Should Christians return to the Law of Moses?

TokiEl

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The Holy spirit will impart the commandments of God to a person who don't know anything about the commandments of God. The Holy spirit will make each and every one under His guardianship walk in the law of the Lord.


Nobody keeps the commandments of God and the law of the Lord as those with the Holy spirit within. Nobody !


What commandments am i talking about ? Do not steal cheat kill lie and respect your parents !

What law of the Lord am i talking about ? Love God aka obey the commandments and love your neighbour as yourself !


No born again person aka filled with the Holy spirit will argue with this.
 
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elsbet

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It was just an example used to strengthen my point. Someone out there, who believes in UR might, in trying to understand the question of evil and Satan's continued existence, conclude that in not blotting him out of existence its proof of UR. That in the end, Satan will be in the throng of the Redeemed, as Lucifer i suppose (since he'll no longer be an Adversary).
Gotcha. Thanks
 
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No apology necessary. I appreciate your conviction. I have two questions for you, if you would humor me--

Do you believe Christ is God?
Soo... you think its about (keeping) the Mosaic law?
@elsbet In connection with your question above and in regarding the Law of Moses, have you ever thought about and considered Who the Bible says it actually was that appeared unto Moses at the burning bush and Who later gave The Law to Moses, in the Old Covenant, please?

It is the Lord (Christ - the Son of God) Who is identified as being The Lawgiver. A few of the many passages throughout the Bible that show us that Christ is The Lawgiver: Numbers 21:4-6, John 5:22, 23, 1 Corinthians 10:4-9, Hebrews 3:1-6, 3:14-17, 11:24-26, 13:8)
 
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Daciple

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. God then says that His servant David (why didnt He just say your gods name?) would be king over them and they would follow HIS LAWS and be careful to keep His DECREES.
How can David be King if David is dead? How can any of what God said in the Old Testament be True if there is literally no one on the Throne right now?

2 Sam 7:12 And when thy days be fulfilled, and thou shalt sleep with thy fathers, I will set up thy seed after thee, which shall proceed out of thy bowels, and I will establish his kingdom.
13 He shall build an house for my name, and I will stablish the throne of his kingdom for ever.

Ps 89:3 I have made a covenant with my chosen, I have sworn unto David my servant,
4 Thy seed will I establish for ever, and build up thy throne to all generations. Selah.

It has been at least 2000 yrs since anyone sat on the Throne of David, so how is Gods Promise to David still kept True?

You quoted Isaiah, what does Isaiah say about this?

Is 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the Lord of hosts will perform this
.

Who is this person? Cant be David, cant be Solomon, so in whom is this going to be fulfilled, someone that the Government of God rests upon His Shoulders, who is called the Mighty God, and rules on the throne of David and carries out His Kingdom forever?

Someone had to have fulfilled this or God is lying cuz no one has sat on that Throne for Centuries.

Heres what I believe about things that go against that:

Isaiah 8
20 To the law and to the testimony! If they do not speak according to this word, it is because there[o] is no light in them.

No light.
And you ignore the entire Chapter before this, whom is this speaking about?

Is 8:8 And he shall pass through Judah; he shall overflow and go over, he shall reach even to the neck; and the stretching out of his wings shall fill the breadth of thy land, O Immanuel.
9 Associate yourselves, O ye people, and ye shall be broken in pieces; and give ear, all ye of far countries: gird yourselves, and ye shall be broken in pieces; gird yourselves, and ye shall be broken in pieces.
10 Take counsel together, and it shall come to nought; speak the word, and it shall not stand: for God is with us.


14 And he shall be for a sanctuary; but for a stone of stumbling and for a rock of offence to both the houses of Israel, for a gin and for a snare to the inhabitants of Jerusalem.
15 And many among them shall stumble, and fall, and be broken, and be snared, and be taken.

Later he writes about this Stone:

Is 28:16 Therefore thus saith the Lord God, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste.

So in this Chapter it speaks of someone being called Immanuel, which is interpreted as God is with us, and that He will be a stone of stumbling and a rock of offence to the houses of Israel and a snare to Jerusalem, and later says it will be the cornerstone and foundation, David spoke about this Immanuel, as well:

Ps 118:22 The stone which the builders refused is become the head stone of the corner.
23 This is the Lord's doing; it is marvellous in our eyes
.

I mean you completely ignored my request, typical, but all of these are Messianic Prophecies, the Messiah is the one who sits on the Throne of David, who is the Seed, upon which the Government of God would rest on His shoulders, who is called Mighty God, who would be rejected by Israel, and would become a stone of stumbling and rock of offence to them. Of course Jesus fulfills all of these Scriptures, because He is the Messiah.

Jesus sits on the Throne of David, and is the Seed of David:

Luke 1:31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name Jesus.
32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:

Acts 2:29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool.

36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

Jesus reign is Eternal and has no End:

Luke 1:33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

His name is Immanuel, which means God is with us:

Matt 1:22 Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying,
23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

He is the Stone that the Builder Refused, which has become the head of the corner and an offense to Israel:

Matt 21:42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
44 And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.
45 And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables, they perceived that he spake of them.

46 But when they sought to lay hands on him, they feared the multitude, because they took him for a prophet.

Acts 4:10 Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.
11 This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.
12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

I am sure you will skip over all of this like you did before to try and argue about your incorrect History and Blacks being Jews, but the fact is Jesus fulfilled everything Isaiah was writing about in the Chapter you quoted, and Jesus is who David was writing about as well...

And see that makes plenty of sense. You know who's also of Germanic descent? The so called Ashkenazi Jews. Heres what I believe of them:

Genesis 10
2 The sons[a] of Japheth: Gomer, Magog, Madai, Javan, Tubal, Meshek and Tiras. 3 The sons of Gomer:
Ashkenaz, Riphath and Togarmah.

In no way shape or form, can they be considered Jews. They're pretenders. But they're probably close family to you genealogically. So thats probably why you dont want to discuss the identity theft that the bible speaks of.
Look man, you took what I said cut it off and started down a completely different path, what I said was the idea that you a Black man is an Israelitie is as stupid as me a White man saying I am the real descendant of an African Country like Zimbabwe. It is a stupid as saying real Africans are White and Black people hijacked my Culture and Ancestors Identity. Saying that is retarded period, same as you saying you are a Hebrew by Ethnicity.

Also this ignorant idea that I dont want to talk about it because I "could be close genealogically" is showing that you truly can not grasp anything I write. I dont know how hard it is for you to grasp, but I do NOT care in the least about ANYONES Racial make up. It doesnt matter to me, AT ALL. I have shown you the Truth, that Racial Identity doesnt matter in the least, all that matters is, are you in Christ or not. If you are in Christ then you are part of Israel, you are the Seed of Abraham, you have all the Promises given to him ect ect ect. If you are NOT in Christ, like you at the moment, then regardless of your Racial Make Up, it being Black, White, Orange, Yellow or Purple, whether you are legit a descendant of Abraham, or if you are a descendant of Muhammad, a descendant of Buddha, or a descendant of Nero or King James or whoever else, you do NOT get any of the things Promised to Abraham, PERIOD.

Finally you are speaking to someone who understands 100% the idea of the False Jews and the Ashkenzi Jews ect. Pick up a Bible, Jesus tells you all about it:

Rev 3:9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.

I dont really believe that the people who claim they are Jews in Israel today are actual Jews, but MORE IMPORTANTLY is the fact that they are NOT Spiritually Jews, and that is ALL that matters. They are Anti-Christs, they hate Jesus, their entire Religion is to subvert their and your Savior. If anything you OUGHT to be in agreement with them because they hate Jesus just like you do, and they hate His Followers just like you do, and they subverted Christianity (via the RCC) to murder people in Christs name to cause His name to be blasphemed by people JUST LIKE YOU. But I dont expect you to accept or agree with this because its much more fitting for you to think you are Racially Justified by God and your People were the ones who were scattered among the Nations, instead of accepting the Truth that Jews, the REAL Jews aka the Pharisees, have subverted Christianity, created a Religious Institution in His name to specifically blaspheme Him and lead people away from Him and towards the Religion they actually practiced which is boiled down Satanism...

Im going to reject him because people's first introduction was when people were invading, stealing, murdering, enslaving, raping, etc... them.
First and foremost that is NOT the peoples first introduction to Him, it is like you dont even understand History and that the Roman Government was literally murdering Christians for hundreds of years before the RCC existed. And THEN they continued to hunt down MAINLY Christians to fore them into following their False Religion that is actually just a continuation of the Pharisees Religion, the people who think you are related too...

You say this:

There were kingdoms taken down behind that belief system. That’s how your god introduced himself to people so why wouldnt I reject him?
So lets see if you can answer this question, I already posed it to you but you completely ignored it, probably because it shows how ignorant and hypocritical your position is concerning bringing down kingdoms, and the "introduction" of God to others.

Here is the introduction of God to Egypt:

Ex 12:29 And it came to pass, that at midnight the Lord smote all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn of Pharaoh that sat on his throne unto the firstborn of the captive that was in the dungeon; and all the firstborn of cattle.
30 And Pharaoh rose up in the night, he, and all his servants, and all the Egyptians; and there was a great cry in Egypt; for there was not a house where there was not one dead
.

What happened next to Egypt?

Ex 14:28 And the waters returned, and covered the chariots, and the horsemen, and all the host of Pharaoh that came into the sea after them; there remained not so much as one of them.

So the introduction of God to Egypt is that literally all the Firstborn and basically all the men of fighting age died. Should all Egyptians reject God because this happened to them?

What happened when God was introduced to Canaan? And even before actually crossing into Canaan, what happened to the Nations surrounding Canaan?

Josh 2:10 For we have heard how the Lord dried up the water of the Red sea for you, when ye came out of Egypt; and what ye did unto the two kings of the Amorites, that were on the other side Jordan, Sihon and Og, whom ye utterly destroyed.

And then when God was introduced to the 1st nation in Canaan?

Josh 6:21 And they utterly destroyed all that was in the city, both man and woman, young and old, and ox, and sheep, and ass, with the edge of the sword.

And of course I can do this with every single Kingdom of Canaan, all of them were attacked and killed, so the question remains, should none of the descendants of these Nations accept God because the first time they were introduced to them it was during violence and warfare?

I mean we both know you wont answer the question because the answer is no that is a stupid reason, and the same goes for your reasoning as to why you would reject Christ. In fact your reasoning is even worse because 1st and foremost, this was NOT a Command of Christ, its actually completely against what Christ stated to do, and secondly these people were NOT Christians, they were Catholics which is a False Religion modeled on the Religion the Elite of your supposed ancestors practiced which is a form of the Babylonian Ancient Mystery.

So we take your logic and apply it to literally everyone in the Middle East, you would have to say that all of them are justified in and ought to reject God because they were introduced to Him by way of violence. Of course that isnt correct, regardless of the past, these people need to Repent and Believe in God, period...

Then I personally read the OT and conclude that I cannot accept the NT at whole without ignoring some parts of it or the OT to make it all fit..
Nope, you are wrong...

And then the NT is written in Greek while the OT is written in Hebrew?
What exactly does that matter? Seriously? This can not be a legitimate reason of yours, that is absurd.

You do realize that the entire Old Testament was translated into Greek and was probably the most used version of the Bible during the time of Christ, by the actual Jews correct?

Secondly you do realize that the World was speaking Greek at that time correct? Do you get this? It would be as tho God Himself were to come to us now via a Prophet or however and say that Prophet is to be rejected because he spoke and wrote in English. That is about the dumbest thing I have ever heard.

And finally, God created all the Languages, there is nothing special about Hebrew as opposed to literally any other Language on the face of the planet. To say other wise is essentially to practice Kabalahism, you know what the Elite of "your people" do which is actually that Babylonian Ancient Mystery Religion at work again...

Ahaz was told to ask for a sign.And God gave him one concerning the THREAT he was facing AT THAT TIME. Theres no room for this being a sign for thousands of years later EXCEPT when you do what is typical for your belief system in taking a verse or chapter and making it stand on its own. I posted part of the context so you could explain, using the context how a sign for Ahaz concerning the 2 kings who were making war against him, was a sign for your future god?
Again you dont seem to comprehend Messianic Prophecies, dual fulfillment, that a Prophecy can be given for a direct historical aspect and then also to be applied to the Messiah that was to come. I mean do you even believe in a Messiah that is to come?

You ask me to answer questions but seriously refuse to answer literally anything I ask of you. Where are some Messianic Prophecies so we can start seeing if Jesus fulfills them and what you consider legit Messianic Prophecies?

Here is what I am saying, a Dual Fulfillment, one that is promised and fulfilled during a time in History and then is clearly applied to the Messiah:

1 Chron 17:11 And it shall come to pass, when thy days be expired that thou must go to be with thy fathers, that I will raise up thy seed after thee, which shall be of thy sons; and I will establish his kingdom.
12 He shall build me an house, and I will stablish his throne for ever.
13 I will be his father, and he shall be my son: and I will not take my mercy away from him, as I took it from him that was before thee:
14 But I will settle him in mine house and in my kingdom for ever: and his throne shall be established for evermore.

1 Chron 22:
9 Behold, a son shall be born to thee, who shall be a man of rest; and I will give him rest from all his enemies round about: for his name shall be Solomon, and I will give peace and quietness unto Israel in his days.

10 He shall build an house for my name; and he shall be my son, and I will be his father; and I will establish the throne of his kingdom over Israel for ever.

That Prophecy was fulfilled in Solomon, but of course this is also a Prophecy about the Messiah at the same time just as this is concerning the reign of Solomon:

1 King 4:25 And Judah and Israel dwelt safely, every man under his vine and under his fig tree, from Dan even to Beersheba, all the days of Solomon.

Jer 23:5 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.
6 In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, The Lord Our Righteousness.

Micah 4:4 But they shall sit every man under his vine and under his fig tree; and none shall make them afraid: for the mouth of the Lord of hosts hath spoken it.

So as you can see (but probably wont admit) we can see that there was a Prophecy given that was fulfilled in Solomon and then applied to someone that would come in the future many years after Solomon died. The same thing is found with Isaiah 7:14, a prophecy that was fulfilled near in the time and was then intended as a Sign to Israel about the coming of the Messiah.

I can list many more examples of Dual Fulfillment of Prophecy if you would like. At this point IDK what else to tell you about Isaiah, I have thoroughly explained it for those who are willing to learn, we both know you dont want to learn nor will accept this or any answer given.
So lets move on, WHAT PROPHECIES DO YOU SAY ARE ABOUT THE MESSIAH?

I also asked about the messiah coming twice... You have that verse from the OT?
You wont be happy with anything I quote you, and ignore it like you did the fact that Abraham talked to God in the Flesh.

Can God be a man?

So again it is about understanding Prophecies, so you tell me how can the Messiah be both a Suffering Servant and a Dominating King bringing Wrath?

The Old Testament clearly paints the Messiah as both, so you explain to me how this is going to be?

As I have tried to explain to you multiple times now the Jews had in their thought 2 aspects of God, they also had believed that there was going to be 2 Messiahs, look it up, they called them Messiah ben Joseph and Messiah ben David. The fact is whether you are willing to admit it or not, the entire History of Judaism has tried to understand these clearly distinct aspects of the Messiah, there were different competing ideologies of this, but regardless it remains, there needs to be some type of congruence made with these Prophecies.

So I am going to have you interpret these Prophecies and you tell me how you make heads or tails of these completely different Prophecies about the Messiah, but you can not tell us that He will come once and then a second time to find congruence...

Bring me laws man. Not interpretations but laws...
Are you kidding me right now? So let me see you literally are rejecting the entire Bible save the 4 that speak of the Law?

Stop it, just tell me do you accept Gen 18 or not?

One. Not 2 in 1 or 3 in 1 like He obviously could have said here, but didnt....
And you act like I believe in 3 Gods, but I dont, I agree with that Law so IDK what your deal is, other than the fact that it seems you reject explicit Scripture that says that God came and visited Abraham as a man...

Thats exactly what Maccabees shows which is why you dont want to address it.
I dont address it because its not Scripture and therefore is irrelevant to our conversation. Like seriously dude, here I am quoting Scriptures outright and you are all like meh Laws, meh ignore your points, meh and then are like here look at my not Scripture that I bring to prove some point to you.

Stop it, be consistent, at least STICK TO SCRIPTURE. Or I could be overwhelmingly ignorant as you are being and say well unless I see A LAW then your idea is to be dismissed. Show me the LAW that supports your idea, otherwise it is not True...

Yea the New covenant was to be made with Israel and Judah. Not you (unless you want to do as they were to do).
Well I am part of Israel so it has been made with me, and it is offered to anyone who believes in Christ, opening the Promises to all instead of a select few due to Bloodline. It was something that your "supposed ancestors" hated about Jesus, that He told them the Kingdom was being ripped from them and given to others. They liked their little I am better than everyone else because of my race, you know all about it...

The law is NOT a covenant.
Is that right?

Ex 24:7 And he took the book of the covenant, and read in the audience of the people: and they said, All that the Lord hath said will we do, and be obedient.
8 And Moses took the blood, and sprinkled it on the people, and said, Behold the blood of the covenant, which the Lord hath made with you concerning all these words
.

So what is that Book then?

The new one wont be as EVERYONE (in Israel and Judah) will know God and will not have to teach one another. That is obviously not in effect.
Actually it is, get Born Again and watch what happens:

1 John 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
 
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In Scotland?
@elsbet
Yes. The Scots are Israelites:
http://jahtruth.net/scotdec.htm

Jeremiah brought the Stone/Throne with him when he left Jerusalem and then Egypt and they came to Ireland via Gibraltar, with Teia Tephi and The Ark of The Covenant, as well as several other treasures such as David's harp (David's harp is Ireland's national symbol).

http://jahtruth.net/tephisum.htm

The Stone was then taken to Scotland by Fergus, and then later taken to England by Edward "the Longshanks" (the one in the movie Braveheart).

"The Lia Fail Stone that Teia Tephi brought with her from Jerusalem stayed in Ireland, on the Forrad (Inauguration Mound), at Tara, for more than a thousand years and all of the Irish kings were crowned upon the Stone up to c. 500 A.D.

It was then loaned to Fergus, the brother of Muircheartach (Murdoch) king of Ireland, who had emigrated to Scotland and wanted to be crowned king of the Irish who had settled there and had become Scottish.

The Stone was not returned to Tara and stayed in Scotland, where it was called the Stone of Destiny (English for Lia Fail) and all of the Scottish kings were crowned upon it, until 1296 A.D. when Edward the first of England "Longshanks" invaded Scotland; defeated the Scots and took the Stone, from Scone Abbey near Perth, to London where all of the English kings were subsequently crowned in Westminster Abbey upon the Stone of Destiny, up to, and including, George the Sixth." (from link)

The "Isles afar off" (to the West, of Jerusalem)

Jeremiah
31:9 They shall come with weeping, and with supplications will I lead them: I will cause them to walk by the rivers of waters in a straight way, wherein they shall not stumble: for I am a father to Israel, and Ephraim [is] My firstborn.
31:10 Hear the Word of the "I AM", O ye nations, and declare [it] in the isles afar off, and say, He that scattered Israel will gather him, and keep him, as a shepherd [doth] his flock.

Teia Tephi
1:1 Tephi, born in the House of the High Ones - (Pharez - Princes of Zion,
Zion loved of God, - home of the House of the "I AM", our Lord),
Daughter (descendant) of David, shepherd in Judah, - (Tribe of the Lion)
Queen over Bethel (the Stone) and Dan, - where they be scattered abroad.
1:2 Is not the Word made sure? - We are spread forth in alien places (Jas. 1:1).
Fire that was kindled in wrath - burns to the uttermost Hell.
Cry in the night oh Judah. - Thy wise men covered their faces.
Howl for thy young lions slain, - princes led captive to Bel (Babylon).
I, only I am left, - to cry to the uttermost region, -
Of the far off isles to the West (Jer. 31:9-10), - home of the remnant of Dan (Eire),
Sown as a thistle on earth is Jacob/Israel, - the names of us legion.
 
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@elsbet
This video is about Ireland, but its related because that's where Jeremiah took Teia Tephi (king Zedekiah's daughter) the Stone & the Ark and he then died and was buried there. The Irish are the tribe of Dan (Tuatha de Danaan).


Jeremiah (the Ollamh Fodhla) became the foremost figure in Irish history, life and religion. He became the pariarch of Ireland and is the original "St. Patrick".

"Baruch, Jeremiah’s scribe (secretary) then came and told them that the coast was clear, so Jeremiah took Teia Tephi and God’s Treasures and went first to Mizpah and then to Tahpanhes (Tanis) in Egypt for safety. There they stayed in a palace that was given to Teia Tephi by pharaoh Hophra after he adopted her as his own daughter. The palace, although now in ruins at Tel Defneh, is still known today as "Quasr Bint el Jehudi" which means "Palace of the Daughter of Judah", just as she prophesied in her book that it would be."
 
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How can David be King if David is dead?
Not the point. The point was that the end times in the OT are completely different than your views of the end times. Ezekiel wrote that God would be over David who would be over Israel in their own land with their own sanctuary. Later, Ezekiel mentions this sanctuary in detail with sacrifices being offered. Those are the end times as far as the OT is concerned.

And I went off on my tangents because you continually try to force me into a box instead of listening to what my beliefs actually are. So I laid out my beliefs so you could start from there next time you run in saying the things you were that I never said. The tangents that dont deal with the flow of the convo will be ignored by me just as you tried to turn this into another tangent instead of addressing the point..

Look man, you took what I said cut it off and started down a completely different path, what I said was the idea that you a Black man is an Israelitie is as stupid as me a White man saying I am the real descendant of an African Country like Zimbabwe. It is a stupid as saying real Africans are White and Black people hijacked my Culture and Ancestors Identity. Saying that is retarded period, same as you saying you are a Hebrew by Ethnicity.

Also this ignorant idea that I dont want to talk about it because I "could be close genealogically" is showing that you truly can not grasp anything I write. I dont know how hard it is for you to grasp, but I do NOT care in the least about ANYONES Racial make up. It doesnt matter to me, AT ALL. I have shown you the Truth, that Racial Identity doesnt matter in the least, all that matters is, are you in Christ or not. If you are in Christ then you are part of Israel, you are the Seed of Abraham, you have all the Promises given to him ect ect ect. If you are NOT in Christ, like you at the moment, then regardless of your Racial Make Up, it being Black, White, Orange, Yellow or Purple, whether you are legit a descendant of Abraham, or if you are a descendant of Muhammad, a descendant of Buddha, or a descendant of Nero or King James or whoever else, you do NOT get any of the things Promised to Abraham, PERIOD.


Finally you are speaking to someone who understands 100% the idea of the False Jews and the Ashkenzi Jews ect. Pick up a Bible, Jesus tells you all about it:

Rev 3:9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.

I dont really believe that the people who claim they are Jews in Israel today are actual Jews, but MORE IMPORTANTLY is the fact that they are NOT Spiritually Jews, and that is ALL that matters. They are Anti-Christs, they hate Jesus, their entire Religion is to subvert their and your Savior. If anything you OUGHT to be in agreement with them because they hate Jesus just like you do, and they hate His Followers just like you do, and they subverted Christianity (via the RCC) to murder people in Christs name to cause His name to be blasphemed by people JUST LIKE YOU. But I dont expect you to accept or agree with this because its much more fitting for you to think you are Racially Justified by God and your People were the ones who were scattered among the Nations, instead of accepting the Truth that Jews, the REAL Jews aka the Pharisees, have subverted Christianity, created a Religious Institution in His name to specifically blaspheme Him and lead people away from Him and towards the Religion they actually practiced which is boiled down Satanism...
The scriptures dealt with was SEED. Thats why it wasnt "race of Jacob" but "seed" of Jacob. Its exactly why Joseph/Moses could be mistaken for Egyptians. Even the elite know that which is why I brought the LAWS they passed differentiating the black moors that helped them get to where they wanted, from the negros they enslaved and put in iron yokes as Deuteronomy 28 says would happen. You said I had fake history but wont specify what exactly is fake and how its fake. You say "its retarded" but wont specify why the specific things Im saying are "retarded". As this kingdom continually goes down the drain, more truths will be revealed. Even your guy said the first shall be last and the last shall be first. Who do you think has been treated as last historically in the country you live in?

And the OT doesnt say that God will gather real and pretend Israelites to His land to put freemason symbols and have gay parades. It says God will gather Israelites and those that follow their lead in regards to obeying the commandments to their land where they will obey these laws and decrees. It says that God will gather them when they repent and obey His laws/commandments. It says that before they enter their land they will meet with Him face to face in the wilderness. Things that havent happened yet...

First and foremost that is NOT the peoples first introduction to Him
"Christ" was new to the people dum diversas was created for.

So lets see if you can answer this question
You cant stump me with your belief system. Been there done that. God gave His reasonings for Egypt and the Canaanites.

Exodus 9
16 But I have raised you up(Pharaoh) for this very purpose, that I might show you my power and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.

Deuteronomy 9:5
It is not because of your righteousness or your integrity that you are going in to take possession of their land; but on account of the wickedness of these nations, the LORD your God will drive them out before you, to accomplish what he swore to your fathers, to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

God wasnt sending them there to save them spiritually. It was a punishment and/or to prove His might before the world. Now what does YOUR god have to say about black people going thru slavery? Or the Indigenous Americans having their land stolen from them? Whats your gods reasoning as to why these things happened and what will he do/did he do to recompense the wrongdoing against them?

Again you dont seem to comprehend Messianic Prophecies, dual fulfillment,
Show me how you know its "dual fulfillment" based on reading the verse. That means you read the verse and know if its dual fulfillment or not.

You wont be happy with anything I quote you, and ignore it like you did the fact that Abraham talked to God in the Flesh.

Can God be a man?

So again it is about understanding Prophecies, so you tell me how can the Messiah be both a Suffering Servant and a Dominating King bringing Wrath?

The Old Testament clearly paints the Messiah as both, so you explain to me how this is going to be?

As I have tried to explain to you multiple times now the Jews had in their thought 2 aspects of God, they also had believed that there was going to be 2 Messiahs, look it up, they called them Messiah ben Joseph and Messiah ben David. The fact is whether you are willing to admit it or not, the entire History of Judaism has tried to understand these clearly distinct aspects of the Messiah, there were different competing ideologies of this, but regardless it remains, there needs to be some type of congruence made with these Prophecies.

So I am going to have you interpret these Prophecies and you tell me how you make heads or tails of these completely different Prophecies about the Messiah, but you can not tell us that He will come once and then a second time to find congruence...
Can you show where we get the idea that the Messiah is to come twice?

Regarding your idea of the messiah in general, no, I dont believe in man saving me. I dont believe in a man coming thats actually God that I need to worship. So God can be a burning bush just as He can be a man. But the law He gave us says that we are not to worship Him as He has or is capable of appearing as. So just because He can come as a man, doesnt mean we worship Him as He came. Thats OT wise. NT wise? Anything goes....

Are you kidding me right now? So let me see you literally are rejecting the entire Bible save the 4 that speak of the Law?



And you act like I believe in 3 Gods, but I dont, I agree with that Law so IDK what your deal is, other than the fact that it seems you reject explicit Scripture that says that God came and visited Abraham as a man...
I dont care to argue your interpretations of straightforward verses. Just in this thread another guy tried to argue that God telling the Israelites to walk 2000 cubits behind the ark of the covenant was an allegory for the Jews having to wait 2000 years before believing in his god. Theres no arguing against that. But the laws are straightforward. No is no. One is one. And instead of saying 3-in-1, He said One. So Im fine with leaving it at that. I dont have to interpret select verses to make things fit when it isnt there in the law..
I dont address it because its not Scripture and therefore is irrelevant to our conversation. Like seriously dude, here I am quoting Scriptures outright and you are all like meh Laws, meh ignore your points, meh and then are like here look at my not Scripture that I bring to prove some point to you.

Stop it, be consistent, at least STICK TO SCRIPTURE. Or I could be overwhelmingly ignorant as you are being and say well unless I see A LAW then your idea is to be dismissed. Show me the LAW that supports your idea, otherwise it is not True...
But it was in the 1611 KJV? And the Lutheran bible? What is scripture anyways? What Gentiles decided?

The point is that it shows the mentality of Gentiles to NOT obey the law and try to get Israel to NOT obey. Its no different today with the variety of different religions there are..
Well I am part of Israel
Heres what the OT says about that:

Isaiah 56
“Also the sons of the foreigner
Who join themselves to the Lord, to serve Him,
And to love the name of the Lord, to be His servants—
Everyone who keeps from defiling the Sabbath,
And holds fast My covenant—

Those are the things you have to do, according to the OT, to be part of Israel.

Is that right?

Ex 24:7 And he took the book of the covenant, and read in the audience of the people: and they said, All that the Lord hath said will we do, and be obedient.
8 And Moses took the blood, and sprinkled it on the people, and said, Behold the blood of the covenant, which the Lord hath made with you concerning all these words
.

So what is that Book then?
Deuteronomy 29:1
These are the words (Deuteronomy 28- blessing for obedience, curses for disobedience) of the covenant, which the Lord commanded Moses to make with the children of Israel in the land of Moab, beside the covenant which he made with them in Horeb.

Deuteronomy 28 is the covenant which was based on the law. If they obeyed the law, they'd be blessed according to the covenant (Deuteronomy 28:1-15). If they disobeyed the law, they'd be cursed according to the covenant (Deuteronomy 28:-16-end).

Actually it is
Nope. Jeremiah 31 says Israel and Judah and in the OT that doesnt mean "spiritual" descendants but physical. But when you can read the NT say spiritual descendants exist that gives you the permission to go anywhere in the OT Israel/Judah is mentioned and input yourself. I get it and have gotten it for a long time now..
 
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Claire, are you capable of not sinning for five minutes? Do you think you could extend this to an hour? If an hour is possible why not a complete day? This is a very sad commentary of the state of Christianity in America if one believes they are not capable of going even a day without sinning.

I get it that, the distractions and cares of the world can cause us all to loose focus and we all are put in situations where we sometimes fail to completely trust God and yes therefore sin. But everyday? Are you telling me that even on a day when you go to church and fellowship with other believers and seek God and spend time in his presence and then maybe spend the rest of the day with your family, that even on that day you end up sinning? I was under the impression that your complete household, including your children were "saved". Are you telling me that a day with your spiritual family and your natural "saved" family still presents temptions that your are not able to resist?

Reminds me of what your beloved Apostle said in 2 Tim 3:5.
Yes, everyone under my roof is saved, because we all BELIEVE in the finished work of Jesus Christ, who paid our sins with His own blood——it has NOTHING to do with our daily walk as Christians or our record of sins.

You keep trying to intertwine two separate things that do not mix.

You think you can earn your salvation through YOUR OWN good works, but the Bible never says that. It is your own misunderstanding of Scripture that has led you into error & you are deceived, but what’s worse is that you are leading others into deception through your lack of belief in the Word of God.

2 Timothy 3 actually does describes you well, especially verse 7:

“Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.“
 

Todd

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Yes, everyone under my roof is saved, because we all BELIEVE in the finished work of Jesus Christ, who paid our sins with His own blood——it has NOTHING to do with our daily walk as Christians or our record of sins.

You keep trying to intertwine two separate things that do not mix.

You think you can earn your salvation through YOUR OWN good works, but the Bible never says that. It is your own misunderstanding of Scripture that has led you into error & you are deceived, but what’s worse is that you are leading others into deception through your lack of belief in the Word of God.

2 Timothy 3 actually does describes you well, especially verse 7:

“Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.“
Faith and works do not mix? LOL.

I guess Paul was talking about James then, eh?
 
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TokiEl

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Yes, everyone under my roof is saved, because we all BELIEVE in the finished work of Jesus Christ, who paid our sins with His own blood——it has NOTHING to do with our daily walk as Christians or our record of sins.
The only reason God respects your repentance is because of the spilt Blood of the Lamb slain from before the foundation of the world.

So if you sin and don't repent... God do not forgive you !

If you don't ask for forgiveness of sins... God will respect your free will... and not forgive your sins.

See how this works ?
 
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Faith and works do not mix? LOL.

I guess Paul was talking about James then, eh?
Faith & works do NOT mix when it comes to our salvation.

Salvation has nothing to do with works because good works do not erase sins. How many sins does it take to condemn one to Hell? Just ONE.


So you can keep glorifying yourself by pretending you don’t sin, but the fact remains that you ARE a sinner, and until you understand that salvation is ONLY offered by grace through FAITH ALONE in Jesus Christ, you will never humble yourself enough to believe on Christ to be saved.

It is only when you realize you have NOTHING to offer God worth salvaging that you will truly come to realize that you need a Saviour.

As it stands, you are still trying to “prove” to God that you somehow deserve to be saved by your own merit, but you do NOT.
 

TokiEl

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Faith & works do NOT mix when it comes to our salvation.

Salvation has nothing to do with works because good works do not erase sins. How many sins does it take to condemn one to Hell? Just ONE.


So you can keep glorifying yourself by pretending you don’t sin, but the fact remains that you ARE a sinner, and until you understand that salvation is ONLY offered by grace through FAITH ALONE in Jesus Christ, you will never humble yourself enough to believe on Christ to be saved.

It is only when you realize you have NOTHING to offer God worth salvaging that you will truly come to realize that you need a Saviour.

As it stands, you are still trying to “prove” to God that you somehow deserve to be saved by your own merit, but you do NOT.
You have bought hook line and sinker the man made doctrine of Martin Luther.
 

TokiEl

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Repent and be baptised in the Name of Jesus Christ and receive the gift of the Holy spirit who will teach you truths and convict you of sins.
 

Todd

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Faith & works do NOT mix when it comes to our salvation.

Salvation has nothing to do with works because good works do not erase sins. How many sins does it take to condemn one to Hell? Just ONE.


So you can keep glorifying yourself by pretending you don’t sin, but the fact remains that you ARE a sinner, and until you understand that salvation is ONLY offered by grace through FAITH ALONE in Jesus Christ, you will never humble yourself enough to believe on Christ to be saved.

It is only when you realize you have NOTHING to offer God worth salvaging that you will truly come to realize that you need a Saviour.

As it stands, you are still trying to “prove” to God that you somehow deserve to be saved by your own merit, but you do NOT.
Wow, your reading comprehension is horrendous. What you posted here does not reflect my beliefs at all.
I never claimed I do not sin. What I am claiming is that as I follow God's perfect guidance and instruction, it exposes the issues in my heart. When the issues in my heart are exposed it allows me to take those issues to God and let him minister and bring healing to my heart. As each issue of my heart is dealt with, I am able to walk in a new level of righteousness. At least until the next issue of my heart is exposed and then the process begins again of God dealing with those issues and bringing deliverance and healing.

You are correct...in my own ability I am not able to keep God's standards. But by learning his standards and attempting to keep them, that is how the issues of my heart that God wants to deal with are exposed. I can't seek God for deliverance and healing if I don't know what the issues of my heart are. It's not the outward physical observation of the law that frees us from sin. The failed attempt to follow the spirit of the law, is what opens our eyes and exposes the real issues of our heart. That is what Jesus was explaining when he said if you have hatred in your heart for your brother, than you have broken the command "thou shall not murder" even if you never physically laid a hand on your brother. Same with looking upon a woman with lust in your heart. It's the same as physically commiting adultery.

Again until you can see salvation as more than just about going to heaven or hell, and see that biblically salvation is the deliverance from the power of sin, then you will have a hard time understanding what I am saying.

Faith and words will always go hand in hand. No one is ever delivered from the power of sin, without engaging in works or observing the guidance and instruction of God.
 
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You have bought hook line and sinker the man made doctrine of Martin Luther.
No, that is what the Bible says:

“Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.”......Galatians 2:15 KJB
 

floss

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Faith & works do NOT mix when it comes to our salvation.

Salvation has nothing to do with works because good works do not erase sins. How many sins does it take to condemn one to Hell? Just ONE.


So you can keep glorifying yourself by pretending you don’t sin, but the fact remains that you ARE a sinner, and until you understand that salvation is ONLY offered by grace through FAITH ALONE in Jesus Christ, you will never humble yourself enough to believe on Christ to be saved.

It is only when you realize you have NOTHING to offer God worth salvaging that you will truly come to realize that you need a Saviour.

As it stands, you are still trying to “prove” to God that you somehow deserve to be saved by your own merit, but you do NOT.
Remember Todd’s salvation is different than God’s.

The Salvation of TODD is a process of overcoming sins while he still breath, and everybody go to heaven, even false prophet and Jesus hater.
 

TokiEl

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No, that is what the Bible says:

“Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.”......Galatians 2:15 KJB
Yes but you must also walk the Christian walk.

There are the talkers and there are the walkers.
 
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