good fiction but thats all it is. More to the point:

Genesis 1

The Beginning
1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

3 And God said, "Let there be light," and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good, and He separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light "day," and the darkness he called "night." And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.

So here a literal day occurred how? There is no Sun, no Moon, no stars at this point.

6 And God said, "Let there be an expanse between the waters to separate water from water." 7 So God made the expanse and separated the water under the expanse from the water above it. And it was so. 8 God called the expanse "sky." And there was evening, and there was morning—the second day.

Here literally two days have passed with no Sun or any other star in the sky.

9 And God said, "Let the water under the sky be gathered to one place, and let dry ground appear." And it was so. 10 God called the dry ground "land," and the gathered waters he called "seas." And God saw that it was good.

11 Then God said, "Let the land produce vegetation: seed-bearing plants and trees on the land that bear fruit with seed in it, according to their various kinds." And it was so. 12 The land produced vegetation: plants bearing seed according to their kinds and trees bearing fruit with seed in it according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good. 13 And there was evening, and there was morning—the third day.

Now three days have passed without the Sun or any other star in the sky.


14 And God said, "Let there be lights in the expanse of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark seasons and days and years, 15 and let them be lights in the expanse of the sky to give light on the earth." And it was so. 16 God made two great lights—the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars. 17 God set them in the expanse of the sky to give light on the earth, 18 to govern the day and the night, and to separate light from darkness. And God saw that it was good. 19 And there was evening, and there was morning—the fourth day.

Oh now the Sun decides its going to show up for the party! So how were any literal days marked before the Sun? Not one literal day could have existed before the existence of the Sun.

20 And God said, "Let the water teem with living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the expanse of the sky." 21 So God created the great creatures of the sea and every living and moving thing with which the water teems, according to their kinds, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. 22 God blessed them and said, "Be fruitful and increase in number and fill the water in the seas, and let the birds increase on the earth." 23 And there was evening, and there was morning—the fifth day.

24 And God said, "Let the land produce living creatures according to their kinds: livestock, creatures that move along the ground, and wild animals, each according to its kind." And it was so. 25 God made the wild animals according to their kinds, the livestock according to their kinds, and all the creatures that move along the ground according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good.

26 Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground."

27 So God created man in his own image,
in the image of God he created him;
male and female he created them.

28 God blessed them and said to them, "Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air and over every living creature that moves on the ground."

29 Then God said, "I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food. 30 And to all the beasts of the earth and all the birds of the air and all the creatures that move on the ground—everything that has the breath of life in it—I give every green plant for food." And it was so.

31 God saw all that he had made, and it was very good. And there was evening, and there was morning—the sixth day.

Genesis 2
1 Thus the heavens and the earth were completed in all their vast array.

2 By the seventh day God had finished the work he had been doing; so on the seventh day he rested from all his work. 3 And God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it he rested from all the work of creating that he had done.

Here are some major problems starting with the very first "evening and morning" of the first day of creation. Where is the evidence that supports the idea that the earth existed before the sun? The Bible creates an error simply by having days going by before days can be marked / calculated. (No Sun!)
For you anything supernatural is error, so sure, you have many problems with genesis and bible in general...Anyways thanks for lengthy answer...Btw if you would research flood, you would be surprised that decent amount of your so called scientist leans to the opinion that it actually happened...

First event :
Gen 7:19 And the waters prevailed exceedingly upon the earth; and all the high hills, that were under the whole heaven, were covered.
After that :
Gen 7:20 Fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail; and the mountains were covered...

Problem?
 
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Vytas

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"Sons of God" is just another way of saying men that are saved.
They are believers. In the passage in Genesis, it's explaining that these particular men(believers) married unbelieving women because they were beautiful. Bad choice on their part, though.

Giants existed then as well as today. My husband is 6'7", which I thought was tall, especially for a French/Irish guy, but we saw an Asian dude at the bookstore who dwarfed him at 7'2". P

Some people are unusually tall.


No, I don't believe the Apocrypha is the Word of God.
It's late and im too lazy now to look for facts, but height of biblical giants ( mentioned in bible) is far above anything we can observe now...not even close...
 

Paranoia Daily

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For you anything supernatural is error, so sure, you have many problems with genesis and bible in general...Anyways thanks for lengthy answer...Btw if you would research flood, you would be surprised that decent amount of you so called scientist leans to the opinion that it actually happened...

First event :
Gen 7:19 And the waters prevailed exceedingly upon the earth; and all the high hills, that were under the whole heaven, were covered.
After that :
Gen 7:20 Fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail; and the mountains were covered...

Problem?
I don't believe it happened....You can make myth do anything.....

Gen 7:20 Fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail; and the mountains were covered...
So whats this suppose to be? 15 Cubits is only 23 feet how does it cover a mountain range over 22,000 feet?

Fact is you have to be brain washed to believe this junk.....I got this junk drilled in my head as a child and never realized how goofy the whole thing is and sounds....To be honest it's laughable, matter I laugh every time I read this from the Fundies.
 
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Paranoia Daily

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You can't use reason, logic or science with the fundies, too much brain damage.

Anyway too take it literally is silly, and the fanaticism of the fundamentalism is one of the reasons why there are less believers than ever before, but it's also made the remaining ones very scary.

And this is an interesting book that views parts of genesis allegorically through the lens of evolutionary science
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dragons_of_Eden
Maybe they need Tin Foil Hats to prevent the brain washing.
 
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Vytas

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I don't believe it happened....You can make myth do anything.....



So whats this suppose to be? 15 Cubits is only 23 feet how does it cover a mountain range over 22,000 feet?

Fact is you have to be brain washed to believe this junk.....I got this junk drilled in my head as a child and never realized how goofy the whole thing is and sounds....To be honest it's laughable, matter I laugh every time I read this from the Fundies.
Try to read two verses not one , maybe by chance it will sink in...English is my third language so i have have no clue what word fundies mean, so doesn't hurt too much :p Laugh is a good though..keep laughing it's healthy...
 
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