Secular Morality

[Kung Fu]

The discussion of morals has always interested me especially in a secular society where the people who rule us operate through the lenses of secularism. What I find odd is that secular governments and secularists in general enact laws and try to educate others on what they believe to be "good" and or "bad" yet their reasoning rests on the premise that humans and this world operates through "naturalism".

These two viewpoints heavily oppose one another but yet people who rely on God and their scriptures are seen as as backwards and ironically immoral and evil.

I want to know the thoughts of others, both religious and secularists, in regards to morality and where it fits in their worldview.

 

[Helioform]

I am for 7 of the 10 commandments basically. The first 3 I would replace with the God and the holy day(s) of the person's choice which would prevent society from becoming a theocracy (no freedom of religion). Also I would be careful about the 7 deadly sins, which in my mind lead to corruption, disease and destruction. The fact that there are 7 of them to me correlates well with the 7 chackras of the human body.

Civilization was built originally on those commandments and now they are being transgressed routinely by a bunch of people. No wonder this world is collapsing.
Much of morality is based on religious principles because religion was a form of hygiene back at the beginning of human civilization. Spiritually all religions share similar morality.

 

[Kung Fu]

While right wing libertarians are wrong in their application of it, morality to me is basically the Non Aggression Principle.

Things like murder, assault and r*pe are clearly wrong, things that have no victims, or only hurt those engaging in it are none of my business.

The opposite of secular is theocracy by the way, which I find abhorrent.

Do you believe in evolution (naturalism)?

I find secularism abhorrent as it doesn't make any kind of coherent sense.

 

[Kung Fu]

Civilization was built originally on those commandments and now they are being transgressed routinely by a bunch of people. No wonder this world is collapsing.
Much of morality is based on religious principles because religion was a form of hygiene back at the beginning of human civilization. Spiritually all religions share similar morality.

Almost everything we see as "good" and or "bad" today stems from religious morality and it is this morality that has made the lives of people safer and more just. This is why I find it ironic when secularists tell me that they don't need God to tell them what's right or wrong when everything they believe about good and evil comes from the society they grew up in which ultimately stems from either Judaism, Christianity to a degree and depending on the Christian, and Islam.

Do you believe in One God Helioform?

 

[Helioform]

Almost everything we see as "good" and or "bad" today stems from religious morality and it is this morality that has made the lives of people safer and more just. This is why I find it ironic when secularists tell me that they don't need God to tell them what's right or wrong when everything they believe about good and evil comes from the society they grew up in which ultimately stems from either Judaism, Christianity to a degree and depending on the Christian, and Islam.

Yes. Things started to go downhill for North America after the 60s I would say, which started with the "killing of the king" ritual murder of JFK. The US and Canada were pretty prosperous and happy during the 60s, except for minorities living there though. They had strong religious convictions and the prosperity came in major part because of that I think.

Do you believe in One God Helioform?

Yes one creator God. With demi-Gods or angels in between us and this God who created the universe(s).

 

[Etagloc]

Kung Fu, how can your title be something that doesn't exist?

There is no such thing as "secular morality". If there is no God, morality does not exist.

 

[diplomaticdrew]

ALL SIN IS EQUAL. THERE IS NO SIN THAT IS NOT COMMON TO MAN.

People like to wrestle with this hard, cold fact, but there's no dodging it. Lying, black magicks, abortion, r*pe, murder, the indulgence of pornography, suicide, lust, adultery, animal abuse, slavery- (I could go on). It's funny because all of these share one thing in common, and that one thing levels it all out.......

But people like to wrestle with this "sin." The like to throw around the word when they haven't given it much thought. They like to compare, contrast. Justify. lol. Sin is sin. Sin is not "bad" or "wrong" to me. It's something else, and has a lot to do with free will- which was designed by God. It was put within us. Sin has a LOT more to do with choice IMO. That's where a lot of the youth get confused because nobody tells them this. Sunday school teachers and parents just say "sin is wrong," and "sin is hurt people."

But... It's not that simple. It's not just right and wrong- there's the right way- and then an entire spectrum of the ALMOST right way- all the way to just wrong. That's why it's so easy to sin- because you have to decide out of countless options.
I believe that's why secular morality will always sound something like, "It only matters if your heart is in the right place," or "As long as you're not hurting anyone," because those are really tricky statements that validates the individual. Makes them feel good about doing what ALMOST right, validating the things that are ALMOST good, instead of just doing what's right.

So- back to that one thing that levels out all sin? Control. We try to control things- but we're not God. That's where people- especially the most evil ones- go haywire. They love to control shit. Think about it- you lie because you want to control the outcome of something. Humans are always fighting for control over their circumstances- only to find themselves knee-deep in even more circumstances.

The Lord sent Jesus to save us from ourselves. TO SAVE US FROM OURSELVES....... WE ARE IN NO WAY EQUIPPED TO CONTROL ANYTHING AS FEEBLE HUMAN BEINGS. WE CAN BARELY CONTROL OURSELVES. This whole morality thing is like a distortion filter imo.

I have my own theories about human nature and our relationship with God and "sin."

edit: I do not know if I am religious. But I know I have faith in Jesus Christ who saves me.

edit: i want to bring the "robin hood debate." Stealing is wrong- it's forbidden in the 8th commandment. Robin Hood tries to exercise control by stealing from the rich and giving to the poor- following his own moral code and justifying stealing because "the poor are needy and the rich are greedy," to hell with that... robin hood could have just become a farmer and handed out fresh fruit lol. I believe in the commandments... I've broken all but one- and nothing good has come from it.

 

[Kung Fu]

Kung Fu, how can your title be something that doesn't exist?

There is no such thing as "secular morality". If there is no God, morality does not exist.

I almost called the thread "The Myth of Secular Morality" but didn't want to hurt the feelings of others lol.

 

[Douglas Summers]

I want to know the thoughts of others, both religious and secularists, in regards to morality and where it fits in their worldview.

It is said by the wisdom of the Adamic natured politician (flesh) That you can not legislate morality. And everyone who wants to live immoral agree with that belief. But as usual, Satan is a liar and a murderer and has been from the beginning. First, The whole purpose of God's law (or any law) is to condemn sin in sinful man and bring guilt to the sinner, for without Law I was free from sin (Guilt), but when law is given it condemned me.(Rom. 7:7-14). And even without law, man has a conscience and knows right from wrong (Gen. 3:1-24) (Rom. 2:14-16) (To understand, please study all the Scriptures) (Rom. 1:16-32). Men are born sinners because of the nature of Adam in who's nature we have (Rom. 5:12-21). The world view is this: Romans 1:19-32; Gal. 5:19-21. And, if you can not see this world making sin acceptable by immoral laws, you will not know when Christ is coming.

 

[Karlysymon]

Traversing the Moral Rubicon

 

[Aero]

Plenty of animals display characteristics that can only be described as morality. For example, vampire bats will save each other from starving. And this comes from evolution, and survival in social settings.

Morality has nothing to do with religion. If you want me to believe that shit, stop fighting wars.

 

[Kung Fu]

Plenty of animals display characteristics that can only be described as morality. For example, vampire bats will save each other from starving. And this comes from evolution, and survival in social settings.

Morality has nothing to do with religion. If you want me to believe that shit, stop fighting wars.

Are you saying the morality that bats may exhibit is a result of evolution?

Where do you get your morals from?

 

[Faker He-Man]

Here's something to ponder... What if the thought is exactly the same as the deed? (Hint: Obedience would not be sufficient, and instead you would be personally responsible for changing your thought patterns until you no longer desire to put yourself before others.)

 

[Hubert]

The discussion of morals has always interested me especially in a secular society where the people who rule us operate through the lenses of secularism. What I find odd is that secular governments and secularists in general enact laws and try to educate others on what they believe to be "good" and or "bad" yet their reasoning rests on the premise that humans and this world operates through "naturalism".

These two viewpoints heavily oppose one another but yet people who rely on God and their scriptures are seen as as backwards and ironically immoral and evil.

I want to know the thoughts of others, both religious and secularists, in regards to morality and where it fits in their worldview.

Your close but you are missing a key distinction. The world operates through ungoverned natural processes. But, to an extent, we do not have to. Our consciousness allows us to imagine a better way to live than what would be natural for us. My personal morality, ethics, define this "better" as a society in which happiness is maximized and coercion minimized.

 

[Kung Fu]

Your close but you are missing a key distinction. The world operates through ungoverned natural processes. But, to an extent, we do not have to. Our consciousness allows us to imagine a better way to live than what would be natural for us. My personal morality, ethics, define this "better" as a society in which happiness is maximized and coercion minimized.

Naturalism is the idea that natural forces govern our world and that everything that happens within this world can be explained naturally.