Sex work should be decriminalized

Aero

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Virginie Despentes, a french author has an interesting perpective on it:
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Well, she's not wrong about marriage being a market. Just take a look at divorce cases and child custody battles. I have a friend who constantly tells me horror stories where people lose their houses and property. That's right, you get married and you risk losing all your stuff to pay some bloodsucking lawyers who want the cases to go on and on.

I'm sure life is different in France, but in America, the average married man doesn't seem that comfortable. So women aren't selling themselves for a man's comfort, they are selling themselves for the illusion of stability. People find out a person is married and they automatically think they must have their shit together.

Comfortable people wouldn't have such high rates of divorce and domestic violence.
 






morita

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Well, women weren't allowed to work for a very long time so their only way of surviving was to find a husband. They then had to agree to do the housework and sexual chores in exchange for a place to live and food on the table, meaning basically assuming the roles of prostitutes AND housemaids.
Not to mention, in many countries arranged marriages still happen -be it for monetary or social reasons.
 






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TempestOfTempo

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Well, women weren't allowed to work for a very long time so their only way of surviving was to find a husband. They then had to agree to do the housework and sexual chores in exchange for a place to live and food on the table, meaning basically assuming the roles of prostitutes AND housemaids.
Not to mention, in many countries arranged marriages still happen -be it for monetary or social reasons.
"Well, women weren't allowed to work for a very long time"..... thats correct regarding certain segments of Western society. Your statement does not hold true for the majority of the world however......
 






Aero

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Well, women weren't allowed to work for a very long time so their only way of surviving was to find a husband. They then had to agree to do the housework and sexual chores in exchange for a place to live and food on the table, meaning basically assuming the roles of prostitutes AND housemaids.
Not to mention, in many countries arranged marriages still happen -be it for monetary or social reasons.
I read today that 47% of the American workforce is now female. And many people don't seem to want to address the reality there. The numbers come in part from liberation and part of economic necessity. So the same things that also drive people to prostitution.

You may have noticed I'm not a particular fan of capitalism. I'm for the *free market*, not the crony capitalist systems we live under. We need to deal with how every market is so controlled before we can really move forward on this topic.

I brought up pimps before, and I get that it wasn't pretty. But how else can one describe the controlling nature crony capitalists?
 






morita

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So because some wack-a-doo Western European Caucasian woman makes these contentions, they must be true?
No, but there are different ways to look at the issue and she puts things into perspective. What I find ironic is that ppl call her crazy without giving any real counter-argument to her statement.
 






TempestOfTempo

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No, but there are different ways to look at the issue and she puts things into perspective. What I find ironic is that ppl call her crazy without giving any real counter-argument to her statement.
I should have chosen my words better. I am not familiar enough with her or her works to call her crazy...... but what I see of her so far dont make much sense.......
 






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No, but there are different ways to look at the issue and she puts things into perspective. What I find ironic is that ppl call her crazy without giving any real counter-argument to her statement.
The counter-arguments are present in this thread, but they only speak sense to those who believe in objective morality.

You said this: "I honestly don't think our society can have a conversation about sex work without unpacking the sexist biases", then you quote the most sexist piece of literature (Despentes') as an interesting perspective. To her, marriage is "employment" for women. Sex between spouses is a chore and mothers and housewives are basically no different than prostitutes in a society where prostitution is legalized and free of stigma.

Some things to infer from what she said:

1. Marriage, the institution that provides women the most protection against sexual predators, becomes completely obsolete.
2. Men allegedly don't marry women out of love. They basically see their wives as subjects having agreed to engage in a maid-wench relationship for a bargain price. Men don't love, they exploit. (sexist part nr. 1)
3. Marriage exists so that women can ensure men's comfort, as if men's investments in marriage is not to ensure women's comfort, while that is in effect what a man's duty is and the main reason why women seek a husband. Men care for their own comfort, not their wife's, since they're incapable of loving them. (sexist part nr. 2)
4. She advocates mass divorce as a catalyst to break down society. Marriage supposedly is the institution that safeguards the social order of the powers-that-be because marriage inherently damages the reputation of prostitution. She would rather have women abandon the idea to engage in monogamy based on the natural and moral order of love and reproduction, and engage in sexual liberation as long as it is socially and legally endorsed and subject to the forces of money. This she calls dignity, when she clearly wants women to be sexual objects.

This is what I mean with ideology being the product of an individual's actions. Despentes lives like a hedonist, surrenders herself to her lusts and is slave to the constant gratifications of her basic impulses. She's been a voluntary prostitute. She's an alcoholic. She's a drug addict. She promotes pornographic accessibility in the public sphere.

She makes the perfect proxy warrior of the oligarchs, even though she presents herself as being in opposition. She's in rebellion against the natural order, the social order, the sexual order, the moral order, and it is manifest in her own identities as a lesbian, an atheist, a feminist and an anarchist. She's an agent of chaos, and one can discern nothing less from but a few phrases of her opinion on marriage and prostitution.
 






Lisa

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So are these rates of actual married people or just couples who are "together"? The last stat seems to have no bearing on that either way and honestly, what you just posted is all the more reason for the sex trade to be abolished imo.
Either way aren’t men protectors?
 






Lisa

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Why are you staking my posts, begging for conflict and confrontation?
I’m not...I had a valid question. You questioned if Morita’s chart was about married men only or those in a relationship and I wondered why that mattered when men are supposed to be protectors. Wouldn’t a boyfriend protect his girlfriend? That’s what prompted the question.

You’re the one looking for a fight..
 






TempestOfTempo

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I’m not...I had a valid question. You questioned if Morita’s chart was about married men only or those in a relationship and I wondered why that mattered when men are supposed to be protectors. Wouldn’t a boyfriend protect his girlfriend? That’s what prompted the question.

You’re the one looking for a fight..
I posted a direct question to another poster. Why would I attempt to answer your jargon-addled word salad before letting that person have a chance to respond to my question for them? Either way, this thread is too important to be derailed by the likes of you and your cohorts so allow me to disengage with you here Lisa.......
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Lisa

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I posted a direct question to another poster. Why would I attempt to answer your jargon-addled word salad before letting that person have a chance to respond to my question for them? Either way, this thread is too important to be derailed by the likes of you and your cohorts so allow me to disengage with you here Lisa.......
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You know I have a point, which is why you can’t answer me...anyway, back to your cartoons I see.
 






morita

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Either way aren’t men protectors?
Exactly.
So are these rates of actual married people or just couples who are "together"? The last stat seems to have no bearing on that either way and honestly, what you just posted is all the more reason for the sex trade to be abolished imo.
I posted the statistics of sexual assault because another poster stated: "Marriage, the institution that provides women the most protection against sexual predators". And as it was previously stated men are supposed to be the protectors so why is 1 out of 4 women experiencing domestic violence from her man and 1 in 3 women is murdered by her man?
 






TempestOfTempo

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Exactly.

I posted the statistics of sexual assault because another poster stated: "Marriage, the institution that provides women the most protection against sexual predators". And as it was previously stated men are supposed to be the protectors so why is 1 out of 4 women experiencing domestic violence from her man and 1 in 3 women is murdered by her man?
Ah, I see your point. Well you wont get any arguments out of me that sexual violence isnt at epidemic rates or that it shouldn't be confronted head-on.
 






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Exactly.

I posted the statistics of sexual assault because another poster stated: "Marriage, the institution that provides women the most protection against sexual predators". And as it was previously stated men are supposed to be the protectors so why is 1 out of 4 women experiencing domestic violence from her man and 1 in 3 women is murdered by her man?
Why don't you address direct questions and arguments for a change? Where do you get your stats from? Is it about married couples or just people in relationships? Are the aggressors men? Tempest asked a legitimate question. And Lisa is right too, men are the protectors that shield women from harm of other men.

Regardless, women are as likely if not more likely to initiate domestic violence than men. The highest rates of domestic violence is among lesbians, the lowest among gays.
 






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