SAVED BY GRACE, NOT WORKS.

phipps

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I've been accused by some here of believing in salvation by works. I don't, and never will because that is not what the Bible teaches.

I believe that I am saved solely by grace, without any works or merits of my own. Paul wrote, “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast” (Ephesians 2:8-9).

I believe and the Bible teaches as well, that no individual is saved by keeping any of the law, whether it be acts of kindness, or sacrifice, by contributions of money, or by keeping the Sabbath strictly etc.

All who will go to heaven will be saved by grace and grace alone. But this does not mean we violate God's law and continue in sin. On the contrary, if we are delivered from disobedience, we should delight to obey Christ's precepts. A consequence of being saved is that through the merits of Jesus Christ we are brought into a right relationship with God, which includes obedience to His law. Our works demonstrate the sincerity of our faith when we accept God’s offer of salvation. "For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also." (James 2:26) Our works, our feelings, our lives show if we are connected to Christ. Please also read 1 John 1:6, 2:3-11, 3:3-22.

Works are the evidence of our beliefs. Just like smoke is evidence of fire, works are evidence of God’s grace at work in our lives. Where there is smoke there is fire, and where there is grace there are good works. Let’s take a look at three passages from the Bible.

Let’s begin with Romans 1:5, "By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name."

Seems to me here that Paul is telling the Romans that the grace they received was to lead to their obedience. Hence their works of obedience are evidence of grace at work.

Ephesians 2:8-10 says, "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them."

Sure enough the passage tells us that we are saved by grace and not by works, but still we find God creating good works in us at the scene of grace. We need more evidence.

Titus 2:11-14, "For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works."

Just as you see smoke where there has been a fire, so we again see good works where there is grace. Just like smoke is evidence there has been a fire, likewise living soberly, righteously, godly lives zealous of good works, is evidence that grace has been here.

If we trust God we will obey Him. Our works of obedience are presented as evidence in the judgment that we trust God’s amazing grace.
 
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Todd

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Can a person live a life of sin and still be saved?
Depends what your definition of saved is?

If your definition of being saved is simply going to heaven and avoiding hell, then I guess you could answer that yes. But that seems superficial and short sighted.

If your understanding of salvation is that we are actually saved from the power of sin and not from the vengence of God, then the answer is no. Someone could be on the path towards salvation and still be caught or bound in a life of sin, but if they truly are repentant and being led by the Spirit of God they will not remain in that life of sin.
 

phipps

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Can a person live a life of sin and still be saved?
No, as @Todd has explained to you. One has to repent of their sins and stop living a life of sin. The prodigal son was lost and was found. David and Solomon repented and forsook their sins. If one continues in sin and thinks they are saved at the same time, they have not understood the Word of God. Their works are not evidence of God's grace. As I told you I posted a lot on this especially in the osas forum. I think you know the answer to this question but you can't accept it because its against what you've been taught. The Bible is clear on this subject. Now please don't ask me this question again.

Luke 15:32, "It was right that we should make merry and be glad, for your brother was dead and is alive again, and was lost and is found.’ ”
 
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phipps

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Judged by our works.

The Bible tells us that we will be judged by our works and that's because our works show what is really in our hearts.

Romans 2:6, "who “will render to each one according to his deeds”."

1 Corinthians 3:8, "Now he who plants and he who waters are one, and each one will receive his own reward according to his own labor."

2 Corinthians 5:10, "For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad."

1 Peter 1:17, "And if you call on the Father, who without partiality judges according to each one’s work, conduct yourselves throughout the time of your stay here in fear."

Revelation 20:12, "And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books."

When our names come up in the judgment, will there be evidence that God’s grace was allowed to penetrate our hearts?

Yet a faith that works by love (Galatians 5:6) is the exact evidence that will convince the Judge that we have received His amazing grace.

The Bible is clear. We are saved by grace and not by works. The Bible is also clear that where there is grace, there are good works.

A smoking gun is evidence that it has been put into action. Good works are evidence of grace put into action. Where you find smoke you find fire. Where you find grace you find good works.

Good works, done out of love, are evidence that we have been saved by amazing grace.
 

Lisa

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David and Solomon repented and forsook their sins.
Did Solomon repent and forsook his sins? Didn’t he take up his wives gods and give them temples to their gods? I don’t recall seeing that he repented of that.
 

phipps

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Did Solomon repent and forsook his sins? Didn’t he take up his wives gods and give them temples to their gods? I don’t recall seeing that he repented of that.
Of course he repented and he turned back to the Lord at the end of his life. The book of Ecclesiates is a book about that.
 

Lisa

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Of course he repented and he turned back to the Lord at the end of his life. The book of Ecclesiates is a book about that.
Now King Solomon loved many foreign women along with the daughter of Pharaoh: Moabite, Ammonite, Edomite, Sidonian, and Hittite women, from the nations concerning which the LORD had said to the sons of Israel, “You shall not associate with them, nor shall they associate with you, for they will surely turn your heart away after their gods.” Solomon held fast to these in love. He had seven hundred wives, princesses, and three hundred concubines, and his wives turned his heart away. For when Solomon was old, his wives turned his heart away after other gods; and his heart was not wholly devoted to the LORD his God, as the heart of David his father had been. For Solomon went after Ashtoreth the goddess of the Sidonians and after Milcom the detestable idol of the Ammonites. Solomon did what was evil in the sight of the LORD, and did not follow the LORD fully, as David his father had done. Then Solomon built a high place for Chemosh the detestable idol of Moab, on the mountain which is east of Jerusalem, and for Molech the detestable idol of the sons of Ammon. Thus also he did for all his foreign wives, who burned incense and sacrificed to their gods. Now the LORD was angry with Solomon because his heart was turned away from the LORD, the God of Israel, who had appeared to him twice, and had commanded him concerning this thing, that he should not go after other gods; but he did not observe what the LORD had commanded. So the LORD said to Solomon, “Because you have done this, and you have not kept My covenant and My statutes, which I have commanded you, I will surely tear the kingdom from you, and will give it to your servant. Nevertheless I will not do it in your days for the sake of your father David, but I will tear it out of the hand of your son. However, I will not tear away all the kingdom, but I will give one tribe to your son for the sake of My servant David and for the sake of Jerusalem which I have chosen.
‭‭1 Kings‬ ‭11:1-13‬ ‭

Doesn’t sound good for Solomon to me..
 

phipps

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Now King Solomon loved many foreign women along with the daughter of Pharaoh: Moabite, Ammonite, Edomite, Sidonian, and Hittite women, from the nations concerning which the LORD had said to the sons of Israel, “You shall not associate with them, nor shall they associate with you, for they will surely turn your heart away after their gods.” Solomon held fast to these in love. He had seven hundred wives, princesses, and three hundred concubines, and his wives turned his heart away. For when Solomon was old, his wives turned his heart away after other gods; and his heart was not wholly devoted to the LORD his God, as the heart of David his father had been. For Solomon went after Ashtoreth the goddess of the Sidonians and after Milcom the detestable idol of the Ammonites. Solomon did what was evil in the sight of the LORD, and did not follow the LORD fully, as David his father had done. Then Solomon built a high place for Chemosh the detestable idol of Moab, on the mountain which is east of Jerusalem, and for Molech the detestable idol of the sons of Ammon. Thus also he did for all his foreign wives, who burned incense and sacrificed to their gods. Now the LORD was angry with Solomon because his heart was turned away from the LORD, the God of Israel, who had appeared to him twice, and had commanded him concerning this thing, that he should not go after other gods; but he did not observe what the LORD had commanded. So the LORD said to Solomon, “Because you have done this, and you have not kept My covenant and My statutes, which I have commanded you, I will surely tear the kingdom from you, and will give it to your servant. Nevertheless I will not do it in your days for the sake of your father David, but I will tear it out of the hand of your son. However, I will not tear away all the kingdom, but I will give one tribe to your son for the sake of My servant David and for the sake of Jerusalem which I have chosen.
‭‭1 Kings‬ ‭11:1-13‬ ‭

Doesn’t sound good for Solomon to me..
I didn't deny what Solomon did. But he went back to the Lord and the book of Ecclesiastes tells us so. There is more to Solomon's story than just what is written in Kings.
 
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Lisa

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I didn't deny what Solomon did? But he went back to the Lord and the book of Ecclesiastes tells us so. There is more to Solomon's story that just what is written in Kings.
Where is that at?
 

phipps

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Ok...what verse(s)?
I know what you're asking. I don't know the verses. But the whole book of Ecclesiastes is about Solomon telling us what really matters in life. He wrote that book after what he'd done in his life. The last few verses say, "Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: fear God and keep his commandments, for this is the whole duty of man. For God will bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good or evil." Ecclesiastes 12:13-14.
 
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Lisa

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I know what you're asking. I don't know the verses. But the whole book of Ecclesiastes is about Solomon telling us what really matters in life. He wrote that book after what he'd done in his life. The last few verses says, "Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: fear God and keep his commandments, for this is the whole duty of man. For God will bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good or evil." Ecclesiastes 12:13-14.
I’m not going to go wading into Ecclesiastes for your proof phipps. You said Solomon returned to God and its in Ecclesiastes..so where is it?
 

phipps

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I’m not going to go wading into Ecclesiastes for your proof phipps. You said Solomon returned to God and its in Ecclesiastes..so where is it?
The whole book is about Solomon returning back to God. So look it up yourself. Can't you do that on your own?
 

Lisa

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The whole book is about Solomon returning back to God. So look it up yourself. Can't you do that on your own?
You’re the one who brought it up and you should have to show me where, don’t ya think, if you can’t point to the verse(s) that say Solomon returned then he didn’t.
 

phipps

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You’re the one who brought it up and you should have to show me where, don’t ya think, if you can’t point to the verse(s) that say Solomon returned then he didn’t.
I won't spoon feed you. Do your own research. Google is your friend.
 

Lisa

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I won't spoon feed you. Do your own research. Google is your friend.
You brought it up..does that mean you are just guessing and don’t really know if its true or not? I don’t think its in Ecclesiastes and I won’t search for it. You are wrong and you won’t admit it.
 

phipps

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You brought it up..does that mean you are just guessing and don’t really know if its true or not? I don’t think its in Ecclesiastes and I won’t search for it. You are wrong and you won’t admit it.
I am not guessing but I am surprised that you didn't know Solomon returned to the Lord. Sometimes I forget that as Christians we don't all study the Bible the same way and that some Christians are newer to the faith than others.

So I do know what I'm saying is the truth and I am not wrong. If you search a little you will soon find out that I'm telling you the truth. I'm ending this conversation here though. I pray God will lead you to search the book of Ecclesiastes and you read and see for yourself what Solomon wrote. God bless.
 
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Lisa

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I am not guessing but I am surprised that you didn't know Solomon did not return to the Lord. Sometimes I forget that as Christian we don't all study the Bible the same way and that some Christians are newer to the faith than others.

So I do know what I'm saying is the truth and I am not wrong. If you search a little you will soon find out that I'm telling you the truth. I'm ending this conversation here though. I pray God will lead you to search the book of Ecclesiates and you see and read for yourself what Solomon wrote. God bless.
Ok..well, then I know that you just threw that one out there and hoped I believed you.
 
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