Satire: "Surviving R.Kelly and Prophet Muhammad"

mecca

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#22
Humans are made to begin procreating at a young age (puberty). In the past it was acknowledged in full honesty, by all cultures. Today in the West they pervert nature
They "pervert nature" by no longer allowing adults to have sex with children and by preventing teen pregnancy?... I've seen some messed up things on this forum but you're basically excusing p***philia here. Child marriage is wrong regardless of the time period or culture. Just because it was excused in the past, doesn't mean that it's a good thing.
 





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#23
They "pervert nature" by no longer allowing adults to have sex with children and by preventing teen pregnancy?... I've seen some messed up things on this forum but you're basically excusing p***philia here. Child marriage and p***philia is wrong regardless of the time period or culture. Just because it was excused in the past, doesn't mean that it's a good thing.
I was referring to young adults but yes, in the context of a culture 1500 years ago, there was nothing criminal in Prophet Muhammad's marriage. Let's be real here, the sodomy and pedantry of the Greco-Romans (up until the present) is what's filthy.

If anyone thinks he was laying with a 12 year old or an 80 year old is twisted in the head.
 





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#24
I don't remember in the Qur'an if whatever her age was that the Qur'an endorses child marriage but biblically it was part of the narrative rather than an endorsement of the act. I
As it is in the Quran there is an understanding of marriageable age:
4:6
"And test the orphans [in their abilities] until they reach marriageable age. Then if you perceive in them sound judgement, release their property to them. And do not consume it excessively and quickly, [anticipating] that they will grow up. And whoever, [when acting as guardian], is self-sufficient should refrain [from taking a fee]; and whoever is poor - let him take according to what is acceptable. Then when you release their property to them, bring witnesses upon them. And sufficient is Allah as Accountant."

In the ancient times puberty was used as the defining demarcation between childhood and adulthood because it is a natural indication that the body is ready for childbirth and marriage. Even today prayers and fasting are supposed to be adhered to after an individual reaches puberty.
So the definition of child was built around this natural occurrence not today's arbitrary standards that vary from country to country and over time.
It is the height of hypocrisy to condemn some peoples and not others since this was the case in all societies before this time i.e states such as Vermont, Utah, California and Texas considered marriage permissible at 10 as late as 1880.
However, I am kinda getting used to the hypocrisy of some on this site.
 





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Etagloc

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#25
Like for first sentence. :) Yes, it is a dig in the ribs for Etagloc, but I couldn't resist it.
Your distraction tactic is iffy though. (Atheists love to pull the Old Testament legal laws out of context and pretend that Christians should be following them as well.)

I debated whether the video should have gone in the Entertainment section since they are comparing R.Kelly to Muhammad. R.Kelly is being condemned for what Islam's founder condoned. Why do Muslims and politically correct Westerners accept Muhammad's excuses but not R.Kelly's?
I can assure you my ribs are fine.
 





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#26
I'm not saying that it was okay. How long did people typically live then, what was their environmental conditions? Clean water? Clean living and eating? Diseases? Etc.

They could have been above it but that's an ignorant position to take when not factoring for how they were living. Not even considering that they may have different mentalities and maturity probably wasn't similar. At 26, I don't have anything to talk about with a 14 year old let alone someone that is 21 but I live in 2019 rather than the 1400's.

I don't remember in the Qur'an if whatever her age was that the Qur'an endorses child marriage but biblically it was part of the narrative rather than an endorsement of the act. If you watch a movie about mass murder that doesn't equate to justifying, the bible doesn't justify it but just tells it as it was. They didn't the knowledge to factor for power imbalances or any of the pitfalls that may occur when an older man married younger but I do know that the Israelites would marry their sons off around 16 but I'm not remembering if they were arranged for later consummation or if it was immediate.

My whole point in commenting was that it is ignorant to judge Islam over it when historically this was occurring because it was common and not isolated to the Muslims. Rather it was easier to ignore what was occurring historically and make a bait thread to prove that Christians enjoy provoking other faiths when they fail to convert them. It's a petty and ignorant thread that ignores history and context for the sake of themselves rather than their Lord and Savior that would reproach them for their behaviour.

Again depending on the source sexual play between the two could have occurred well before 12, that is a bit extreme even for the time period.

I don’t disagree with you actually it was a different time and it’s not fair to judge them by today’s standards, however it is fine to say that a revealed religion that didn’t transcend this-child marriage is still wrong regardless of the year- might not be the absolute truth. God could have told anyone of his “prophets” at anytime that child marriage or slavery is wrong regardless of cultural practice.
 





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#27
I was referring to young adults but yes, in the context of a culture 1500 years ago, there was nothing criminal in Prophet Muhammad's marriage. Let's be real here, the sodomy and pedantry of the Greco-Romans (up until the present) is what's filthy.

If anyone thinks he was laying with a 12 year old or an 80 year old is twisted in the head.

Just because it wasn’t a criminal offense doesn’t mean it was right. Lots of things were accepted in the past that were wrong. Think slavery for example.

First “sodomy” existed and exists in other cultures and has since the beginning of time, and it refers to numerous acts. Second, it’s not inherently “filthy” in anyway. Third, pedophillia as far as we know was primarily something limited to the elite of society as a practice. It’s always wrong and still is. Here’s the thing statistically the vast majority of childhood sexual abuse is done under the cover of the precious family unit, and if that’s true today then it was certainly the case, and worse in historical periods where women had no agency. The real “filth” is sexual violence of which the ancient world was a constant nightmare for women and girls.This crosses virtually all cultures and religions.
 





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#28

These customs pre-date Islam just like they pre-date Christianity, however, check how it dealt with it so that it got phased out and is now declared a wrong practice by all scholars.
For example tying the freedom of slaves as a way to go to heaven.
Islamophobia 1 - Ep6: How Did Islam Deal with Slavery? | By Fadel Soliman
 





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#29
Again depending on the source sexual play between the two could have occurred well before 12, that is a bit extreme even for the time period.

I don’t disagree with you actually it was a different time and it’s not fair to judge them by today’s standards, however it is fine to say that a revealed religion that didn’t transcend this-child marriage is still wrong regardless of the year- might not be the absolute truth. God could have told anyone of his “prophets” at anytime that child marriage or slavery is wrong regardless of cultural practice.
Most things are obvious I think it's up to man to be the best they can.
 





mecca

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#30
God could have told anyone of his “prophets” at anytime that child marriage or slavery is wrong regardless of cultural practice.
That's a good point. There are passages in all of the Abrahamic religions that allow and excuse the inexcusable such as slavery and child marriage among other things... a just God wouldn't have allowed that in his holy books. Those things are practices of humans who attempted to justify their actions by claiming that it's allowed by God. They wrote their common cultural practices and ideas into their religions. And some of those practices and ideas were terrible.
might not be the absolute truth
Really no religion is. Everything has flaws. And there are always various interpretations with varying degrees of validity.
 





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#31
People should distinguish between the Quran and sunnah which deal with the belief system and all its relevant aspects and customs which are called urf which are cultural practices or customs.

|ʿUrf (Arabic: العرف‎) is an Arabic Islamic term referring to the custom, or 'knowledge', of a given society. To be recognized in an Islamic society, ʿurf must be compatible with the Sharia law.[1] When applied, it can lead to the deprecation or inoperability of a certain aspect of fiqh فقه (Islamic jurisprudence).[1]

ʿUrf is a source of rulings where there are not explicit primary texts of the Qur'an and Sunnah specifying the ruling. ʿUrf can also specify something generally established in the primary texts."

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urf[
 





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#32
To use David Woodas a source first of all unless you are a supporter of him is probably the worst thing you can do and I would like to ask you a question why do you use modern day ideologies and social standards of the modern era to judge something that happened at completely different time period with different laws and regulations and social constructs?
Aren't God's laws supposed to be eternal and universal regardless of ideologies or social constructs?