Should Christians return to the Law of Moses?

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No, that is what the Bible says:

“Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.”......Galatians 2:15 KJB
Yes but you must also walk the Christian walk.

There are the talkers and there are the walkers.
 





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Remember Todd’s salvation is different than God’s.

The Salvation of TODD is a process of overcoming sins while he still breath, and everybody go to heaven, even false prophet and Jesus hater.
Another person falsely depicting what I believe. Why don’t you all stick to explaining why and what you believe for yourself and let others explain what they believe for themselves? But thank you for opening the door for me to share what I really believe.

I never once said everyone will go to heaven. I said all will be reconciled with God eventually. The false prophets and Jesus haters will have their time, in the ages to come, being purified by the fire of God. They will come out of the lake fire and receive healing from the saints who will have the privilege of administering healing to the nations with the leaves from the trees that line the river of life coming out of Zion on the new earth.

The difference between believers and unbelievers is that believers voluntarily accept the process of purification in this lifetime and will be rewarded accordingly in the ages to come. Unbelievers will have their time in the lake of fire with the beast and the false prophet. Their will be no rewards for them, but they will eventually be reconciled to God.

As Jesus clearly stated, many who think they are saved, will be surprised when Christ says depart from me, I never knew you. They too will have their time in the Lake of Fire, as they refused to walk through deliverance and sanctification in this lifetime, thinking they had a get out of hell free card.
 





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Gentiles who were never under law in the first place have nothing to return to...
I concur with this. Christian revelation begins with the Gospel. It has nothing to do with the Old Testament in terms of law or instruction. The Law of Christ replaces the Law of Moses. Even if Moses' Law was meant for proto-Christians, returning to it would be a step back and a complete dismissal of Christ's teachings.
 





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I concur with this. Christian revelation begins with the Gospel. It has nothing to do with the Old Testament in terms of law or instruction. The Law of Christ replaces the Law of Moses. Even if Moses' Law was meant for proto-Christians, returning to it would be a step back and a complete dismissal of Christ's teachings.
Some lawyer asked Jesus how to obtain eternal life.

What is written in the law ? Jesus asked

You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart soul strength and mind and your neighbour as yourself. (Luke 10:27)

That's right ! Do this and you will live ! Jesus answered.


Now how do we love God ?

John 14 15If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.


Matthew 19 17If you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.” 18Which ones ?

Jesus said, “‘You shall not murder,’ ‘You shall not commit adultery,’ ‘You shall not steal,’ ‘You shall not bear false witness,’ 19 ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ ”



There has always been two types of Christians... those who do lip service to the Lord and those who walk with Him.
 





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Remember Todd’s salvation is different than God’s.

The Salvation of TODD is a process of overcoming sins while he still breath, and everybody go to heaven, even false prophet and Jesus hater.
Indeed.

The sad part is, that by him continuing to preach a false gospel of works/faith plus works, not only is he denying himself salvation, but all the people who he has caused to believe in his lies, he is dragging them down with him.

And as he claims he was once a preacher, I shudder to think of the collective number of souls he has deceived over the years. They will split the gates of Hell wide open.

A person must be saved in order to win another to Christ. Without the presence of the Holy Spirit dwelling within them to draw the person they are delivering the (true) Gospel to, the person cannot receive the truth. It is like sowing seed on concrete.

Even though it is us who are saved that deliver the Gospel to the lost, in hopes of getting them saved, we are merely the messengers; it is still the power of the Holy Spirit that works on the unsaved person’s heart, soul & spirit that prepares them to hear and believe the truth of the true Gospel of Jesus Christ.

Since Todd clearly does not believe the true Gospel, he cannot deliver it to another, and his attempts to evangelize to the lost, and therefore, he can bear no good fruit.

It’s like the blind leading the blind, they both fall into a ditch.
 





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Repent and be baptised in the Name of Jesus Christ and receive the gift of the Holy spirit who will teach you truths and convict you of sins.
I have ALREADY been spiritually baptized by the Holy Spirit who dwells within me, which occurred the moment I believed the Gospel of Jesus Christ, I asked God to give me the gift of salvation offered through faith alone and He gave it to me immediately. That was 15 years ago, and I have had it ever since.

The Holy Spirit DOES convict me of my sins, and God certainly chastens me for them. I may not enjoy the chastening when it happens, but I always look back in hindsight & I know I deserved it and it was just, and He did it because He is wholly righteous; out of love & for my own benefit.

This is how I know He is my true spiritual Father, and I glorify Him for caring enough to set me straight.
 





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I have ALREADY been spiritually baptized by the Holy Spirit who dwells within me, which occurred the moment I believed the Gospel of Jesus Christ, I asked God to give me the gift of salvation offered through faith alone and He gave it to me immediately. That was 15 years ago, and I have had it ever since.

The Holy Spirit DOES convict me of my sins, and God certainly chastens me for them. I may not enjoy the chastening when it happens, but I always look back in hindsight & I know I deserved it and it was just, and He did it because He is wholly righteous; out of love & for my own benefit.

This is how I know He is my true spiritual Father, and I glorify Him for caring enough to set me straight.
Claire, do you think the Holy Spirit would still reside in you if you continually rejected and dismissed the convicting of the Holy Spirit?

If your answer is yes, I'm not really sure, other than semantics, what we disagree about. The main thing we might disagree about is that I believe the guidance and instruction that God gave the israelites was good and perfect and that what is applicable to us as Gentiles/sojourners is still valid today. You appear to believe that the statements about God's law in the OT being a blessing and not a curse was a lie and that observing the law is somehow harmful to our salvation. Please correct me if I am wrong, as I do not wish to misrepresent anyone's beliefs.
 





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I never once said everyone will go to heaven. I said all will be reconciled with God eventually. The false prophets and Jesus haters will have their time, in the ages to come, being purified by the fire of God. They will come out of the lake fire and receive healing from the saints who will have the privilege of administering healing to the nations with the leaves from the trees that line the river of life coming out of Zion on the new earth.
so eventually the false prophet and Jesus haters will enter heaven?

The difference between believers and unbelievers is that believers voluntarily accept the process of purification in this lifetime and will be rewarded accordingly in the ages to come. Unbelievers will have their time in the lake of fire with the beast and the false prophet. Their will be no rewards for them, but they will eventually be reconciled to God.
false prophet and Jesus haters will eventually go to heaven without rewards?

As Jesus clearly stated, many who think they are saved, will be surprised when Christ says depart from me, I never knew you. They too will have their time in the Lake of Fire, as they refused to walk through deliverance and sanctification in this lifetime, thinking they had a get out of hell free card.
no Todd, clearly the Holy Ghost is NOT your teacher, otherwise you would've know who Jesus's referring to when he say DEPART FROM ME.
let me give you a warning right now, Jesus is referring to people like you.
First, you denied the divinity of Jesus Christ, YOUR CREATOR. Second, you denied the Trinity Godhead which had been revealed many many time in the Bible, you are clearly being led by a DIFFERENT SPIRIT and it's not the TRUE GOD.
You're too prideful and leaning on your own understanding, I do believe you are born-again but not with the Holy Ghost. Whatever is living inside you, it's ain't God. We're all here trying to help you see the light but you continue to close your eyes and ears. Eventually, you will lose your chance at true salvation.
JESUS NEVER KNEW YOU MAN, you better repent and get to know HIM now. I'm marking you on my list of FALSE PROPHET to be avoided until I see true repentance.
 





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TokiEl said:
Repent and be baptised in the Name of Jesus Christ and receive the gift of the Holy spirit who will teach you truths and convict you of sins.
I have ALREADY been spiritually baptized by the Holy Spirit who dwells within me, which occurred the moment I believed the Gospel of Jesus Christ, I asked God to give me the gift of salvation offered through faith alone and He gave it to me immediately. That was 15 years ago, and I have had it ever since.

The Holy Spirit DOES convict me of my sins, and God certainly chastens me for them. I may not enjoy the chastening when it happens, but I always look back in hindsight & I know I deserved it and it was just, and He did it because He is wholly righteous; out of love & for my own benefit.

This is how I know He is my true spiritual Father, and I glorify Him for caring enough to set me straight.
That was not something i typed to you personally... just something i felt like typing then and there.


Faith in Jesus Christ is crucial... but so is loving Him.

And how does one love the Lord ? By keeping His commandments !
 





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The sad part is, that by him continuing to preach a false gospel of works/faith plus works, not only is he denying himself salvation, but all the people who he has caused to believe in his lies, he is dragging them down with him.
James 2 26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.


This is so basic... and still so many christians stumble... because for some reason they think that faith and works are incompatible... when in fact both are needed to be called a Christian by the Lord.
 





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First, you denied the divinity of Jesus Christ, YOUR CREATOR.
When we have such crystal clear Scripture like this... and still not seeing it when shown... is really remarkable.

John 8 24That is why I told you that you would die in your sins. For unless you believe that I am He, you will die in your sins.”


Also universal reconciliation gives a false sense of security... which will lull listeners into lukewarmness... as it is happy ending for all.
 





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so eventually the false prophet and Jesus haters will enter heaven?


false prophet and Jesus haters will eventually go to heaven without rewards?
Your reading comprehension is just as bad as Claire's. I said when they come out of the Lake of Fire they will be reconciled to God and be healed by saints coming out of Zion with the leaves of the tree of life. Zion you know that city that city that comes down from heaven to the new earth?
no Todd, clearly the Holy Ghost is NOT your teacher, otherwise you would've know who Jesus's referring to when he say DEPART FROM ME.
let me give you a warning right now, Jesus is referring to people like you.
First, you denied the divinity of Jesus Christ, YOUR CREATOR.
No I do not deny that Jesus Christ came directly from his Father. But that is not the same as saying he is equal to God.
Second, you denied the Trinity Godhead which had been revealed many many time in the Bible, you are clearly being led by a DIFFERENT SPIRIT and it's not the TRUE GOD.
No it's not clear. Even biblical scholars who defend the trinity admit, it is not taught directly in scripture.
You're too prideful and leaning on your own understanding, I do believe you are born-again but not with the Holy Ghost. Whatever is living inside you, it's ain't God. We're all here trying to help you see the light but you continue to close your eyes and ears. Eventually, you will lose your chance at true salvation.
JESUS NEVER KNEW YOU MAN, you better repent and get to know HIM now. I'm marking you on my list of FALSE PROPHET to be avoided until I see true repentance.
Okay. I'm one of the few "Christians" on this site that isn't going around making accusations against other christians about their personal salvation, but I am the one that is prideful? Got it. You know who the accuser is don't you?
 





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Your reading comprehension is just as bad as Claire's. I said when they come out of the Lake of Fire they will be reconciled to God and be healed by saints coming out of Zion with the leaves of the tree of life. Zion you know that city that city that comes down from heaven to the new earth?
Nobody comes out of the Lake of Fire alive.

It is the second and final death.
 





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Jesus said, “‘You shall not murder,’ ‘You shall not commit adultery,’ ‘You shall not steal,’ ‘You shall not bear false witness,’ 19 ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ ”



There has always been two types of Christians... those who do lip service to the Lord and those who walk with Him.
Then Jesus said.. "go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."

So Tokiel.... You a walker or a talker...
 





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A former Seventh Day Adventist speaks out on his changed understanding of the Law, Grace and his perspective on the significance of the Sabbath. Amazing insights!

 





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Then Jesus said.. "go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."
Jesus confirmed that if you love God and your neighbour as yourself... you will obtain eternal life.


Now how does one love God ? Let God answer that !

John 14 15If ye love me, keep my commandments.


You can choose to listen to Joe Jane Martin Beth Richard etc etc... but Jesus Christ has made it crystal clear that loving Him is the same as keeping His commandments.
 





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I also wonder if US stenographer Isaac Roberdeau was "faking history" when he mapped out a Native American mound with Hebrew Symbols in Ohio?
You mean when people mistakenly have taken his drawings (probably not his) and decided to impose a Menorah on it? What he mapped out and what ignorant people dying to make connections that dont really exist, are 2 different animals. Here is an article that goes over this mound and shows that of course it has zero to do with some Black Hebrews in America, its also interesting to note that this idea was popularized in the 80's thru a magazine ran by a Racist White Neo Nazi who is a convicted p***phile and owned by a Mormon, so there is that too...

http://www.jasoncolavito.com/blog/did-ancient-jews-build-a-menorah-mound-in-ohio

Maybe Antonio de Montezinos was lying when he said he met people in Ecuador reciting the Shema?
Very good chance he was, do you understand why it would be important to him to say such a thing? Do you know what that man believed? He wrote a book about it, believing that the Lost Tribes needed to be found so the Messiah could come. If I was a person desperate to have the Messiah come, it would be wonderful to find the Lost Tribes if that is what they believe was needed to fulfill such an event.

And even if he didnt, and somehow these people were reciting Shema, what does this have to do with Africans? You are literally conflating 2 things, either Black Africans like you are Hebrews or people in South America are Hebrew. It sounds to me like you think literally anyone OTHER than Europeans and Asians are actually Hebrews lol like IDK Middle Eastern people, they of course arent Hebrews, no, Blacks and people in the Americas they are the real Hebrews...

I wonder if Colombus was confused when he said he was looking to capture the holy land/India at a time where the land we know as India was called Hindustan? I wonder if his people were confused calling people of this land they were looking for Indios which means people of God in their language?
Lol seriously dude, this is what I am talking about, straight up quack information. Let me show you 2 things real quick. There is a comedian named George Carlton, let me quote you something straight out of his book:

"First of all, it's important to know that the word Indian does not derive from Columbus mistakenly believing he had reached India. India was not even called by that name in 1492, it was known as Hindustan."

"More likely, the word Indian comes from Columbus's description of the people he found here.
He was an Italian, and did not speak or write very good Spanish, so in his written accounts he called the Indians, 'Una gente in Dios.' A People in God.
In God. In Dios, Indians.
It's a perfectly noble and respectable word."

THIS is where you got this idea from bro, whether or not you want to accept it, your ignorant statement about Indians being People of God in Columbus language comes from a freaking comedian, an american atheist comedian. So lets actually look at his, I mean your claim a bit closer shall we?

Anne wrote:

> Historically, Columbus was not looking for India and mistakenly called
> Native people Indians. India did not exist then. It was called
> Hindustan. What old Chris said was "in dios" (sp?) which meant in god
> or something similar.

I really think this tale is a classic 'like begets like inference.' For
example, the Spanish form would have been "En Dios," not "In dios."
(there is on 'in' in Spanish). Since "Dios" means 'God" in Spanish, it
is not a plural form, so there would be no singular form, i.e. 'Dio' as
in 'Indio'. "En Dios" ( "of God" or "about God") is pronounced 'in
deeoz' while "indio" is pronounced 'een dee o.' If the Spaniards wanted
to descripe the Arawaks as 'godly' they would have used "piadoso," if
divine, the would have used 'divino,' or if the wanted to describe them
as blessed they would have used "bendito" or "feliz." But there's really
no idiomas in Spanish where 'en Dios' is used, at least that I know of.
It doesn't really mean anything. It merely sounds like "Idios" if you
mispronounce it.

Additionally, regardless of how the people who lived in the Indian
Subcontenent in 1492 described themselves (there were actually many
nations each with different names, beside "Hindustan") the fact remains
that Europeans since at least the time of Alexander called that place
"India." Greek and Roman texts always refer to it as "India" and it
comes from an early geographers (I can't recall if it was Herodotus or
another) defined this land as 'from the Indus river to China (Cathy, or
whatever they called China then). See Herodotus, Pliny, Ptolemy etc.

But Columbus' own writing make all this clear. Just take the very first
letter to Ferdinand and Isabella, published in Europe in Latin in 1494:
http://www.usm.maine.edu/~maps/columbus/toc.html

"Q voniam suscepte prouinciæ rem perfectâ
me consecutû fuisse: gratum tibi fore scio.
has constitui exarare: quæ te vniuscuiusque
rei in hoc nostro itinere geste inuêteque admoneât.
Tricesimotercio die postquam Gadibus discessi: in +mare Indicû +
perueni: vbi plurimas Iu[n]sulas innumeris
habitatas hominibus reperi: quarû omnium pro foe-
licissimo Rege nostro: præconio celebrato, et vexillis
extensis: côtradicente nemine possessionê accepi.
primeque earum: diui Saluatoris nomê imposui.
cuius fretus auxilio: tam ad hanc quam ad ceteras alias
peruenimus. Eam vero +Indi+ Guanahanyn vocant.
Aliarum etiam vnâquanque nouo nomine nûcupaui.
Quippe aliam Insulam Sancte Marie Conceptionis.
aliam Fernandinam. aliam Hysabellam. aliâ "

(I've added the '+' to mark the reverence to "Indian")

(translation)
"Because my undertakings have attained success, I know that it will be
pleasing to you: these I have determined to relate, so that you may be
made
acquainted with everything done and discovered in this our voyage. On the

thirty-third day after I departed from Cadiz, I came to the +Indian sea+,
where +(mare Indicu)+
I found many islands inhabited by men without number, of all which I took

possession for our most fortunate king, with proclaiming heralds and
flying
standards, no one objecting. To the first of these I gave the name of the

blessed Saviour, on whose aid relying I had reached this as well as the
other islands. But the +Indians+ call it Guanahany. I also called each
one of +(Indi)+
the others by a new name. For I ordered one island to be called Santa
Maria
of the Conception, another Fernandina, another Isabella, another Juana,
and so on with the rest."

The next paragraph makes it clear that C thought he was in Asia.

"As soon as we had arrived at that island which I have just now said was
called Juana, I proceeded along its coast towards the west for some
distance; I found it so large and without perceptible end, that I
believed it to
be not an island, but the continental country of Cathay; seeing, however,
no
towns or cities situated on the sea-coast, but only some villages and
rude
farms, with whose inhabitants I was unable to converse, because as soon
as they saw us they took flight."

Cathay, as you know, is what Europeans called China in those days. So it
doesn't make much sense to argue that Colon didn't think he was in Asia,
if he mistook Cuba for China, does it?

The 16th century Diccionario de Autoridades (1726 -1739) gives this
definition for "Indio"

"INDIO, DIA.f.m.yf. El natural de la India, originario de aquellos
Frinos, hijo de padres..."

and Indios:
"Indios. Lat. Indus." (referring to a Latin cognate of India).

Anyway, it seems to me the 'In Dios' idea has absolutely no merit at
all. Why would Spaniards say this about the Arawaks (or was it Caribes?)
in the first place. Columbus took a bunch of them home with him and sold
them in the slave market in Seville.

But I'm all ears if the "In Dios" supporters wish to make an argument and
back it up with some sort of facts.
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!original/alt.native/mW2rgKQ4w6s/-Z1y1ydBT_oJ

There is what Columbus actually wrote, and it is extremely clear that in no was he trying to say that these were Gods People, and he was calling them Indians because that entire region had been called India for CENTURIES.

You keep proving my point, that ignorant people make ignorant claims that in no way are backed up be REAL Evidence or REAL Historians or anything legit, nothing you have stated proves that Blacks are Hebrews and everything you have stated has shown you are grasping at straws. It takes literally 5 min of a Google search to disprove your nonsense but yet here you are still believing that you are Racially a Hebrew, but the facts are, you are not...

You talk about Africans but why was there a law passed that thru blacks, moors, and Indians into one group?
Because none of them were white? Dont know what this has to do with Africans being Hebrews...

So these moors argued that they shouldnt be subject to the same laws as negroes.
Because of this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moroccan–American_Treaty_of_Friendship

I bring this up to explain those "black" guys with the funny looking (but exquisite) clothes always in the back of George Washington photos... The last picture being a picture of the "wild men and the moors" (not my words) warring against each other. That is what was going on in Europe before they got to America...
Again no clue what this has to do with anything I have said, and it proves nothing of Blacks being Hebrews, they are still not Hebrews...

I bring that up to say that in my belief system its not as simple as black and white. Saying everyone is black dilutes real history that says there were black people in a variety of places.
I dont know who says that everyone is black, or again what this has to do with anything Ive said, or shows anything about Blacks being Hebrews...

Everyone turned on Israel when God turned His face from them.
Yes, and when Israel rejected their Messiah, God destroyed them from off the face of the planet as a Nation. What is your point?

The Book of Maccabees and that Judith verse I posted showed that even Gentiles knew that when Israel was in obedience they couldnt take them over, and thats why you dont want to address it
Again for the 3rd time I am not addressing it because it is not Scripture and has zero to do with the conversation we have been having. Israel rejected their Messiah and it was THEN that they were totally destroyed as a Nation. If they were obedient to their God they would have accepted Jesus as their Messiah and then they wouldnt have been destroyed, instead they rejected and crucified Him and they were destroyed.

If your ideology was even slightly correct, then the Jews should have kept their Nation for a much longer time seeing as in your view they killed the most prolific False Messiah that has ever existed. Instead the literal opposite thing happened, they killed Jesus and less than a generation later the Nation was destroyed...

None of this represents reality with those people who over there in "Israel" (barren land with no resources)getting tribute and protection from nations now as they set up freemason symbols on their land and allow gay parades. They're not obeying the laws in the Torah but are getting blessed as if they are.
They are being blessed? I mean if you think that being attacked and fear of being blown up all the time is blessed then I guess they are blessed. However I dont believe those people or that Nation has anything to do with God, they are Anti-Christs so you would be preaching to the choir about the people who run that Nation...

Either they're fake or the scriptures are fake.. So if you want to quote me about my belief system even when the thread doesnt call for it, then start HERE and not with the BHIs. Stop trying to force me into a box that I dont belong to....
You still believe that Racists garbage no matter how you want to sugar coat it and the facts are, Black people are not Hebrews period. Now that we have talked about your incorrect beliefs about History and Race we can get back to things that matter...
 





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This short excerpt is from a different source that is only a few pages in length -

"Tara. Lothair Croffin was changed into Tara at the time of the wedding. Tara means law. Thus began the seed of David to take root, and from there it spread over all Ireland, then to Scotland, thence to England, and Jacob's Stone in Westminster Abbey marks the journey of David's throne, and has always kept with the seed, and they have been always crowned on it. Ezekiel's riddle is at once solved. The tender twigs were Zedekiah's daughters. One of these twigs was planted by the great waters in a land of traffic... ...Thus do we see how God has kept His word to David, and with this view, English and American history are at once understandable."

Jeremiah in Ireland, Excerpt from The Lost Ten Tribes by Joseph Wild, D. D.
http://jacksonsnyder.com/yah/page/jeremiah-in-ireland.htm

Jeremiah The Prophet is the Patriarch of Ireland The Real Saint Patrick
 





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This short excerpt is from a different source that is only a few pages in length -

"Tara. Lothair Croffin was changed into Tara at the time of the wedding. Tara means law. Thus began the seed of David to take root, and from there it spread over all Ireland, then to Scotland, thence to England, and Jacob's Stone in Westminster Abbey marks the journey of David's throne, and has always kept with the seed, and they have been always crowned on it. Ezekiel's riddle is at once solved. The tender twigs were Zedekiah's daughters. One of these twigs was planted by the great waters in a land of traffic... ...Thus do we see how God has kept His word to David, and with this view, English and American history are at once understandable."

Jeremiah in Ireland, Excerpt from The Lost Ten Tribes by Joseph Wild, D. D.
http://jacksonsnyder.com/yah/page/jeremiah-in-ireland.htm

Jeremiah The Prophet is the Patriarch of Ireland The Real Saint Patrick
I don't believe the British monarchy is descended from David, whom God called A man after my own heart. :/

I think Tara means earth. I'll verify.
 





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I don't believe the British monarchy is descended from David, whom God called A man after my own heart. :/

I think Tara means earth. I'll verify.
@bible_student

In Irish tradition, Tara was the name of a hill where the ancient Irish kings were said to have reigned. In Irish mythology it is also a mystical place for the gods and an entrance to the “otherworld.”

The name Tara is an Irish baby name. In Irish the meaning of the name Tarais: Where the kings met. Also Tara's Halls, where ancient Bards sang deeds of Irish heroes. The ruins of the Halls are on the hill of Tara, meaning crag or tower.

Means "star" in Sanskrit. Tara is the name of a Hindu astral goddess, the wife of Brhaspati. She was abducted by Soma, a god of the moon, leading to a great war that was only ended when Brahma intervened and released her. This is also the name of a Buddhist deity (a female Buddha).